theist Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I'm not too concerned with earthquakes that may be coming or whatever. The whole univesal show will fold it's tent one day, what to speak of some eartquakes here on earth. The reason I asked is there exists today great confucion amongst Christians on this point. I have had many Christians say to me that God is a for,less spirit that choose to become man and took the form called Jesus. While here he prayed and lived as man and unpon his ascension he again took his position as the Father God, the formless spirit. As you describe yourself as a former devotee surely you recognize this as pop impersonalist philosophy. Which is a form of atheism. The next step then is to become like and follow Christ and also merge into the formless Godness. I see a great need in the Christian church today for someone to bring the clear teaching of simultaneous oneness and difference to awareness in Christianity. That is to protect Christs' sheep from this creeping impersonalist teaching. Do you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Bible is a just a book written by human beings, not even by Jesus himself. Therefore semitic believes can't be compared with hinduism never. Hinduism has got Vedas from God and not from some prophet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hare_krishna Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 If there are Hindu devotees who would like to read the bible I would advise to read a Christian bible and not a bogus Bible written by Hindus. To people from Islam or Christian believe who want to read bhagavad gita I would advise to read Bhagavat gita translated by Hindus and not a false version by Muslims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 This is my advantage that I have read the Bhagavad-Gita and many Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavadtam(pardon spelling please) but yet The Bible surpasses these by far in relation to Reality in this life of which we all have once and for all. Not the Reality of far off places, but of the past present and futurte of THIS human race and THIS earth. When Jesus asked his disciples "Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? They said, "Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some say Elias, and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. Then Jesus asked " But who say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered "Thou art the Christ, The son of the Living God." Your Argument that the Bible is written by men and therefore unreliable can be said about your sciptures also. And the Argument That Christ is Krsna is rediculous, because if so Krsna defeats himself in Christ. Christ said by no other way can we get to God but by Him. I use to attend yout Temple in Berkeley hope they would see in me a proper pupil and future teacher of their Scriptures but non of them saw this in me and indeed they hardly talk to me. I was hungry for truth but they only gave me prasada. Now I feed on the Bread of Life which is the Word of God. And That Word of God is Jesus Christ who descended down amongst his chosen people (Israel) and was Slain by them. For our sakes God was sent to be slaughtered as a Lamb. While Krsna died by an arrow in his heal, Never to return until Christ raises the Dead for Judgement. Either you will be on his Right hand through faith or on His Left through denial of his Shed blood for you. It's your choice. It's my Choice. And Even still Our Father knows His Elect, which he sent through out all the nations; throughout all time. Not Israel only. This is my advantage that by the Grace of the Lord I know your Scriptures that you might here and now return to the truth. Though surely you are sattisfied with half-truths. But know this : Luke 22:20- And when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then Know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judea flee to the Mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. Tor these be the days of Vegence, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unt them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the Edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times be fulfilled. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall They see THE SON OF MAN COMING ON A CLOUD with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Former Devotee peace and love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 To the so-called "former devotee:" It's pretty obvious that you have either not read any of the Hindu books you claim to have read or that you have not understood them. Just my opinion, but nobody who understands the beauty of calculus will go back to using roman numerals to count. Similarly no one who has actually read the upanishads or the Gita will go back to barbaric books of judeo-christians religions. [Part of post deleted - please refrain from making derogatory remarks against other religions - admin5] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 The Lords words: Mathew 11- The deciple is not above his master, nor the servent above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he BE AS HIS MASTER, and the servent AS HIS LORD. If the called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? Fear them not therefore: for there in nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid that shall not be known. In one moment when the Jew were angered at the words of the Lord, they picked up stones to harm him and he said :John 10:32- "Many good works hace I have i shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?" The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them " Is it not written in your law, I SAID YE ARE GODS? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do , though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, the Father is in me, and I in him. Jesus refered to Psalm 82 where it is written: God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, YE are gods; and and all of you are children of the Most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise oh God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. Why don't you refer to your scripture to support your claims? Here the begining of the Gospel of John: In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of that light. That was the true light, which lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the flesh, nor ot the will of men, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. The Word is for the World not one Religion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 It is funny you ask me not to remark regarding your books and yet the Bibe is barbaric. My Apology to all of you. Yet still whatever the opinions we have Let us be liars and God be the Truth. I read with much energy those books hoping for truth and found nothing. But hear this. In the book of judges there is a moment when Israel served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the Lord, and served not him. Would you say both the Lord and all these other gods are all expansions of Krsna. Yes, yes you would. This is easier for you because you worship countless gods and goddesses which are all extensions of krsna. right. How confusing. I write to you not to play cat and mouse. But let you know that Christ is Lord of lords and Krsna in the DAY OF THE LORD will bow with us singing praises to his name. I indeed did kiss the feet of Chaitanya's statue (pardon spelling I have not thougt of him for a very long time) and was devoted to your deities bowing and chanting in the streets of Berkeley. Doing things which are abominations before the Living Lord. But Christ is returning and all depends on HE that sends him. I will write no more former devotee Jehovah is Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 You were never a devotee. Nor will you ever be a Christian. You will spout words, but your heart will remain full of darkness. You will cry "Lord, Lord" at death and Christ will say "I knew you not." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raguraman Posted July 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Hare Krishna, It is funny how you christians react irrationally by flooding with verses from bible. I think you have a problem with your faith. To say that Lord Krishna(GOD) will serve a human being(jesus) is blasphemous. You can believe what you want. What happened in Egypt or elsewhere is irrelevant here and do not hope for a moment that such a thing will happen although it strengthens your faith. False religions always have a begining and an end like your bible based religions. Vedas are eternal and teach you the truth not found in bible or other books. Infact Vedas have no author(not even GOD= Krishna). Lord Krishna(GOD) can only be known through Vedas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Surely you can argue with me but with Christ there will be no argument. Here we do not have to go back and forth with put downs. The truth will be known absolutely and I will not fret because you do not Look at the Word of God and say Yes this is a Marvellous thing. I can only hope that now as we draw near to the awesome events which are prepared for the Last days you that all of you would concider The Bible so that you will have calm in the tribulations. When you hear of a third temple of the Lord to be built in Jerulsalem, then Know that soon is the The time for the Anti-Christ to persecute and kill All who deny him. Because in that temple he will speak great words against Jehovah and his Christ and All gods. For he will claim himself to be God and will persecute Peoples of All Faiths and will build and Image that speaks and demand all to bow before it. And he will cause fire to fall from the sky and all types of wonders to decieve and lead the world from the Gospel and The Living Lord. Do not Listen to him, and if neccessary die for your faith in your Lord. For he is Satan incarnate even as Krsna is Visnu incarnate. I write these things to you in Love not for the sake of confrontation. For all that is it Written in THE BOOK shall come to pass. And unbelief will hault not a single prophecy. former devotee no offence taken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 "I use to attend yout Temple in Berkeley hope they would see in me a proper pupil and future teacher of their Scriptures but non of them saw this in me and indeed they hardly talk to me. I was hungry for truth but they only gave me prasada. " /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 I tried to engage this person in a converstaion some posts back but of course that is not what this person seeks. It doesn't fit into the 'prophet delusion'. Prophets don't converse, they PROCLAIM. I only ask that devotees not fall into this trap that maya has set to cause us to commit aparadha against Christ in some attempt to get back at person. Krsna makes no distinction like hindu vaisnava or any other of His avatars and servetors. We need to transcend ALL religious fanaticism on our way back to the Lord's lotus feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 krsna or the pure devotee preach according time, place and circumstance.... sometimes the instructions appear contraddictory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Is it not best to refer to scripture when engaging in talks about God and gods. Why say I am a finatic and have eyes yet see not. No one has answered to any of the evidence laid out above. But have only commented on the "tyranny of blind Christians" which all others faiths love to rally around. Who can read the Gospel and say it is of no strenghth? Who can Ponder the Slaughter and ressurrection of Jesus and say there is no profound importance? Answer to this evidence which is above. And tell me exactly what contradicts in the Word of God. Why attack me personally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 I posted this to you on the 24th. ------------------------ I'm not too concerned with earthquakes that may be coming or whatever. The whole univesal show will fold it's tent one day, what to speak of some eartquakes here on earth. The reason I asked is there exists today great confucion amongst Christians on this point. I have had many Christians say to me that God is a for,less spirit that choose to become man and took the form called Jesus. While here he prayed and lived as man and unpon his ascension he again took his position as the Father God, the formless spirit. As you describe yourself as a former devotee surely you recognize this as pop impersonalist philosophy. Which is a form of atheism. The next step then is to become like and follow Christ and also merge into the formless Godness. I see a great need in the Christian church today for someone to bring the clear teaching of simultaneous oneness and difference to awareness in Christianity. That is to protect Christs' sheep from this creeping impersonalist teaching. Do you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 All of you check out the evidence for yourselves and see the importance of the Bibe at a page called 101 prophecies or http://www.harpazo.net/101/list.html I have just been floored by what I've learned regarding the catholic church and other topics. Former devotee peace and Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Still no personal reply. fanatic: : marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion <they're fanatic about politics> They hear something from their favorite temple church or mosque and then with great enthusiasum taking upon oneself the mission to spread what's heard far and wide. Another approach would be to hear something, and then try to understand its meaning. When one becomes convinced of its importance then they may be inspired to spread what they heard far and wide. Based on their inner conviction. The difference between a fanatic and a one pointed devotee is very great although at first we may mistake them for the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Here is a prophecy that we all can count on. We all must face death. When the Grim Reaper comes to us individually may he find us engaged in hearing, chanting or prayer or some other devotional process. This reality applies to all across all relious boudaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Didn't you say yesterday you would say no more. That will minimize your offenses. Get it through your head: you were never a devotee. Do you take everything so cheaply, even your own words? Once a poseur, always a poseur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 "Is it not best to refer to scripture when engaging in talks about God and gods. Why say I am a finatic and have eyes yet see not. No one has answered to any of the evidence laid out above. But have only commented on the "tyranny of blind Christians" which all others faiths love to rally around. Who can read the Gospel and say it is of no strenghth? Who can Ponder the Slaughter and ressurrection of Jesus and say there is no profound importance? Answer to this evidence which is above. And tell me exactly what contradicts in the Word of God. Why attack me personally?" ---------------------- Dear guest, I do not mean to attack you personally and I humbly apologize if my writings in this thread have offended you in such a way. Also, I would like to say this, Gospel has great power and so does the ressurection of Jesus christ. Apart from that, I would also like to say that even though you do not realize it yourself (neither does one of the posters I was observing here) is that you are a great devotee of krishna. I say this because, even though you have not reached the platform of unconditionality in your conscience, you are atleast trying to find your krishna in kristianity... Devotion to your "living lord" is what hare krishnas are preaching. So, live happily and know that I do go to a church myself to find Radha and Krishna. But, I do not believe in statements like "Only jesus is the son of God" and "You are going to hell if you do not follow him" I find some statements from christian bible as ridiculous, but I do not think that the bible that is ridiculous. What I mean to say is, the bible should be read as it is by itself and interpreted by a person who is unattached to this world and a well wisher of every one. If a christian monk can rise up to such a level of conscience where he/she sees nothing but Sons/Daughters of God in every single form of life(not just human, but everything) and then interprets the bible with great knowledge on it, Then I would be proud to call my self a Christian. I would also like to say that such is not the case with christianity today. Not all hare krishnas are humble and unconditional, but atleast they try to be unattached and try to show unconditional love in this world. But thats just me and my own thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Who, the fellow who ridicules the Deities, who put his filthy mouth on Lord Caitanya's lotus feet, who is so backwards and evil that he could find no truth in the Vedas? This is a demon, period. Those who waste their time with him, will suffer. Beware the jewel on the head of the cobra. I'm sure he has much more fun ridiculing the Krishnas as the resident expert for his Christian redneck friends. Such people get what the deserve; we are fools if we share it with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raguraman Posted July 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Hare Krishna, Your anti-christ and bible are irrelevant here. New testament was written by men and so was old testament. Even the so called ressurection story is full of contradictions in the four gospels. All your books in NT were written starting from 70 AD or so by some men. So to consider it as word of any god is irrational. Bu the way I thought you will not be returning here. You yourself said so. How come you returned. Can't you keep your words ? Blind faith will not lead you anywhere but to ignorance. As for you prophecies whether it comes true or not, nothing can change the TRUTH that KRISHNA is THE GOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 from 10 Ways to Combat Online Evangelists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 lets look at a scenario of a Dog and a Sanyasi here, A dog makes an offense by barking at a sanyasi, but Ghari prabhu, would the sanyasi begin barking back at the dog? The dog's dharma is to bark to protect its lord, but sometimes the dog has no intelligence to differentiate between a friend and a thief. That does not mean, the Sanyasi is supposed to get mad at the dog's conduct. The Sanyasi needs to chastise the dog, but being of a humble nature, we give it treats to show that we are in the same team as them (because we really do love lord krishna or God. it is just not done the same way as them). We do not treat every one equally on the bodily platform, because if we begin to do that then the whole universe would be in chaos (Imagine brahma getting no respect!) ------------------------ It is the same thing here, the reason I said that the guest here is a great devotee because I wanted to disarm the poor evangelist and not give him more weapons to falsly fire at the wrong people. It was out of compassion. There are consequences for everyone's actions (that goes for dogs as well). So, In my view, part of human compassion is to take people away from an offensive state to a more friendly and humble state. Thank you, (but I thought you would understand this when I said that) but never mind... no body understands me , I am a little bit wierd for my age /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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