Gaura vani - the message of Gaura and SB Svami Prabhupad

[anadi]

I am amazed to see such a deep siddhanta.

All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Jagat prabhu!

 

 

Discussing doesn't necessarily mean understanding. We always say that the Holy Name Form and pastimes are touchstones. They do not require understanding to exercise a powerful transcendental effect.

 

Somehow, those rules change when it comes to Radha katha, at least in some circles.

 

My opinion is that, qualified or unqualified, we should discuss, enjoy and try to understand Radha katha. Dwell on it, in other words. It is the central core of Mahaprabhu's religion. If you shut Radha out, you may as well take another path. If it is a question of qualification, I have a secret: You'll never be qualified.

 

What does it all mean? Try to understand: if you say "incomprehensible, avoid," you show lack of sraddha. Without sraddha, how are nistha, asakti, ruchi, bhava, etc., possible?

 

Some people say that raganuga bhakti only comes after bhava has been attained through vidhi marga. This is a complete travesty of Rupa Goswami's teachings.

 

 

Krsna Himself cannot fully comprehend Radha, nor His attraction to Her. Neither does She Herself understand the full extent of Her own powers. Fortunately, many devoted girlfriends are there to reassure and strengthen Her as needed, otherwise where would bhakti be and what would become of us? Love knows NO boundaries and follows it's own laws which themselves cannot be defined, except perhaps temporarily by lovers in love. Goloka Vrndavan is the magical mystical world of Radha's divine love -- everything and everyone is of Her hladini potency, under the ultimate control of Radhika and Her girlfriends, including Krsna's very body. Those overly concerned with His 'godness' will never gain access there, for that Gopinath belongs only to Radharani and leaves His "godness" at Her lotus feet, freely [even proudly!] admitting to all that He is continually defeated by Her love and devotion. That Krsna is the Beloved of all Vrndavan. The Supreme Heroine and Her most magnificent Hero, but their pastimes and the arena itself, along with all the participants, remain part-and-parcel of and subservient to HER, entangled as one in Her love.

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Shiva prabhu. Yes, of course bhakti can only come from bhakti and begets only bhakti. The pure devotee cannot help but spread bhakti by his or her presence, whether preaching and service are involved or not. The greatest expression of service attitude is love as we know, transcending all material attachments. Devotional service can never be considered material and emphasis on externalities, at the expense of nurturing personal inner committment, can actually prove highly detrimental as we have all seen. The politics of religion are not for aspiring devotees, unless there is no choice. Love demands freedom in every respect.

 

My concerns are with the troops in their muddy trenches and lonely foxholes, not the generals and whatever business they apparently must engage in. Certainly we have heard enough of the need to surrender everything to some guru or other, but little emphasis on our relationships with and appreciation for each other. Really, what I have to share with the devotees is quite basic and very similar to the message of Lord Jesus Christ: "What is done unto the least of these, you do unto me." Our God may indeed be seen as the Supreme Enjoyer, however His greatest enjoyment lies in glorifying and serving His devotees. Krsna rewards each of us according to our degree of surrender, attracted only by the devotion involved rather than any supposed service. All He wants is Radha! Our role is to bring Them together, somehow or other, and that's also the desire of Sri Guru. More Radha = more satisfaction, simple as that. Krsna is always eager to assist in our service of His Most Beloved Gopi and becomes immediately available for that purpose to anyone whose sole desire lies in pleasing Sri Radha.

 

The devotees are very dear to Her, like children in a way, and she remains deeply indebted to those more concerned for them than with their own self-interest, including personal so-called 'advancement'. Pure devotees radiate bhakti and gurus help us dovetail ourselves in Krsna-conscious or God-centered activities, but Radha as the devotional side of the Supreme Personality is readily accessible everywhere at all times through everyone. We need only develop the proper attitude and perspective in our relationships with each other, which includes those not so easily identifiable as devotees. We must become miners of bhakti, starting with our own hardened hearts. Lord Caitanya has specially empowered the Holy Names to be our most effective tools, adaptable to all circumstances, we just have to learn how to use Them right and with the purest motivation.

 

 

wow, cool.

 

At the same time we should be aware that the

way to increase our qualification for the transcendental

entrance into the eternal realm is through the

service and association of the doorkeeper,

the qualified representative who has already

established that connection, that is the process,

the only way to ascend to the transcendental

realm is that way, by our own effort

we cannot, it is closed to us.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

you guyz need to gradually ascend to the higher

realm, by your posts I can understand where you are at,

you need some direction.

 

When Jagat says that we should hear about Radha,

He misunderstands what I have been saying, there is a difference between hearing the pastimes, and being

obsessed by the madhurya lila, that is for those who

are actually in that position, you do not

gain entrance there by any other way then

by first understanding the higher reality

from the inner perspective, the perspective

of Radha.

 

By your posts i can see that you do not have that vision,

you are absorbed in the external, the incomplete

conception.

 

you need to understand things from a higher reality,

until then your assertions lack true realization.

 

Sanatana goswami in his Brhad-bhagavatamrtam

shows us the way, The title of that book is

translated as the Great nectar of the Bhagavatam,

as it is considered to be the condensed nectar of all

the knowledge of the Bhagavata Purana.

 

there are two stories, in one we find sage Narada,

he finds a conditioned soul, and guides him on

the path of Bhakti, elevating him from plane of consciousness to higher and higher planes.

 

From earth, to siddhaloka, Vaikuntha,Ayodhya, Dwaraka,

and at each place even though the jiva is associating with the personality of godhead(at Vaikuntha and above)

he is still not content,still he feels something missing.

 

eventually Narada brings him into Vrndavana, where he is tranformed into a cowherd boy, Krishna hugs him in ecstacy and then faints, and the story ends with the new Gopa leaving with the cowherd boys for intimate instruction.

 

this is the condensed nectar of the Bhagavatam,

the thing to understand about Vraja lila,

before one can fully understand madhurya lila,

and Radha dasyam.

 

You must understand that Radha and Krishna are one person

and two forms.

 

As Rupa Goswami prays ,that his love for Krishna

becomes exactly like that of a young boy for

a young girl, we should also try and realize

the rasa of Vraja is meant to be understood

on that internal level.

 

[Guest guest]

Methinks perhaps you were not present when Srila Prabhupada told us that "every bramacari should fall in love with Radharani"...no matter, it's on tape somewhere. Of course, one must somehow posess the necessary greed(lobha) to wholly absorb themselves at all costs...the spiritual master is said to resemble a desire tree, is he not? Many approach with various motives and not all seek the same from him. Nor are all personal relationships with the Supreme Personality identical, particularly in terms of intimacy.

 

You pays your money and takes your choice, but to judge another's path is certainly a dangerous thing for one's own. Lord Caitanya has clearly stated that the Holy Names contain all of Krsna's potencies. Full access is made available by the causeless mercy of His Divine Grace, Sri Guru. Srila Sridhara Maharaja advised us to "become builders, not destroyers, of others' faith". Hopefully a few may grasp something of value in my posts, even if not appreciating the personal experiences I persist in foolishly attempting to share.

 

Compassion and empathy need not wait for 'higher' realizations, neither should one's vision of their guru be confined to his body or any one personality. "Simultaneously-one-and-different" affects every aspect of reality, being Absolute, not only externals. Srila Prabhupada always emphasized approaching the compassionate side of God, since She remains easily accessible to us all. Scriptures can be utilized to define, refine and ultimately confine those whose tendency is towards religiousity. Prabhupada also warned us about that...

[Guest guest]

also Srila prabhupada warned against sahajiaism,

thinking that you have attained a position in

madhurya rasa when in fact it is fantasy

of the mind.

 

These are real things, involving real experience,

the cheaters take these things and cheapen them,

in the desire for fame.

 

They pretend to an advanced state of love,imitating

the things they hear of the gopis love for Radha Krishna,

they pretend to know the reality, when all they

have is a delusion.

 

that is why one has to be carefull of those with

pretensions of the gopis,manjaris, and such.

 

the real guru does not do that, knowing

the reality of the situation ,knowing the reality

of Radha dasyam, and the reality of the shastric

descriptions.

 

the pretender will speak constantly of madhurya rasa,

and pretend to the emotions of the gopis, the real guru

does not, did Srila Prabhupada ever go on and on

about his feelings of gopi bhava ?

no.

 

that is the realm of the pretender.

[Guest guest]

 

also Srila prabhupada warned against sahajiaism,

thinking that you have attained a position in

madhurya rasa when in fact it is fantasy

of the mind.

 

These are real things, involving real experience,

the cheaters take these things and cheapen them,

in the desire for fame.

 

They pretend to an advanced state of love,imitating

the things they hear of the gopis love for Radha Krishna,

they pretend to know the reality, when all they

have is a delusion.

 

that is why one has to be carefull of those with

pretensions of the gopis,manjaris, and such.

 

the real guru does not do that, knowing

the reality of the situation ,knowing the reality

of Radha dasyam, and the reality of the shastric

descriptions.

 

the pretender will speak constantly of madhurya rasa,

and pretend to the emotions of the gopis, the real guru

does not, did Srila Prabhupada ever go on and on

about his feelings of gopi bhava ?

no.

 

that is the realm of the pretender.

 

 

 

Still pretty quick on the trigger finger there, pardner...Anyway, thought the 'pretentious guru pretender' thing was pretty much cleared up, but it does appear to be somewhat of an obsession for many, I must admit. Although devotional service(Radha) is both the means and the end, some may be confused between the two in relation to their personal position. Others, of course, have absolutely no interest or need to definine their position at all, knowing it to be the least of all!

 

Radha and everything/everyone related to Her can after all be worshipped and even personally appreciated without the need to immediately acquire some role or identity within Her lilas. Actually, nothing exists separately from Her, in one way or another. Aparadha on the other hand will ruin everything and eventually leave one spiritually blind. Better, I think, to take the lowest position and always try to see the best in others, which means the devotion in devotees -- again Radha. I find that automatically encourages them, though it's best done in person, and that's basically the perspective I was trying to share.

 

These internet forums, especially when posters have never met face-to-face, can't help but come across impersonally to a great extent. Then there is the false ego's tendency to use everyone and everything as stepping stones to display itself as superior in some way...

[Guest guest]

 

yeah i agree, although Srila Prabhupada preached vigorously

against rascal guru's, simply inflating the egos

of their followers,and getting fame and wealth in

return.

 

this was his method, he didn't say ,oh, it's o.k.,

they do what they do, all paths lead to the same goal, etc, no, he warned against such perpretators in the guise

of gurus.

[anadi]

About the dangers you are right.

There is a safer place somewhere, you know it.

There where the pure devotees of the Lord praise His nama guna, rupa, lila, parikars...

 

Disciple means dicipline.

The disciple should accept the discipline which comes from guru, when he makes operation on the false ego of the disciple.

And when there is no guru, but only some pretenders, oh big problems. No guru, no bhakti.

<font color="purple"> And even if there is a sat guru,

where is the sat shisya? </font color>

A real disciple is even more rare than a real guru.

Gurudeva says that in the world the ones that practice sadhana bhakti are extremly rare.

Who attains the fruit of sadhana which is bhava?

And bhava is not in this world.

 

About the dangers you are right.

Still my opinion is that Jagat Prabhu writes wonderful things and therefor I present my dandavat to him and to you.

[Guest guest]

 

"...Still greater is Srimati Radharani's bhava, which is the only asana for Krsnacandra, Govinda.

Krsna always desires to be situated in Radharani's bhava.

Those who are overwhelmed by the moods of our sampradaya, thus performing this type of bhajana to Govinda, can attain the highest perfection very quickly..."

[Guest guest]

Sorry about all the bold. My typing mistake, I guess.

[anadi]

My concern presently lies with the relationships amongst devotees and the dovetailing of personal emotions, both being the realm of Srimati Radharani. If neither is of any interest to you, simply continue reposting scriptural quotes and the words of different gurus without any real personal input, no harm done (unless the're misused to beat on each other, a far too common occurence...).

 

 

I would have liked to say what you said.

It is so tasteful,

because the name of Radhika is there. <font color="blue"> And where is Radha, our wonderful Krsna is also. </font color>

Maybe I am biased but you know my gurudeva, whatever lecture gives, of any dry or complicated siddhanta, at the end comes to lila of krsna. And what is Krsna without Radhika? Oh, something like impersonal brahman, nisakti, not so much taste, the sweetest part is out.

 

Jaya Radhe!

All glories to the merciful guru and gauranga!

[Guest guest]

Your choice of quotes reveals your heart, prabhu, and your taste in devotional expression speaks for itself. Please do not take anything I've said as personal criticism, but encouragement instead. Haribol!

[anadi]

Thank you for your encouragement, and the nice words I do not deserve.

 

You are an advanced devotee, may the mercy of guru and gaura always poor on you.

Hare Krsna!