Mayavadi Philosophy

[livingentity]

Mayavadi's consider the appearance of Lord Krsna and His pastimes and devotee's activities to be material (maya).

 

Prabhupada taught us that we must avoid Mayavadi Philosophy as poison.

 

Sometimes the way this philosphy is presented makes it very obvious and thus, easy to avoid but sometimes it is camoflaged in sanskrit and flowery verses making it difficult for the newcomer and unseasoned devotee to recognize and avoid reading until it is too late.

 

Perhaps in this thread we can present a discussion on Mayavadi philosophies and the Vaisnava refutal to them so as to help recognize and avoid.

 

I ask the help of the assembled devotees.

[livingentity]

Dear Sir,

I beg to inform you that I am in recept of your invitation letter in the matter of observing Bhagavata week through the secretary of Bombay spiritual centre. As I know what sort of Bhagavata week can be observed by the Mayavadins for misleading the innocent public and therefore I not only restrained myself from attending the function but also I advised many others not to attend for the very reason that the recitation of holy Bhagavata is being performed by men who have no access in this great scripture in which only the liberated persons, who are freed from all pretentious religiosities, can take part. The Mayavadins specially have no right to discuss Srimad-Bhagavatam Puranam for the only reason that they are aspiring after liberation (Moksa Vanohha). And Sripada Sankaracarya because He was the incarnation of Sankara, very carefully avoided to make any commentation on the holy Bhagavatam. Sripada Sankaracarya preached His Mayavada philosophy for bewidering the atheist class of men in order to confound them to become more and more atheist and thus suffer perpetually within the threefold miserable conditions of the material nature. But because He was great devotee at heart He dared not to commit sacrilege by unauthorized commentation on the Bhagavatam for He knew it well that a person who aspires after Mukti or merge one's identity in the impersonal feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is debarred from the benefit of Srimad-Bhagavatam. If you read Srimad-Bhagavatam from the beginning (which is absolutely necessary for a serious student) you will find what is spoken there in the 2nd sloka of the 1st chapter of the 1st Canto. It is clearly stated there that mundane religiosities, economic development, sense gratification and ultimately a frustrated man's desire to merge in the impersonal feature of Godhead and all similar other things are completely thrown away from the transcendental literature of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Sripada Sridhara Swami the most authorized commentator on the Bhagavatam has said that by the prefix of "PRA" in the sloka the desire of liberation (Moksa Vanohha) is also stopped herewith. A person who is not a pure Vaisnava cannot understand Srimad-Bhagavatam. A mayavadi may pretend to become a so-called Vaisnava but because he cherishes at heart to merge into the Supreme, he is unable to develop the devotional cult which is a necessary qualification for understanding Srimad-Bhagavatam. And to qualify the Mayavadis and other common men who indulge in the mental speculative transactions, Srimad-Bhagavatam gives them instructions from the 1st to the 9th canto about the transcendental nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Unfortunately the cheap and unscrupulous professional readers of the Bhagavata or the Mayavadi misleaders in the garb of a renouncer indulge in the highest topic of Srimad-Bhagavatam described in the Rasa Panca Adhya. A person who is compact in mundane thought of material enjoyment will certainly be indulging in playing with poison if anyone, devoid of transcendental realisation playfully deals with the transcendental pastimes of Lord Sri Krishna. Some friends who attended your Bhagavata week have told me how the pastimes of Lord Krishna was being wrongly interpreted in your organization on the pretext of saving Krishna from being an immoral personality. To save these foolish audiences in future Maharaja Pariksit had already asked Sripada Sukadeva Goswami to clear the Rasaleela activities of Lord Sri Krishna. The transcendental nature of Rasa Lila does not require to be apologised by any Mayavadi or mundane moralist. The Lila is what it is. Srila Vyasadeva never desired that in future the real purpose of the Rasa Lila had to be explained by some mundane scholar with poor fund of knowledge. It does not require to be changed a bit but the only thing required in this connection is to qualify oneself in the matter of undergoing a strict spiritual training to realise the same transcendentally from the right sources. In order to keep the Rasalila activities of the Lord intact Srila Sukadeva Goswami has already explained the matter in the Bhagavata 10th canto chapter 33 and slokas 29 to 39. I shall request you to go through them with special reference to the slokas Nos. 30,34 and 39.

In the sloka No.30 it is forbidden that a mundane person should not indulge in hearing Rasalila or one should not hear Rasalila from a mundane person. In your organization both the audience and the lecturer are mundane persons and their indulgence in the matter of Rasalila out of sheer foolishness will result in imitating Rudra who swallowed up an ocean of poison. There is nothing immorality in the transcendental activities of the lord neither it requires to be defended by any immoral man because simply by remembering the holy name of Krishna or by serving His lotus feet one can at once become a liberated person. (Bhag. 10.33.34) Besides that the result of reading or hearing the Rasalila in the devotional mood is stated (Bhag. 30.33.39) to become culminated in complete disappearance of the devotee's lust disease in the heart. Persons who are not pure devotees and must have therefore an impure heart full with dirty things of mundane affairs will not only try to defend Rasalila by interpretations or decry the dealings but also shall be ruined as by drinking poison a man goes to hell.

I shall request you therefore not to mislead the people in general under the garb of religiosity and indulge in the transcendental pastimes of the Lord known by the name Rasa Panca Adhya. This society stands to rectify all these anomalies in the name of religion and I shall ask your good sense to join hands with us to stop all these nonsense. India's culture of spiritual value has an unique position and it has to be learnt by the human society in right earnest from the right sources. As an Indian and a man of good sense with practical business-brain you should not at least indulge in such organization under the influence of unauthorized person. Instead of indulging in the organization of such unauthorized persons you may kindly learn the science from the authority and make your life enlightened and attain success of the boon of human form of life. The League of Devotees is an organized effort to render this service to the human society without any pretentious conventions. We are publishing one paper of the name Back to Godhead to educate people in the right direction and I am sending herewith one pamphlet in which the opinions of several respectable gentlemen are inserted as to how they are being appreciated.

It is our duty to defend the cause of "Bhagavata" either by request or by legal action according to necessity and I hope you will understand us in our most responsible task. Awaiting your early reply and thanking you in anticipation,

 

Yours faithfully,

A. C. B.

[livingentity]

The Mayavadi philosophers even they do not follow Sankaracarya because their philosophy itself is offensive. Sankaracarya has accepted Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but the Mayavadis take Krishna as a great personality only. That is their misfortune. On account of successive offensive attacks on the Supreme Person. So therefore the subsequent result of Mayavadi philosophy, on account of their rigidity to this misleading philosophy, they cannot make progress. Besides that, as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita, the Personal Feature of Krishna is very difficult to be understood by the non-devotee class of men. So the Mayavadi philosophers are, as a class, non-devotees. Naturally they are misled almost in all occasions. But some of them were extraordinary to come out and accept Krishna's personality. This is explained by Arjuna also in the Bhagavad-gita.

[Vaishnava_das108]

One of the main problems of "Mayavada philosophy" is that it has crept insidiously into every religious system, and has been the subject of so much hybridization that it is sometimes no longer possible to tell the difference between a "new vein" and the original Mayavada as propounded by Adi Sankara.

 

To this effect, we must be clear what we are trying to discuss. Are we trying to discuss the original Mayavada of Sankara, or the neo-Vedanta rubbish propounded by charlatans such as Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Ramana "Maharishi," Aurobindo, Sai Baba, et al?

[Guest guest]

to understand the reason for Sankara doing what he did,

a historical perspective is needed.

 

at the time Buddhism was dominant in India, So Sankara

as an incarnation of Mahadeva on instructions from

the lord taught his philosophy of advaita.

 

this philosphy was almost identical to what the Buddhists

were teaching and believed.

 

the purpose was to bring the dominance of Buddhism to an end

by preaching buddhism in a system that was based on

the Vedic systen, Sankara was able to rid india of

Buddhism and re empower the Vedic path.

 

Next Came Madhva, he initiated the next step, preaching Dvaita, insisiting that there is not a Oneness,

but a duality, this was also on the inspiration of Bhagavan to bring the populace gradually to full acceptance

of the original Vedic religion that had been lost

due to the influence of Kali yuga.

 

after Madhva, the Vaisnava Acharya's continued to

expound on the nature of the absolute truth,

culminating in the teachings and life of Sri Chaitnya,

and his followers.

[livingentity]

Mayavada philosophy taught by Sripada Sankaracarya (incarnation of Lord Siva) is an imaginary explanation of the Vedas. And as shiva states - Sankaracarya had no choice but to teach this as he was ordered by Lord Krishna to do so and is at no fault but those who follow this philosophy are doomed.

 

It is clouded Buddhism - basically the philosophy of Buddhism is repeated in Mayavadi philosophy of impersonalism but Mayavadi claims to be directed by Vedic conclusions. Mayavadi philosophy was "manufactured" in order to mislead atheists.

 

"Sometimes I teach Mayavadi philosophy for those who are engrossed in the mode of ignorance. But if a person in the mode of goodness happens to hear this Mayavadi philosophy, he falls down, for when teaching Mayavadi philosophy, I say that the living entity and the Supreme Lord are one and the same," Lord Siva.

 

Prabhupada warns us many many times to beware of this Mayavadi philosophy - to avoid this poison.

 

 

[livingentity]

Excerpt of a letter from Srila Prabhupada to Jayananda dated 9/29/67:

 

"The mayavadi sannyasi considers himself as God, this concept of life develops under illusion. When a person fails to become the Lord of the universe it is like the sly fox who attempts to taste grapes and failing to do so says the grapes are sour. The mayavadi sannyasins are frustrated beings in their attempt to enjoy the world, therefore they say the world is fake or the grapes are sour, the world is not false, Krishna is the supreme truth and the world is His energy therefore the energy of the supreme truth cannot be false; but we must know that this energy is inferior to His spiritual energy. As there are hairs and nails on the body and sometimes we separate these parts from the body similarly when the the material energy is separated from the service of the Lord it is inferior energy. Inferior energy is not false but temporary. The same temporary energy when surcharged with Krishna Consciousness it transforms into supreme energy by the supreme will. By this will any energy can be transformed into another just like electronic energy in a refrigerator or in a heater, to an ordinary layman, he sees cold and hot but to an electrician, he sees electricity. So when one is engaged in the service of the Lord that person is already in the spiritual energy, and a sannyasi and the real purpose of a sannyasi is to transform himself from the inferior to the superior, spiritual energy. If your consciousness is absorbed in Krishna you are always a sannyasi."

[livingentity]

I am wondering why - with all the vedic evidence to the contrary are there still those who follow the Mayavadi philosophy?

[dhaa]

"...the Mayavadis take Krishna as a great personality only..."

------------

 

does anyone know if guru nanak and the rest of the sikh gurus are mayavadis? coz from what i understand of sikhism, nanak calls his 'one true god' wahe guru formless and he respects krsna but doesnt accept krsna as the 'one true god' wahe guru

 

to me this looks similar to the mayavadi 'saguna brahman' theory where their definition of saguna brahman is basically 'personal god w/ form' who they respect but ultimatley reject as in the sikh case if my understaing of it is correct

[Vaishnava_das108]

Yes Iknow all of this. My question was rather simple. "LivingEntity" wants to engage in a discussion about how to defeat Mayavada philosophy.

 

I am simply asking if we are talking about the Mayavada philosophy as founded by Adi Sankara, or are we discussing the hybrid forms?

[livingentity]

If I am not mistaken Prabhupada was speaking of Sankara and that is what I had in mind for the discussion. The hybrid forms could also be discussed if anyone wants but right now I prefer to stick to Adi Sankara. The most important thing is to learn to identify and be able to avoid this philosophy.

 

I ask the help of the devotees here because I am not qualified to recognize this philosophy in all it's forms and thought that it might be helpful to others also.

[Guest guest]

surely to understand the love of unity the truth about the living krisna within us all we must cease from this constant thought apon form and finite things to dwell only on krisnas lotus feet is to be immersed in the beauty of life itself without hinderance or sorrow

 

the true heart of light

[theist]

Yes the form of Krishna's lotus feet. From them the brahmajyoti(formless spiritual light) emanates. Not the other way around.

[theist]

Sri Isopanishad Mantra 16

 

TRANSLATION

O my Lord, O primeval philosopher, maintainer of the universe, O regulating principle, destination of the pure devotees, well-wisher of the progenitors of mankind, please remove the effulgence of Your transcendental rays so that I can see Your form of bliss. You are the eternal Supreme Personality of Godhead, like unto the sun, as am I.

 

PURPORT

The sun and its rays are one and the same qualitatively. Similarly, the Lord and the living entities are one and the same in quality. The sun is one, but the molecules of the sun's rays are innumerable. The sun's rays constitute part of the sun, and the sun and its rays conjointly constitute the complete sun. Within the sun itself resides the sun-god, and similarly within the supreme spiritual planet, Goloka Vrndävana, from which the brahmajyoti effulgence is emanating, the Lord enjoys His eternal pastimes, as verified in the Brahma-samhitä (5.29):

cintämaëi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-våkña-

lakñävåteñu surabhér abhipälayantam

lakñmé-sahasra-çata-sambhrama-sevyamänaà

govindam ädi-puruñaà tam ahaà bhajämi

 

I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, the first progenitor, who is tending the cows fulfilling all desires in abodes filled with spiritual gems and surrounded by millions of wish-fulfilling trees. He is always served with great reverence and affection by hundreds of thousands of Laksmis, or goddesses of fortune.

 

The brahmajyoti is described in the Brahma-samhitä as the rays emanating from that supreme spiritual planet, Goloka Vrndävana, just as the sun's rays emanate from the sun globe. Until one surpasses the glare of the brahmajyoti, one cannot receive information of the land of the Lord. The impersonalist philosophers, blinded as they are by the dazzling brahmajyoti, can realize neither the factual abode of the Lord nor His transcendental form. Limited by their poor fund of knowledge, such impersonalist thinkers cannot understand the all-blissful transcendental form of Lord Krsna. In this prayer, therefore, Sri Isopaniñad petitions the Lord to remove the effulgent rays of the brahmajyoti so that the pure devotee can see His all-blissful transcendental form.

 

By realizing the impersonal brahmajyoti, one experiences the auspicious aspect of the Supreme, and by realizing the Paramätmä, or all-pervading feature of the Supreme, one experiences an even more auspicious enlightenment. But by meeting the Personality of Godhead Himself face to face, the devotee experiences the most auspicious feature of the Supreme. Since He is addressed as the primeval philosopher and maintainer and well-wisher of the universe, the Supreme Truth cannot be impersonal. This is the verdict of Sri Isopanishad. The word püñan (maintainer) is especially significant, for although the Lord maintains all beings, He specifically maintains His devotees. After surpassing the impersonal brahmajyoti and seeing the personal aspect of the Lord and His most auspicious eternal form, the devotee realizes the Absolute Truth in full.

 

In his Bhagavat-sandarbha, Srila Jiva Gosvämi states: The complete conception of the Absolute Truth is realized in the Personality of Godhead because He is almighty and possesses full transcendental potencies. The full potency of the Absolute Truth is not realized in the brahmajyoti; therefore Brahman realization is only partial realization of the Personality of Godhead. O learned sages, the first syllable of the word bhagavän (bha) has two meanings: the first is one who fully maintains, and the second is guardian. The second syllable (ga) means guide, leader or creator. The syllable vän indicates that every being lives in Him and that He also lives in every being. In other words, the transcendental sound bhagavän represents infinite knowledge, potency, energy, opulence, strength and influence all without a tinge of material inebriety.

 

The Lord fully maintains His unalloyed devotees, and He guides them progressively on the path toward devotional perfection. As the leader of His devotees, He ultimately awards the desired results of devotional service by giving Himself to them. The devotees of the Lord see the Lord eye to eye by His causeless mercy; thus the Lord helps His devotees reach the supermost spiritual planet, Goloka Vrndävana. Being the creator, He can bestow all necessary qualifications upon His devotees so that they can ultimately reach Him. The Lord is the cause of all causes. In other words, since there is nothing that caused Him, He is the original cause. Consequently He enjoys His own Self by manifesting His own internal potency. The external potency is not exactly manifested by Him, for He expands Himself as the puruñas, and it is in these forms that He maintains the features of the material manifestation. By such expansions, He creates, maintains and annihilates the cosmic manifestation.

 

The living entities are also differentiated expansions of the Lord's Self, and because some of them desire to be lords and imitate the Supreme Lord, He allows them to enter into the cosmic creation with the option to fully utilize their propensity to lord it over nature. Because of the presence of His parts and parcels, the living entities, the entire phenomenal world is stirred into action and reaction. Thus the living entities are given full facilities to lord it over material nature, but the ultimate controller is the Lord Himself in His plenary feature as Paramätmä, the Supersoul, who is one of the puruñas.

 

Thus there is a gulf of difference between the living entity (ätmä) and the controlling Lord (Paramätmä), the soul and the Supersoul. Paramätmä is the controller, and the ätmä is the controlled; therefore they are in different categories. Because the Paramätmä fully cooperates with the ätmä, He is known as the constant companion of the living being.

 

The all-pervading feature of the Lord which exists in all circumstances of waking and sleeping as well as in potential states and from which the jiva-sakti (living force) is generated as both conditioned and liberated souls is known as Brahman. Since the Lord is the origin of both Paramätmä and Brahman, He is the origin of all living entities and all else that exists. One who knows this engages himself at once in the devotional service of the Lord. Such a pure and fully cognizant devotee of the Lord is fully attached to Him in heart and soul, and whenever such a devotee assembles with similar devotees, they have no engagement but the glorification of the Lord's transcendental activities. Those who are not as perfect as the pure devotees namely, those who have realized only the Brahman or Paramätmä features of the Lord cannot appreciate the activities of the perfect devotees. The Lord always helps the pure devotees by imparting necessary knowledge within their hearts, and thus out of His special favor He dissipates all the darkness of ignorance. The speculative philosophers and yogis cannot imagine this, because they more or less depend on their own strength. As stated in the Katha Upanishad (1.2.23), the Lord can be known only by those whom He favors, and not by anyone else. Such special favors are bestowed upon His pure devotees only. Sri Isopaniñad thus points to the favor of the Lord, which is beyond the purview of the brahmajyoti.

[Guest guest]

As stated in the Katha Upanishad (1.2.23), the Lord can be known only by those whom He favors, and not by anyone else. Such special favors are bestowed upon His pure devotees only. Sri Isopaniñad thus points to the favor of the Lord, which is beyond the purview of the brahmajyoti.

 

...take the essence...SP letter to Krsnadasa 1972

 

Yes, the Lord awards liberation as if it were of less significance than a door prize given at a party to the least significant guest, however many devotees with whom I have come into contact with have shared with me some recount of their Lords special favor awarded uonto them by which they have come to know Him. This does not seem to coincide with the popular conception of "pure devotee", which makes its incedence or appearance among you to seem to be much rarer than it actually is according to this statement that I am quoting.

 

 

[LimitlessLight]

I would suggest you reread the upanishads you have somewhere along the lines been led astray this devotion to a thought form is not the absolute wisdom of a yogi to dwell on any concept is to lose our original nature wich is the krisna conciousness you cant seem to understand it is not a matter of realizing some personal form of god this is false doctrine created by egoistic minds that cant concieve of an ultimate that doesnt need and desire worship i would go as far as to say it is ludicrouse and somewhat repugnant for people to sit around serving this illusive krisna.

ain soph

[theist]

and take your chances. We'll agree to disagree then. Enjoy your nonexistence.

[LimitlessLight]

Please forgive me if i was a bit harsh it is just that there is so much falsity going on in respect to religion and religios practices it just seems that people just want to feel good and that the end all is with this supreme personality, as a servant it is kinda silly on some levels for the children to serve the parent like a lord it makes absolutely no sense and in the long run cannot be the actual state of the universe.

[livingentity]

1. Mayavada philosophy tries to designate the Lord as contaminated by a material body when He accept forms of incarnation.

 

2. Mayavada philosophy tries to tell us that when we become Brahman realized, we become one with the Supreme, then all our activities stop.

 

3. Mayavada philosophy tries to tell us that to stop activity is the highest perfection.

 

4. Mayavadi philosophy tries to tell us that Lord Krishna is an ordinary living entity.

 

5. Mayavada tries to tell us that everything becomes one and that there is no distinction between the knower, the knowable and knowledge.

 

6. Mayavadi philosophers try to tell us that simply by cultivation of knowledge by mental speculation, one can be liberated from the condition of material bondage.

 

7. Mayavadi philosophers try to tell us that we have to imagine the form of the Lord.

 

8. Mayavadi philosophers try to tell us that since everthing is God, the personality of Krsna is finished.

 

9. Mayavada tries to tell us that the Absolute Truth has no specific qualities.

 

and much more...............

 

 

[Guest guest]

could you pls include the source and the corresponding philosophers who make these statements.

hare krishna.

[theist]

I am curious guest. Is there something that you dispute in Livingentities post? If so what number? It seems pretty straight forward and noncontroversial to me.

[livingentity]

mayavadi's try to pass these off as true. We know from the authorized scriptures that is not the case. Prabhupada has helped us to identify these in His teachings and instructions to help us to avoid. There are more that I cannot recall right now.

[livingentity]

"You have asked the question, "What is the difference between a Mayavadi philosopher and a Krishna Conscious person?" The answer is that the Mayavadi philosopher has only imperfect knowledge of God, whereas the Krishna Conscious person can understand Krishna fully. The example is given that a person may know about the sunlight, but that does not mean that he knows about the Sun God within the Sun planet. Within the Sun there is a Sun God, named Vivaswan, and his body and the bodies of the other inhabitants are made of fire. It is the heat from these fiery bodies that gives warmth and light to this universe. So if someone knows something about the sunlight, it does not mean that he has knowledge about Vivaswan. Similarly, from Krishna's Spiritual Body there is the emanation of the Brahma effulgence, but even if they are able to merge into this effulgence emanating from Krishna's Body, are able to merge into this effulgence emanating from Krishna's Body, that does not give them perfect knowledge of the Source of everything. This Source is Sri Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So both the Mayavadi philosopher and the Krishna Conscious person is seeking spiritual advancement, but the Krishna Conscious man is higher because he is going to the Source of everything, including the Brahma effulgence. I hope you will understand this nicely."

 

 

[LimitlessLight]

You are obviosly the owner of incomplete knowledge this bramhajyoti you speak of is the living Krisna within all appearance and the realization of the divine within all is the ultimate reality no sage would dispute this but I think you might lol.

many blessings

[Guest guest]

no dispute in that post. I was just curious to learn which mayavada philosophers make those statements so that we can avoid them. From a bird's eye view of any philosophy, we can't get its gist and some pre-learned notions about them might help understand them better.