What is IT?

January 24, 2003

What is the Reality Ultimate?

The material religions tell us that there is a God. The Omniscient, Omnipotent It created everything, living and non-living, abstract and concrete At Will. Whether It is formless or in form, he or she, is the only dispute. No religion doubts as to It’s perennial existence and as It’s over lordship of creation, conservation and destruction.

This Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent IT created-at-will. For what, all religions are vague and ambiguous. Some say It created so that we could turn to It, worship It and ultimately reach It. All of us where happy with It, in It. But It created. May be It was feeling lonely. May be It wanted to enjoy the

joy of worship, flattery and obedience.

To most material religions It is manly and selfish as man is. It gets angry, It gets pleased and in rage It destroys and when pleased It gifts.

The Omniscient It, which created-at will, sends avtars, prophets and saviours to make man behave.

He could not do it at-will. And countless enlightened souls, prophets, avtars and saviours, came and went.

With a purpose very specific. To make humans behave according to It’s Will, to please It and get salvation!

And sometimes It selected a tribe, favoured another and hated some other.

The prophets and avtars, the countless of them, failed miserably. Humans were enslaved , tortured and traded; the Euphrates-Tigress valley were set on several times. Temples were razed to the ground, and churches built according to gospels new. Churches were set on fire and mosques came up . Wars of the Holy Cross and the Holy Crescent were fought. The blue Nile became red with human blood.

These gospels made the ethnic Hispanics, original Americans and Australians extinct; tortured, subjugated and wiped out.

And in It’s own land(?), the Bharat Varsha, god’s own men(born direct from the Brahma) exploited, tortured and subjugated the brute majority.

And all this in the name of It, the fathomless ultimate mystery. The One who creates, conserves and destroys at-will.

The great philosopher-composer of these verses seems to be right:

"There was impulse beneath, there was giving forth above.

Who really knows?

Who will here proclaim it?

Whence was it produced?

Whence is this creation?

The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.

Who then knows whence it has arisen?

Whence this creation has arisen

– perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not –

the One who looks down on it,

in the highest heaven, only It knows

or perhaps It does not know."

=anveshanam=

theist · January 24, 2003

Well that was pretty interesting. Only one thing as it is late at night where I am and sleep is upon me.

How do you reconcile the word it with the descriptions of the possesion of will? As in "IT willed". No impersonal anything can will. Once you accept the ability to will you acknowledge the attribute of individual personhood.

Hare Krsna

anveshan · January 24, 2003

In reply to Shri. Theist

========================

Whatever I wrote does not mean a disrespect to IT ; whether It is He or She or It is debated by religions. To some It is formless, to some She, and to some other He.

To me It is Consciousness Absolute. In the ultimate analysis, Consciousness Absolute, though abstract, can will.

regards

anveshanam

January 24, 2003

Abstract ?

I dunno, abstract means something that exists as a concept,not as an actual substance.

adjective /"bstrkt/ 1 of or existing in theory rather than practice; not concrete. 2 (of art etc.) not representational. verb /b"strkt/ 1 (often + from) remove. 2 summarize. noun /"bstrkt/ 1 summary. 2 abstract idea, work of art, etc.

·adjective 1academic, hypothetical, indefinite, intangible, intellectual, metaphysical, notional, philosophical, theoretical, unreal. 2non-pictorial, non-representational, symbolic. noun 1outline, précis, résumé, summary, synopsis.

God is not abstract,God is Absolute reality, complete

existence,comprising all things,at all times,in all places.

That is the exact opposite of abstract.

For example, a person may view a mountain from a great distance, it may appear as a cloud or a mirage, very difficult to make out as a substantial thing.

As the person moves closer he can see clearer, it has definition, shape, substance.

As he moves closer he can see trees,snow,buildings.

As he moves closer still he can make out streams, cars,

people.

Then he can walk directly on the mountain and experience it up close,even insects are visible.

god realization is like that,at first you may percieve

a non substantial thing, as you get closer and closer

more is revealed ,until you have direct interaction

with God.

January 24, 2003

IT = Inner Transformation. It happens automatically on the path of devotional service.

madhav · January 25, 2003

guest,

you sound like an atheist here.

when there was no one, god was.

when there was no thing, god was.

Om PurNa madah pUrNamidam

pUrNAt pUrnam udachyate

pUrNasya PurNamAdAya

pUrNamevA vasushyate

anveshan · January 27, 2003

That which is not concrete, that is abstract. That which cannot be sensed by the outer sense organs...=anveshanam

anveshan · January 27, 2003

Dear Madhav,

At the outset I told that I am an ignorant being and in fact I do not know whether I am a theist or atheist.

But you didn't suggest about the specifics.

If IT created, what was the purpose? For eg., I was happy at the dormant,(physically)increate state. In that state neither I feel pain or pleasure, love or hatred.

Secondly, if IT created at-will, IT can conserve and destroy at-will.

Thirdly the Omniscient and Omnipotent IT sent a host of avatars, prophets and 'only sons' to reform, guide, make us behave; all of them came and went. But the humans are as full of hatred and as vengeful, as he ever was. Did IT fail? Or did we fail to understand IT?

Fourthly, while it gets appeased and flattered by chanting It's name, or the remembering of It, or doing those karma that It think's suits IT will only, It sometimes gets angered and vengeful if done otherwise. Why is not IT controlling and guiding us through IT's will?

Please note that I am talking about the gods that religions

propound. Not of the Energy Ultimate or the Reality Ultimate of which(I beleive)I am part of.

Kindly note that this is not to offend any religious belief that you may hold but to know your views. So that I may get enriched.