questioning god

[orc]

im sorry if this email offends anyone. that is not my purpose, im simply voicing some of these questions that wont leave me alone.

please dont judge me. i want to be a faithfull hindu, but recently ive started to re-examine my beliefs.

for instance, krsna said for humans to renounce the material world, but yet he says that he will forgive anyone who makes him an offer of flowers, or fruit with a true heart. so if i have a true heart, but cant make an offer am i still forgiven? why does it take an offering for forgiveness?

please i request you not to show anger in your response- im simply searching for answers.

thankyou.

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

Why is it required in every religion for a person to be righteous ? Is it not an offering to GOD. Similarly when you love Lord Krishna, you would want to give something. Actually GOD does not care what you give, but only your faith and Bhakthi with which you give. The offering by itself is symbolic.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I once heard one swamiji say, "God does not see what you give, He sees what you hold back."

 

Krishna knows what your capacity of service is. Surrender to Him with love and He will accept whatever meager offering one makes (whether with one's body, mind, words, or possessions). Making offerings to the Lord in our minds is as powerful as physically offering the items to God. Thus there is no question of not being able to make offerings of love to the Lord.

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Even if one has no money or possessions, one can make a simple offering of water to the Lord:

 

patram pushpam phalam toyam...

 

"A leaf, a flower, a fruit, or water..."

 

Who can say they are unable to offer anything to the Lord? If we truly love God, we will follow His simple instructions. Krishna has asked us to do the simplest thing: just chant his name and offer Him a flower, fruit, leaf or water. He isn't asking us to climb Mount Everest, fly to the moon, or build a bridge across the ocean. But the result we attain by this simple service is worth more than all the wealth in the world. Who's getting the bad end of the bargain. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Sudama Vipra offered some stale flat rice (aval) to the Lord, and in return the Lord blessed him with unlimited wealth. Such a simple offering, yet the Lord appreciated it so much because it was offered with unaloyed love.

[anveshan]

The reference should be symbolic. Because the Ultimate Reality who caused everything material abstract cannot and need not ask for alms. Everything belong to and is a part of that Single Whole.

 

The Rajahs and Maharajahs offered IT gold and diamonds. Do not think he is purchased by those. Your patram and thoyam and their gold and diamond is the same thing to IT.

 

IT cannot be appeased or enraged. You offer your mind, your conscience to IT in ultimate humility.

 

"Who bears ill-will to none and forgives all,

Who, emancipated from the ego sense of "I and Mine",

Is compassionate and kind,

Who reacts neither to pain nor joy,

Who is ever contented, resolute and master of self,

His mind and intellect focussed on me alone

Such a devotee is near and dear to me" (12:13-14)

 

And

" Knowledge, friend, as a sacrifice is

Greater than any material sacrifice.

For, all actions culminate at last in knowledge" (4:33)

 

So you need not offer anything material to IT, offer your mind and soul.

 

=anveshanam=

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

The reference should be symbolic.

 

 

Actually Krishna's words are quite direct and literal. A proper study of Sanskrit and the Gita should make this clear and beyond doubt.

 

Everything belongs to God (ishavasyam idam sarvam) including the soul. Yet He has given us free will and the power of dominion over certain aspects of matter. Those who use that freedom to enjoy matter independent of God become entangled in their own delusional illusions (maya). Those who utilize everything in the service of God attain their constitutional position as God's infinitesimal sparks.

 

Accoding to the Gita, we must link with God through body, mind and words. This is done by offering everything we have (physical and subtle) in the sacrifice of devotional service. In Krishna's words:

 

yat karoshi yad ashnasi

yaj juhoshi dadasi yat

yat tapasyasi kaunteya

tat kurushva mad-arpanam

 

"Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away, and whatever austerities you perform -- do that, O son of Kunti, as an offering to Me." (Gita 9.27)

 

Everything ultimately belongs to God, thus it must all be used in God's service. The common conception of the living entity is that he is the center of the universe and everything should be used for his own enjoyment. With every living entity thinking this way, there is bound to be conflict in the material world. But by putting Krishna in the center of every action, we all become harmonious.

 

 

Because the Ultimate Reality who caused everything material abstract cannot and need not ask for alms. Everything belong to and is a part of that Single Whole.

 

 

It is like a small child buying a present for his father. The child is spending the father's own money to buy the gift, yet the father is filled with happiness and joy upon receiving it. Couldn't the father have bought sweets himself? Didn't he have the money and power to do so? It is not the gift that brings the happiness, but the offering of love from the child.

[Coyote]

Definately there are a lot of questions about God.

Most have no answers. One unanswerable ? in particular observed by more than one saint, sage, prophet and mystic is, "Lord, why have you forsaken me?"

 

For the most part his will seems quite strange.

 

 

[theist]

Christ was quoting the first of this psalm by David. In this psalm one sees David's prophecy concerning Christ's crucifixtion.verses 16-18 are very clear. When Christ was on the cross the soldiers gamble for his clothing.

 

This sacrifice by Christ is a teaching to us. I see the pain of separation. We should be very clear even though Christians generally aren't, that Christ did not die on the cross.

 

Psalm 22

 

 

1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Why are you so far from saving me,

so far from the words of my groaning?

2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,

by night, and am not silent.

 

3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;

you are the praise of Israel.

4 In you our fathers put their trust;

they trusted and you delivered them.

5 They cried to you and were saved;

in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

 

6 But I am a worm and not a man,

scorned by men and despised by the people.

7 All who see me mock me;

they hurl insults, shaking their heads:

8 "He trusts in the LORD ;

let the LORD rescue him.

Let him deliver him,

since he delights in him."

 

9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;

you made me trust in you

even at my mother's breast.

10 From birth I was cast upon you;

from my mother's womb you have been my God.

11 Do not be far from me,

for trouble is near

and there is no one to help.

 

12 Many bulls surround me;

strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.

13 Roaring lions tearing their prey

open their mouths wide against me.

14 I am poured out like water,

and all my bones are out of joint.

My heart has turned to wax;

it has melted away within me.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,

and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;

you lay me in the dust of death.

16 Dogs have surrounded me;

a band of evil men has encircled me,

they have pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I can count all my bones;

people stare and gloat over me.

18 They divide my garments among them

and cast lots for my clothing.

 

19 But you, O LORD , be not far off;

O my Strength, come quickly to help me.

20 Deliver my life from the sword,

my precious life from the power of the dogs.

21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;

save [4] me from the horns of the wild oxen.

 

22 I will declare your name to my brothers;

in the congregation I will praise you.

23 You who fear the LORD , praise him!

All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!

Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!

24 For he has not despised or disdained

the suffering of the afflicted one;

he has not hidden his face from him

but has listened to his cry for help.

 

25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;

before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows.

26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;

they who seek the LORD will praise him-

may your hearts live forever!

27 All the ends of the earth

will remember and turn to the LORD ,

and all the families of the nations

will bow down before him,

28 for dominion belongs to the LORD

and he rules over the nations.

 

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;

all who go down to the dust will kneel before him-

those who cannot keep themselves alive.

30 Posterity will serve him;

future generations will be told about the Lord.

31 They will proclaim his righteousness

to a people yet unborn-

for he has done it.

 

 

 

[Coyote]

How did he (the physical body) die then?

 

[theist]

Well, how does anybody die? He did leave it and then returned. Sounds strikingly similar to the incident where Haridas Thakur gave his body up for a time.

 

Can someone help us here with an explaination of this type of samadhi?

[livingentity]

Is this like the advanced yogi who can leave his material body, travel to the higher planets etc and then return to the body? I have heard that the yogi has to safeguard the body somehow - i.e. tell a trusted associate that he is doing this otherwise there is the danger that someone will come along and think the body dead and dispose of it while the yogi is gone.

 

Not sure but it seems I remember Srila Prabhupada discussing this in one of His Srimad Bhagavatam purports. If you have the vedabase you might be able to find it there.

[Guest guest]

Why does Vedabase cost so much? It would seem logical to distribute this nectar to as many people possible.

[livingentity]

The cost is precisely why I do not own a copy but some here do.

 

However, here is a link to a much more economical alternative which is excellent!

 

The Prabhupada Archive

[Coyote]

Oh, Sorry. I thought you were speaking like the book Holy Blood Holy Grail that deals with massonic secrets, templer nights and that Christ did not really die on the cross-it was someone else. Not a bad heresy.......

 

I see where you were going with it now.

 

I am thinking of a legend of Shankara were he was trying to win a debate with a householders wife. She asked him what he could possibly know of love.

 

It really upset him as he was considered undefeatable in the debate arena. Anyway he asked he for a month to give the answer. He was a sanyasi so it was a problem for him. What to do?

 

While walking in the forest he came upon the body of a dead king. He had an idea. He left his own body in the care of his disciples and entered the kings body and walked back to the palace.

 

He slept with the queen and learned about love. She was a bit puzzled as he seemed inexperienced & enlightened but figured maybe that was because he had returned from death. She was glad to have him back as were his people so she really did not think much more about the changes in him. There was great celebration & gratitude.

The trouble was he stayed a lot longer than expected and his devotees were getting really upset. It is saids his compassion for their cries finally brought him back to his own body. He then went back to the householder's wife and won the debate as now he knew about love.

When the queen got wind of it she was really angry and upset and she deemed that all dead bodies must be burned from there on in.

Have to wonder if that was the origination of the funeral pyre-

 

Kind of like Paul Harvey says:

"And now you know the rest of the story....."

 

[theist]

thanks for that.

[Guest guest]

"krsna said for humans to renounce the material world, but yet he says that he will forgive anyone who makes him an offer of flowers, or fruit with a true heart."

 

Krishna did not say he will forgive.

He says that if you offer Him anything, even fruit, flower, leaf, or water, with love, then He accepts it lovingly.

 

The charactieristic of love is that if you love some one, you give him something with love. When something is given with love to some one he accepts it with love. So, here Krishna says that He will accept from you even trivial things if you give with love. Basically He says any one can engage in loving exchange relation with Him. He does not say, "I am God, I have everything. Whatever you have, I have given it to you, and I can take it back. Why I care for your offering? Am I poor?"

 

So, when one loves Krishna, one gives Krishna whatever best one can offer. Thus one develops loving relation with Krishna. God knows what you have and do not have. One cannot cheat or entice god. He just wants one to revive the relation with Him that already exists but one has forgotten.

 

No, he does not say, "Offer me something, and I will forgive you." And forgive for what? Vedic scriptures do not say every one is a sinner.

[Coyote]

I think its called Parakayapravesh Siddhi. An abilility to enter the body of another whether dead or alive.

 

I was thinking that perhaps it is what happened when Christ raised Lazarus but later it seemed that they were together at the same wedding or some event.

 

Once I heard a Buddhist and a Christian aguing because one siad Christ was better as he could raise the dead. They were going back and forth about problem solving how Christ resolved it and Buddha changed the perception and eased the suffering of death by raising the dead and the Buddhist guy was talking of the story of the woman and the mustard seeds-where he told her to go and get a jar of mustrad seeds from a house that had not known death. At the end of the story she was able to accept death.

 

Anyway, the Acharya leading the retreat said about the Christ raising the dead, "He only had to die again."

 

Hindu wisdom /images/graemlins/smile.gif