What do Hare Krishna devotees believe about Christ?

[Guest guest]

gHari,

 

I misunderstood something you said, or mis-read it. I thought you said we may appear "insecure," but you said "insincere." Sorry.

 

Yes, I have much evidence and information. I now understand your question. Guess not many have as much as I do, but I have covered quite a bit of it on my web pages. Matter of fact, some of that post ('Jesus Was A Vaisnava') is copied and pasted from my site.

 

I have not kept on top of the casket of Christs brother, tho I did hear they said it was a fake. Still, I am not so quick to believe them because this is what they do. Steal documentation or lie and say something is unreal that they know is real. This is their pattern. Just look at the shroud (what I wrote previously) and all the accusations that it was a mideval forgery. Then recently a scientist debunked their so called evidence which was suppose to prove it as a forgery. He completey debunked it! They looked pretty foolish. So I think I will wait on the casket of Christ's brother and see if any other information surfaces.

 

 

Perhaps your website will get some projects funded to do just that.

 

 

WOW I never thought of that. But I haven't a clue which direction to go with such a thing. Right now, I am just trying to get the information "out there." Thanks tho.

 

By the way, here's a little more speculation for ya. ha This one is not on my site for that reason, or for the reason it involved some mystical or spirutal experiences.

 

In the book "Saving the Savior" there is an interesting story. One person saw a man rising out of the earth and out of a dirty mud puddle. The man was all muddied, and the observer began to realize this man was Jesus. Then Jesus approached him and made a request. Summed up it was to please clean him off because his teachings have been dirtied or contaminated. Ok, may sound questionable. I thought so too, but it gets better. Another person also had this happen to them, where Jesus emerged from a dirty place and said to them that he was dirty, to please clean him/his teachings. And yet a third, around the 70s I think (I can find out), had again this same experience! So folks can take that with a grain of salt if they wish, tho in India they take the number "three" as an indicator of something to take seriously. Anyway, I just wanted to share that story with everyone on these boards.

 

I realized I am not logged in, and can't edit my messed up posts. So will stop posting for now. Thanks everyone for tolerating my ramblings.

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[theist]

I have taken it that sincere devotees of Christ go to his planet for further training about the Supreme Personality of Godhead, not directly to the spiritual sky. That planet I believe to be within the universe. But since Christ presides there it is also Vaikuntha. You all know what I am trying to say.

 

 

 

 

Rukmiëé: Is there a Christ-loka?

 

Prabhupäda: Yes. Why not? There are innumerable lokas. Why not Christ-loka? [break]

...jagad-aëòa-koöi-

koöiñv açeña-vasudhädi-vibhüti-bhinnam

tad brahma niçkalam anantam açeña-bhütaà

govindam ädi-puruñaà tam ahaà bhajäm

 

In the effulgence, bodily effulgence of Govinda, just like the sunshine is effulgence of the sun planet, similarly, Govinda’s planet, the original planet, which is called Goloka Våndävana, that is the original effulgence, light. And when that light is distributed there are innumerable universes created. Just like within the sunlight there are innumerable planets. So in each and every planet there are different kinds of living entities, so why not a planet belonging to Christ? There is no doubt about it. There must be. [break] The Fifth Canto of Srimad-Bhägavatam, the description of different planets are there. [break] SB lecture 7.9.12-13

 

 

 

The point I am trying to make is that Krsna awards a person according to their attachment and desire.Worship the demi-gods and you go to the demi-gods worship ghosts and we go there, worship Krsna and we go to Krsna-loka, so it easily follows that if one sincerely worships Christ, he will not go to some vague heaven, but more specifically to Christ-loka.

 

Now how many current "Christians" that may apply to is another question. I personally believe many of these self professed Christians are headed for a lower planetary system but that's my speculation.

 

So it may be more benefical when talking to Christians to try and strengthen their faith in Christ then to try and have them accept Krsna.

 

Myself I only talk to them on meat eatting, reincarnation, body not the self etc. and also like to point out that from the example of Christ's life salvation is not the topmost goal.

 

But rather than taking a sectarianist stance let's be encouraging just like we like to be encouraged.

 

Chant the name of Christ, day and night.

[Guest guest]

 

Still looking for the quote on Christ coming directly from the spiritual sky Priitaa. It's a blissful search.

 

 

 

 

In reply to:

--

 

Prabhupäda: Body of Christ is not ordinary body. That is spiritual body. Krsna, as Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gétä, yadä yadä hi dharmasya glänir bhavati bhärata [bg. 4.7], pariträëäya sädhünäà vinäçäya ca duñkåtäm, dharma-saàsthäpanärthäya yuge yuge sambhavämi ätma-mäyayä [bg. 4.8]. So this is a very subtle point. One has to understand that when God comes or God’s son comes or God’s representative comes, they do not accept a body like us. They have their spiritual body. SB lecture 7.6.1 June 10,68

 

...take the essence...SP letter to Krsnadasa 1972

 

 

Oops, couldn't leave without replying to this.

 

Now thats a good one! Still not exactly what I am looking for ha, but I never read this one either! What a great point - that Christ's body is not ordinary. Of course that makes sense to the devotee. Still, its refreshing to read. And good for evidence when preaching to someone favorable.

 

Am glad you dont mind doing this. Thanks.

 

Oh, this one is definitely going on one of my web sites! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[Guruvani]

hari nama hari nama hari nama eva kevalam

kalau nastyeva nastyeva nastyeva gatir anyata

 

In this age of Kali, there is no other means of self-realization than chanting the Holy Name of Hari...

There is no other way, no other way no other way!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Appears Guruvani's on a mission. Therefore can't hear anyone elses point of view. Devotees know there is no other way. To insinuate otherwise is ................ fill in the blank.

 

Devotees who make offenses to Christ are still committing Vaisnava aparadha.

[gHari]

Being a vaishnava has nothing to do with India.

 

That is what Srila Prabhupada saw.

 

Ksamabuddhi Prabhu, if you are not willing to preach as Srila Prabhupada did on the subject of Jesus, then you should just remain silent. You are simply offensive. If you think about it long enough, it is also offensive to Prabhupada, editing his words and ideas, accepting some and not others, floundering to come up with reasons that made his opinions differ from your uninformed speculations. Is your audience any different from his? This is a spiritual group and we do have Christian readers. By all means preach to the choir, but there are some here who are trying to undo the mess that has already been created in the name of Krsna.

 

It is just offensive. You don't like the subject, so just leave it alone. Your opinions are worthless and contemptible, especially for someone who has been floating around Krsna so long. This is exactly what the Christians would expect from a crazy cult of atheists.

 

gHari

[Priitaa]

 

Rukmiëé: Is there a Christ-loka?

 

Prabhupäda: Yes. Why not? There are innumerable lokas. Why not Christ-loka? [break]

...jagad-aëòa-koöi-

koöiñv açeña-vasudhädi-vibhüti-bhinnam

tad brahma niçkalam anantam açeña-bhütaà

govindam ädi-puruñaà tam ahaà bhajäm

 

In the effulgence, bodily effulgence of Govinda, just like the sunshine is effulgence of the sun planet, similarly, Govinda’s planet, the original planet, which is called Goloka Våndävana, that is the original effulgence, light. And when that light is distributed there are innumerable universes created. Just like within the sunlight there are innumerable planets. So in each and every planet there are different kinds of living entities, so why not a planet belonging to Christ? There is no doubt about it. There must be. [break] The Fifth Canto of Srimad-Bhägavatam, the description of different planets are there. [break] SB lecture 7.9.12-13

 

 

Haribol Thiest,

 

Thank you for this quote. Wonderful! Yes, I understand what you mean that although this is a planet in the materal world (heavens), since satktyavesa avatara/Christ is there, it is Vaikuntha, or a type of Vaikuntha anyway. Tho various things have been said regarding where he came from and where he later went to. I read Prabhupada said he went to the Spiritual Sky, tho your point could be what he meant. Then again, not. <sigh> Guess there are no clear answers on this, but oh well, its a start.

 

I am unsure if the rest of your letter was aimed at me or ummmm 'someone else,' so I won't say much. I think the only thing that crosses my mind is that if devotees didn't preach to me because I was a Christian, I wouldn't be here now! And that's a scary thought! Matter of fact, at least half the movement wouldn't be here if we didn't believe in preaching (clarification: sharing or talking) to Christians. Tho I do feel we should not shove anything down their throat, or anyone's for that matter.

 

I suspect what you are referring to is that we should not preach to Christians who are completely closed to Krishna C and maybe would even become offensive if we did. That makes sense. But we can still give them prasadam! :-)

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[theist]

haribol Priitaa,

 

Yes there is not an absoluely clear picture on these points that i can find. Enough to know Lord Jesus Christ is a shaktyavesa avatar. I have read where Prabhupada said he came from the Spiritual Sky but I just can't find it now. Then it could be asked when he came from the Spiritual Sky. 2,000 years ago? At the beginning of this universe? Sometime in between?

 

We will find it all out if we stick to this bhakti path.

 

I may have given the wrong impression. I don't suggest that people avoid talking to Christians. i only meant that i never bring up Radha Krsna-lila and just speak on other topics.

[Priitaa]

Not sure if this is exactly the one I sw it in, but it runs a close second:

 

 

There are many examples in history of devotees of the Lord risking their lives for the spreading of God consciousness. The favorite example is Lord Jesus Christ. He was crucified by the nondevotees, but he sacrificed his life for spreading God consciousness. Of course, it would be superficial to understand that he was killed. Similarly, in India also there are many examples, such as Thakura Haridasa. Why such risk? Because they wanted to spread Krsna consciousness, and it is difficult. A Krsna conscious person knows that if a man is suffering, it is due to his forgetfulness of his eternal relationship with Krsna. Therefore, the highest benefit one can render to human society is relieving one's neighbor from all material problems. In such a way, a pure devotee is engaged in the service of the Lord. Now, we can imagine how merciful Krsna is to those engaged in His service, risking everything for Him. Therefore it is certain that such persons must reach the supreme planet after leaving the body." BG 11.55 P

 

 

I would agree that it is enough to know Jesus is a shaktyavesa avatar. Not sure if time matters, or am thinking about how it is linear and spiritual planets and spiritual people are not linear - can cross over time in the wink of an eye. ha Tho they also may not. For them its choice. Or an instruction they follow.

 

Yes, sticking to Bhakti yoga will ultimately answer everything.

 

Oh, Radha-Krishna lila, now that's something I would bring up to Christians either!

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[theist]

Yes its always a little dangerous. If we induce them to aparadha what is the value of our attempt to communicate.

 

But at the same time there are so many of them that become frustrated at the lak of sound teaching and look for more 'esoteric'sources usually ending up with some mayavadi nonsense. "God is formless spiritJesus is the Father" etc.

 

Your web site is filling a void for sure. I see it as service to Christ Prabhupada and Krsna.Prabhupada and krsna obviously but Christ did say to peter (and to all) "..if you love me feed my sheep"

[Priitaa]

 

Your web site is filling a void for sure. I see it as service to Christ Prabhupada and Krsna.Prabhupada and krsna obviously but Christ did say to peter (and to all) "..if you love me feed my sheep"

 

 

WOW I never thought of it that way. Thank you! Sometimes I wonder if Christ is a bit of a shiksa guru over devotees, helping us to somehow or other preach, as well as to remain steady or keep on endeavoring in our Krishna consciousness. After all, we finally got his message, that God is a person and (his secret message), God's name is Krisna, so to chant Hare Krishna and be happy. Just my speculations.

 

Might as well post my third and last site on Christ and Krishna because its a little different. (I realize folks can get there thru my other ones, but most don't click around.) On this third site I give evidence of Christ mentioned in various religious scriptures of the world, explain the 'real' Promised Lands, Christ living in Kashmir India, etc. I took some Shroud info from it and used that in a previous post, above. But there is more shroud info on there.

 

And for those who say Prabhupada only spoke the way he did about Christ for political religious reasons, or whatever reasons, on this site I have a part of the MahaPurana's, specifically the Bhavaisya Purana. This was NOT translated by Prabhupada yet we see there is mention of Jesus there. So he was prophisized by the Vedas and not Prabhupada playing mind games, or political games, etc.

 

http://www.geocities.com/priitaa108/christ_and_krishna_pt3.htm

 

YS,

Prtha dd

 

[Guest guest]

Haribol, first, thanx for your wonderful articles, prtha dd, and your website is sublime.

 

The only folks I speak to are christians, as I havent even seen a hare krsna for fifteen years. But, when we speak to such folks, I must separaTE certain false docrtrines that have infected the theology, asuch as jesus being a poverty case when his family was very wealthy. The wise men were waiting 3000 years for his appearance, so does one really thing that they brought a few gold coins and a bag of spice buds to his birth. No, this is not the case, the wealth was immeasurable. The wedding at cana was a virtual Kennedy-type affair. His uncle, yusif arathemia, was his mentor and this person was well respected in Rome. Pontius Pilate's wife was a follower of Lord Jesus, as well as both the emperor tiberius and his wife.

 

The sanhedrin put jesus to his offence, not the politicians.

 

Anyway, the bible is severely flawed, and when we speak to christians, we show the purity of James and thomas didyamous, and also show the apostacy of Peter and Paul. Paul murdered the followers of James and thomas, and peter hated Mary of Magdalia, denied Lord Jesus Christ, and so many other things. Paul taught the morphing of the father and the son, nullifying the very yoga that Lord Jesus Christ taught. If the father and son are the same person, there is no relationship. If Jesus is God, then how can we take his yoke and experiance his love of the Father.

 

These contradictions and political machinations of those who wished to control their people by hammering them all with cricifixes must always be pointed out.

 

anyway. all youse folks that are writing good articles, keep up the good work, and Ill go back to my "read only" mode, hare krsna, ys, nmahaksadasa

[Priitaa]

 

Oh, Radha-Krishna lila, now that's something I would bring up to Christians either!

 

 

Would NOT bring up to them, would NOT.

 

Me and my typos! :-)

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[Priitaa]

Mahaksa prabhu, please don't go back to your read only mode! You have much good info, and besides, I have some questions. :-)

 

I had also read that Jesus came from a very wealthy family, similar to kingly, and that this is one reason he could travel so freely for preaching purposes. He could afford it.

 

A godsister once told me that the Three Wise Men with their gifts did not really arrive until Jesus was a toddler, maybe 2 or 3 years of age.

 

I never knew Pilate's wife was Christs follower, but am not surprised either, as I read that Pilate did everything he could to stop the crucifixion, so at the least, I understood him to be favorable and possibly more. There is even a quote from Prabhuapada somewhere, and I put it on one of my sites, suggesting this. That is, he never mentions him by name, but by position.

 

 

The sanhedrin put jesus to his offence, not the politicians.

 

 

Who is this? I was under the impression that Herod was the guy pushing for crucifixion, and many MANY Jewish rabbi's as well. Who or what are Sanhedrin?

 

 

Paul murdered the followers of James and thomas, and peter hated Mary of Magdalia, denied Lord Jesus Christ, and so many other things.

 

 

Regarding Peter, this would not surprise me, as I read one of Christ's disciples (and I "think" it said Peter) was jealous of Mary Magdaline. Though I read that by others of the times, she was given a post similar to that of Queen, and was highly respected. So maybe he took it that extra mile and downright hated her. Though am startled to read that Paul actually murdered the followers of James and Thomas! If you have any info on that, would be interested to read it.

 

 

Paul taught the morphing of the father and the son, nullifying the very yoga that Lord Jesus Christ taught. If the father and son are the same person, there is no relationship. If Jesus is God, then how can we take his yoke and experiance his love of the Father.

 

 

I have read, repeatedly, that Paul changed Christ's teachings, his very words, in order to convert others. That he extremely lowered the standards. But it seems he may have also done it for political reasons. Sad. I once heard that the Biblical verse that says "take my yoke," that Christs original words were "take my yoga." Does anyone have evidence of this?

 

Thanks for your wonderful post. Glad you liked my web site. I still need to work on it, to update it, tho am realizing that may be an ongoing service.

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[Guest guest]

Haribol. Perhaps not exactly radha-krsna lila, but some aspects can be covered thru the practical understanding that if mary is mother, and Eloha is Father, then the sons parents are husband and wife, are they not? In fact, mary is also known as Israel, which also translates as the "wife" of God. Catholics are better suited for this type of teaching, as many protestants disregard mary most unfortunately.

 

Haribol, ys, mahak

[theist]

Prabhupada did say Mother Mary was the representative of Radharani.

 

I worry about Christianity getting swamped by impersonalism.

 

How do we serve Lord Jesus by protecting the personalist conception in Christianity?

[Guest guest]

First, how do we keep impersonalism from affecting the hare krsna movement. The seat becomes the guru, the institution the initiator? Sounds like peter and paul all over again.

 

But, like jesus says those with ears must hear, there was not a bunch of earless folks there, they all had ears, but only purified ears can hear absolute truth, so he says "Pray as I do, Or Supreme Father, hallowed be thy name". Same goes for the horrible impersonalism infecting christianity, the church has authority over christ, which is demoniac. The church is eccliastic democracy demagogury where fools make policy for others to follow.

 

Christians must be taught the purification process by those who are practicing such purification, the sadhana bhaktis. Heck, ya cant even talk about god if they think that he is merged with is son, and all yoga is nullified by such an act.

 

Jesus taught yoga, meaning it is not god we love, it is not jesus we love, it is the loving exchange they have that is the attractive feature. The gopis could care less about narayan, they were looking for the blue guy by the river. Bona fide religion is description of loving exchange, and no one can preach religion while ignoring loving exchange between jesus and eloha, jesus and mary, eloha ane us, mary and us, all these LOVING EXCHANGES.

 

Haribol, theist, hope you and stony are okay with each other, i like a good scrap between bros now and then, as long as the "bro" status is never forgotton or neglected.

 

Hare Krsna, ys mahaksadasa

[theist]

yes all is well. Disagreements are just in the mind anyway. i am still trying to get home addresses for Babhru shiva and YOU. I want to sign youse guys up for the young Republicans home study course. No luck so far. Maybe Paramatma is protecting you.

[Priitaa]

Haribol prabhus,

 

Here is an interesting web site that came my way. On it they claim Jesus married and had children. Personally, this would not bother me in the least. I don't find it to reduce his status of pure devotee in any way. After all, look at Bhaktivinode Thakura. But the (fundamentalist) Christians may have a hard time with it.

 

It really takes reading all three pages to get the gist of it, as Jesus followed Jewish law quite strictly! And they are complex. The language barrier doesn't help much either. But this author explains it. After reading it, I would love to hear what the devotees opinions are. If you wish. Thanks.

 

http://www.aquavitic.freeserve.co.uk/lighter/hg1.html

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[theist]

Mahak, your emphasis on loving exchanges is the key. The mayavadi idea that loving exchanges are just a vehicle to carry one to the "true reality, that we are all God" needs to be shown in clear light for the hellish idea that it is.

 

The thing is to be effective it must come from the Bible itself or they will never accept it.

 

Priitaa, There is a verse somewhere where Jesus tells his disciples that to remain single and be celibate is the best thing but if one can't than to marry. I have forgotten totally where it is though. I don't accept that he married myself.

[Priitaa]

Thiest,

 

I understand what you mean. At first I wasn't too fond of the idea. We have all been taught a certain idea about him and it brings a sense of security, or maybe just for me. But even in Kashmir, where Prabhupada said Jesus went and lived the rest of his life, there was a PBS show years ago of people who claimed they were descendents of Jesus. Everyone in the area knew it too.

 

I also read because Jesus was not a pauper but the opposite, and held a high position, it was his responsibility to make sure his blood line continued. Part of Jewish tradition.

 

Householder life was different than compared to now. Often, they didn't even live with their spouse much, or at least not the hihger class. In the Vedic system too we see the women had separate quarters from the men.

 

Anyway, read the link and think it over. I can't say I have decided 100% about this, but so far there seems to be worhwhile evidence to support it.

 

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[theist]

Priithaa,

 

This is from Matthew 19

 

 

10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

 

11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.

 

12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

 

Jesus did not come to fullfill some Jewish traditions though that was the dominant culture of that time and place. I'm not sure I even accept that he stayed on this Earth after his resurrection. He may have. Interesting topic though.

 

 

[gHari]

10 Jesus' disciples objected, "If those are the terms of marriage, we're stuck. Why get married?"

 

11 But Jesus said, "Not everyone is mature enough to live a married life. It requires a certain aptitude and grace. Marriage isn't for everyone.

 

12 Some, from birth seemingly, never give marriage a thought. Others never get asked--or accepted. And some decide not to get married for kingdom reasons. But if you're capable of growing into the largeness of marriage, do it."

 

 

[theist]

This is the problem with today's Bible. So many versions.

 

gHari, don't you think verse twelve from the version you posted gives a different sense.

[gHari]

It is different than what I had taken it to mean, but maybe that is intention. Or maybe not. Actually I don't think I understand it at all; at least about being made eunuchs by men. Sounds painful to me.