religion without philosophy is..........

[mark]

I'm having a difficult time remembering exactly how that particular quote was phrased by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Could somebody who remembers this and knows to which quote I'm referring please fill in the blanks?

 

Religion without philosophy is____________

Philosophy without religion is ____________

 

Thanks you.

[vsdprasad]

Religion without philosophy is sentiment or sometimes fanaticism.

Philosophy without religion is speculation.

 

[mark]

Thank you. That was a very fast reply.

[Gauracandra]

How much of religion should be focused on ethics and morality, and how much on esoteric truths. I find that western religion (Christianity) focuses much on how to live in the world properly, while much of Eastern philosophy deals with the esoteric. I think first a solid base of proper culture needs to be established. Then from that base we can work towards the esoteric.

[Mxyzptlk]

Doesn't the Bible say "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all things will be added unto you?" I believe Srila Prabhupada's strategy was to first off create devotees, then when there are enough devotees, then establish Varnashrama. Even today there are lots of devotees, but still we seem unable to get Varnashrama off the ground. Not sure why, except maybe there are so many different 'camps' nowadays, and it's difficult to unite all the devotees under this common cause.

[Guest guest]

Religion without philosophy is Christianity.

Philosophy without religion is Buddhism.

[anveshan]

Oh, Father, Loving Father, I have some questions in mind

Why Thy created me and brought me into this world,

Wen I was tranquil and in complete peace

At my unborn, abstract neutral stage?

 

Father, my Father, tell me why thou created me

Was it to worship, adore and flatter Thee

And to turn back to Thee and reach Thee back

Or was it Thy leela, a master-craftsman’s pastime great?

 

O, Father, Grandsire and Great Grandsire of mine and all

Thou hast created-at-will, it is said or written so

And, alas, at-will Thy could not herd Thy flock

To Thy creatures (or slave’s?) great dismay and shock.!

 

O, Father of fire and death, day and dusk, love and hate

Thou got enraged and Thou got alighted and appeased

All animal passions, I have been taught

Was it Thy leela, maya or passion great?

 

And Thou, who created-at-will sent prophets and messengers great

To Thy ‘Chosen Ones’ midst

And Thou, the Compassionate One, so loved the world

That Thou sent Thy ONLY BEGOTTEN SON

(We are all Thy slaves, I assume).

 

Master, Thou revealed the vedas, the code divine,

To father Manu, Thy chosen one, Gifted

Commandments great to Moses, the chosen one

And Mohammed went to the caves with a pencil and notebook

 

To take down Thy dictation of the code divine

Father, to my dismay all the codes differed

And created a perpetual hatred amongst Thy creatures

O, Creator of Love and Hatred, prostrations to Thee.

 

As per Thou codes divine we fought the holy wars

Wars of the Crescent and the divine Cross

We unmade those temples the pagans and kafirs built

And built masjids of Thee, churches great.

 

The temple of that pagan demi-god Ram we demolished

And a beautiful masjid we built for Thee at it’s place

We demolished the Masjid and rebuilt the mandir of Ram

All for Thee and only for Thee, my adorable Father.

 

The rivers Thou created has been filled with human blood

We have made mountains out of demolished scrap and bodies dead

And we fight like fiery bulls on Thy codes divine

So that we can reach out to Thee and enjoy Thy kingdom great.

 

Thou art the Father of all that is abstract and the concrete

Of the swine and the cow, the Sudra, the kafir, the al-ameen and all

None can rival or out rival Thee nor plumb Thy power on earth

A billion salutations to Thee!

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well it seems the word 'mudha' was quite accurate, for even after feigned apologies, the arrogance continues.

 

Strike three. You have just ceased to exist.

[Guest guest]

 

you say religion without philosophy is christianity,

that is a broad statement,without merit.

some christian religions are lacking a comprehensive

philosophy,others have an enourmous store of philosophy.

 

You say buddhism is philosophy without religion,again

to broad a statement, some buddhist schools are

a type of pantheism or panantheism,other schools

are more diety driven.

 

[Guest guest]

"That Thou sent Thy ONLY BEGOTTEN SON

(We are all Thy slaves, I assume)."

 

One: Jesus is the only son of God.

 

Prabhupada: Why? God is not potent? Ordinary people have many children, so then why god cannot have more children?

we all are children of god.

 

"Why Thy created me and brought me into this world,"

 

as a sould you are eternal.

the reason one takes birth in this world is the desire of that soul (jiva) to control the material energy.

so god is not at fault. god only helps fulfil a soils desire. actiosn done under the influence of maya give bad reactions.

 

about rama's temple destruction and babri masjid:

 

according to koran teh muslimd did what was very hly thing - destroy rama's temple. so it is obvious that korn is not god's word as there is no such word in the vedas or gita.

 

when the hindus want rama temple back, it is to undo the wrong dome by muslims and exercise the freedom to do whatever hindu want to do in their own land. islam does not belog in india. it is invaded there.

soe never stand like a neutral thinking that both the parties are doing wrong. like a coward, never allow any invader aggressor to take away your freedom (to worship god/deva/devi) and destroy religious infrastructure.

 

 

[anveshan]

====================================

"That Thou sent Thy ONLY BEGOTTEN SON"

(We are all Thy slaves, I assume).

====================================

 

This is a quote from the New Book (upon which christianity is founded). It's very foundation is wrong. It is on the assumption that God is man-like and manly, gets enraged, appeased, flattered and procreates like us, animals. In fact every religion is founded on the wrong footing and pictured God as they like. The theme that It is not impotent and can beget many children is also a human thinking.

===================================================

"Why Thy created me and brought me into this world,"

===================================================

It is a question to man-made religions who pictures God as the One who gets appeased, flattered when worshipped, and enraged when displeased. The religions say that God created man to please Him and ultimately to reach out Him ( or a seat at the hih ups, some say).

====================================

about rama's temple destruction and babri masjid:

 

Consider this as a cultural assault. Cultural assaults and subjugation of a people were a continued process

in human history. Jews were enslaved, Romans subjugated the Mediteranean kingdoms, the aryans subjugated the pre-aryan populace, and most recent, the on going Christian subjugation and cultural assault of the Nagas/Mongol-Khmer tribes of the North Eastern India. During the Islamic cultural assault, Indians were unable to fight the invading thugs . Why? The majority of the population was under torture, subjugation and continued persecution by the ruling Brahmino-Kshatri oligarchy. One of the reasons for the on going conversions is also the caste system. As and when the Hindu leadership opens their eyes wide into the problem, the conversions can be stopped to a greater extent. Just discard or set right the Manu’s Code and built up a Hindu society based on equality and fraternity. Knowledge is acquired, and not gifted on birth to certain classes. A reformer of the sort of Sankaracharya with a difference is needed for that.

 

On the religious side of the Rama temple-Babri Masjid issue, man has made, unmade and remade temples, mosques, churches to please his ‘own’ gods. The Ultimate Reality is not interested in the making or unmaking of abodes for Him.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

I was under the impression that the Supreme Personality of Godhead has intentionally created all the confusion in religion so there would be seperation from Himself and the result would be all the unwanted population so he can ultimately execute his role as the Kalki avatar.

[Vaishnava_das108]

YES !!!!!

 

EUREKA !!! This is a good answer to a queston that has been bugging me for YEARS!!

 

Thank you!!!!

[Guest guest]

no, uh uh, sorry.

 

the many different philosophies and lifestyles

in the material world are manifested for the Karmic

neccesities of the conditioned souls.

 

the material world exists for the gradual

developement of pure consciousness, this takes

place during the 4 yugas or ages, repeating over and over.

 

in every kali yuga these things are going on,

there is a necessity for them due to the

conditioned souls progress in becoming

free from karmic entanglements,and rising

to the plane of Krishna consciousness.

 

when this yuga is over,then kalki comes, and it starts all

over again, this is not because kalki needs to do something,it's just the process playing itself out.,

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

On page 25 of Srimad Bhagavatam first canto part one Prabhupada says " The Lord further added that the Mayavada philosophy taught by Sripada Sankaracarya is an imaginary explanation of the Vedas, but it had to be taught by by him (Sankaracarya) because he was ordered to teach it by the Personality of Godhead. In the Padma Purana it is stated that the Personality of Godhead ordered His Lordship Siva to deviate the human race from Him (The Personality of Godhead). The Personality of Godhead was to be covered so that people would be encouraged to generate more and more population. His Lordship Siva said to Devi: "In the Kali-yuga, I shall preach the Mayavada philosophy, which is nothing but clouded Buddhism, in the garb of a brahmana"

 

And how do you explain this my son. Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1 Chapter 5 Text 8 "Sri Narada said: You have not actually broadcast the sublime and spotless glories of the Personality of Godhead. That philosophy which does not satisfy the transcendental senses of the Lord is considered worthless."

 

It just shows you the incredible power of the Lord. He has essentially fooled people to generate unwanted population and when the Kalki avatar appears he will eliminate the degenerated kings of the Earth and restore the World to the only true philosophy which is devotional service to the Lord.

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

you have proven that you too have been fooled by the Mayavada philosophy.

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

Are you suggesting that Kalki or any other incarnation of God doesn't have a specific purpose and function that they just come because "things are playing themselves out."?

[gHari]

Someone wrote:<blockquote>"The Ultimate Reality is not interested in the making or unmaking of abodes for Him."</blockquote>

 

Don't you mean " ... for It." ?

[Guest guest]

this is what you said at first-

 

I was under the impression that the Supreme Personality of Godhead has intentionally created all the confusion in religion so there would be seperation from Himself and the result would be all the unwanted population so he can ultimately execute his role as the Kalki avatar.

 

 

 

then you quote the bhagavatam-

 

The personality of godhead was to be covered so that people would be encouraged to generate more and more population.

 

what you said and what the quote you gave said are two different things.

 

creating different religions and being covered are two different things.

[Guest guest]

also you take statements from shastra that have a

meaning different then what you propose, i.e. that the purpose of various religions is for the purpose of increasing population.

 

i mean how many people follow the teachings of Sankara in

the world today ?

 

very few.

 

the mass of religions teach a personal theology,based

on a personal God, so the quote you gave has to be taken

in the context of explaining Shiva's manifestation

as Sankara, not as an explanation of all religious

teachings, it has a deeper meaning.

 

i mean really most of those who follow Sankara seriously

are celibate monks , hardly the way to increase

population.

 

 

 

 

[Vaishnava_das108]

 

when this yuga is over,then kalki comes, and it starts all over again, this is not because kalki needs to do something,it's just the process playing itself out.,

 

 

Right. And then this begs the next question; WHY should different philosophies/lifestyles exist or are created by God for the supposed karmic neccesities of the souls?

 

For what purpose?

 

And how can God allow people to "suffer" under the weight of Mayavada?

 

Etc, etc, etc,....

 

And the answer is that it is intentional. After all, the Padma Purana explicitly states so, that Shiva was sent to preach a "deviated" philosophy, pracanna-bauddham, to confuse the population.

 

Question is; why?

[gHari]

Due to various attachments, most people would have to reject religion as too inconvenient. However, since there are varieties of schools just about everyone can make some degree of advancement, eventually passing from one school to the next, finally on to krsna-tattva. The envious can pursue Lord Buddha's philosophy, learning ahimsa. Even the flesh-eaters can follow a variety of schools that will instill moral values.

 

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur comments on the nature of religious sectarianism in the introduction to his Sri Krsna Samhita. A short excerpt from those comments follows:<blockquote><font color="blue">From engagement in material activities up to the awakening of spiritual activities is called the preliminary stage of God consciousness. From this preliminary stage up to the uttama-adhikari stage there are innumerable levels:<BLOCKQUOTE>ONE - Inquiring about the truth of the material world is called Sakta-dharma, because the predominating deity of the material world is goddess Durga. All behavior and practice instructed in Sakta-dharma is helpful only in the preliminary stage. Such behavior and practice is meant to bring one closer to spiritual life, and materialistic people may be attracted by this only until they begin to inquire about the Supreme Absolute Truth. Sakta-dharma is the living entity's initial spiritual endeavor, and it is extremely essential for people of that level.

 

TWO - When the preliminary stage is further strengthened, one attains the next level. One then considers the energy of work and the superiority of heat over dull matter, and one therefore accepts the sun-god, who is the source of heat, as one's worshipable deity. At that time, Saura-dharma is awakened.

 

THREE - Later, when one considers even heat as dull matter and animal consciousness as superior, one attains the third stage, Ganapatya-dharma.

 

FOUR - In the fourth gross stage, Lord Siva is worshiped as the pure consciousness of the living entities, and Saiva-dharma manifests.

 

FIVE - In the fifth stage, the consciousness of the living entity worships the supreme consciousness, and thus Vaisnava-dharma is manifest.</BLOCKQUOTE>By nature, there are five types of paramarthic dharmas, or spiritual duties, which have been known throughout the world by different names at different times. If one considers all the different dharmas that are current in India and abroad, one can see that they certainly fall within these five categories.

 

The religious principles taught by Mohammed and Jesus Christ are similar to the religious principles taught by Vaisnava sects. Buddhism and Jainism are similar to Saiva-dharma.

 

This is a scientific consideration of truths regarding religious principles. Those who consider their own religious principles as real dharma and others' religious principles as irreligion or subreligion are unable to ascertain the truth due to being influenced by prejudice.

 

Actually religious principles followed by people in general are different only due to the different qualifications of the practitioners, but the constitutional religious principles of all living entities are one.

 

It is not proper for swanlike persons to reject the religious principles that people in general follow according to their situation. Therefore, with due respect to the religious principles followed by people in general, we will now discuss the living entity's constitutional religious principles.</blockquote></font color>gHari

[krsna]

Due to various attachments, most people would have to reject religion as too inconvenient. However, since there are varieties of schools just about everyone can make some degree of advancement, eventually passing from one school to the next, finally on to krsna-tattva. The envious can pursue Lord Buddha's philosophy, learning ahimsa. Even the flesh-eaters can follow a variety of schools that will instill moral values.

 

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur comments on the nature of religious sectarianism in the introduction to his Sri Krsna Samhita. A short excerpt from those comments follows:

From engagement in material activities up to the awakening of spiritual activities is called the preliminary stage of God consciousness. From this preliminary stage up to the uttama-adhikari stage there are innumerable levels:

ONE - Inquiring about the truth of the material world is called Sakta-dharma, because the predominating deity of the material world is goddess Durga. All behavior and practice instructed in Sakta-dharma is helpful only in the preliminary stage. Such behavior and practice is meant to bring one closer to spiritual life, and materialistic people may be attracted by this only until they begin to inquire about the Supreme Absolute Truth. Sakta-dharma is the living entity's initial spiritual endeavor, and it is extremely essential for people of that level.

 

TWO - When the preliminary stage is further strengthened, one attains the next level. One then considers the energy of work and the superiority of heat over dull matter, and one therefore accepts the sun-god, who is the source of heat, as one's worshipable deity. At that time, Saura-dharma is awakened.

 

THREE - Later, when one considers even heat as dull matter and animal consciousness as superior, one attains the third stage, Ganapatya-dharma.

 

FOUR - In the fourth gross stage, Lord Siva is worshiped as the pure consciousness of the living entities, and Saiva-dharma manifests.

 

FIVE - In the fifth stage, the consciousness of the living entity worships the supreme consciousness, and thus Vaisnava-dharma is manifest.

By nature, there are five types of paramarthic dharmas, or spiritual duties, which have been known throughout the world by different names at different times. If one considers all the different dharmas that are current in India and abroad, one can see that they certainly fall within these five categories.

 

The religious principles taught by Mohammed and Jesus Christ are similar to the religious principles taught by Vaisnava sects. Buddhism and Jainism are similar to Saiva-dharma.

 

This is a scientific consideration of truths regarding religious principles. Those who consider their own religious principles as real dharma and others' religious principles as irreligion or subreligion are unable to ascertain the truth due to being influenced by prejudice.

 

Actually religious principles followed by people in general are different only due to the different qualifications of the practitioners, but the constitutional religious principles of all living entities are one.

 

It is not proper for swanlike persons to reject the religious principles that people in general follow according to their situation. Therefore, with due respect to the religious principles followed by people in general, we will now discuss the living entity's constitutional religious principles.

[krsna]

The Absolute Truth

Who is God? From the pages of the sacred texts, most notably, the Srimad Bhagavatam, Krsna is God or the Absolute Truth from which all other truths are derived. Ten topics are covered in the Bhagavatam, from the universal creation to the universal annihilation. The tenth and most important of the subjects is the asraya or shelter of the other nine subjects, Sri Krsna. His glories are directly enumerated within the tenth book (the tenth canto).

 

Krsna denotes the all-attractive personality, who possesses all qualities by which he attracts all. Krs denotes existence and na denotes happiness, thus Krsna denotes the most blissful existence.

 

Brahma, the first living being within the cosmic manifestation prays to Krsna thus, govindam adi purusam tam aham bhajami, “I offer my obeisances unto the Supreme Lord, Govinda”. Govinda is another name for Krsna. In his eternal abode of Goloka Vrndavana, Krsna tends cows in a rural village setting; thus he is called Govinda or the master or maintainer of cows. The cows symbolically represent all the devas or demigods, thus Govinda means master of all the demigods.

 

In the “Song of God” or the Bhagavat Gita, Krsna states his supremacy over all others, aham sarvasya prabhavo, mattah sarvam pravartate, iti matva bhajante mam, budha bhava samanvitah, “I am the source of all (the devas, human and other species of life, including the Brahman effulgence and my partial manifestation, Lord Narayana of Vaikuntha). Everything comes from me. Those who perfectly know this, the wise, worship me with all their hearts.”

 

Krishna is the origin of Visnu, who is one of his innumerable personal manifestations. Just as from one candle all others are lit equally, so also all visnu expansions derive their origin from Krsna. Thus Krsna is avatari or the source of all other avatars. The Srimad Bhagavatam states, “All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions, but Lord Sri Krsna is the original Supreme Lord. All his incarnations appear whenever the world is troubled by the enemies of Indra.” (1.3.28) The Bhagavatam has listed a number of Incarnations and Krsna was listed among them. Suta Goswami spoke the above verse in order to differentiate Krsna’s position from the various incarnations.

 

Krsna’s shaktis or energies are unlimited; the most significant ones are:

 

the internal potency

external potency

marginal potency

 

The internal potency is further divided into three:

sat (eternality potency)

chit (cognizance potency)

ananda (pleasure giving potency)

 

The external potency is referred to as maya or the deluding potency which covers the soul’s awareness of its spiritual nature. The external potency governs the material cosmos, which is ¼ the creation of the Lord and which houses innumerable universes.

 

The spiritual potency governs the spiritual world, which is ¾ of the Lord’s creation.

 

The marginal potency comprises the innumerable souls who are of a spiritual nature qualitatively one with the Lord as conscious entities, but quantitatively smaller.

 

By surrendering onto Krsna, all one’s misgiving are dissipated and all-auspiciousness prevails.

 

Those who surrender to Krsna and achieve love of God or prema are eligible to enter the Supreme spiritual planet Goloka Vrndavana where Lord Krsna personally resides. Having gone there, one does not repeat another birth in the mundane world, but achieves ever-lasting happiness.