symptoms of the ill at heart

[Kishalaya]

Hari Bol Gouranga bhakta prabhus!

 

Kindly refer to the thread

"Swaminarayan- Krshna incarnation?"

 

One supposed follower of a particular sampradaya begins his

denunciation post by:

 

All Glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga !

 

only to try to prove his point about Gouranga's

non-contribution to bhakti and sankeertan by:

 

"Bhakti is the gift of the Dravida saints"

and various other arguments!

 

At least we have to accept that the tattvavadis had some

sense of propriety of not glorifying that whom they were

trying to denounce. Deception, cheating are in which

material mode, one does not have to think hard about it.

 

This fellow has *absolutely no* shraddha in his own Lord,

for one in shraddha is hungry for spiritual development,

not in finding ways to belittle those who do not conform

to his view of the world.

 

Kindly note, that the person has specifically forked out

topics for discussion which are sampradaya particulars

such as mode of worship and claim of avatarhood. Vedantins

of yore knew that such things do not fall in the purview

of vedanta discussions and hence never asked the gaudiya

sampradaya to *prove* Gouranga. Even when ramamanandis

challenged the gaudiyas, it was on the topic of Vedaanta --

a topic that revolves around the relashionship between

Brahman, Prakriti and Jiva. Since our sampradaya considered

Bhaagavatam to be a natural commentary to for achintya

bhedaabheda, we did not write a bhaashya. However, Sripad

Baladeva Vidyabhushana, nontheless, wrote a commentary of

the nyaya prasthan to satisfy the vedantins.

 

Notice that the concerned person has never remarked about

Govinda Bhaashya while he is trying to prove himself as a

philosopher and his opponent as a sectarian theologist.

 

While he takes help of his tattvavadi friends, he never

seems to have questioned their archana padhati of

decorating Sri Krishna as "Bharat Mata" and what else.

While we surely do not approve of the above in our

sampradaya, we do not start calling tattva-vada a

philosophy of "sentimental bangladeshis". I am sure if

the pancharatriki details are dug to sufficient depth,

everybody can raise finger on everybody.

 

It is surprising that his very official sampradaya web

site regards Jiva Gosvami as "the celebrated vedantin of

the Chaitanya school" while he goes on to decry us with

words like "sentimental bangladeshi". Definitely during

Jiva Gosvami's time there was no bhaashya on BrahmaSutras.

At least, by this, we can conclude his sampradaaya has some

level headed persons.

Please see Topic # 4 "The Sequel" at

http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/acharyas/ramanuja/sribhashya.html

 

His next trick is to force internal inconsistencies in our

sampradaya by two premises:

 

1. gaudiyas say they are madhva saampradaya

2. gaudiyas by saying Krishna is the Supreme form of Vishnu

are contradicting their own preceptor Madhva, who said there

is no difference between various forms of the Lord.

 

Of course, he is not very happy with the way we have

resolved the apparant (forced) contradiction. He insists

that Madhva's *no difference* means *no difference*.

He is not able to answer why even the Lord looks different

in different avatars, if *no difference* means

*no difference*. However he is ever ready to interpret our

meaning of "Supreme Vishnu" to mean gradation in the sense

he wants.

 

Lastly, his intentions regarding Gouranga's bhakti and

his sankeertan movement. In his all out attempt to deny

any credit to Gouranga and His Associates for the sankeertan

movement, he quotes "Kabir" out of all the references for

sankeertan movement found in libraries throughout the

world. The laughable matter is that this very "Kabir"

denounces his favourite "prasthan trayam" as useless

without prema for God.

 

Of course, it may not be very evident to you as to why he

chose the following statement to denounce Gouranga.

 

"Bhakti is the gift of the Dravida saints"

 

Notice carefully that he uses existence of a quality in

one (Dravid saints) to say that the quality was less, or

more probably, non existent in another (Gouranga and His

Associates). By the way, one more point, there is no

mention of sankeertan - mass congregation. The third point

to note is that, if we go by the above statement, we will

have to discount the presence of bhaktas before the

Dravid saints came into existence.

 

The person however was not aware of the fact, and presently

may not be very happy to know, that we are very pleased

because the Dravid saints were such exalted devotees. We

can only aspire to put the dust of the feet of the servants

of the servants of these devotees.

 

Prabhujis, you may be thinking why am I also indulging in

dirt squirming. Please be assured that I do not feel any

joy in doing such thing. We were not the aggressors here.

Attack was made on us, however for neophites like me,

there is always a chance to lose faith based on superficial

argument as we have seen so many in the past. To establish

faith, one simply needs to reason like this. The six

Gosvaamis of Vrindaavan, were no beggars by birth. However

they left everything and lived in Vrindaavan for the rest

of their lives. The only possessions they had to call

theirs was their kaupin and their japa mala. These persons

had already occupied posts in life which required the use

of one's intelligence. They surely must have got something

very precious, and which was subjected to critical

examination by them, that they could readily renounce

everything and spend the rest of their life in bhajan.

The character of the Guru is the greatest pramaan -- tattva

darshi.

 

Your insignificant servant,

Kishalaya

[Guest guest]

good obsevation kishalaya,

 

this is the information age,

and information warfare is reality.

 

HK's first nature is not to fight, but that cannot make them immune for enemy attacks, violent or non violent.

the tendency to no fight

attracts terrorists, violent or non violent.

 

therefore the time demands that HK's spare some time out of sanirtana, and japa and spend some time studying the source books that motivate the terrorists, violent or non violent.

once the root caoue of their motivation is understood, then attack it intelligently and expose it to the world how madn it is. this is information warefare counter-attack.

note that this is not violent.

so, it is worth doing.

even violent response is also necessary

as the situation demands.

security and safety, and protection from apakirti

is after all everyone's ultimte responsibility.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

 

[Kishalaya]

Jai Nityaananda, Jai Gouraachandra!

 

Hari Bol!

 

Thinking back on what has been said from both sides, I feel

a little disturbed by the fact that I have used harsh words

where the point could have been made in a more mild manner.

Especially saying:

 

"This fellow has *absolutely no* shraddha in his own Lord"

 

was not appropriate, since the person concerned does seem

to be a follower of Lord Hari. In the heat of the moment

such words came out and since accusation was made publicly,

I think I should also post this apology in public. Only

by chanting the names of "Nityaananda" and "Gouraanga" has

this thought come into my mind. I guess the Lords have

prompted me to forsake my argumentative mentality that I

have brought forth from the last decade.

 

It is in the mood of Sri Gour Hari's movement that I plead

that whatever one may like to think about the divinity of

Sri Gouraanga, one cannot take away from Him what He has

done for the whole world. Even if one does not want to

accept that, one may sincerely pray to and chant the names

of one's own Lord in place of getting into arguments that

lead to nowhere.

 

Your servant,

Kishalaya