Meeting and Separation

anadi · March 20, 2003

of the Conjugal Couple .

The rays of Meeting and Separation

pouring on the rupanuga sampradaya

Preamble

[sripad Padmanabha Maharaja:] There is a topic that requires proper reconciliation and correct understanding.

Certain persons have written a paper in which they suggest that there is a difference of opinion between Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja and Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, regarding the relative spiritual exaltation in the moods of separation and meeting in conjugal love. These persons give a quotation from Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami ’s book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, from the conversation between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Sri Ramananda Raya.

I am reading Srila BV Svami Prabhupada's first quote, as presented in the above-mentioned paper:

"Upon hearing of these transcendental activities, Lord Caitanya said, ‘O My dear Ramananda, what you have explained regarding the transcendental pastimes of Sri Radha and Krsna is perfectly correct. Yet there is something more I would like to hear from you.' 'It is very difficult for me to express anything beyond this,'

Raya Ramananda replied to Caitanya Mahaprabhu,

'but I can say only that there is an emotional activity called prema-vilasa-vivarta, which I may try to explain. But I don’t know whether you would be happy to hear it.’"

The authors of the paper then quote Srila Prabhupada's short comment there:

"In prema-vilasa there are two kinds of emotional activities—separation and meeting.

That transcendental separation is so acute that it is actually more ecstatic than meeting."

With this quotation the paper has attempted to assert that Srila BV Svami Prabhupada is saying that separation (vipralambha)

is on a higher level and brings more ecstasy than the meeting (sambhoga) between Radha and Krsna.

"When the lover and the beloved meet, they are called yukta (connected).

Previous to their meeting, they are called ayukta (not connected).

Whether connected or not connected, the ecstatic emotion arising due to not being able to embrace and kiss each other as desired is called vipralambha. This vipralambha helps nourish emotions at the time of meeting. " (Purport to Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 23.60)

" On the sambhoga platform, the dresses are unlimited, and on the vipralambha they are four in number.

The ecstasy exhibited before the lover and beloved meet,

the ecstasy experienced between them after meeting,

the state of mind experienced by not meeting, and

the state of mind experienced after meeting fearing separation

are called vipralambha.

That vipralambha serves as a nourishing element for future meetings." (Srila BV Svami Prabhupada's explanation in Teachings of Lord Caitanya)

anadi · March 21, 2003

The paper then presents the idea that Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja has said the opposite,

and that he is incorrect.

I am now reading their quotations

from an English translation of Srila Maharaja's Hindi talks during Vraja Mandala Parikrama:

"Those who have not scrutinizingly studied the scripture Srimad Bhagavatam, and who have not conscientiously comprehended Sri Caitanya-caritamrta,

and who have not properly understood books like Bhakti-rasamrita-sindu, Brhad-bhagavamrta, Ujjvala-nilamani, Krsna-karnamrta

and other literatures of this nature,

consider vipralambha, the mood of separation,

to be the highest level of ecstasy.

Our previous acaryas have also considered vipralambha to be an exalted state; but after much reflection they perceived vipralambha as a pre-requisite to highlight and more fully embellish and amplify the ecstasy of reunion.

If there would be only vipralambha for all of eternity, what would be its use ? What would be its service? Vipralambha is necessary only because it intensifies the ecstatic feelings of reunion."

That is one quotation.

Then the paper quoted one more short statement from Srila Maharaja's Vraja Mandala Parikrama book:

"So you can see that the mood of vipralambha is much more complex than the way you envisioned it before.

Those who still persist in advocating that vipralambha is the highest

do not yet have the spiritual maturity and understanding to realize that it is not possible for anything to be more elevated than Srimati Radharani and Krsna’s ecstatic loving exchanges in reuniting (samboga)."

anadi · March 24, 2003

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] I have clarified this topic in the above-mentioned quotes – separation is only needed because it serves to increase the enjoyment of meeting; it helps in that.

Still, I want to explain this further:

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has written that in madanakya-mahabhava there is the experience

of the highest intensity of separation in meeting and the experience

of the highest intensity of meeting in separation.

All moods, in their extreme exaltation, are present in Srimati Radhika in her madanakya-mahabhava.

Also, in intense separation (divya-viraha), Krsna reveals Himself totally.

In that mood of separation the gopis are fully absorbed in Krsna,

in all His qualities and in all His pastimes.

Yet, at the same time, they want to embrace Krsna right then and there.

They do not want to burn in the fire of separation.

The gopis are not satisfied in their mood of separation ; they cannot be satisfied.

Their desire is this: "Krsna should come directly in front of us – face to face – so

that He can put His very soft and gentle lotus feet on our breasts."

They lament that because their breasts are very hard,

they must place His lotus feet there with the utmost gentle care.

To whose lotus feet are they referring?

The lotus feet of that Krsna, which even Brahma, Sri Narada Rsi, Sri Sukadeva Gosvami, and Sri Bhismadeva cannot bring in their trance of meditation.

It is those feet that the gopis wanted to place on their breasts.

yat te sujata-caranamburuham stanesu

bhitah sanaih priya dadhimahi karkasesu

tenatavim atasi tad vyathate na kim svit

kurpadibhir bhramati dhir bhavad-ayusam nah

["O dearly beloved! Your lotus feet are so soft that we place them gently on our breasts, fearing that Your feet will be hurt. Our life rests only in You. Our minds, therefore, are filled with anxiety that Your tender feet might be wounded by pebbles as You roam about on the forest path." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.31.19)]

The gopis lament in this connection, "Oh, what shall we do?

Krsna likes that His feet are placed on our breasts, but we are afraid we are hurting Him."

The gopis don't want to meditate on Krsna .

They desire this: "Krsna should come out from within our hearts so that we can embrace Him.

anadi · March 25, 2003

Some persons say that vipralambha is higher than sambhoga. Only a neutral person can say this. Such neutral persons alone can say that it is good if the gopis only see Krsna in their trance. Such persons can say that although the gopis want to embrace Krsna, it is better if Krsna's association comes to them by their mood of separation. It is better that they always meeting Him in their mood of separation, as they close their eyes and remember Him in their hearts.

Such neutral persons think that the gopis' separation is very good, and such persons are like Akrura and Kamsa, who have no desire for the meeting of Radha and Krsna. Akrura can say, "Take Krsna from Vraja. Let the Vrajavasis feel separation; they should be always feeling separation." And Kamsa will be very happy to say, "Bring Krsna here to Mathura, and I will kill Him there."

These two persons can speak in this way, but no Vrajavasi wants Krsna to be separated from Vraja .

Not even a plant, creeper, or bird of Vrndavana wants Krsna to leave Vraja . No one there wants the Vrajavasis to feel separation. None of them think, "Separation is so high." And what to speak of the gopis? What to speak of Lalita and Visakha, and Rupa Manjari and Rati Manjari?

March 25, 2003

**Some persons say that vipralambha is higher than sambhoga. Only a neutral person can say this.

Srila Rupa Goswami write this.

anadi · March 25, 2003

Such neutral persons alone can say that

it is good if the gopis

only see Krsna in their trance.

Such persons can say that

although the gopis want to embrace Krsna,

it is better if Krsna's association comes to them

by their mood of separation.

But to understand the message one should be anukul (in a favorable disposition) anukulyena krsna anu shilanam.

March 25, 2003

**Some persons say that vipralambha is higher than sambhoga. Only a neutral person can say this.

Srila Rupa Goswami write this.

Please give the quotation, it would be very intersting.

anadi · March 26, 2003

Those who are confidential servants of Srimati Radhika,

and who have more affection for Her than for Krsna,

never desire Her separation from Krsna.

In fact, Vrajavasis like Lalita and Visakha, and palya-dasis like Rupa Manjari, Rati Manjari, and Kamala Manjari,

cannot tolerate the separation of Radhika from Krsna at all.

Do you know who is Kamala Manjari?

In her sadhaka form she (he) is Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

In his song, Sri Krsna Virahe, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes: "I cannot bear to see the feelings of separation of Radhika":

sri krsna-virahe, radhikara dasa, ami to sahite nari

yugala milana, sukerea karana, jivana chadite pari

["I am absolutely unable to tolerate Sri Radhika's pitiable condition when She is suffering in separation from Sri Krsna, but I am fully prepared to immediately give up my life for the sake of Their happy reunion. "]

anadi · March 26, 2003

ratha sthira kaila, age na kare gamana

animisa-netre kare nrtya darasana

The car came to a complete standstill and remained immobile while Lord Jagannatha, with unblinking eyes , watched the dancing of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

ei-mata tandava-nrtya kaila kata-ksana

bhava-visese prabhura pravesila mana

After performing His devastating dance for some time, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mind entered into a mood of ecstatic love .

tandava-nrtya chadi' svarupere ajna dila

hrdaya janiya svarupa gaite lagila

After abandoning the dancing, the Lord ordered Svarupa Damodara to sing. Understanding His mind, Svarupa Damodara began to sing as follows.

"sei ta parana-natha painu

yaha lagi' madana-dahane jhuri' genu"

"Now I have gained the Lord of My life, in the absence of whom I was being burned by Cupid and was withering away."

Purport by SBV Svami Prabhupada

This song refers to Srimati Radharani's meeting with Krsna at the holy place of Kuruksetra, where Lord Sri Krsna and His brother and sister came to visit when there was a solar eclipse. It is a song of separation from Krsna. When Radharani met Krsna at Kuruksetra, She remembered His intimate association in Vrndavana, and She thought, "Now I have gained the Lord of my life. In His absence I was being burned by the arrow of Cupid, and thus I was withering away.

Now I have My life again ."

That vipralambha serves as a nourishing element for future meetings. " (Srila BV Svami Prabhupada's explanation in Teachings of Lord Caitanya)

anadi · March 26, 2003

Srila BV Narayana Maharaja

In that mood of separation the gopis are fully absorbed in Krsna,

in all His qualities and in all His pastimes.

Yet, at the same time, they want to embrace Krsna right then and there.

They do not want to burn in the fire of separation.

The gopis are not satisfied in their mood of separation ; they cannot be satisfied.

Their desire is this: "Krsna should come directly in front of us ,face to face ,so

that He can put His very soft and gentle lotus feet on our breasts ."

They lament that because their breasts are very hard,

they must place His lotus feet there with the utmost gentle care.

Purport by SBV Svami Prabhupada (Madhya 13.136)

The gopis were never interested in karma-yoga, jnana-yoga, or dhyana-yoga. They were simply interested in bhakti-yoga. Unless they were forced, they never liked to meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord. Rather, they preferred to take the lotus feet of the Lord and place them on their breasts . Sometimes they regretted that their breasts were so hard, fearing that Krsna might not be very pleased to keep His soft lotus feet there. When those lotus feet were pricked by the grains of sand in the Vrndavana pasturing ground, the gopis were pained and began to cry.

anadi · March 28, 2003

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura is weeping as he writes,

"When Radhika laments in divyon-mada,

in the transcendental madness of separation from Krsna

she displayed in Brahmara-gita

(Radhika speaking with a bumblebee) and at other times,

I cannot bear it.

I don’t want Krsna to leave Radhika.

He should always remain with Her in Vraja."

He continues,

"I cannot tolerate the separation of Radhika for Krsna,

but I can easily give up my life if

that will help to bring Krsna to Her."

This is the mood of the palya-dasis of Radhika.

Spoken by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

anadi · March 31, 2003

In another song, called Vrsabhanu-Suta, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes:

radha-paksa chadi, je jana se jana

je bhave se bhave thake

ami to Radhika-paksa pati sada

kabhu nahi heri ta-ke

["I am always in Radhika's entourage and I never look upon the faces of those who leave Her, no matter who they are or what is their mood."]

In other words, he is saying, "If someone thinks that the separation mood of Srimati Radhika is very good, I don’t want to see that person’s face! It would be a sinful act to see the face of such a person!"

Only Mathuravasis – only for those who are not able to appreciate vraja lila – like Akrura and Kamsa will want Radhika and Krsna to be separated. A rupanuga Vaisnava understands that everyone in Vraja is acting in such a way as to increase the happiness of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna. Uddhava went to Vraja, realized the separation of the gopis to a certain extent, and then returned to Krsna and said, "You must go at once; otherwise, if You do not go, Nanda and Yasoda, all the gopis, and all the cows and calves will soon be dead. You must go there."

Even Baladeva and Rohini-maiya told Krsna, "Why don't you go to Vraja? All will die if You do not go." Baladeva told Him, "If You do not go there, then I must go; and I will tell them that You are coming very soon."

Thus, all the Vrajavasis want Krsna to be with the gopis and with His father and mother in Vraja.

March 31, 2003

***"If someone thinks that the separation mood of Srimati Radhika is very good ...

Srila Rupa Gosvami write this.

anadi · March 31, 2003

How intense is the love of the munis in Tapaloka.

The opinion of Pipalayana Muni (Brihad Bhagavatamrita)

101. Of the nine ways of devotional service, remembering the Lord is the best, for it engages the mind, which is the best of the senses.

102. The mind is able, without stopping, and as much as it wishes, to give the Lord pure love, the most confidential of spiritual gifts.

103-5. Pure love,

which is the goal to be attained by other spiritual practices,

which is the best of the best of all goals of life,

which is the only powerful way to bring the Supreme Lord under one's dominion,

which is only attained by the Lord's mercy,

which is the only treasure of the devotees,

which is flooded with the sweetness of wonderful transcendental bliss,

which is glorious beyond description, and

which manifests the transformations of ecstasy,

arises from the actions of the mind.

106-7. If you think meditation is difficult for the mind, or

if you wish to see the Lord and thus make your eyes fruitful,

then go to Bharata-varsa and on Gandha-madana Mountain see Lord Narayana, the friend of Nara.

108. Fixed in meditation, we see Him within and without.

Therefore we never suffer separation from Him.

The gopis are not like that.

They don t want to meditate upon the Lord.

Their problem is that they cannot forget Him.

For them is not equal to be separated or to be with Him.

In fact they don t want separation.

But if there would be no separation in prakat lila , who could understand the greatness of their heart which was glorified by Uddhava.

In separation the heart breaks and love pours out and might be seen.

anadi · April 1, 2003

If vipralambha is higher than meeting,

then Lalita and the other sakhis and manjaris

would have been trying to keep Krsna out of Vraja.

They would have tried to be very far away from Him.

But have they done this?

They can never do so.

Do you want this?

Do any of you want Krsna to be separated from Radhika?

Do you want Radhika to weep and roll on the ground?

Spoken by Srila BV Narayana Maharaja

anadi · April 2, 2003

You may know that Lalita once sent a swan to Mathura.

When she sent him off, she told him,

"Go and tell Krsna about the dasami-dasa, t

he tenth stage, of Radhika's condition. I

n the eleventh stage she would surely die.

Nowadays she is often unconscious, and

she engages like a mad person in varieties of crazy talks (divyonmada).

Go and tell Krsna,

'You must come in a day – or just now.

Otherwise, if you go to Vraja later,

You will not be able to meet with Radhika at all.

You should always keep this in mind.

If You want to be happy,

and if You want to make all others happy ,

then come here at once."

Thus, according to the explanations of our previous acaryas, what I have told is correct.

Vipralambha is only needed to help nourish meeting.

If this is not accomplished there is no necessity of vipralambha.

Spoken by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

April 2, 2003

But if there would be no separation in prakat lila , who could understand the greatness of their heart which was glorified by Uddhava.

In separation the heart breaks and love pours out and might be seen.

This is exactly the reason why Vipralambha is considered greater than Sambogha by AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!

Hare Krishna!

Som

anadi · April 3, 2003

Very nice explanation.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja continues giving a quotation from Ujjvala-nilamani,

"Na vina vipralambhena sambhoga pustimasnute

without vipralambha, meeting will not be nourished."

(And that is why many of our acaryas say vipralabha is good.)

Afterwards he says

Does meeting come first or does vipralambha come first?

If the gopis had not met with Krsna, how would they have experienced vipralambha?

First there is meeting, and then separation.

Without meeting, the mood of separation cannot come

and Srimati Radharani cannot weep for Krsna.

Why are you not weeping?

Can you weep for Krsna from the core of your heart?

You cannot – because you have never seen Him.

If you will see His beauty, His qualities, His affection, and His love and mercy, then you can cry for Him.

So first is meeting, sambhoga,

then separation in the middle,

and then meeting again.

spoken by SBV Narayana M

And separation itself is meeting.

What is the meaning of vi pra lambha?

Vi means visesh - special

pra means prakash - as it is

lambha means meeting

Vipralambha means meeting as it is, but in a special way.

That meeting is inwardly, but never satisfying.

How can that

that is never satisfying be higher?

The Munis say

Fixed in meditation, we see Him within and without.

Therefore we never suffer separation from Him.

The gopis are not like that.

They don t want to meditate upon the Lord.

Their problem is that they cannot forget Him.

For them is not equal to be separated or to be with Him.

In fact they don't want separation.

They want to be with their beloved.

How can that

that is never satisfying be higher?

April 3, 2003

Und was macht das Spiel mit den Bällen???

April 3, 2003

If the gopis had not met with Krsna, how would they have experienced vipralambha?

First there is meeting, and then separation.

Can't the feeling of Vipralmbha be experienced without meeting. For example Rukmini had heard only descriptions of Krishna. But, she had an intense desire to meet Krishna (kind of Vipralambha) just after hearing the description of Krishna, though she had not actually met Krishna.

Kindly enlighten about it?

Hare Krishna!

Som

April 3, 2003

If the gopis had not met with Krsna, how would they have experienced vipralambha?

First there is meeting, and then separation.

Can't the feeling of Vipralmbha be experienced without meeting. For example Rukmini had heard only descriptions of Krishna. But, she had an intense desire to meet Krishna (kind of Vipralambha) just after hearing the description of Krishna, though she had not actually met Krishna.

Kindly enlighten about it?

Hare Krishna!

Som

Kishalaya · April 3, 2003

I really do not understand all this vipralambha as end in

itself. I mean, my reasoning does not accept it. Therefore

I also think Jiva Gosvami was also thinking like that.

That ultimately, the wish of the gopis to meet must be

fulfilled by Krishna (and perhaps get married -- I don't

want to get into a philosophical war now!!) before

ascending in the spiritual world. In the spiritual world

they remember vipralambha but do not wish it to happen.

I think this is either in Krishna Sandarbha or Gopala

Champu.

-Kishalaya

anadi · April 3, 2003

Dear Som prabhu,

Jadurani didi,

used to give the example with the jack fruit.

One can give you some description about it.

Is like that and so on.

Some desire may come to taste it.

As we hear about krsna,

some desire may arise to meet Him,

but until we meet Him we don't really feel separation.

After the moment Krsna, by His mercy,

will show Himself to us, and then live,

the separtion will start to burn in our heart,

as burned the heart of Druva Maharja who started to lament after the loss of the darshan of Sri Narayan.

I don't know if we can say that Rukmini didn't met Krsna before.

For example in prakat lila

as Srimati Radharani was born, she didn't even wanted to open Her eyes until Krsna came to Her, so that some thought She might be blind.

I don't know if that satisfy you.

your unqualified servant

anadi krsna dasa

April 3, 2003

Thanks for your kind answers Anadi prabhu!

Some more queries....

After the moment Krsna, by His mercy,

will show Himself to us, and then live,

the separtion will start to burn in our heart,

as burned the heart of Druva Maharja who started to lament after the loss of the darshan of Sri Narayan.

Can you tell what will be the symptoms of the person who has experienced it? For example what was Dhruva Maharaj's state and what did He experience?

For example in prakat lila

as Srimati Radharani was born, she didn't even wanted to open Her eyes until Krsna came to Her, so that some thought She might be blind.

In that case where is the quesion of purva-rag(the desire to meet before the first meeting) and so on?

. kamalayor dasa dasanudas

Som

anadi · April 3, 2003

Dear Prabhu,

I am most unqualified to answer these questions, as you already know.

I shall call for help my gurudeva, who gave a wonderful translation of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Jaiva Dharma.

I must apologise, these explanations might take a little bit longer.

But they are so sweet that I would like to give them in all their entirety.

We are now on the floor of Madhurya rasa

Unfortunely we start somewhere in the middle.

Vjaya:

Prabhu, I have understood about

vibhava, anubhava, sattvika bhava and vyabhicari bhava, and also

the svarupa of sthayibhava.

However, although I combined these four kinds of ingredients with stayibhava,

I still cannot awaken rasa. Why is this?

Gosvami:

Dear Vijaya-kumara, you should understand about the rasa called srngara-rasa. Only then will you be able to understand the sweetness of sthayi bhava.

Vjaya:

What is srngara-rasa?

Gosvami:

Sringara is the super excellent and profuse transcendental charm of madhura rasa.

There are two kinds of sringara:

1 vipralambha (love in separation) and

2 sambhoga (love in meeting and performing joyful transcendental pastimes together ).

Vipralambha is the delightful emotion that manifests when the nayak (the hero) and the nayika (the heroin) cannot fulfil

their cherished and delightful longing for pastimes such as

embracing and kissing each other.

Vipralambha can occur in any state,

either during meeting (milana) or separation (viyoga) and

it especially nourish sambhoga.

Vipralabha is also called viraha or viyoga.

your unqualified servant

anadi krsna dasa

Meeting and Separation

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