Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Can a authoritative person or a gaudiya scholar please explain to me the difference between Bheda-abheda and Achintya Bheda-abheda. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 the difference is in rasa tattva. The Sri vaisnava(bheda -abheda,or visishtadvaita) takes the concept of Vaikuntha as the final destination. The Gaudiya Vaisnava(achintya-bheda-abheda) increases the ocean of nectar by showing the flow of ecstacy originates not in vaikuntha, but at the lotus feet of Sri Radha Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Thank you Shiva dasa for the reply Perhaps you are trying to show the oneness and difference in Sriman Narayana and Lord Krsna by your comment "ocean of nectar .. " This will lead to the proposition that Sriman Näräyana has four transcendental qualities less than Krsna etc but how would one reconcile this with the words of Chaitanya, CC, Madhya 9.153 TEXT 153 kåñëa-näräyaëa, yaiche eka-i svarüpa gopé-lakñmé-bheda nähi haya eka-rüpa TRANSLATION There is no difference between Lord Krsna and Lord Näräyana, for They are of the same form. Similarly, there is no difference between the gopis and the goddess of fortune, for they also are of the same form. What I like to know is the difference in Bhaskara's bhedabheda and Gaudiya's achintya-bhedabheda. Please be informed that visistadvaita is not the same as bhedabheda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 you are right, although there are different types of bhedabheda, bhaskara and nimbarka, "From Madhva I will take two essential teachings; his complete rejection and defeat of the Mayavadi philosophy and his service to the deity of Krishna accepting Him as an eternal spiritual personality. From Ramanuja I will accept two teachings; the concept of devotional service, unpolluted by karma and jnana, and service to the devotees. From Vishnuswami]s teachings I will accept two elements; the sentiment of exclusive dependence on Krishna and the path of raga-marga or spontaneous devotion. From Nimbarka, I will take two very important principles; the necessity of taking shelter of Srimati Radharani and the high esteem of the gopi's love for Krishna." Bhaskara's bhedabheda is similar to advaita in that in his view the jiva upon perfection becomes identical to brahman. While nimbarkas bhedabheda teaches that he becomes one with,yet different in quantity, a kind of hazy incopmlete view that ramanuja would complete. ramanuja takes this furthur and gives the jiva interaction with the person of the supreme being, again one and different yet the supreme being is recognized as having personality. eventually Sri Chaitanya completes the progression giving the most intimate understanding introducing the concept of the supremacy of Sri Radha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 that was Sri Chaitanya i was quoting above, yeah i got vishishtadvaita confused with dvaitadvaita, bhaskara's bhedabheda and Sri Chaitanyas achintya bheda-abheda are worlds apart, the mayavadi philosophy of bhaskara rejects the individuality of the jiva, foolishly ignoring the obvious- we are not god-, and in a convoluted torturous process of mental gymnastics try and indentify the jiva as God fallen to ignorance of his godhood, not realizing the contradictory nature of this argument, that is who is in control of the universe when you are not ? not understanding the comprehensive constant work in maintaining the universe and everything and everyone, they foolishly speculate that god has lost his mind. Yet their hearts beat,their lungs breath and the sun shines, without any effort of theirs, this obvious negation of the idea that god has lost himself and become a jiva or that the jiva can become identical with god is due to a lack of spiritual intelligence and karmic reactions. you can never become completely one with the infinite, that is obvious yet those whose vision is confused cannot understand that simple truth, we are eternally ourselves, what other reason would we have to exist ? What use would we be to the supreme being if we were to become without individuality ?,without our individuality , we have nothing to contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 dear guest you stated that visistadvaita is not the same as bhedabheda, that is not accurate. while bhaskara and nimbarka call their system bhedabheda, and ramanuja calls his visistadvaita, these are only titles. the fact is that visistadvaita of ramanuja is bhedabheda in the vaisnava sense, he admits both oneness with the supreme and eternal difference, this is vaisnava bhedabheda, one and different, the same as nimbarka and caitanya, the names of their systems are different but the teaching of bhedabheda each incorporates, whereas bhaskara's system of bhedabheda is of an altogether different philosophy, he teaches that the atma upon self realization becomes identical with brahman,losing individuality. There also is the saivite bhedabheda as well, which is similar to the vaisnava bhedabheda,with Siva replacing Vishnu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Lord Jesus Christ also demonstrated the same theology, in that the purpose of He and His Father is one, while they are different for the purpose of showing transcendental relationship of loving exchange. Monistic philosophy, where only God exists and no other, there is no possibility for loving exchange, no possibility for yoga or yoking. Only by the arrangement of difference between the living entity and the Supreme Being can love be expressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 very nice, although most christian sects misinterpret those words of the new testament and use it as the basis for insistence that jesus claimed to be God, when in truth it has the gnostic conotation, as you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 bhedabheda = Visistadvaita bhedabheda = Dvaitadvaita bhedabheda = Achintya bhedabheda bhedabheda = Saiva bhedabheda great revelations, I am enlightened .. it is all just "titles" .. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 bhedabheda is Not = Dvaita Achintya bhedabheda is NOT = Dvaita But Madhva Sampradaya = Brahma Gaudiya Sampardaya How is this possible ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 see the fourth post in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Shivadasa commented "while nimbarkas bhedabheda teaches that he becomes one with,yet different in quantity, a kind of hazy incopmlete view that ramanuja would complete. ramanuja takes this furthur and gives the jiva interaction with the person of the supreme being, again one and different yet the supreme being is recognized as having personality" Visistadvaita was not "founded " by Ramanuja, neither is it a progression of of Bhaskara or Yadavaprakasas's bhedabheda. Proof : 1) In Sri Bhasya and Vedarthasangraha, Ramanuja quotes from eminenet exponents of visistadvaita vedanta such as , Bodhayana, Tanka, Dramida, Guhadeva , Kapardi and Bharuci. 2) The lineage of visistadvaita can be traced back to Bodhayana, Guhadeva, Bharuci, Brahmanandin, Dramidacarya, Sri Parankusa, Nathamuni, Yamunacarya ... etc .. 3) Nathamuni who lived in 9th century was the first exponent of visistadvita as a system of philosophy, He wrote 2 important works - nyaya tattva ( a very important philosophical treatise) and Yoga rahasya. 4) Furthermore, the Alvars were exponents of visistadvaita and their works had profound influence on visistadvaita acaryas like Nathamuni and Ramanuja. If your claim that Chaitanya eventually completes "the progression giving the most intimate understanding ...the supremacy of Sri Radha" is true . Then, a system based on progrssion can never be Real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 in my reading the first is bodhayana,in his Vritti from around 400 b.c. while in fact that philosphy goes back furthur,depending on interpretation in the puranas. and even furthur when you take into consideration that vedic dharma is cyclical and repeats over and over throughout the ages. My point was that in this age, Ramanuja popularized the concept,before him it was not popular due to the influence of kali yuga in covering over the original conclusions of vedic knowledge presented by Veda Vyasa. in his day the teaching becme popular because of his preaching, as Madhva had become popular before,and Sankara also before him. The full revelation of bhagavat dharma was concluded by Sri Chaitanya and his followers in a comprehensive populous way, opening up the storehouse of love, as they described it, and inundating the world with the full complete conception that it originally had. this is all part of the divine plan, and not happening in a happenstance way, while the full original conclusion was never fully lost to all, the influence of Kali yuga had in effect hidden the original siddhanta from the population at large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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