Raguraman Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Hare Krishna, Is the saankhya philosophy as it exists today and tthe Saankhya that Lord Krishna mentions the same? Lord Kapila is an incarnation of Lord. I have just started reading this pilosophy. Can anyone explain this further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 There were two people who propounded the Sankhya philosophy, both named Kapila. One is Krishna's incarnation (mentioned in the Bhagavatam). The other is an imposter, Nirishvara Kapila, who propounded an atheistic version of Sankhya. Both Kapila's had the same name, taught the same school of philosophy, and even had disciples with the same names. The difference is clear in their actual teachings. Kapila the avatara teaches devotional service as the topmost process to self realization. Krishna establishes in the second chapter of the Gita that Sankhya is not devoid of or different from bhakti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raguraman Posted January 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Hare Krishna J.N.DASjee, The one which I am reading seems to be atheistic one. Atleast it seems to be unconcerned about the principle of GOD. Where is the original teachings of Saankhya that the original Lord Kapila thought. The other is an imposter, Nirishvara Kapila, who propounded an atheistic version of Sankhya. Both Kapila's had the same name, taught the same school of philosophy, and even had disciples with the same names. May I know the source of this information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Where is the original teachings of Saankhya that the original Lord Kapila thought. It is in the chapters twinty five through thirty three of Bhagvatam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anveshan Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 There might have been many Kapilas. Not two. If you could go through both the Ishwara Kapila and Nirishwara Kapila, without favour, hatred, addictions and prejudices, you will find that both reaches the same end. " Yam saivah samupasate` siva iti brahmeti vedantino Boudha Buddh iti pramana patava karte`ti naiyyayika: Ahannityadha Jaina sasanarata: karme`ti meemamsaka: so ayam vo viddhatu vaanchitaphalam trilokyanatho vibhu: " May the Lord of the Universe, the remover of evil, whom the devotees of Siva worship as 'Siva', the Vedantins as 'Brahma', the Buddhists as 'Buddha", the followers of the Nyaya philosophy, who are clever in logic, as the "Agent", those devoted to the Jaina doctrines as "arht", the rituals of the Mimamsa school as "Karma"... fulfil all our desires" These what Sanatana Dharma teaches. All streams has to reach the Ocean, or are absorbed by the Ocean. That is the glory of Sanatana Dharma. =anveshanam= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 If you could go through both the Ishwara Kapila and Nirishwara Kapila, without favour, hatred, addictions and prejudices, you will find that both reaches the same end. Actually, the two systems are completely different and incompatible. Their goals are different, and their processes to attain their goals are different. Vyasadeva condemns the atheistic Sankhya school of philosophy in the Brahma-sutras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Prabhupada on Sankhya: If one tries to nullify the conclusions of the Vedas by accepting an unauthorized scripture or so-called scripture, it will be very hard for him to come to the right conclusion about the Absolute Truth. The system for adjusting two contradictory scriptures is to refer to the Vedas, for references from the Vedas are accepted as final judgments. When we refer to a particular scripture, it must be authorized, and for this authority it must strictly follow the Vedic injunctions. If someone presents an alternative doctrine he himself has manufactured, that doctrine will prove itself useless, for any doctrine that tries to prove that Vedic evidence is meaningless immediately proves itself meaningless. The followers of the Vedas unanimously accept the authority of Manu and Parasara in the disciplic succession. Their statements, however, do not support the atheistic Kapila, because the Kapila mentioned in the Vedas is a different Kapila, the son of Kardama and Devahuti. The atheist Kapila is a descendant of the dynasty of Agni and is one of the conditioned souls. But the Kapila who is the son of Kardama Muni is accepted as an incarnation of Vasudeva. The Padma Purana gives evidence that the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vasudeva takes birth in the incarnation of Kapila and, by His expansion of theistic Sankhya philosophy, teaches all the demigods and a brahmana of the name Asuri. In the doctrine of the atheist Kapila there are many statements directly against the Vedic principles. The atheist Kapila does not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says that the living entity is himself the Supreme Lord and that no one is greater than him. His conceptions of so-called conditioned and liberated life are materialistic, and he refuses to accept the importance of immortal time. All such statements are against the principles of the Vedanta-sutra.” “If one tries to nullify the conclusions of the Vedas by accepting an unauthorized scripture or so-called scripture, it will be very hard for him to come to the right conclusion about the Absolute Truth. The system for adjusting two contradictory scriptures is to refer to the Vedas, for references from the Vedas are accepted as final judgments. When we refer to a particular scripture, it must be authorized, and for this authority it must strictly follow the Vedic injunctions. If someone presents an alternative doctrine he himself has manufactured, that doctrine will prove itself useless, for any doctrine that tries to prove that Vedic evidence is meaningless immediately proves itself meaningless. The followers of the Vedas unanimously accept the authority of Manu and Parasara in the disciplic succession. Their statements, however, do not support the atheistic Kapila, because the Kapila mentioned in the Vedas is a different Kapila, the son of Kardama and Devahuti. The atheist Kapila is a descendant of the dynasty of Agni and is one of the conditioned souls. But the Kapila who is the son of Kardama Muni is accepted as an incarnation of Vasudeva. The Padma Purana gives evidence that the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vasudeva takes birth in the incarnation of Kapila and, by His expansion of theistic Sankhya philosophy, teaches all the demigods and a brahmana of the name Asuri. In the doctrine of the atheist Kapila there are many statements directly against the Vedic principles. The atheist Kapila does not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says that the living entity is himself the Supreme Lord and that no one is greater than him. His conceptions of so-called conditioned and liberated life are materialistic, and he refuses to accept the importance of immortal time. All such statements are against the principles of the Vedanta-sutra.” If one tries to nullify the conclusions of the Vedas by accepting an unauthorized scripture or so-called scripture, it will be very hard for him to come to the right conclusion about the Absolute Truth. The system for adjusting two contradictory scriptures is to refer to the Vedas, for references from the Vedas are accepted as final judgments. When we refer to a particular scripture, it must be authorized, and for this authority it must strictly follow the Vedic injunctions. If someone presents an alternative doctrine he himself has manufactured, that doctrine will prove itself useless, for any doctrine that tries to prove that Vedic evidence is meaningless immediately proves itself meaningless. The followers of the Vedas unanimously accept the authority of Manu and Parasara in the disciplic succession. Their statements, however, do not support the atheistic Kapila, because the Kapila mentioned in the Vedas is a different Kapila, the son of Kardama and Devahuti. The atheist Kapila is a descendant of the dynasty of Agni and is one of the conditioned souls. But the Kapila who is the son of Kardama Muni is accepted as an incarnation of Vasudeva. The Padma Purana gives evidence that the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vasudeva takes birth in the incarnation of Kapila and, by His expansion of theistic Sankhya philosophy, teaches all the demigods and a brahmana of the name Asuri. In the doctrine of the atheist Kapila there are many statements directly against the Vedic principles. The atheist Kapila does not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says that the living entity is himself the Supreme Lord and that no one is greater than him. His conceptions of so-called conditioned and liberated life are materialistic, and he refuses to accept the importance of immortal time. All such statements are against the principles of the Vedanta-sutra.” “If one tries to nullify the conclusions of the Vedas by accepting an unauthorized scripture or so-called scripture, it will be very hard for him to come to the right conclusion about the Absolute Truth. The system for adjusting two contradictory scriptures is to refer to the Vedas, for references from the Vedas are accepted as final judgments. When we refer to a particular scripture, it must be authorized, and for this authority it must strictly follow the Vedic injunctions. If someone presents an alternative doctrine he himself has manufactured, that doctrine will prove itself useless, for any doctrine that tries to prove that Vedic evidence is meaningless immediately proves itself meaningless. The followers of the Vedas unanimously accept the authority of Manu and Parasara in the disciplic succession. Their statements, however, do not support the atheistic Kapila, because the Kapila mentioned in the Vedas is a different Kapila, the son of Kardama and Devahuti. The atheist Kapila is a descendant of the dynasty of Agni and is one of the conditioned souls. But the Kapila who is the son of Kardama Muni is accepted as an incarnation of Vasudeva. The Padma Purana gives evidence that the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vasudeva takes birth in the incarnation of Kapila and, by His expansion of theistic Sankhya philosophy, teaches all the demigods and a brahmana of the name Asuri. In the doctrine of the atheist Kapila there are many statements directly against the Vedic principles. The atheist Kapila does not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says that the living entity is himself the Supreme Lord and that no one is greater than him. His conceptions of so-called conditioned and liberated life are materialistic, and he refuses to accept the importance of immortal time. All such statements are against the principles of the Vedanta-sutra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Prabhupada: Kapiladeva is an incarnation of Krsna, and He gave instructions to His mother, Devahuti. We must distinguish between the two Kapilas. One Kapila is this Bhagavan Kapila, and the other Kapila is the atheist Kapila. Bhagavan Kapila is also known as Devahuti-putra Kapila. Both Kapilas expounded Sankhya philosophy, but the atheist Kapila expounded it without understanding, perception or realization of God. On the bank of the Bindu-sarovara Lake, Kapiladeva personally expounded Sankhya philosophy to His mother, Devahuti, just as Krsna personally expounded the knowledge of Bhagavad-gita to His friend Arjuna. Like Arjuna, Devahuti was aware that she was before her spiritual master, as indicated in the following verse. Indeed, Lord Brahma had informed her that her son was a powerful incarnation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 saunaka uvaca kapilas tattva-sankhyata bhagavan atma-mayaya jatah svayam ajah saksad atma-prajnaptaye nrnam Sri Saunaka said: Although He is unborn, the Supreme Personality of Godhead took birth as Kapila Muni by His internal potency. He descended to disseminate transcendental knowledge for the benefit of the whole human race. na hy asya varsmanah pumsam varimnah sarva-yoginam visrutau sruta-devasya bhuri trpyanti me ’savah Saunaka continued: There is no one who knows more than the Lord Himself. No one is more worshipable or more mature a yogi than Me. He is therefore the master of the Vedas, and to hear about Him always is the actual pleasure of the senses. Lord Kapila’s Instructions: na yujyamanaya bhaktya bhagavaty akhilatmani sadrso ’sti sivah pantha yoginam brahma-siddhaye Perfection in self-realization cannot be attained by any kind of yogi unless he engages in devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for that is the only auspicious path. prasangam ajaram pasam atmanah kavayo viduh sa eva sadhusu krto moksa-dvaram apavrtam Every learned man knows very well that attachment for the material is the greatest entanglement of the spirit soul. But that same attachment, when applied to self-realized devotees, opens the door of liberation. mayy ananyena bhavena bhaktim kurvanti ye drdham mat-krte tyakta-karmanas tyakta-svajana-bandhavah Such a sadhu engages in staunch devotional service to the Lord without deviation. For the sake of the Lord he renounces all other connections, such as family relationships and friendly acquaintances within the world. titiksavah karunikah suhrdah sarva-dehinam ajata-satravah santah sadhavah sadhu-bhusanah The symptoms of a sadhu are that he is tolerant, merciful and friendly to all living entities. He has no enemies, he is peaceful, he abides by the scriptures, and all his characteristics are sublime. mad-asrayah katha mrstah srnvanti kathayanti ca tapanti vividhas tapa naitan mad-gata-cetasah Engaged constantly in chanting and hearing about Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the sadhus do not suffer from material miseries because they are always filled with thoughts of My pastimes and activities. satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah taj josanad asv apavarga-vartmani sraddha ratir bhaktir anukramisyati bhaktya puman jata-viraga aindriyad drsta-srutan mad-racananucintaya cittasya yatto grahane yoga-yukto yatisyate rjubhir yoga-margaih In the association of pure devotees, discussion of the pastimes and activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very pleasing and satisfying to the ear and the heart. By cultivating such knowledge one gradually becomes advanced on the path of liberation, and thereafter he is freed, and his attraction becomes fixed. Then real devotion and devotional service begin. Thus consciously engaged in devotional service in the association of devotees, a person gains distaste for sense gratification, both in this world and in the next, by constantly thinking about the activities of the Lord. This process of Krsna consciousness is the easiest process of mystic power; when one is actually situated on that path of devotional service, he is able to control the mind. asevayayam prakrter gunanam jnanena vairagya-vijrmbhitena yogena mayy arpitaya ca bhaktya mam pratyag-atmanam ihavarundhe Thus by not engaging in the service of the modes of material nature but by developing Krsna consciousness, knowledge in renunciation, and by practicing yoga, in which the mind is always fixed in devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one achieves My association in this very life, for I am the Supreme Personality, the Absolute Truth. sri-bhagavan uvaca devanam guna-linganam anusravika-karmanam sattva evaika-manaso vrttih svabhaviki tu ya animitta bhagavati bhaktih siddher gariyasi Lord Kapila said: The senses are symbolic representations of the demigods, and their natural inclination is to work under the direction of the Vedic injunctions. As the senses are representatives of the demigods, so the mind is the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The mind’s natural duty is to serve. When that spirit of service is engaged in devotion to the Personality of Godhead, without any motive, that is far better than salvation. jarayaty asu ya kosam nigirnam analo yatha Bhakti, devotional service, dissolves the subtle body of the living entity without separate effort, just as fire in the stomach digests all that we eat. naikatmatam me sprhayanti kecin mat-.-sevabhirata mad-ihah ye ’nyonyato bhagavatah prasajya sabhajayante mama paurusani A pure devotee who is attached to the activities of devotional service and who always engages in the service of My lotus feet never desires to become one with Me. Such a devotee, who is unflinchingly engaged, always glorifies My pastimes and activities. atho vibhutim mama mayavinas tam aisvaryam astangam anupravrttam sriyam bhagavatim vasprhayanti bhadram parasya me te ’snuvate tu loke Thus because he is completely absorbed in meditation upon Me, the devotee does not desire even the highest benediction obtainable in the upper planetary systems, including Satyaloka. He does not desire the eight material perfections obtained from mystic yoga, nor does he desire to be elevated to the kingdom of God. Yet even without desiring them, the devotee enjoys, even in this life, all the offered benedictions. imam lokam tathaivamum atmanam ubhayayinam atmanam anu ye ceha ye rayah pasavo grhah visrjya sarvan anyams ca mam evam visvato-mukham bhajanty ananyaya bhaktya tan mrtyor atiparaye Thus the devotee who worships Me, the all-pervading Lord of the universe, with unflinching devotional service, gives up all aspirations for promotion to heavenly planets or happiness in this world with wealth, children, cows, home or anything in relationship with the body. I take him to the other side of birth and death. nanyatra mad-bhagavatah pradhana-purusesvarat atmanah sarva-bhutanam bhayam tivram nivartate The terrible fear of birth and death can never be forsaken by anyone who resorts to any shelter other than Myself, for I am the almighty Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the original source of all creation, and also the Supreme Soul of all souls. jnana-vairagya-yuktena bhakti-yogena yoginah ksemaya .-mulam me pravisanty akuto-bhayam The yogis, equipped with transcendental knowledge and renunciation and engaged in devotional service for their eternal benefit, take shelter at My lotus feet, and since I am the Lord, they are thus eligible to enter into the kingdom of Godhead without fear. etavan eva loke ’smin pumsam nihsreyasodayah tivrena bhakti-yogena mano mayy arpitam sthiram Therefore persons whose minds are fixed on the Lord engage in the intensive practice of devotional service. That is the only means to attain the final perfection of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 If you want to study the Sankhya system of Lord Kapila, download the book "Teachings of Lord Kapila" here: http://www.hare-krishna.org/books/kapila.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 saankya as found in the saankya-suutras, brahma-suutras, the Mahaabhaartha and VP is strictly atheistic. In contrast to this, the SB alone speaks about a theistic saankya and elevates Kapila to avatarhood. Sometime during 0 AD to 500 AD saankya branched off, with some brances taking on theist concepts. In all probability, one of these theistic branches inspired the author of SB to present a peculiar version saankya. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 saankya as found in the saankya-suutras, brahma-suutras...is strictly atheistic. The Sankya-sutras are authored by the atheistic Nirisvara Kapila, thus they are not theistic. The Brahma-sutras refute many schools of thought including his atheistic brand of Sankhya. saankya as found in the... VP is strictly atheistic. This isn't true at all. In contrast to this, the SB alone speaks about a theistic saankya and elevates Kapila to avatarhood. Kapila's avatarhood is mentioned in countless places. Sri Mahadevi Bhagavata, Skandha 1, Chapter 3; Bhagavata Kilippattu, First Skandha; Brahmanda Purana, Chapter 93; Valmiki Ramayana, Bala-kanda, Sargas 39 and 40; Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva, Chapter 149, etc. Vishnu Purana 3.2.54 while describing Vishnu's incarnations for the four yugas states: krite yuge param jnanam kapiladisvarupadhrik.. "In the Satya yuga Lord Vishnu appears as Kapila to deliver the supreme knowledge." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Mahaabhaartha - Saankya appears in the gita and also during a conversation between Bhiishma and yudhistira. In both instances, saankya is atheistic. Saankya suutras - This is already known. Brahma-suutras - Saankya is refuted on the grounds that it is atheistic. Vishnu puraanaa - I need some time to get hold of a copy of VP. I will reserve my comment until then. 1. All old works such as MB, SS and BS talk about atheistic saankya only. Kapila is identified as the founder of this system, and *none* of these works recognize a different Kapila who founded a different theistic saankya. Another point is although these works allude to atheistic saankya, none of them refer to Kapila as niriishvara. 2. To the best of my knowledge, Kapila doe not appear in the avatar lists of any of the above works. I do not follow your translation of the VP verse, which is partial. What in the verse equates to avatar of vishnu? Can you produce the full verse? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 2. To the best of my knowledge, Kapila doe not appear in the avatar lists of any of the above works. Then please refer the chapters cited above, and your knowledge may enhance. /images/graemlins/smile.gif They all refer to Kapila as an incarnation of Vishnu. What is the point of saying "to the best of my knowledge", when you haven't read the chapters referenced. I do not follow your translation of the VP verse, which is partial. What in the verse equates to avatar of vishnu? Can you produce the full verse? I was busy and didn't type up all the verses (I assumed interested parties could look up the verses themselves for verification). It is a group of four or five verses explaining Lord Vishnu's incarnations in every yuga. I didn't have time to type all, so I typed the single line mentioning Kapila. Without the other four verses it will look incomplete at first glance, but if someone took the time to check the cited Vishnu Purana verse it would be self-evident. I will try to type up the verses some time today and post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Parashara is speaking to Maitreya: caturyuge 'pyasau vishnuh sthitivyaparalakshana yugavyavastham kurutte yatha maitreya tacchrinu "O Maitreya, I will next tell you how Lord Vishnu effects the preservation in the four ages. Hear this." Then Parashara begins explaining the incarnations Lord Vishnu takes in each yuga: krite yuge param jnanam kapiladisvarupadhrik dadati sarvabhutanam sarvabhutahite ratah cakravartti-svarupena tretayam api sa prabhuh dushtanam nigraham kurvan paripati jagat-trayam vedamekam caturbhedam kritva shakhasatairvibhuh karoti bahulam bhuyo vedavyasasvarupadhrik vedamstru dvapare vyasya kalerante punarharih kalkisvarupi durvrittan marge sthapayati prabhuh evamesha jagat sarvam paripati karoti ca hanti canteshvanantatma nastyasmadi vatireki yat Thus Kapila, Ramachandra, Vyasa and Kalki are stated to be the incarnations of Hari for maintaining the four yugas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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