mayavadi sikhs?

[dhaa]

some quotes that look like mayavada/sunyavada from sri guru grantha sahib available online at www.srigranth.org

 

u may be able to find quotes which look like they are calling krishna god but if my understanding of sikh philos is correct, when they use those names it refers to ekongkar wahe guru and not to nandanandana krishna

------------

 

p952 The supreme essence of reality has no shape or form. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p944 He has no form or color, shadow or illusion; O Nanak, realize the Shabad. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

 

 

p953 Rama wept when he was sent into exile, p954 and separated from Sita and Lakhshman....O Nanak, the whole world is suffering. He alone is victorious, who believes in the Lord`s Name. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p464 O Nanak, the Fearless Lord, the Formless Lord, the True Lord, is One....O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him. There are so many stories of Krishna, so many who reflect over the Vedas. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p7 So many winds, waters and fires; so many Krishnas and Shivas.....So many intuitive people, so many selfless servants. O Nanak, His limit has no limit! (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p5 Speak of Him continually, and remain absorbed in His Love...p6 The Gopis and Krishna speak...Many speak and try to describe Him...Many have spoken of Him over and over again, and have then arisen and departed. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p350 You created all beings, and You hold the world in Your Hands; what greatness is it to put a ring in the nose of the black cobra, as Krishna did? (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p73 Showering His Mercy, He has blended me into Himself....You are the Gopis, the milk-maids of Krishna; You are the sacred river Jamunaa; You are Krishna, the herdsman. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p174The Lord Himself created Krishna, O my Lord of the Universe; the Lord Himself is the milkmaids who seek Him. (Guru Ram Das)

 

p2 O Nanak, know this well: the True One Himself is All. He cannot be established, He cannot be created....The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi....there is only the One, the Giver of all souls. May I never forget Him! (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p599 He is within - see Him outside as well; there is no one, other than Him. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p350 Whose Husband are You? Who is Your wife? You are subtly diffused and pervading in all.....Proceeding on, he could not find its limits; what glory was obtained by killing Kansa, the king? (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p350 The blind, ten-headed Raavan had his heads cut off, but what greatness was obtained by killing him?...What Glories of Yours can be chanted? (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

 

p5 The praisers praise the Lord, but they do not obtain intuitive understanding (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

 

p465 The disciples play the music, and the gurus dance. They move their feet and roll their heads. The dust flies and falls upon their hair. Beholding them, the people laugh, and then go home. They beat the drums for the sake of bread. They throw themselves upon the ground. They sing of the milk-maids, they sing of the Krishnas. They sing of Sitas, and Ramas and kings. The Lord is fearless and formless; His Name is True (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

 

p470 In the Jujar Veda, Kaan Krishna of the Yaadva tribe seduced Chandraavali by force....He brought the Elysian Tree for his milk-maid, and revelled in Brindaaban. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

 

p470 The four Vedas each claim to be true...Reading and studying them, four doctrines are found. (Guru Nanak)

 

p1142 Nanak has studied the Simritees and the Vedas. (Guru Arjan Dev)

 

 

p237 The Realm of Shiva shall also perish. (Guru Arjan Dev)

 

 

p1035 For endless eons, there was only utter darkness....There was no day or night, no moon or sun; God sat in primal, profound Samaadhi....There was no Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva. No one was seen, except the One Lord.....There were no Gopis, no Krishna, no cows or cowherds. There were no tantras, no mantras and no hypocrisy; no one played the flute.... p1036 There was no love or devotion, no Shiva or Shakti - no energy or matter. There were no Vedas, Korans or Bibles, no Simritees or Shaastras. When He so willed, He created the world....He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva; He fostered enticement and attachment to Maya. (Guru Nanak Dev)

p1037 By His Hukam, He created His ten incarnations and the uncounted and infinite gods and devils.

p1041 One who receives the Guru`s Teachings, and remains aloof and detached, obtains a place in the home [ the void,refer to p1037- ] of the Fearless Lord....Through the Guru`s Teachings, Krishna lifted up the mountain of Govardhan. Through the Guru`s Teachings, Rama floated stones across the ocean. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

 

p1037 In the Primal Void, the Infinite Lord assumed His Power. He Himself exercised His Creative Power, and He gazes upon His creation; from the Primal Void, He formed the Void. From this Primal Void, He fashioned air and water.....Your Light pervades fire, water and souls; Your Power rests in the Primal Void. From this Primal Void, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva issued forth. This Primal Void is pervasive throughout all the ages. That humble being who contemplates this state is perfect; meeting with him, doubt is dispelled....The Lord of this Primal Void is unseen, infinite and immaculate; He is absorbed in the Primal Trance of Deep Meditation....From this Primal Void, came the four sources of creation, and the power of speech...They were created from the Void, and they will merge into the Void. [ refer: p1035They issue forth from You, and merge again into You. (Guru Nanak Dev) ] p1038 From the Primal Void, the ten incarnations welled up....From the True Guru, contemplative meditation is obtained. And then, one dwells with the True Lord in His celestial home, the Primal State of Absorption in Deepest Samaadhi. The three qualities are pervasive; the Lord dwells in His home, the fourth state....p1039Above them is the Immaculate Lord, the One Universal Creator; they are lovingly absorbed in the profound, primal state of Samaadhi. p1040In the True Place, the Formless Lord abides. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p1236 He is the Highest of the high, Immaculate and Detached, in Nirvaanaa. (12, Sarang, Guru Arjan Dev)

 

p291 When God was without attributes, in absolute poise, then where was mind and where was matter - where was Shiva and Shakti? (3, Gaurhee Sukhmanee, Guru Arjan Dev)

 

When there was only the Pure, Formless Lord in Nirvaanaa, then who was honored, and who was dishonored? (9, Gaurhee Sukhmanee, Guru Arjan Dev)

 

 

 

p599 The essence, the immaculate Lord, the Light of all - I am He and He is me - there is no difference between us. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p944 He Himself is all-knowing and all-seeing. By perfect destiny, we merge in Him. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p351 When one`s light blends into the Divine Light, then the desire for Maya is ended. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p21 When one`s light merges into the Light, and one`s intuitive consciousness is joined with the Intuitive Consciousness, The Lord abides within the mind of the Gurmukh, who merges in the Lord`s Union, through the Guru. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p22 Give up your selfishness, and you shall find peace; like water mingling with water, you shall merge in absorption. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p1035 They issue forth from You, and merge again into You. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p1037 By His Command we come, and by His command we merge into Him again. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p1037 Whoever obeys the Hukam of His Command, is robed with honor in the Court of the Lord; united with the Truth, He merges in the Lord. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p1040 In the Fear of God, in detachment, one intuitively merges into the Lord. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p649 The True Guru is pervading the homes within; He Himself blends them with the Lord. (11, Sorith, Guru Amar Das

 

p633 O Nanak, he merges with the Lord of the Universe, like water with water. (19, Sorith, Guru Teg Bahadur

 

p27 One whom the Lord merges into Himself is merged in the Shabad, and remains so merged. No one merges with Him through the love of duality; over and over again, they come and go in reincarnation. By personally experiencing the Personality of the Guru, one`s own personality is uplifted, and one`s light merges into the Light. (Guru Amar Das)

 

p97 His light merges into the Light, and he finds peace. O servant Nanak, this is all the Extension of the One. (Guru Arjan Dev)

 

p111 The Messenger of Death does not draw near those who meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. Night and day, they are attuned to His Love; they are pleasing to the Lord. My God merges with them, and unites them in Union. His light merges and is absorbed into the Light, when he hears and merges in the Truth. (Guru Amar Das)

 

p128 The Immaculate Naam, the Name of the Lord, abides deep within their hearts; their light merges into the Light. They obtain the nine treasures of the wealth of the Naam. Rising above the three qualities, they merge into the Lord. (Guru Amar Das)

 

p205 celestial bliss is attained in an instant, and doubt is dispelled. Meeting Him, my light merges in the Light. Says Nanak, the Guru has dispelled my doubt; in this way, my essence merges into God`s essence. (Guru Arjan Dev)

 

p883 Says Nanak, the Guru has destroyed my sense of `mine and yours`. Like water with water, I am blended with God. (14, Raamkalee, Guru Arjan Dev

p1156Says Nanak, my essence has merged in the Essence of the Lord. (Guru Arjan Dev)

 

 

 

p1037 By His Hukam, He created His ten incarnations and the uncounted and infinite gods and devils. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p1038 From the Primal Void, the ten incarnations welled up. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p445 The Brass Age of Dwaapar Yuga came, and people wandered in doubt. The Lord created the Gopis and Krishna. (Guru Ram Das)

 

p1022 The Ganges, the Jamunaa where Krishna played, Kaydar Naat`h, Benares, Kanchivaram, Puri, Dwaarkaa, Ganga Saagar where the Ganges empties into the ocean, Trivaynee where the three rivers come together, and the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, are all merged in the Lord`s Being (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p1235Many Shivas sit in deep meditation. p1236Many beings take incarnation. Many Indras stand at the Lord`s Door.....Many miraculous Elysian trees, many Krishnas playing the flute. (Guru Arjan Dev)

p1263 Bhaageerat`h the penitent brought the Ganges down, and Shiva established Kaydaar.

Krishna grazed cows in Kaashi; through the humble servant of the Lord, these places became famous. (8, Malaar, Guru Ram Das)

 

 

p1156 He created millions of incarnations of Vishnu. (Guru Arjan Dev)

 

p1403 You created countless Brahmas and Vishnus; their minds were intoxicated with emotional attachment. (13, Sava-yay (praise) of Guru Ram Das, Ga-yand)

 

p455 Millions of incarnations of Vishnu and Shiva, with matted hair yearn for You, O Merciful Lord; their minds and bodies are filled with infinite longing. (Guru Arjan Dev)

 

p1156He created and destroyed millions of Shivas. (Guru Arjan Dev)

 

p504He created air, water and fire, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva - the whole creation. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

 

 

p1136 Setting aside all other days, it is said that the Lord [govinda] was born on the eighth lunar day. Deluded and confused by doubt, the mortal practices falsehood. The Lord is beyond birth and death. You prepare sweet treats and feed them to your stone god. God is not born, and He does not die, you foolish, faithless cynic! You sing lullabyes to your stone god - this is the source of all your mistakes. Let that mouth be burnt, which says that our Lord and Master is subject to birth. He is not born, and He does not die; He does not come and go in reincarnation. The God of Nanak is pervading and permeating everywhere. (Guru Arjan Dev)

 

p1038God is compassionate; He does not come or go in reincarnation....The world is a reflection of Him; He has no father or mother. He has not acquired any sister or brother. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

 

 

 

p1153 Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are diseased; the whole world is diseased. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p908 Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are manifestations of the One God. He Himself is the Doer of deeds. (Guru Nanak Dev)

 

p518 Shiva and Vishnu, and their incarnations, chant the Lord`s Praise with their mouths, (Guru Arjan Dev)

 

p559 The wise one, Shiva, remains absorbed in himself, but he is engrossed in dark passions and excessive egotism. Vishnu is always busy reincarnating himself - who will save the world? (Guru Amar Das)

 

p735 Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva suffer from the disease of the three gunas - the three qualities; they do their deeds in egotism. The poor fools do not remember the One who created them; this understanding of the Lord is only obtained by those who become Gurmukh. (Guru Ram Das)

 

p852 Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva wander in the three qualities, while their egotism and desire increase. (Guru Amar Das)

 

p909 The three forms of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are trapped in the three qualities, lost in confusion. (Guru Amar Das)

[dhaa]

from http://www.info-sikh.com/VVPage2.html dasam granth by guru gobind singh:

 

The Lord Akal creates millions of Krishna, annihilates them and recreates them. Some hang stones as gods around their necks, while others erroneously call Mahesh 'God' I have discarded all these false religions and am of the firm view that He who is the creator of the Universe, is the only Lord. Everyone is caught in the noose of Death, no Rama or prophet can escape from it. All of them who made grand claims of being Avtars of God died repentant. Why doest not thou, O, hapless being seek the shelter of the One Lord. (15th swayya)

 

I do not seek the blessings of Ganesh, I do not worship Krishna or Vishnu. I do not recognise them. I am engrossed in the loving devotion of my Lord alone. The Lord of Death, Akal, is my refuge and He saves me is all tribulations. (Krishan Avtar, 434)

 

.......

 

The Lord first created Khanda, the double edged sword and then his manifest world. Having created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, He created the entire play of Kudrat (manifest world). He created the oceans, mountains, earth and sky which stands above, unsupported by any pillars. He created both gods(deities) and demons and then created polemic. It was You who created Durga so as to destroy the demons. Rama also took strength from you to kill Ravan with his arrow. Krishan also got strength from You and thus threw down Kansa by his hair. Many great deities and ascetics underwent hard austerities, but none could fathom thy greatness

 

http://www.bsingh.dsl.pipex.com/khalsa/news56.htm dasam granth

guru gobind singh: Say if Krishan were the Ocean of Mercy, why should the hunter's arrow have struck him? If he can save other families, why did he destroy his own? Say why did he who called himself the eternal and the unconceived, enter into the womb of Devaki? Why did he who had no father or mother call Vasudev his father?" (33 Swayyas, no.14.) "Why call Shiv God and why speak of Brahma as God? God is not Ram Chander, Krishan, or Vishnu who you suppose to be lords of the world. Sukhdev, Parasar, and Vyas erred in abandoning the One God and worshipping many gods. All have set up false religions; I in every way believe that there is but One God. (33 Swayyas, no.15)

 

dasam granth http://www.geocities.com/jeetkanwar/dgaud.htm

 

He created millions of kind Indras; He has created numerous Brahmas, Vishnus, Ramas, Krishnas and Mohammads; without devotion none is acceptable to Him. 38.

(He has created) numerous seas, mountains and Sumeras; numerous Machhas, Katchhas and Shehnagas; numerous gods etc and princes; numerous incarnations of Krishnas and Vishnus 39 Numerous Indras sweep at His door; several are the Brahmas and Vedas; there are numerous trivial forms of Shiva; there are numerous handsome Ramas and Krishnas. 40.

 

http://www.geocities.com/jeetkanwar/dgaue.htm

 

If God is 'Narayan' then every thing living in water (Narayan), like Kutchh, Muchh and octopus etc will also become 'God'; like wise lotus is also 'lotus in navel' or 'God'. If Krishna is Gujjar (grazer of herds) then all gujjars will become Krishnas. If He is Rikhikesh then many have assumed this name also. If His Name is Madhav then black bee is also called madhav; if His Name is Kanahya then spider is also called kanahya; if He killed Kans then messenger of death should also be called 'killer of Kans'. (Meaning thereby that by adopting Godly names one can't become God.) Fools speak out foolishly but can't go deep and understand the spirit, hence do not worship Him alone Who preserves all. 74

[dhaa]

sggs:

 

p 727 The True Creator Lord is diffused into His creation; He is not just the dark-skinned Krishna of legends. ||2|| (10, Tilang, Saint Kabir)

 

 

p 1374 Kabeer, one is known to have been touched by the Guru, only when his emotional attachment and physical illnesses are eradicated. (13, Salok, Saint Kabir)

 

He is not burned by pleasure or pain, and so he becomes the Lord Himself. ||189|| (13, Salok, Saint Kabir)

 

Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord`s Name, `Raam`. This is something to consider. (14, Salok, Saint Kabir)

 

Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190|| (14, Salok, Saint Kabir)

 

Kabeer, use the word `Raam`, only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction. (15, Salok, Saint Kabir)

 

One `Raam` is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191|| (15, Salok, Saint Kabir)

 

[Vaishnava_das108]

Thank you for all of this evidence apparently from Sikh scriptures. I will have to check them out and do research. You have given me a good starting point, thank you again.

[dhaa]

yogi bhajan lecture archive

 

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/articles.nsf/9dee2aa6164e1d9b87256671004e06c7/628ace0771cb4e9d87256671004e4684

yogi bhajan: When I become zero, the One comes to my aid. It becomes ten. It is called the Law of Completion. Law of Completion is when you became Krishna, Kar-ish-na, you become zero. Krishna means zero. Ra-e-ma, Rama comes. Or you become Rama, Ra-e-ma, Rama means one. Krishna follows. Those words which say, "Lord Krishna, Lord Rama," doesn't mean anything. Actually thing sound current is, Krishna where entire universe to become shuniaa, zero, and Rama where one has created the sun and the moon. One created the duality and where the creation has come to zero. These are the two words

 

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/articles.nsf/9dee2aa6164e1d9b87256671004e06c7/e1b0fb4a4f0dae2c87256671004e4656!OpenDocument&Highlight=0

yogi bhajan: you are a human yogi. Things must shake you -- accept them. Accept negativity. Accept loneliness. Accept....you are all afraid of...everybody tells me, "I am lonely." Oh God, you cannot relax, not being lonely. The only thing which today cannot be taught by any wise man is the Parthahar. When totality can be brought into absolutely defined zero, to shunya, the entire concept of Krishna, the Lord of the Gopis and God of Incarnation and he has already been incarnated 10 times. He's going to be eleven times, and everybody.....Forget about all that. The word is "Krishna." Kar-ish-un. "Kar" means the creativeness. The entire dialogue and mono-dialogue, or multi-dialogue of the creative universe. Out of that, when it comes to shuniaa, it comes to zero, that is Krishna

 

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/articles.nsf/9dee2aa6164e1d9b87256671004e06c7/3fef23cc095608c487256671004e4676!OpenDocument&Highlight=0

yogi bhajan: But the rhythmic Naad of the Shabd Guru engages and synchronizes the flow of thoughts. The pulse of the atoms of sound produce a pattern of energy that structures the space of the mind to link with the Shabd. This produces an active stillness, a shuniya, a zero-point in consciousness. In that stillness you are like an instrument perfectly played in an orchestra. Your instrument merges into the larger tune

 

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/articles.nsf/9dee2aa6164e1d9b87256671004e06c7/0143eacf30a5144487256671004e466b!OpenDocument&Highlight=0

yogi bhajan: There is a Hindu God called Krishna. Actually the word is "Kar a shuna". "Kar" means creation, "a" means happen, "shuna" means where zero happens, where everything comes to stillness. You will ask about this Hindu God Ram. Word is "Ra e ma". One who created the moon and the sun

 

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/articles.nsf/9dee2aa6164e1d9b87256671004e06c7/eee59db2cea5da4b87256671004e4698!OpenDocument&Highlight=0

yogi bhajan: ...If you come to the sophistication of knowing what life is, you will understand the life has to come, you have to come, to shuniaa. You have to come to "Krishna." Kaar-i-shuniaa. Where the whole Prakirtee becomes zero. Krishna. "Hari Krishna Hari Krishna Hari Krishna." Do you understand what you are saying?

[Guest guest]

yes, kabir and sikhsim believe god has no form.

they reject moorti pooja.

sikhs also do not believe in vedic rituals.

 

kabir did not start a sampradaya, but his fan's started later. it is known ans bhakta sampradaya.

all the kabir's follors use Bhakta as their last name.

 

Similalry most jains, rather many jains, use Jain as their last name.

 

 

[Vaishnava_das108]

OK Thanks, but I wouldn't take stuff from Yogi Bhajan very seriously since he is not a very good representative of Sikhism.