Sometimes I wish I never heard of Krishna...

[Guest guest]

It seems now that I realize all the things I am doing wrong with my life it's making me crazy. I'm too busy with starting a career, looking for a girlfriend, and keeping physically fit to waste my time addicted to these types of forums and reading vaisnava book after book. Why can't it be as simple as Christianity...just believe in Christ and that's it...none of this chanting..feeling like a rascal because you can't follow the 4 reg. principles...and believing all these mythological stories. If I go up to a person on the street and tell them God is blue person that rides around on a half-man half-bird creature, they'll just look at me like i'm crazy. Why do I need all this extra stress...so I can go back to Godhead? And what guarantee is there? None. Christians believe that they will go back to God. Muslims believe that they will go back to God. And so on...everyone thinks they know the way back to God. I Don't know, but I need a break. Now I now why many ISKCON devotees were too fallen and brainwashed to fit back in with normal society.

[anveshan]

All religions are man-made and the followers of it have twisted and turned, concocted and replaced sublim philosophies. They have even made an enlighted philosopher and social reformer, the great Gautama Buddha, an avatar. They have made pagans and heathens, kafirs and sudras out of men.

 

But read Krishna. A gem of a philosopher and spiritual leader you will see in him.

 

" Never was there a time when you or these

Chieftains and kings were existent Nor shall

Ever come a time when any of us will cease to exist" ((2:12)

 

" Only material forms, assumed by Soul,

Which is fathomless and eternal, come to an end.

So you must fight ever on without a qualm

Neither he who thinks he can kill the Soul

Nor he who thinks It is killed knows the truth

For It can neither kill nor be killed

One is never born nor dies at any time

Nor once he comes to be, ceases to be.

Unborn, immutable, eternal and ageless,

The Soul is not slain when the body is slain (2:18-20)

 

eapons can never cleave nor fire burn

Water drench nor wind dessicate the Soul(2:23)

 

Look upon joy and pain with an equal eye

May never the thought of loss or gain affect you

Let victory or defeat be the same to you

Thus you must, friend, fight on and when you do

No shadow of sin shall ever taint your life "(2:38)

 

"It is Nature which does all actions

But the fool egoist thinks he is the doer" (3:27)

 

"The senses are commendable; the mind

Is greater than the senses; greater still

Is intelligence and the greatest of all is HE" (3:42)

[Guest guest]

"Why can't it be as simple as Christianity...just believe in Christ and that's it...none of this chanting..feeling like a rascal because you can't follow the 4 reg. principles"

 

Then follow Christianity. Or Islam. Whatever is within your CAPACITY, do that. What more can be asked? Better to some way forward than not go forward at all.

[Guest guest]

To say that going on Gaudiya Vaishnava path is too difficult and it should be easier is just a cop-out. I'm sorry if I'm getting too confrontational here, but hear me out.

 

There are a billion Christians worldwide. There are over a billion Muslims. The billion or so Chinese and asians are influenced by Buddhism. There are also about a billion conventional Hindus.

 

What about Gaudiya Vaishnavism?

 

You have a nice amount in Bengal and Orissa. And there are several thousand worldwide due to various preaching movements. But FAR from a billion. That's because it's difficult. Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, after all. So finding Him will be VERY difficult. He only wants the best.

 

THere are parallels in the material world. We have so many sudras; laborers. But how many doctors? Very few. That's because being a doctor is very difficult. There are so many ways to get discouraged on that path. Difficult science classes, high cost of school, etc.

 

Similarly, among the Gaudiya Vaishnav faith, you see difficulties. Difficult principles to follow. Chanting maha-mantra. Chanting gayatri eventually. Doing service. And getting disenchanted after seeing so-called devotees fall down, or act in a way that even karmis would find reprehensible.

 

So ultimately, you have to believe in yourself that you can follow the four principles, and keep in good and pure association. Be careful of even those who claim to be devotees. Identify which ones are humble, you can learn from, and then you have good friendship in association, and sakhyam is one of the nine angas of bhakti. Association is important to be aware of, especially in the western countries.

 

Oh yes, and find a qualified guru.

[Guest guest]

"Then follow Christianity. Or Islam. Whatever is within your CAPACITY, do that."

 

But beware! koran says to convert non muslims or kill them.

. also says to convert the whole world.

do you like it?

 

If you try to do it in india now, the land of sanatana dharmis, you may loose your teeth, or even could get killed.

 

as long as you do not do it, never think of it,

you would be fine. if another fellow of your religion does it, it would be your responsibility to stop him/her.

if you cannot do it, then it might not be worth becoming a muslim. you do not want to be a hypocrat muslims who does not kill or convert but his money goes to sponsor terrorism.

 

it takes time to appreciate sanatana dharma.

 

 

[Guest guest]

hi guest, being Krishna conscious does not require

that you chant 16 rounds a day, or follow the 4

regulative principles, these things are for those

who desire rapid advancement,immersion in

transcendental consciousness.

 

What is Krishna consciousness ?

 

it is freeing the mind from delusion, and bringing about

a transcendental vision of the world, ultimately

ending in direct communion with God who is present within you.

 

this process you find disturbing or difficult is meant

for those who are desirous of complete immersion

in Sadhana Bhakti.

 

For you to become happy in this life ,that is not neccesary,

that is for the mahatmas ,the serious souls.

for you it is sufficient to read when you find the time,

and to associate when you find the time, there is

no loss or dimunition, it is all about gaining

wisdom and losing the misconceptions of ignorant

vision.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the wonderful advice, Shiva and everyone else. I guess my expectations were too high to start off with. I was trying to immerse myself in Krsna, sometimes even having daydreams of being with Him in Vrindavan. When I realized I couldn't, I got disappointed and frustrated. I think the best thing for me right now is to just take it slow, or what some might call "baby steps." Thanks once again.

[Guest guest]

Sometimes I agree. It is always easier to walk a path wherein I can be my own law giver. It would be so much easier to just eat what I want, get intoxicated if I feel like it, have indiscriminate sex life....yes, it would be much easier.

 

But one thing I've found to be true. Even when I seek to ignore Krsna, or think to replace Him ( as if that were ever possible), I end up far more miserable than ever.

 

It only seems easier...it is an illusion. We can't run from Krsna or His Laws. They always catch up. Far better to run to Him, than from Him.

 

At least, it is certainly more blissfull.

[livingentity]

BG 18. 36-37

 

"O best of the Bharatas, now please hear from Me about the three kinds of happiness which the conditioned soul enjoys, and by which he sometimes comes to the end of all distress. That which in the beginning may be just like poison but at the end is just like nectar and which awakens one to self-realization is said to be happiness in the mode of goodness."

 

Purport:

 

"In the pursuit of self-realization, one has to follow many rules and regulations to control the mind and the senses and to concentrate the mind on the self. All these procedures are very difficult, bitter like poison, but if one is successful in following the regulations and comes to the transcendental position, he begins to drink real nectar, and he enjoys life."

[debbie]

Dear Guest,

In a way I can understand your thoughts. I am rather new to this myself,as I have only been studying for the last six months.But,you know,even though I may be fallen in some areas,I feel Krishna knows and understands.Sure we are really busy in all the things we do in this material life, but still we have to make the time for God. If nothing else,set aside a little time in your day,just for Him. That may include chanting or reading the Bhagavad Gita,etc..I know sometimes it may even get overwhelming,it does for me sometimes,but take it slowly, and as you said take baby steps. I think it will be well worth your continued effort.I know even now, when things are up in question, I have a few friends,some from the forums,that I can openly discuss my questions, and this really helps. Even if you just post your feelings here, it sometimes help. Any number of the regulars are sure to help. Debbie

[stonehearted]

Dear guest,the things you seem to be worried about are, as has been pointed out so nicely by others, are not the essence of Krishna consciousness, nor even the most important practices. Lord Chaitanya explained 64 items of spiritual practice to Sanatana Goswami. The Lord also explained that, out of all those five were most powerful, most important: associating with devotees, chanting the holy names of Krishna, hearing about Krishna's philosophy and activities from scriptures like Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, and Sri Chaitanya-caritamrita, living in a holy place like Mathura or Vrindavana (or, if that's not possble, making our homes as Krishna centered as possible), and serving Krishna's Deity form with love and faith. Any combination of these, or even any one, is so powerful that it can deliver life's highest benediction. And of these, the best is chanting the holy names. So understand that all progress begins with understanding where you actually are and behaving on that basis. If you chant a little every day, read or hear about Krishna every day, begin offering your food to Krishna, simple things like these, you'll make progress.

 

Everything in Krishna consciousness is something we accept voluntarily, based on our understanding. It should not be imposed by anyone else. I have never, in over 33 years, said that I cannot eat meat, drink, smoke, etc. I just explain that I don't. It's a choice I made long ago and continue to make.

 

It's always helpful to find the company of steadfast devotees in whom you have confidence. They can encourage you to continue to make progress. And it's especially helpful to eventually find advanced devotees who can help you understand the secrets of spiritual life. Keep on truckin', pal, and don't look back.

[Guest guest]

Anyone who believes in me, even though he dies like anyone else,shall live again. He is given eternal life for believing in me and shall never parish.

[Guest guest]

"I'm too busy with starting a career,.......... "

 

So is everyone else. There are many devotess who are working in different companies etc..... no problem here. Great saintly kings in past use to manage their entire kingdom though they always remained faithful to Lord Krishna. Read bhagavad gita perhaps karma yoga will give you some idea as to how to manage your duties.

 

 

"Looking for a girlfriend,"

 

Even that doesn't matters Arjun and others also fell in love etc and Lord Krishna also advised them. Please remember the art of love making originates in india only. In our auyurveda we have one entire section devoted to revive lost sexual potential

 

"and keeping physically fit"

Ever heard of bhim or hanuman, two great devotees of Lord Hari. I doubt if even arnold shwaznekar is as fit as them.

 

"to waste my time addicted to these types of forums and reading vaisnava book after book"

 

Knowledge has no end man. Even science requires book after book.

 

Finally let me quote a verse from Gita to refute all your claims:

Though engaged in all kinds of activities, My devotee, under My protection, reaches the eternal and imperishable abode by My grace.

Chapter 18, Verse 56.

[I_love_krishna_]

I don't think you have grasped the very message of Gita.

 

I am not saying I have... I have not, but the message of Gita is to be in devotional service... that does not mean be like Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and dance every day in front of Krishna.

 

But, Do everything selflessly and helping others.. you will live more happily that way.

 

Bhagavath Gita is supposed to be a psychology course my friend, it is not supposed to be something that is going to stop you from solving your problems.

 

Look at Gandhi, He used Bhagavath Gita to help him achieve his goal.

 

For example, In bhagavath Gita , Krishna says "Karmanye.." I don't remember the exact verse.... please some one post here, but in that verse Krishna says "Do your duty and leave the result to me"

 

In this verse krishna is not telling you to quit your Job, but he is telling you to do your Job. In other words, he is telling you do your duty with concentration, do your job well with no doubts and with no thoughts of self pity or pity on others but do not expect your boss to be very happy with you. Do it because it is your duty and not for fame, more money or popularity, because such things take you away from your Job and leave you in failure , O bharata.

 

that is just one message from Gita. It is very logical, very understandable. If you have only desire on your result and you don't gain it , it will leave you in suffering.

 

But if you gain a good result, it will develop your ego which will get hurt later on.

 

The point is to be unattached and do your work. He also says if you can't concentrate on your work, concentrate on my words and me and take your chance.

 

It is doing your duty, krishna is helping you. He is not telling you to pray 24hours a day 7 days a week. He is not demanding prayer but saying develop that perfect man in you and live happily through the selfless action by completely being unattached to this world.

 

In my view, this is the real message of KC , it is not to pray , but to realize the very essence of that perfect self and that perfection is nothing else than krishna personified.

 

[Guest guest]

wat u must realise is, that we are all continually being given wat we want, even if this isnt wat we THINK we want... If u wish to return to krishna, u will, if u wish to stay tied to this world (like it seems u do) ull remain here until u realise otherwise... Krishna is graceful in that he gives us the choice /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Guest guest]

"Now I now why many ISKCON devotees were too fallen and brainwashed to fit back in with normal society. "

 

 

they were not brainwashed... they were fanatics, thinking that "krsna conscious" means "out of the world" or "against the world"

 

do your life, career, find a girlfriend etc. but please do not forget to chant hare krishna on regular basis

 

the next step could be to make the questions that now you are doing at friends like us, to a bona fide, vaishnava, spiritual master

[Guest guest]

Most religions impose extremely demanding rites and behaviour. It is important to learn to separate human-made rites and impositions, which often reflect the abuse of power of their human creators (often religious leaders) from the Will of G-d.

 

Never forget that G-d loves you unconditionally, and that it is impossible that G-d impose abusive impositions on his children. Any abusive imposition is man-made and should be denounced and eliminated. G-d will never impose any rite or behaviour that demeans you, that bends you or imposes submission. G-d has perfect self-esteem and does not need to debase others. G-d wishes us to grow and evolve, and not to humiliate us and make us feel unworthy.

 

Religious leaders have along the centuries imposed unreasonably excessive demands on us, for us to forget ourselves and for us to feel inferior and submissive. The purpose was to overpower the people. People who believe in their falsities are naive. You must learn to communicate directly with G-d.

 

[Myra]

 

Religion cannot save us. True religion lies in our hearts. It is the personal relationship with God. Religion only guides. I think why God allowed religion? It is becasue we all came from different directions and God is the Center. There are people that comes from the east and the west, north and the south. They are not taking the same path..but the same point of reference which is God. Regardless of what community you are in, it doesn't matter..as long as your God is the True God.

 

May the spirit of the Lord will cover you and will protect you from the doubts....

[Guest guest]

Narayanaya Namah!

 

Respect to all devotees of the Supreme Lord!

 

To the originator of this thread:

 

It is not difficult being a Vaishnava, as you may think.

You understand that you are eternal soul, a servant of the Lord. Realizing your natural position, always be surrendered unto Him. Just read Bhagavad Gita and try to follow its teachings. For something more specific, try to develop the qualities of a devotee mentioned in the 12th chapter.

Also, try to meditate for a while each day. Realization of your own and the Lord´s qualities will come gradually. Good Luck!

 

AUM TAT SAT

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna, thank you for the wonderful advice everyone. It's amazing looking back at my original post and seeing the confusion and sadness. As of right now, my outlook towards spiritual life is a lot better. I'm chanting, regularly going to the temple (not to mention Janmashtami yesterday!), and reading. I guess the thing that turned everything around is making some new devotee friends and just having someone to talk to, whether it be about spiritual or material stumbling blocks. Once againg, I'm so grateful to all of you. Haribol.

[Guest guest]

First, please allow me to explain that I have little knowledge. My words may not be right, but please understand my intent is to offend no one. If with my words I somehow do, I apologise.

 

I have been surfing many of the sites online, reading and learning little by little. My daughter also tutors me. It is due in part to her that I responded to this topic. I cannot discuss with her things I do not understand, so I am trying to understand. Of all the things I have read over tonight, it is your response that 'jumped' out to me.

 

"Do everything selflessly and help others....you will live more happy that way" If you could assist me in finding the verse/story you speak of when Krishna says 'Do your duty and leave the result to me' I would like to read it.

 

A basic truth is it not? In any religion. Basic truths are hard to get around. I do not disagree with this truth. I see her heart perform selfless ways of helping others. Does the message of Gita address the issue of service to others that know better but refuse to help themselves?

 

Im probably off the topic right now, I am sorry. If no one at all replies to me, reading your response touched me. For that I thank you.

[gHari]

Guest,

 

There is a nice analogy that explains that when we serve Krsna we automatically serve our families and everyone. We become ideal husbands, fathers, friends and neighbours. It is difficult to know what is the right thing to do, but with God in the center of our lives all other relationships and activities are perfected.

 

Just as if we try to pour water on the flowers or leaves of a plant, it does not help the plant, not even the leaves or flowers themselves. But if we pour water on the root, then all the leaves and flowers will flourish.

 

Jesus described this truth as "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all these things will be added unto you".

 

gHari

 

[gHari]

Bhagavad-gita verse 10 of the fifth chapter called Karma-Yoga (Action in Krsna Consciousness):<blockquote><center><font color="red">brahmaNy AdhAya karmANi

saGgaM tyaktvA karoti yaH

lipyate na sa pApena

padma-patram ivAmbhasA

</center>

brahmaNi--unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead; AdhAya--resigning; karmANi--all works; saGgam--attachment; tyaktvA--giving up; karoti--performs; yaH--who; lipyate--is affected; na--never; saH--he; pApena--by sin; padma-patram--a lotus leaf; iva--like; ambhasA--by the water.

</font>

One who performs his duty without attachment, surrendering the results unto the Supreme Lord, is unaffected by sinful action, as the lotus leaf is untouched by water.

 

PURPORT

Here brahmaNi means in KRSNa consciousness. The material world is a sum total manifestation of the three modes of material nature, technically called the pradhAna. The Vedic hymns sarvaM hy etad brahma (MANDUkya UpaniSad 2), tasmAd etad brahma nAma-rUpam annaM ca jAyate (MuNDaka UpaniSad 1.2.10), and, in the Bhagavad-gItA (14.3), mama yonir mahad brahma indicate that everything in the material world is a manifestation of Brahman; and although the effects are differently manifested, they are nondifferent from the cause. In the IzopaniSad it is said that everything is related to the Supreme Brahman, or KRSNa, and thus everything belongs to Him only. One who knows perfectly well that everything belongs to KRSNa, that He is the proprietor of everything and that, therefore, everything is engaged in the service of the Lord, naturally has nothing to do with the results of his activities, whether virtuous or sinful. Even one's material body, being a gift of the Lord for carrying out a particular type of action, can be engaged in KRSNa consciousness. It is then beyond contamination by sinful reactions, exactly as the lotus leaf, though remaining in the water, is not wet. The Lord also says in the GItA (3.30), mayi sarvANi karmANi sannyasya: "Resign all works unto Me [KRSNa]." The conclusion is that a person without KRSNa consciousness acts according to the concept of the material body and senses, but a person in KRSNa consciousness acts according to the knowledge that the body is the property of KRSNa and should therefore be engaged in the service of KRSNa.</blockquote>

Quite simply, Krsna consciousness means "always being conscious of God". We are Krsna conscious when we are conscious of Krsna, when we stop ignoring Him. If I am not conscious of a visitor in the room, I will neglect to offer him a seat and water and food. I may behave unseemingly; because I am not conscious that he is there.

 

Bhagavad-gita 6.30:<blockquote><center><font color=red>yo mAM pazyati sarvatra

sarvaM ca mayi pazyati

tasyAhaM na praNazyAmi

sa ca me na praNazyati

</center>

yaH--whoever; mAm--Me; pazyati--sees; sarvatra--everywhere; sarvam--everything; ca--and; mayi--in Me; pazyati--sees; tasya--for him; aham--I; na--not; praNazyAmi--am lost; saH--he; ca--also; me--to Me; na--nor; praNazyati--is lost.

</font>

For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me.

 

PURPORT

A person in KRSNa consciousness certainly sees Lord KRSNa everywhere, and he sees everything in KRSNa. Such a person may appear to see all separate manifestations of the material nature, but in each and every instance he is conscious of KRSNa, knowing that everything is a manifestation of KRSNa's energy. Nothing can exist without KRSNa, and KRSNa is the Lord of everything--this is the basic principle of KRSNa consciousness. KRSNa consciousness is the development of love of KRSNa--a position transcendental even to material liberation. At this stage of KRSNa consciousness, beyond self-realization, the devotee becomes one with KRSNa in the sense that KRSNa becomes everything for the devotee and the devotee becomes full in loving KRSNa. An intimate relationship between the Lord and the devotee then exists. In that stage, the living entity can never be annihilated, nor is the Personality of Godhead ever out of the sight of the devotee. To merge in KRSNa is spiritual annihilation. A devotee takes no such risk. It is stated in the Brahma-saMhitA (5.38):

<center>

premAJjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaH sadaiva hRdayeSu vilokayanti

yaM zyAmasundaram acintya-guNa-svarUpaM

govindam Adi-puruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi

</center>

"I worship the primeval Lord, Govinda, who is always seen by the devotee whose eyes are anointed with the pulp of love. He is seen in His eternal form of SyAmasundara, situated within the heart of the devotee."

 

At this stage, Lord KRSNa never disappears from the sight of the devotee, nor does the devotee ever lose sight of the Lord. In the case of a yogI who sees the Lord as ParamAtmA within the heart, the same applies. Such a yogI turns into a pure devotee and cannot bear to live for a moment without seeing the Lord within himself.</blockquote>

gHari

[Guest guest]

i can relate to your feelings on this. i don't know if you had read my piece under spiritual discusion regarding a comment i made to This book has changed my life.... i explained how i too felt overwhelmed by Krishna. this has changed my life and completley rearranged my priorities. it is overwhelming, but in the most beautifull ways. ask yourself is your life is better now or before Krishna. For me, it is a lot better. it's uncomfortable because it is all new to me, but it is better.take harbor in the name, continue to read and find devotees to shre expiriences with. all will work out...that's just what happens. but no, your not alnoe. none of us are. the whole opint of life is God..so everywhere you look, He is there. that's what is so great about it.

[Guest guest]

I love krishna said : "In bhagavath Gita , Krishna says "Karmanye.." I don't remember the exact verse.... please some one post here, but in that verse Krishna says "Do your duty and leave the result to me

 

I think this is the verse:

"karmany evadhikaras te

ma phalesu kadacana

ma karma-phala-hetur bhur

ma te sango 'stv akarmani"

 

"You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty. "

 

-loversoul-