Guest guest Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 I am in india in present and as as Westerner I wil be in some way forever a tourist. However what i fail to understand is if cows are revered as being sacred to the Hindu then why are they not treated better. Sure in Indian cities the cow has a right to roam but they are never fed. The only food they get is from rubbish dumps. Hence most of the cows are skin and bone. This also seems to be true of the elephants ive seen. I didnt think it was possible to get a skinny elephant but you can in India. Yet people still sometimes say a little prayer or devotional offering when they see an elephant. How can you truly hold something in such high regard and treat it so badly? My explanation of the situation is that Hinduism in India is still being held as a traditional source of culture however is being eroded to a greater and greater extent by the influence of Western commercialism and capitalism. Hence the actual practice of revering say a cow is dieing out and all that is left is a respect which isnt actualised. Any other opinions on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 Material reasons for the problem - goes on and on and on. Spiritual reason is only real one.It is lack of God conciousness. Rest is illusion.Everything else does not matter. India has tons of interesting stuff going on at any given time.BTW,what are you doing over there?Just curcious...HiHi Anyway,you take care and God bless. See ya! Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anveshan Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 To my mind, nothing created is holy or unholy. Cow is not sacred or divine. If they are, the great Indian buffalo is sacred, the more peaceful and lovely goat is sacred...... Old India was an agro-pastoral community. Dairy products were the richest source of nutritients,the cow-dung and it's urine was the natural manure, the bullocks ploughed the land and for quite some time, the cow was the 'currency', a legal tender and a man's wealth and social status assessed on the basis of cattle head he owned. Cows were given in dowry. Slowly cows were considered holy and killing it a sin. I cannot see any other reason behind the 'cow' worship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 << I cannot see any other reason behind the 'cow' worship. Read the scriptures and you will find the reason. no need to speculate and say "nothing created is holy or unholy". If you aren't satisfied with the scriptures, keep your speculations to yourself without inducing them to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 According to you, anyone who is not satisfied with the scriptures should not talk. What is the logic (if any) behind your position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 people can talk of any illogical speculations they have unless it seems to induce in logical brains(who base them on scriptures). anyway, who said people have no right to go deep into the gutter along with others who speculate thinking gutter is not unholy /images/graemlins/smile.gif ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 "My explanation of the situation is that Hinduism in India is still being held as a traditional source of culture however is being eroded to a greater and greater extent by the influence of Western commercialism and capitalism. Hence the actual practice of revering say a cow is dieing out and all that is left is a respect which isnt actualised. Any other opinions on this? " Your analysis is correct. The other reason is invasion if islam in india. muslims deliberately kill cows to hurt hindu feeligns. many poor village people have cows, but not enough resources to take care of cows well. consequently their cows roam for food and others feed these cows according to their shraddhaa. there needs to be social org.s who take care of cows. there are some already, need more and efficient. also need donors for such org.s. thigns will change for good for sanatana dharma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 The reason is fairly obvious - if you look around you will see thousands of children, women and men as skinny as sticks, starving and begging for food and money. Now how can you expect a country and society that fails to provide basic nourishment for its human population to cater for the hunger of cows, no matter how holy they are deemed to be? This is in no way related to the "Muslim invasion" as suggested by the previous post.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 while in india some cows starve as some people do, in western counries cows are slaughtered in millions every day. is it any better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anveshan Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 "This is in no way related to the "Muslim invasion" as suggested by the previous post.............." You are absolutely correct. You go to the remote interiors. You will find human skeletons istead of humans with flesh and blood. Holy cows can eat grass at least. But these cattle on two legs can't. The 'higher' humans have seized their forefather's land, and all means of production is owned by the neo-Brahmins, an oligarchy of landlords, politicians and 'upper caste' scoundrels. The cow is thier Mata, cow is divine for them, and these dasyus, slaves, tilling 'their' land, building their palaces and tends their cattle, are less holy, nay, very mean. They cannot enter into the temples, cannot touch a Bhagawad Gita, draw water from the village wells. Hail to the holy cows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 Ahhh well you know just taking a nose about the country. See what all the fuss is about. Quite relaxing really even though its choatic. Havent seen much of the countryside though. mostly ive been staying in towns and citys. I think it takes a few trips to start to get under the skin of any country especialy one the size of india. But anyway from what i have seen Hinduism adds a great deal of social security. Everybody is peaceful and ameniable (although money is virtualy always a factor when youre a foreigner). However i do get the impression that given the capitalist influence of the West and the resultant rat race style society that follows that India is in a state of change. Certainly its producing well-educated people but they all leave and the country doesnt seem to be going forward. I think in responce to the question of cows 'reverence' or lack of it someone said to the effect of 'what do u expect when the people themselves are starving'. And this in many ways is exactly right. The poverty in India is extreme. I dont know what can be done to reverse the situation (1 billion people is hard to regulate) but i think India is in a bad way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priitaa Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 I have heard countless times in the past (ever since I became a devotee, really) that if only the people of India would eat the cow, they would not be starving. However, this is far from the truth. Even in America, we have discovered that it takes more grain to feed a cow than the meat gotten from the cow for those who eat her! Next, if one believes a cow also has a soul then this would help the understanding of not killing her, or any creature really. But that the cow is holy? Because Krishna said so, thats basically it. He loves cows, so we love cows. Oh, there are other reasons too, such as her milk feeds you as a child when your mother no longer can nurse you, so the cow then is like a mother; and the bull plows the fields so he is like father. Just because they are not materially so bright does not mean we should slit their throats. If we have a mentally retarded child we do not do so with them, thus mother cow and father bull have a right to their natual lifespan. Another reason people are suffering more in India than other countries is, as Prabhupada has explained, due to sinful activity and KNOWING it was sinful activity but doing it anyway. If they were to eat the cow that would not solve any real problems but increase them, since killing mother cow is terribly, highly karmic. Vedic literatures explain that we suffer one thousand fold for each hair on the body of each cow we kill, eat, etc. If one does not believe in karma they will brush this under the carpet, but if those of India eat her, horrid things start to happen, worse than now, thus time will prove otherwise. Hope this helps explain things a little. YS, Prtha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 Meat eating is also increasing in India(goats and chickens). Society has become so fallen it's hard to imagine.Corruption everywhere.All food stuff is adulterated.People have become evil and shudras are ruling.One devotee told me Indians are most confused people in today's world.Hypocrisy is also increasing.When people no longer offer food to God and enjoy eating meat of helpless creatures...mode of ignorance takes over(tamasic mode). Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priitaa Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 Yes, and I heard they have a McDonalds in India? And they wonder why they are suffering. Geesh, I mean, they have the Vedas. We had to find them, but they had them. Anyway, I hope we can all preach more and in time it will spread to India. Prabhupada left India because the India/n people did not want to hear and we did, but he also wanted us to help them return to pure Krisna consciouness (not to be confused with Hinduism). YS, Prtha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 Yes Prtha devi dasi ji. Krsna conciousness will change everything but are they willing to listen? Indians condemn America on one hand and on the other they themselves are obsessed with becoming so called "superpower".They superficially condemn cow killing.Reality is cows are treated bad there.People hit them with brick stones and while milking inject them with hormones causing horrible labor pain three times a day!India is also a supplier of beef to muslim countries.Many biscuits in the market contain cow fat.And they blame others for their problems.This hypocrisy is not going to stop.India has become hell where everyone is preying on one another.No human rights,then what to speak of poor cows? Srila Prabhupada said we should use this bad bargain for the highest good of all.I am stuck deep into illusion.After all this world is temporary and maya's trick. Hare Krsna.Please accept my humble dandvats at your lotus feet. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 One funny thing worth mentioning.Macdonald goers in India refuse to talk in hindi once inside...HiHi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 True that they don't lislten, but even if all don't, at least some will. Therefore we can't give up. After all, they didn't even listen to the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada. He had to come here for that, but he did not give up. Instead he created a round about plan where, as you said, they want to be like us. So if we become Krishna conscious, oddly enough, then they will also want to become Krishna conscious because we are into it. They will realize, Krishna consciousness is "cool." :-) And it is. Maybe if all the politics in the movement hadn't cropped up and gotten in our way we could have achieved this long ago. Though even in this case, we cannot give up. It will happen with or without us. I'd like to be part of it. Yes, I know the cows in India are horribly mistreated. It is sad, but all we can do is hope to eventually go full circle with active preaching as well as by our example, and in time the India/n's will start to take care of their cows as we take care of ours. Then all will be saved. It is Lord Caitanya's mission that Krishna consciousness will be practiced in every town and village on the entire globe, and therefore it WILL happen. We can either be part of the plan, or part of the problem. YS, Prtha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 One funny thing worth mentioning.Macdonald goers in India refuse to talk in hindi once inside...HiHi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul108 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 How do you know? Hare Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 How does who know what? YS, Prtha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I have personally seen.My friends also say so.Not always but 90% of the time they pretend they are americans. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 The indians have an image of Westerners being swarthe (spelling?) and sophisticated and then they meet travellers who are all scruffy bums with beards and bad breathe. The image doesnt seem to meet the reality. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priitaa Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Well, I'm not sure that's the reality either. I live in America and see all types. It's the land of varigatedness. Tho judging a book by its cover can be a mistake. Anyway, even if the travelers are bearded, scruffy and have bad breath (needing a dentist?), if they can afford that ticket over there, they sure 'aint' poor bums! ha The Americans go to India to renounce. The India/n's look to Ameircans to be materialistically smooth. -- Not on the same page. :-) YS, Prtha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul108 Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 I just wondered how does Guest know what language they speak in McDonalds? I know it's silly, but for all I know they could bark like dogs in McDonalds. Hare Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauracandra Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 It is unfortunate that cows aren't taken care of better in India. Part of the problem, in a general sense, is capitalism. I fully support capitalism as the best means of allocating resources, eliminating inefficiencies etc.... but the only way to have proper cow protection is to have inefficiencies. That is, in capitalism, it is easy to view cows like you do machinery, and try to squeeze as much out of them as possible. So you pump them full of hormones, put them in small areas, milk as much as possible, and then slaughter once they are no longer useful. The only solution is to create a market that consciously chooses not to be the most efficient. Perhaps something like the old airline regulations in the 1970s. Since deregulation prices for airlines have come down. But in the past, because of price controls, airlines could only get new customers by providing better service, since they couldn't lower prices to cutthroat rates. So perhaps set a price for milk that is suitable, and require all milk producers to sell at that rate. Then regulate the protection of cows. This way they can't just slash prices and drive competition away. True it isn't efficient, but it is humane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.