10,000 Years

[tattvadarshi]

Most devotees are familiar with Srila Prabhupada's assertion that his books would be the lawbooks for mankind for 10,000 years. I am attempting to document where (and when) he made this claim. I haven't been able to find it in Vedabase yet. - Maybe I'm not using the appropriate search terms. - Does anyone have documentation for this statement.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

As far as I know it is an unrecorded conversation recounted in "Srila Prabhupada Lilamrita".

[stonehearted]

It's not in VedaBase. The statement is somewhat apocryphal, being, as jndas says, unrecorded. (I'm not asserting he didn't say it.) It reported by Ramesvar, I believe, to have been made in a conversation in a car in Los Angeles.

 

I think it may just as likely have been "these books," referring to Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Sri Caitanya-caritamrita, etc. But it's hard to be sure, since we have to rely on one person's faulty memory.

[Guest guest]

Nice to see that Srila Prabhupada considered himself as a latter day Manu.

[Guest guest]

The other guest here sure likes to try to slam Srila Prabhupada at every chance, but, he did not consider himself important at all. He comments on scriptural evidence, and the 10,000 year issue is in reference to the Samkirtana movement and its prominent time here at the beginning of kali yuga.

 

As far as "unrecorded" conversation, I know that there is many cases of his teachings being unrecorder. In fact, I sat with him during such a meeting with devotees (There were about ten of us under the banyan tree at 51 coelho, were you one of us, stony?), and the conversation was not recorded for specific reasons.

 

As far as him claiming to be a "lawgiver", this is nonsence. For one, acaryas do not make laws, they give gifts. Only an extreme neophyste takes his teachings as laws, and the "restrictions" he "imposed" are stuff that we cannot live without and we are angry about it (what, no drugs? No more hamburgers? Im a man, I cant do without it!). But if one has "relationship" with Vaisnava Acarya, the love of God is what is given, and it is not even the love of God that He has for us, because all of that love has not gone away for a split second since time immemorable. The love of God given by Guru (Srila Prabhupada) is my love for God, hidden under illusion of forgetfulness. Guru takes away the smoke so we can see reality.

 

Laws? There are none. The key to bhakti that Srila Prabhupada presents specifically states that there are no hard and fast rules to engage in this yoga system.

 

A key teaching of Lord Jesus Christ according to Didymous Thomas (Nag Hamadhi) is that he severely criticized disciples who refer to him as "lawmaker", and he specifically teaches his followers to resist creation of laws. Ill get research to find the citation if one wants the reference.

 

Anyway, hare krsna, this 10K busines is a concoction of certain reformers not verified by guru-shastra, nor sadhu.

 

ys, mahaksadasa

[tattvadarshi]

The 10,000 year claim about his books is exactly what I'm trying to verify.

 

I wouldn't call Ramesvara a reformer by any stretch, but so far I've got one vote saying that the "lawbooks" quote is a fabrication.

 

Are there any Prabhupada disciples who can say whether they remember this alleged statement being quoted prior to his disappearance?

[tattvadarshi]

Prabhupada wanted to first visit his Los Angeles center, now a large, thriving community of devotees. He would see their new temple room, with its marble arches and gallery of gorgeous transcendental paintings, and observe the opulent worship of the Deities Rukmini-Dvarakadhisa. He would see the latest technological applications of Krsna consciousness at Golden Avatara recording studios and at the FATE museum, which utilized multimedia dioramas to depict the teachings of the Bhagavad-gita. He would sit in his garden and hear Krsna book and walk on Venice Beach discussing scientific theories with Dr. Svarupa Damodara. And, of course, he would increase the already swelling waves of book distribution. One day in the car he had said, "My books will be the lawbooks for human society for the next ten thousand years."

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SPL 50: The Lame Man and the Blind Man

 

 

 

 

[stonehearted]

tattvadarshi writes: so far I've got one vote saying that the "lawbooks" quote is a fabrication.

 

stone: I hope that vote wasn't mine. I can't say that it's a fabrication, but I have suggested that its apocryphal nature makes overreliance on it as some sort of immutable law (sorry) problematic. I knew Ramesvara fairly well. When he was a young brahmachari, he was hardworking,if a little over zealous. Later, his sense of his own importance changed (absolute power, you know) and he became rather full of himself. He may have heard Srila Prabhupada make the remark in question, or something like it. I also heard him say many things that were not recorded, but I know what they were. I also know the context, and I know that he said many things at different times under different circumstances that appear mutually eexclusive on the surface. He's a profound person with a very rich character. My only vote is for caution.

[stonehearted]

Mahaksha writes: As far as "unrecorded" conversation, I know that there is many cases of his teachings being unrecorder. In fact, I sat with him during such a meeting with devotees (There were about ten of us under the banyan tree at 51 coelho, were you one of us, stony?), and the conversation was not recorded for specific reasons.

 

stone: I wasn't at that meeting. I had probably already moved back to the Big Island (we did so in Jan '75) after yet aother run-in with ISKCON politicians. However, I have some experience of unrecorded conversations myself. In Dec. '73, Sudama (then Maharaja) arranged a private meeting with Srila Prabhupada for my friend Tarun Kanti (this is not the Tarun we know here), my wife, and me. We spent 1 1/2 hours or more with him. He had excused everyone (GBC sec., Sruta, everyone) and asked them to close the door behind them. He met us because we had served for several years under Goursundar Hawaii, and he wanted to talk about Goursundar's and Siddhasvarupa's leaving ISKCON.

 

However, before talking about Goursundar or Siddha, he spent considerable time talking with us about our situation. We weren't big guns, but we were his sons and daughter, and he actually cared deeply about our spiritual progress. At one point, he asked Tarun how he spent his time. Tarun explained that he had a pilot's license and was studying for an instructor's rating so he could make a living teaching flying. Srila Prabhupada was absolutely unfazed by this. He smiled and said, "That is very nice. Devotees and devotional service cannot be stereotyped. There is nothing that cannot be used in Krishna's service. The only trick is that we require guidance from the expert spiritual master how to engage everything in Krishna's service. That is the only catch."

 

You won't find this anywhere, but it's an istruction he gave to Tarun, Satyaki, and me in his room in LA, and it is a big part of how I approach Krishna consciousness. I'm also acutley aware every day that it's a remark that could easily be abused by the immature or unscrupulous. So I can't say I absolutely reject the notion that Srila Prabhupada might have said something like the 10,000-years remark, but I urge caution in using it.

 

mahak: As far as him claiming to be a "lawgiver", this is nonsence. For one, acaryas do not make laws, they give gifts. Only an extreme neophyste takes his teachings as laws, and the "restrictions" he "imposed" are stuff that we cannot live without and we are angry about it (what, no drugs? No more hamburgers? Im a man, I cant do without it!). But if one has "relationship" with Vaisnava Acarya, the love of God is what is given. . . .

 

stone: As you might guess, I'm with you here, too. Actually, the acharya and the guru give no restrictions. They give guidelines to enhance the experience of those interested in spiritual progress. Those who are serious about spiritual progress embrace those guidelines enthusiastically, and voluntarily. I never say I can't eat eggs or meat, that I can't drink, or whatever. That's because I don't think of it like that anymore. I choose not to, I prefer not to. Following the "4 regs" isn't part of my spiritual practice anymore; after 33+ years, they're second nature. My spiritual practice consists of positive activities meant for awakening my long-dormant love for Krishna, and I have great hope that some day I will begin to see the results.

 

Another not about "law books": When we first got Nectar of Devotion in the spring or summer of 1970, it was a huge deal for us. We started a special class in the afternoons before going back out on sankirtan (which in those days Srila Prabhupada also called street sankirtan--hours of congregational chanting accompanied by distribution of books and magazines). Srila Prabhupada is reported to have told us this is the law book for the Krishna conscoiuness movement. But is it about rules? Maybe, a few pages here and there in the first section. The bulk of the book is progressive revelation of the transcendental psychology of spiritual spiritual love.

 

Babhru das

[tattvadarshi]

 

 

"My books will be the lawbooks for the next 10,000 years."

 

Source: Brahmananda Dasa ACBSP: "I think this has been confirmed by Abhirama who personally heard it on a London morning walk."

 

[Guest guest]

Haribol, Babhru. Your satory brings up fond memories in hard times. Sudama was the only one who could retrieve devotees like he did, but the "run" on hawaii even overtook him. After the meeting you described, Sudama came to visit me on the big island. Me, kanva, govinda dasi, prahlad, and others were having feaSTS AT NAPAPOO BEACH after the breakup and before sudamas arrival. Many of us came back, only to have to leave again as you describe. Dya ever hear from the bee heir, tarun kanti. I had the pleasure of flying from honolulu to kapaa with him, gaurasundara, sasishekara and radhagovinda in 1973. What a great progarm we had at hanalei plantation, over 500- folks showed up for the famous electric kirtana there.

 

Sadness is in our memories, but what great joy as well.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS Hare Krsna, next time you see garuda, ask him how he likes the flights on the small planes over shark infested waters. We were on a ten seater (not flown by tk) over molokai, and the pilot was doing maNEUVERS THAT CAN ONLY BE DONE TWICE A YEAR, from canyon wall to canyon wall. I loved it, but I dont think garuda liked it very well. We went to honolulu from maui to attend a huge anti abortion rally where siddha was a keynote speaker, and Iolani palace rocked that day as well.

 

hare krsna, bro, ys, mahaksadasa

[stonehearted]

Mahak, Tarun Kanti and Sundari stayed with us for a couple of days in December. They live in Santa Cruz. Prahlad practices law in Hilo; I've seen him a couple of times--gotta get off my duf and spend some more time with the boy. I hear RG lives on the west side of Hawaii somewhere, but I haven't been able to track him down yet.

 

I remember going to Honolulu from Maui for the rally in '77. Both Siddha and Katyayani (fresh from getting 27,000 votes in her run for US congress) were keynote speakers at the state capital. And a big kirtan.

 

Not enough folks know the depth and breadth of the Krishna consciousness movement's history here in the islands before '75. We were cookin'!

 

Thanks, as always, for stirring up the good stuf, bra'.

 

Babhru

[theist]

I love hearing these stories from you guys. Keep them coming. Other sources tend to distort too much those days in Hawaii for me too listen to. You will know what I mean.

 

I was also fortunate enough to be at that scene at the state capital.Never an insider. I remember some politican spoke on how abortion was evil because we could be killing the next president of the USA or some other great potentialy gifted person.

 

Siddha spoke next and explained that wasn't the reason to oppose abortion. The real tradgedy was a soul was being denied a human form in which the opprtunity to learn to love God was the goal. The crowd spontaneously applauded that statement in appreciation. Then there was a circling of the state capital in supposed silence. We chanted Hare Krsna as we walked.

 

I may have just happened upon the gathering by Supersouls grace as I walked down King St.

[stonehearted]

we do unfortunately know what you mean.

 

And thanks so much for sharing your memory of the demonstration. We made a great effort to get there, but it seems as though you were brought there because you belonged.