Gauracandra Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 The thread about does God have a human form, seemed to get a little side tracked. So I figured, the original article was concerning Mormonism. The interesting thing about their religion is that they believe in a finite God. The Mormon God is more akin to a demigod. It is a finite person, restrained by time and space, and is not all knowledgeable. In terms of human form, the Mormon God literally has DNA. So in their philosophy God literally had sexual relations with Mary, imparted his DNA, and Christ was half-human DNA, half God's DNA. In terms of the age old question about God knowing the future and free will, their answer is God does not know the future thus man has free will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Well, at least a little more. The Mormons don't talk about God. They only talk about "our heavenly father," who is the god in charge of this universe. Each of us, if we were really good Mormons, could become a heavenly father and get his own universe. (I don't know about the women, and maybe blacks could also become heavenly fathers, too). That's actually their religion's goal. This was explained to Siddhawvarupa and me while we were out preaching door to door in Honolulu one day in 1971 or '72. We met an elderly Mormon gentleman with decades of experience in their philosophy, and over about three hours, Siddha charmed this guy into telling us all kinds of things about Mormonism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 That was something of the impression I got from them. I saw them as worshippers of Brahmaji who would also have a heavenly father that he worships and so and on back through time. And in the future we will attain that position and become heavenly fathers. Some how having an Earthly family seemed very important in this process. These two ministers became visibly distraught upon learning that I was trying to remain single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 A little while ago i gave some links to some mormon/freemason cites. To understand mormonism you need to understand it's connection to freemasonery. http://www.foxgrape.com/masonry.htm this site has good info,although it's from an christian. In freemason theology,some of which is taken from ancient egyptian theology, the osiris myth is transformed into their own interpretation, and mormons transform it even more,introducing Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Yes, each heavenly father has a heavenly father, etc. In the late '70s, two young Mormon elders came to our house in Honolulu. Just inside the front door, we had a large, very sweet picture of Sri Sri Rahda and Krishna, and that served as a bug challenge to these tow guys. They spent almost 1 1/2 hours trying to convince me to invite them back for a 45-minute presentation. I made it clear that if they came, I would be making the presentation, not they. I couldn't get them to go away. Finally, I told them that I had two big problems with their religion. First, they had no concept of a supreme person, just a string of heavenly fathers, etc. They were shocked that I knew about that. I said, but that's not all: your ultimate goal is the first thing we reject. The idea of having a universe to control is a cheesy goal, like a cheap toy made in China, compared to our goal, to know and love the Supreme Person. They finally left with their tails between their legs. I'm usually much friendlier with Mormon missionaries and Jehovah's Witnesses because I appreciate the spirit of giving behind what they do. After all, along with Turiya das and Siddhasvarupa, I started the door-to-door preaching in Hawaii in early 1971. But these guys were obnoxious because their goal was not to share but to straighten the Krishna worshiper out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 I grew up around Mormons and the Lord in my heart always instructed me to avoid them as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauracandra Posted January 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 The Mormons are good people. My view is that we can view them as demigod worshippers or forefather worshippers. If you worship the forefathers, you will go to the abode of the forefathers. Plus if they live a pious life they will be elevated to various heavenly planets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Gauracandra - that is a very good description of Mormons. Personnally, I have no problems with them. They have their strong beliefs - I have mine. One of my ex-bosses was a devout Mormon and he was nice almost to a fault - always clean, sober, polite plus had a great sense of humor. I was sorry to see him go as he was replaced with just the opposite. I inadvertantly became a project of the local mission group however. One day the missionaries knocked on my door and I let them in. We talked for a while and they gave me their literature and a Book of Mormon and I gave them some Krishna Consciousness literature. In light, of the contribution to the SLC Temple I did not see a problem. Well.................the campaign began to convert me. They came over everyday and even started calling me. It got to be too much and I had to ask to them to stop coming over. One thing that has been sort of bothering me for a while is why did they make that huge contribution to the SLC temple? I mean, it is a very very nice gesture and extremely generous etc but they are very adamant about their faith and believe it is the only true faith. I am not sure I understand what the real agenda is with the contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Maybe thats why the Lord has always told me to avoid them because I want to go to the abode of the Lord and not return to this pile of dung. I agree the Mormons are mostly people in the mode of goodness and I hope I didn't suggest otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 for those who don't know what the mormons believe, http://www.equip.org/free/DM410.htm another thing, in order for the mormon to attain the highest position he has to be initiated into succesive "priesthoods", this is taken from the freemasons, in fact their various rituals of these various priesthoods are very similar to masonic rituals in style,substance,and language. also it makes the mormon candidate for the priesthoods a slavish servant to those who would be initiating him this again is taken from the masonic model, as does 'Scientology' , where the initiate(or sucker) must perform acts of devotion to the superiors ( in scientology ,money and slavery) in order to attain the higher levels and secrets, in mormonism the incentive is sex, it used to be with polygamy,but that has been suppressed because it brought them trouble from the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Here is the summary from the website Shiva posted: <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=90%><tr><td width=100%><div align=center><table border=3 width=86% cellspacing=3 cellpadding=3 bordercolor=#808080 bordercolordark=#808080 bordercolorlight=#E8E8E8 height=329 bgcolor=#FFFFFF><tr><td width=50% align=center style="background-color: rgb(232,232,232)" height=26><font color=#400040><big>CHRISTIAN </big></font></td><td width=50% align=center style="background-color: rgb(232,232,232)" height=26><font color=#400040><big>MORMON </big></font></td></tr><tr><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=19 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>1. Personal and incorporeal </td><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=19 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>1.Personal and corporeal (embodied)</td></tr><tr><td width=50% bordercolordark=#005B99 style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=57 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>2. Creator and sustainer of contingent existence</td><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=57 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>2. Organizer of the world, but subject to the laws and principles of a beginningless universe</td></tr><tr><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=19 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>3. Omnipotent</td><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=19 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>3. Limited in power</td></tr><tr><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=19 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>4. Omniscient</td><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=19 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>4. Limited in knowledge</td></tr><tr><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=17 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>5. Omnipresent in being</td><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=17 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>5. Localized in space</td></tr><tr><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=19 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>6. Immutable and eternal </td><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=19 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>6. Mutable and not eternal (as God)</td></tr><tr><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=19 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>7. Necessary and the only God</td><td width=50% style="background-color: rgb(236,255,236)" height=19 bgcolor=#FFFFFF>7. Contingent and one of many gods</td></tr><tr><td width=50% align=center style="background-color: rgb(232,232,232)" height=26><font color=#400040><big>CONCEPT OF GOD</big></font></td><td width=50% align=center style="background-color: rgb(232,232,232)" height=26><font color=#400040><big>CONCEPT OF GOD</big></font></td></tr></table></div></td></tr></table> If this is accurate, it looks like demigod worship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 My personal experience with Mormons is that they are very pious and decent people, much more than the average population in the U.S. If you go to Salt Lake City you can feel the difference throughout the entire city - how people react, how clean the environment is, etc. A trip to their main temple is also very inspiring. They are certainly very dedicated to their mission and to their pious message; this should be respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 I have been to SLC and the difference is very obvious from other American cities. I have worked with a lot of mormons (being very close to Utah) and find them to be very honest in their dealings with others. One very interesting point - they are not allowed to gamble either. But they will work in casinos and casinos love to hire them because of their honesty, politeness and restriction of their faith on gambling. I saw a write up on this in the local paper once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 , yes and they bankrolled the "syndacite" in Las Vegas. The 'Bank of Las Vegas', mormon owned and run, was the first bank to finance the syndacite back in the 60's. Because of their backing Las Vegas was transformed into what it is today. another thing, their so called piety is based on the desire to become a God, they learn that if they act in such and such a way, they gain points toward attaining "exhaltation", or becoming a God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 another thing, their so called piety is based on the desire to become a God, they learn that if they act in such and such a way, they gain points toward attaining "exhaltation", or becoming a God. Not much different from Vedic demigod worship. We worship demigods because we desire their positions and want to attain a similar status of enjoyment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 I don't know anything about the banks or syndicate etc. I know that they own a major grocery store chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyoming_me Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 It always amazes me how much time people spend on a subject they do not believe in or want to, nor put the time in to learn the truth about it. One thing i can say, thank you for bringing it into the limelight, as i say in a chat room, even good advertising is advertising, so if anyone REALLY wants to learn about Mormons, here is the real sites and u will not have to go back to another anti-Mormon site again. Again if u do not like our beliefs/gospel, do not waste your time on it. It always amazes me how "everyone" has a "missionary" horror story of how they hounded them, poor people lol. www.mormon.or or www.lds.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Thank you for posting some positive sites to visit. I asked my ex-boss once about going on missions and he told me that it was the highlight of his young life. He had many fond memories etc. He also told me that his children were looking forward to their time. I found it very refreshing to hear that this was so enthusiastically passed on to the younger generation. So often children reject the ways of their parents. My ex-boss very gently nudged the workplace into a kind and loving place to be. It was nice to go to work everyday because of him. The next boss that came in very quickly destroyed this atmosphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Sometimes its a good thing to reject the ways of your parents. I know I don't want to end up like my father who cheated on my mother and left her for his own personal desires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 I did not make myself clear - I was speaking in the positive form which I tend to do rather than the negative. Of course, one should reject any negative or demoniac qualities even if it is your parents. Prahlada Maharaj taught us this very well. He remained a pure devotee of the Supreme Lord even though His demoniac father, Hiranyakasipu, did everything he could to try to change Him, resorting even to trying to torture and kill Prahlad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 My Dad is pretty close to Hiranyakasipu. He burned my copy of Bhagavad Gita. The worst part about it is he is a pretty nice guy he's just really ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 I think this thread has steered way off original subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauracandra Posted January 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Its good to have you here. Perhaps you can answer a question of mine. I'm wondering about the Heavenly Mother in Mormonism. In the Vaisnava faith we accept the existence of a masculine and feminine divinity. In the Mormon faith, what is known about the Heavenly Mother? Also, since God has a physical body, are there any descriptions of what God looks like physically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyoming_me Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Hello, this time i will be more friendly with my words, i was much to defensive last time, sorry about that. As to Heavenly Mother we believe God would not ask of us anything He himself would not do. He tells us to get married and to replenish his earth. And why would people want him to be all alone? I see no joy in this, i honestly hope he has a wonderful woman beside him to help him through the pain he sees in the world he created, and the mistakes people/his children make. Now as for his physical appearance, he tells us we are made in his image, thus he can look like any of us, and all of us. In all, the Mormons are a loving group of people, we try very hard to help anyone that needs help, we see love as service, when in service u are in the service of God, or love of God. We do not try to harm anyone, yes, we have some people that are very zealous about teaching/wanting u to hear about the Lord, please forgive them for this love pushes people to do strange things. /images/graemlins/wink.gif <font color="blue"> </font color> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 okely dokely, first things first.. There is not one uniform mormon theology. Brigham Youngs wife and children left him, then moved to missouri and started what is known as the reorganized church. They are much smaller then the main church, and reject the polytheism introduced into mormon theology and they pretty much have a run of the mill christian philosophy. The thing cult like and insidious about the mormon church is their insistence on your serving the church in order to attain heaven, this means you MUST tithe, 10 percent of your income, if you do not, you are excommunicated, which is very common and a large number of people are excommunicated every year. This creates a mafia like extortion scenario, a "spiritual " protection racket, you pay up or you don't go to heaven. As for the finances,a the church has profitied extremely well from syndacite partnerships, if they were a corporation they would be among the 10 largest in america, they own huge amounts of stocks in the largest blue chips, and out right own numerous business' in every concievable arena, all MUST tithe. this is all controlled by the central church in Salt Lake city, unlike the catholic church where diocese are individually run, the mormon church is run from the top down, all money goes to the top, and all control comes from the top. And in order to keep inside info, the U.S intelligence agencies are full of mormons,mostly in leaderships roles, this includes the NSA which runs project ECHELON, which monitors all electronic communication ,in the world, and information gleamed can be used for a variety of purposes, for example, insider trading on the stock market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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