Srila BV Svami Prabhupad is a nitya sakhi

[Kishalaya]

Dear Anadi Prabhuji,

 

I have no problem with Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami

Prabhupada being a gopi or gopa, but what I understand

certainly is that his outlook was not narrow. You somewhere

claim that he was empowered by Balarama to spread the

Ujjwal rasa in western countries, which you may see, but

please also understand others have their vision. To quote

hamlet (this may not be very shaastric but may drive the

point home)-- There are more things in heaven and earth than

dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

"Sri Rupa being in the madhura rasa could understand of course all other rasas, whose moods are included in this rasa ."

 

That being so, you must understand those in other rasas

can *never* understand these aspects of the highest rasa.

Kindly do mercy on these souls as things which you speak

are taken in a negative sense.

 

Just because you see Sri Sri Balarama as a gopi somewhere,

which could very well be true in your vision, that does

not mean that others see him like that. Next you may say

that so what if Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

established Sri Sri Rukmini Dwaarkaadheesh. (I assume

Prabhupada established them in LA. This is what is there

in the LA temple website -- The Los Angeles Hare Krishna

temple was first established in 1970 by Srila Prabhupada,

the founder acarya of the International Society for Krishna

Consciousness.). Sri Sri Rukmini is an expansion of

Srimati Chandravali etc. Next you will comment about Sri Sri

Sita Ramachandra in Iskcon Bombay and say Sri Sri Sita is

an expansion of Her Lordship in some manner.

 

Please understand that such comments are a form of egregious

rasaabhaasa for some devotees situated firmly in a

particular form of the Lord. Discussions about these things

should not be open but in association of like minded

devotees. Otherwise you would have done a great disservice

of shaking the devotion of those who are trying to situate

themselves firmly to a form of the Lord they feel naturally

attracted to.

 

Please forgive my offences,

 

Your servant,

Kishalaya

 

[Kishalaya]

Dear Anadi Prabhu Ji,

 

I beg for forgiveness about the nonsense that I uttered in

my last post. Please consider that as the outpourings of an

emotionally deranged mind. I now fully understand that

things which are not meant for me, I could have simply

ignored or got clarified from Sri Guru. However my envious

heart chose to reply in the most lowly manner. I also

understand that you were simply following your Guru

Maharaja's orders and trying to find those few fortunate

souls who have a natural attraction for serving The Lotus

Feet of Her Lordship. That you are a great vaishnava can be

understood by the fact that without thinking about yourself

you wholeheartedly defended your Guru Maharaja in a

gathering where none was supporting you. I also

wholeheartedly accept all that you have to say without

contest, knowing fully well that which I do not understand

is only because of my small intelligence. In the end I put

this humble request at your lotus feet to forgive me

otherwise my Lord will be lost to me forever.

 

Your most insignificant servant,

Kishalaya

[anadi]

Dear Kishalya Prabhu

dandavat pranam

 

Before your second message I started my post like this

 

Thank you for your wonderful post.

I write many things

But you understood my heart

If you follow my heart

You are my follower

 

This is anuga tya.

In this connection one can better understand Rupa anuga (to follow the heart of Rupa).

 

The real attraction for a particular form of Krsna first appears in rati,

and so seen nobody can change it or diminish that attraction, and that can be called more than nishta.

I cannot distroy that which has not appeared.

"The truth is, I don't have (even) shraddha, because I am not even surrendered which should expresse itself outside as sharanagati. I am not a sharanagat, so I am still staying, at the door of bhakti.

 

 

Now that I read your second post I felt as you wanted to just shut my mouth,

you started to praise me publicly,

still knowing that I am a low person and a neophyte.

Oh, you are a very intelligent person.

May your gurudeva continue to bestow his mercy on you

So that your sadhana may go on successfully.

 

“The ones who praise me are my real enemies.”

 

dandavat pranam

hoping to be a servant

of the vaisnavas

 

all glories to sri guru and gaura

 

[Guest guest]

Srivasa Pandit speak abhout rasa lila with out problem. In Gaura lila any rasa may be rise in madhurya rasa.

[Guest guest]

Dear Anadi,

 

When Prabhupada was asked about the stanza of

Visvanatha Cakravarti (nikunjayuno. . .) he said, "The prayers offered by Visvanatha Cakravarti to his spiritual master have a special significance. His spiritual master was one of the assistant gopis, so the prayer was offered like that. On the whole, the spiritual master is an agent of Krishna. But either he is assistant to the gopis or assistant to the cowherds boys."

 

Given this comment I think your idea of using this stanza as 'proof' of his position and bhava in Krsna lila is suspect at best. It's fine to believe in the vision of your Guru Maharaja - but to denigrate or belittle the vision of other stalwart vaishnava's is not a good policy. Better to just understand that different devotees will have a different vision instead of trying to find fault with those who have a different vision.

 

Your servant,

Audarya-lila dasa

 

[anadi]

Dear Prabhu,

dandavat pranam

please forgive me, it was in no way my intention to belitle your guru, or anyone else. Please be merciful and forgive me.

 

If Srila BV Svami Prabhupada says that both possibilities can be seen, is also Ok (can you please give some proof for the autenticity of that statement?)

 

It might be thought that we have an overlapping here, and according the angle of vision one can see a pryanarma sakha or a manjari.

But in this context one should not forget that the one that prays in that stanza is a manjari, not a sakha.

 

may your bhajan siksa guru

guide you in the secrets of raganunga bhajan

 

dandavat pranam

[Guest guest]

The quote from Srila Prabhupada is in the Veda Base. It is from a letter to his disciple Jayapataka. The paragraph I cited is the one in which he answers Jayapataka's questions about the verse. I think it is pretty clear. (letter 69-09-26.Jay)

 

Your servant,

Audarya-lila dasa

[anadi]

Dear Audarya-lila prabhu,

 

We should very carefully analyze what is the meaning.

 

SBV Svami Prabhupada, answer to that question very precisely, without a trace of a doubt.

He says:

The prayers offered by Visvanatha Cakravarti to his spiritual master have a special significance.

His spiritual master was one of the assistant gopis, so the prayer was offered like that.

 

And Srila BV Svami Prabhupad insisted that Sri Gurvastakam prayers by Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, must be sung by His disciples for him .

 

Why? You try to insinuate that not because of that specialty,

but

because of the second part of the answer where was explained some general description of the guru, so that one should not think that all the sat gurus are on that platform.

He says:

On the whole, the spiritual master is an agent of Krishna. But either he is assistant to the gopis or assistant to the cowherds boys (which is not the position of the pryanarma sakha).

 

If that is your opinion is ok, but

I must apologize that I didn t like that higher authority position that you took by saying

I think it is pretty clear.

It doesn t make a good impression when one judges his own statements.

Please forgive me for this remark.

 

dandavat pranam

anadi krsna dasa

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Anadi,

 

The reason I said it is pretty clear is that Srila Prabhupada said that the meaning had special significance for the author due to the position of his spiritual master. He then went on to explain that the spiritual master can come from different groups in the eternal abode.

 

I didn't say that the quote definitely placed Srila Prabhupada in one group or the other - that is what you were trying to say. But I do say that it clearly leaves room for the spiritual master being in a group other than the one you feel he must come from if one sings this song.

 

I am going to leave this discussion at this point as I feel it isn't going anywhere, but I will leave you with this caution once again. The opinion that you are trying to defeat with your reasoning is that of B.R. Sridhara Swami who was given the title sastra nipuna (scriptural genious) by his gurudeva. Further it is accepted by most that he was given the post of 'guardian of devotion' by him as well. Here I will state for you very clearly what my opinion is and you can take it or leave it as you wish. My opinion is that we must find room in our hearts to accomodate both visions (in the case at hand) and realize that spiritual life is full of diversity. Sastra and the words of our acharyas support both ideas so it would be best to leave it at that.

 

Your servant,

Audarya-lila dasa

[anadi]

Dear Audrya-lila Prabhu

dandavat

I fully agree with you.

 

all glories to Sri GURU

and Gaura

Jaya Radhe!

[Radhakunda_das]

I have read the different arguments put forward by the different

greatly learned prabhus with great admiration and interest and I would

like to ask the' following questions;

1 Tripurari Maharaja talks of srila Prabhupada's eternal RELATIONSHIP

TO Radha and

and Krishna as a gopa. Do gopas have and eternal rasa with Radha? If

so what types of gopas are they?.

2 From the arguments of those who say Sridhar Maharaja knew the he rasa

Of Srila Prabhupada, I do not see any evidence of that in their

arguments. When I analyse the arguments presented by them purported to

have been altered by Sridhara Maharaja, I see no certainty in them. In

Sridhar Maharaja's words it is a conjecture born of deductive

reasoning on Srila Prabhupada's poem and some of his activities. It is

not as a result "seeing" or in other words spiritual vision.An exemple

of a spiritual vision is like that of Syamananda Prabhu and his

illustrious disciple Rasikananda Prabhu. It is said that once

Rasikananda Prabhu went to Govardhana and had vision of Lord Krishna.

When he later on met Syamananda Prabhu, he(Syamananda) described to

him that very vision. Similarly in the Puranas we hear of many

people who could "see" like that.To me it is this type of "seer" who can

say whether Srila Prabhupad is a gopa,a gopi or both. I do not think

speculations, deductions or concensuses can conclusively convince anyone

except the greatest OF fanatics about the real spiritual identity of Srila

Prabhupada. My question is; Do WE HAVE ANY PERSONS WHO CAN SEE THESE

THINGS?

 

 

[Guest guest]

this is from Bhaktisiddhanta

 

"Ramananda, being further asked to subjoin the fullest reciprocity of madhurya rasa, advanced to delineate the counter reciprocal moiety of the whole by fixing the object in Sri Radhika. The highest step of devotion is displayed to serve the Pair and to utilize the full independence of the servitor to espouse the cause of the predominating aspect of the counter-whole by associating oneself in Her company. Ramanananda was found to describe the situation of the paraphernalia and the transcendental duties congenial to confidential service of attending maids of Sri Radhika which completed the full narration of the manifestive position of amorous Pair."

 

---------

 

here he says the highest service is to utilize your independence in to espouse the position of the predominator(krishna) by associating

in Her company.

 

this is the confidential service to the milkmaids,

Radha is the object of service(gopis are her)

you are meant to serve her by espousing the postion of the predominator

 

-------------------------

Bhaktisiddhanta explains the above

 

"conclusion

 

 

In analyzing the narrative we find that we have got an outward structure apart from the physical sight of things. We have got an inner situation as distinguished from the entire contemplative plane where meditating entities are set apart from us. A holder of the physical body and owner of the contemplating spirit has got a common fountainhead Who or Which is asserted as the owner of the two possessions and this proprietor forms a part of the spiritual whole with Whom the person is fully associated. The spiritual tie between the integral spirit and fractions is roughly known as "meditation". This meditation at the very sight proves to have reference to physical and mental qualities. Both these qualities are shiftable. So the factor of time puts them into different chambers and this location is restricted to finitudinal inadequacies. If the spirit is detached from the integer, the associating tie will be observed to be "meditation"; so the purport of meditation is hampered by th e contamination of a different element which is known as matter, being opposite to the spiritual bearing. The very preamble of the Bhagavata school goes to signify the function of the spirit as meditation. If this is judged in the ordinary eye we get the position of the "doer" isolated and joined by a tie or deed which is an instrumental. When love acts as medium between All-love and Love, all the different aspects of bhakti are included in the word dhyanam, or meditation in worldly language. The unalloyed entity will dispel all foreign matters that are included as attributes to suit the relativity of an enjoyer and an enjoyed. The pure unadulterated spiritual attempt of an unalloyed spirit should in no case be confused with the temporal association of material phenomena whether gross or subtle.

 

Ramananda belonged to the Bhagavata school, so all his activities were pure and instructive, if they were properly followed. The word "following" should not be confused with inadequate or improper relativities of our enjoying mood, which are but defective. The seeming features of things should not predominate over our weak reasonings. If we indulge in such feeble criticism, we would fail to have the full conception of the object of meditation. The object has been described as "Krishna" or 'Shyama", "Blue Black" or "Dark" i.e. void of all material colors. The hasty sight will deter us to espy the accurate conception. Our bitter experience of relativity will tell us to having the upper hand to get rid of the inadequacy and will instigate our common sense to claim identity with the Whole instead of having firm determination to stick to our real position. In order to get rid of posing as an integer, which is but a tentative adumbration of depriving ourselves from the absolute position, Krishna's mercy was fully displayed in Ramananda; so he was constantly busy with the greatest perfection of eternal blissful knowledge. His entity has been analyzed by his deeds as thoroughly associated with the unalloyed spiritual manifestations. Though his deeds are not approved by the enjoying mood of observers, still a keen penetration and longer sight would surely help the people to learn the Absolute Truth from his pastimes. The Supreme Lord sent Pradyumna Mishra, a brahmana, to pick up some instructions so as to lead him to perfection. The learner was confused to see Ramananda busy with the serving of dancing girls, paying no attention to him. The seeming features did not attract him to accurately observe the divine spiritual deeds of the host. The Supreme Lord gave him to understand to have patience to penetrate into the Real Absolute for which every soul is meant to equip himself for the eternal and transcendental journey.

 

Ramananda's trait of character is painted by the Supreme Lord in equality with Sri Rupa and Sri Sanatana who played the part of model ascetics. >>>>>>Ramananda had no affinity of enjoying the world, but he was always on the look-out of rendering service to Sri Krishna by inducing the serving-maids for unalloyed amorous purposes pertaining to the eternal pastimes. Silly observations are often found to misunderstand the whole thing, and they are observed to take the lowest level of non-ethical principles.<<<<<<<<<

 

Ramananda's Maithili song has disclosed startling pastimes which are hardly to come under the rationalistic scope of mundane thinkers. And this was fully participated in by the Supreme Lord in the company of His intimate friends. His own verse, "Pida bhirna vakala kuta katubhih" is the full parade of speedy loving service to Krishna, instead of submitting to passionate feats.

 

The Supreme Lord has furnished the highest testimonial of the spiritual life in Ramananda. The Supreme Lord spent His last days in the close companionship of this picked-up serving temper with His most confidential associates. His drama served as one of the constant companions of the Supreme Lord's direct service to Krishna. Ramananda was recognized as one of the four mukta purushas of the time of the Supreme Lord and he was certified to be the only friend who had no equal among the bhaktas He met in the South. But alas! the highest platform of a devotee is often taken advantage of by the greatest scoundrels and thereby the providential will is carried fully by preventing intelligent pedants to have access to the eternal world where knowledge is infinity and bliss is incessant. He was not an instructor to teach merely how to get rid of this mundane bondage but served as an advance-guide of eternally unfettered liberated souls in their incessant unalloyed service of the pastim es of Krishna, who have no connection with or reference to the mundane relative service of the Lord."

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Radhakunda dasa,

 

If someone says they have seen how will you know if it's true or not? If you yourself aren't seeing then your only recourse for knowing is faith in the one who claims to have vision.

 

You say that anyone who has faith in the words of Sridhara Maharaja is a fanatic - I disagree with you assessment. Sridhara Maharaja was recognized by his own spiritual master and given the place as the 'Guardian of Devotion' by him. His is also recognized and revered by most of his god brothers. That Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati had faith in him is shown by his words regarding him that 'I am happy to know that after I am gone there is one disciple who can accurately represent me'.

 

So you seem to have a problem with Sridhara Maharaja's use of deductive reasoning - but really you should think about it a little more carefully because it is based on spiritual insight and his ability to 'see' Srila Prabhupada's bhava though his words and actions.

 

So is that vision or opinion one that requires that other visions must be invalid? Of course not. There is room for differences of this type and it doesn't require one to think that one opinion is wrong and one is right.

 

When Krsna was in the wrestling arena he was seen differently by different seers - who was right? - they all were is the answer - they had vision according to their own relationship to Krsna and their own particular sentiment.

 

Sridhara Maharaja acknowldged the possiblity that the wide scale preaching and empowerment by Nityananda Prabhu may have overshadowed or concealed Srila Prabhupada's bhava - still his has his own opinion. For those who have faith in Sridhara Maharaja and his standing in Bhakti his words on the matter leave little doubt. For others that may not be the case. For those who have faith in him and his opinions there is considerable evidence to suggest that their faith is on firm ground. Sridhara Maharaja was a devotee with great feeling and understanding. He was a scriptural genious, no doubt, but he was also living in the land of faith - he was a man of experience.

 

In general of course faith is beyond reason. It is not unreasonable, but it is definitely beyond the realm of reason as well. Regarding faith, Sridhara Maharaja has said that it is the only means of conclusively knowing. For going to the land beyond measurement and reason, the land of maya, there is only one way - faith alone is the currency for entrance there.

 

At any rate there will not be any conclusive evidence regarding Srila Prabhupada and his position in the nitya lila because he never personally spoke about it or revealed it to anyone. As Srila Prahbupada himself said on many occasions about such topics 'why don't you go there and see for yourself?'. Certainly it is not a topic that is worth fighting about or denigrating others over because they have a different vision.

 

Your servant,

Audarya-lila dasa

[Guest guest]

SP worsihp - Lord Caitanya, Krisna Balaram (sakhya), Radha Krisna (madhurya). It is like Ramananda Ray, He is sakhya and madhurya.

 

SP sakhya in Krisna lila and madhurya vipralambha in Gaura lila.

 

Lord Nityananda it servant Lord Caitanya who is Radha too. SP is servant Gaura-Nitai in first.

 

He is represent all Panca tattva.

 

Hare Krisna.

[Guest guest]

Ultimately, what does it do for us knowing the original swarupa of our Acaryas? Not much ... we still have to continue to chant 16 rounds, follow the 4 regulative principles and engage in loving devotional service in the association of devotees.

 

So why contemplate and speculate about this? I have to agree with all the devotees in this thread who caution us to stay away from these topics.

[Guest guest]

I don't want to enter this debate. I do personally believe that Swami Maharaja was a Manjari, and indeed some senior disciples of his do know what his svarupa is.

 

I just want to make sure that we don't offend one another as vaisnavas and keep the debate purely sastrik.

 

I can only repeat what my Gurudeva Srila BV Narayana Goswami has said, and that is that Swami Maharaj was undoubtedly a manjari, he was initiated into gopi bhava mantra from his sannyasa guru and he is in the line of Sri Rupa Goswami, therefore he MUST be a Manjari.

 

Someone mentioned earlier implying somewhat that my Srila Gurudeva is trying to claim successorship by completing the Bhagavatam.

 

Having been with him for sometime, his mood is totally different. He thinks 'Swami Maharaja has left some remnants of seva for me, so that is how I am doing this' I have heard him say this.

 

Gurudeva has NEVER been out to steal disciples. He is not out to take anything over, he has even said, all the initiating sannyasis can continue to initiate. He is just trying to provide support and inspiration for Bhakti. If people come to him, that is their own choice, and it certainly is not imposed on them.

 

-AN

[Guruvani]

 

I don't want to enter this debate. I do personally believe that Swami Maharaja was a Manjari, and indeed some senior disciples of his do know what his svarupa is.

 

I just want to make sure that we don't offend one another as vaisnavas and keep the debate purely sastrik.

 

I can only repeat what my Gurudeva Srila BV Narayana Goswami has said, and that is that Swami Maharaj was undoubtedly a manjari, he was initiated into gopi bhava mantra from his sannyasa guru and he is in the line of Sri Rupa Goswami, therefore he MUST be a Manjari.

 

Someone mentioned earlier implying somewhat that my Srila Gurudeva is trying to claim successorship by completing the Bhagavatam.

 

Having been with him for sometime, his mood is totally different. He thinks 'Swami Maharaja has left some remnants of seva for me, so that is how I am doing this' I have heard him say this.

 

Gurudeva has NEVER been out to steal disciples. He is not out to take anything over, he has even said, all the initiating sannyasis can continue to initiate. He is just trying to provide support and inspiration for Bhakti. If people come to him, that is their own choice, and it certainly is not imposed on them.

 

-AN

 

And I have found evidence in his books of him showing sakhya-bhava in a very profound and obvious way.

 

Anyway, the subject is far from decided just because Narayana Maharaja has said something.

 

Narayana Maharaja has not studied the body of teachings of Srila Prabhupada and is in fact busy writing books of his own.

 

From the way it sounds, he is making his judgement from a very external observation that leaves out the entire canon of Srila Prabhupada.

[Devarsirat]

 

Srila Prabhupada did in fact begin the translation of the Tenth Canto in Bhubaneshwar, Orissa in 1977. Srila Prabhupada started it in the middle of the night. Pradyumna Prabhu was also awake and was very excited since he could hear Srila Prabhupada dictating the purports on tape.

 

Srila Prabhupada is even reported to have said that he will write the Tenth Canot in such a way that it could never be miscontrued by sahajiyas.

 

Just because he decided to depart this world before the completetion of the Tenth Canto does not necessarily mean that he chose NOT to reveal it, and this also goes for possibly every other rasa-text.

 

In fact, in 1966 Srila Prabhupada is reported to have told Hayagriva das that he would translate EVERYTHING, including Vedas, Puranas, Upanishads, all the sastras.

 

I feel that it is quite erroneous to imply that Srila Prabhupada had his "reasons" not to do all this. It is probably due to a hidden agenda to enhance the glory of Srila Narayana Maharaja by stating that he somehow starts where Srila Prabhupada left off, thus implying that the former is the latter's successor.

 

And how do you know He is not? As far as I know is that the one who is conducting the last rites for the departed Acarya He is the successor. I heard this, but I have no sastric reference for it. Maybe someone can elaborate on this?

 

As far as the completion of scripture is concerned, I am sure that Srila Prabhupada could have written purports on any scripture.

Its my opinion that one acarya will leave something to do for the next, thats His mercy. So many others before Him could have written any of these books but they left so much for the next acaryas, I dont see what the problem is?

 

Someone wrote the following....

Narayana Maharaja has not studied the body of teachings of Srila Prabhupada and is in fact busy writing books of his own.

 

Again another misleading statement, dontmake the mistake and think like this, it is all to easy to damage ones devotional creeper, even by just repeating someone elses offence and false propaganda. The mind gets to easily polluted by things.

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja knows and fully understands all about what Srila Prabhupada wrote

 

Everyone who has met Narayana Maharaja and being with him for a while, knows that He has an incredibly deep understanding about all of the topics Srila Prabhupada has touched.

 

You think he has become a bhaktivedanta and is recognised by countless of Prabhupada disciples as a maha bhagavad devotee of The Lord for nothing?

 

Narayana Maharaja is a pure devotee in our parampara and He knows everything, those who have seen and met Srila Prabhupada will be able to understand how high Narayana Maharaja is, (Iskcon leaders have met Him and only gave up His association after lots of pressure because they where treatend with loosing their positions, including their disciples.)

 

Those who reject Him and spread false propaganda about Him commit spiritual suicide, how foolish can one be?

 

There is nothing wrong with Him writing His own books, especially they do not conflict with anything Srila Prabhupada or any vaisnava author before has written . All great acaryas write books of their own, that is what they do, preach and write books.

 

We need these books, no one would ever be able to finish writing about The Lord anyway, simply because He is unlimited, His pastimes are.... If someone would write millions of years and millions of books about Krishna, the nectar will never end.

[Shakti-Fan]

Krsna Talk: My Guru is Radharani

Questions and Answers with Swami B. G. Narasingha

Question: I have seen in the composition "Prabhupada Lila-Smarana-Mangala-Stotram" that you have indicated Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was in madhurya-rasa. However, we have also heard from other great souls quoting Srila B. R. Sridhara Deva Goswami Maharaja that Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja has shown affinity for sakhya-rasa. This apparently has been shown in Swami Prabhupada's prayer written on the good ship Jaladutta while he was on his way to the western world. So my question is, being an admirer of Srila Sridhara Maharaja how do you harmonize your opinion about the rasa of your Guru Maharaja with that indicated by Srila Sridhara Maharaja?

Narasingha Maharaja: What Srila Sridhara Maharaja has spoken, we should take that upon our head. After the departure of our Prabhupada, it is appropriate that we should accept the direction of Srila Sridhar Maharaja. Almost these very same words were uttered about Srila Sridhara Maharaja by our Guru Maharaja in a letter to Sripad Govinda Maharaja (Our Affectionate Guardians, pp. 8. ). So to accept Srila Sridhara Maharaja's opinion is quite natural for anyone who even remotely knows something of his higher subjective realizations and of his intimate relationship with our Srila Prabhupada.

When Srila Sridhara Maharaja heard the recitation of the poem composed by our Guru Maharaja, "Prayer to the Lotus Feet of Krsna," he commented that there was indeed strong indication of our Srila Prabhupada being in sakhya-rasa. Srila Sridhara Maharaja said, "He has expressed himself, his eternal position, the acme of his aspiration. In Vrindavan he has established Balarama and Krishna and Nitai Gaura, and he is saying like that, Nitai Gaura are Krishna and Balarama. It's almost clear that he comes from that group. And now he's again there. Hare Krishna."

Such a statement by Srila Sridhara Maharaja is not to be taken lightly. A short time later there was some objection to Srila Sridhara Maharaja's referring to our Guru Maharaja as being in sakhya-rasa. Some of Srila Prabhupada's disciples for some reason took objection to Srila Sridhara Maharaja's statement. Srila Sridhara Maharaja was shocked by the immaturity of those disciples who objected. The consideration of rasa was obviously not a topic that those disciples were familiar with. Indeed their harshness in dealing with Srila Sridhara Maharaja reflected their extremely neophyte state of Krsna consciousness.

At that time Srila Sridhara Maharaja made reference to the effect that because of the special empowerment of Sri Nityananda Prabhu that our Guru Maharaja might have couched his madhurya tendencies in deference to Lord Nityananda.

The idea given by Srila Sridhara Mahraja was that it is possible that our Guru Maharaja was in madhurya rasa, but out of deference to Nityananda by whose potency he was influenced for his preaching campaign, Srila Prabhupada may have veiled his madhurya sentiments. Therefore some of the sakhya influence of Nityananda Prabhu was shown outwardly, keeping madhurya in the backgound.

It was not unthinkable for Srila Sridhara Maharaja to say such a thing-that our Guru Maharaja was outwardly showing sakhya influence and keeping his madhurya sentiments in the background. Certainly such is not unreasonable.

To be a follower of Srila Sridhara Maharaja does indeed mean to adhere to his instructions and opinions. Last but not least, his instruction was that one should come to the plane of eternal truth, by surrender-to know the truth in the core of one's heart, anuraga.

Some devotees may be in favor of our Guru Maharaja in sakhya-rasa while others may favor him in madhurya-rasa but to establish a right and a wrong in this matter may not be as black and white as some would like it to be. The truth is subjective-as He wishes us to see Him, so we shall see Him.

In the life of our Guru Maharaja there were innumerable indications for thinking that he was connected to Krsna-lila in madhurya-rasa. We have tried to show practically, by those indications, how Srila Prabhupada is very dear to Srimati Radharani. Only a portion of those indications have been recounted in the song "Prabhupada Lila-Smarana-Mangala-Stotram." Those were as follows: (1) That Srila Prabhupada's father praying to the vaishnava-sadhus asked for their blessings that his son become the servant of Srimati Radharani. (2) That Srila Prabhupada took mantra-diksa (initiation) from Sri Saraswati Thakura (Vrsabhanavi Devi Dayita Dasa also known as Nayana-mani Manjari in his siddha-rupa). (3) That Srila Prabhupada received his most cherished instructions to print books from his Guru while they strolled along the banks of Sri Radha Kunda (the most sacred place of pilgrimage for the followers of Sri Rupa and Raghunatha dasa). (4) That Srila Prabhupada's chosen place of bhajan in Vrindavan was just behind the samadhi of Srila Rupa Goswami (Rupa Manjari). (5) That Srila Prabhupada after completing his world preaching mission returned to Vrindavana and selected Kartikka month (the month non-different from Srimati Radharani) as the time of his departure and his entrance into the eternal lilas of the Lord. (6) And lastly Srila Prabhupada manifested a great desire just a few days before his pastime of departure to go to Govardhan Hill, the eternal place of residence of the followers of Sri Rupa and Raghunatha dasa. These and other indications of Srila Prabhupada being the dear most servant of Srimati Radharani were expressed in "Prabhupada Lila-Smarana-Mangala-Stotram"

It may be said that one can not judge the rasa of a particular devotee simply by his external movements or place of residence etc. However such a statement may be taken as only partially true. Otherwise Gaudiya-vaishnavas would not choose the Holy Dhams such as Vrindavana, Navadwipa, and Jagganatha Puri as their preferred places of residence/bhajan. The prakata-lila (external movement) of the pure devotee is not necessarily devoid of aprakata-bhava (one's internal feelings of love of Krsna). Although the movements of the pure Vaishnava are certainly deeply mysterious and not easily understood, such may nonetheless give us some perspective on the level of their intimacy with the Supreme Lord.

Further biographical information that has not been mentioned in the "Prabhupada Lila-Smarana-Mangala-Stotram" indicating the intimacy of Srila Prabhupada in Radha Krsna-lila is as follows. (1) When choosing to establish his mission "The League of Devotees" at Jansi, India Srila Prabhupada chose a building known as "Radha Smarak" (Radha Memorial) to set up his offices. (2) When Srila Prabhupada went to Delhi for printing his Back to Godhead magazine he chose a residence in the Chippiwada, Radha Krsna temple. (3) When choosing a printing press to begin the publication of his life's work Srimad Bhagavatam, Srila Prabhupada chose the Radha Press in Delhi. (4) When introducing his disciples to the worship of Sri Guru, Srila Prabhupada requested us to daily sing the prayers to the spiritual master composed by Viswanatha Cakravarthi Thakura, in which the glorify the spiritual master as a servant of the divine couple in madhyura-rasa (nikunja-yuno rati-keli-siddhyai) is mentioned. (5) Srila Prabhupada's favorite bhajan was "jaya radha madhava jaya-kunja-bihari, gopi-jana-ballabha" (This song was sung whenever Srila Prabhupada gave Srimad Bhagavatam class).

In any case, we have many such remembrances of our Divine Master which have unfolded in our heart so as to impel us to contemplate him as a follower of Sri Rupa Goswami and an eternal member of the intimate circle of the madhurya-rasa. We feel it proudly in our heart the Srila Prabhupada was the confidential representative of Srimati Radharani who was especially empowered by Sri Nityananda Prabhu to spread Krsna consciousness all over the world.

 

nama om visnupadaya krsna-presthaya bhutale

svami sri bhaktivedanta prabhupadaya te namah

gurvajnam sirasi-dharyam saktyavesa sva-rupine

hare-krsneti mantrena pascatya-pracya-tarine

visvacarya prabaryaya divya karunya murtaye

sri-bhagavat-madhurya-gita-jnana-pradayine

gaura-sri-rupa-siddhanta-saraswati nisevine

radha-krsna-padambhoja-bhrngaya gurave namah

 

"I offer my humble obeisances unto His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krsna on this Earth, having taken shelter at His lotus feet. Taking the order of his guru on his head, be became empowered by Nityananda Prabhu to act as a saktyavesa-avatara. He distributed the Hare Krsna mantra all over the Eastern and Western world, delivering and uplifting all fallen souls. He is the best of millions of jagat-gurus, because he is the personification of divine mercy. He has distributed the sweet nectar of Srimad Bhagavatam and the transcendental knowledge of Bhagavad-gita all over the world. He is constantly engaged in exclusive devotional service to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, Srila Rupa Goswami, and Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu. I offer my humble obeisances unto Srila Prabhupada, who is like a bumblebee always tasting the nectar of the lotus feet of Sri Sri Radha and Govinda." (pranam-mantra composed by Sripad Govinda Maharaja upon Srila Prabhupada's personal request)

As Srila Sridhara Maharaja has said, "If we raise our head a little higher and look up then we shall find Radharani and Gurudeva. It is Radharani who is instrumental in accomplishing the function of Gurudeva from behind. The source of grace for the guru is coming from the original source of service and love. Saksad dharitvena samasta sastrair, we are asked to see Gurudeva not as opaque but as transparent, to such a degree that through him the highest conception of service, the first conception of service can be seen. It can be obtained there. If we are earnest then we shall find the highest link from the original source. We are requested not to see guru as limited in his ordinary personification, but as the transparent mediator of the highest function in his line. If only our vision is deep, we can see that according to the depth of our sraddha, our vision, guru-tattva is very particular, very noble, very broad, wide and very deep." (Follow the Angels, pp.163. Available from Mandala Publishing Group: http://www.mandala.org/)

In summary we may conjecture that our Guru Maharaja, Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is in madhurya-rasa simply because he saw his guru as Srimati Radharani. His guru is Srimati Radharani. A simple observation-he saw his guru as Srimati Radharani. This was also confirmed by Srila Sridhara Maharaja on several occasions as follows: "Swami Maharaja has clearly written that his guru is Radharani, it is there. Krsna, Radharani will be pleased if you help me in this campaign. Is it not written there, e-punya koribe jabe radharani khusi habe dhruva ati boli toma tai. So he has admitted that his guru is Radharani. So we aspire after the service of Radharani, under the direction of Sri Rupa and other devotees, not committing any wrong." (Prayer to the Lotus Feet of Krsna)

"In general rasa, general service of Krishna he preached in the West. Though he knew and admitted that, 'My guru is Radharani.' Radharani, my gurudeva, has ordered me to preach in the west. And Krishna, my friend, you are to help me, because Radharani will be satisfied, my gurudeva. Your bigness is also like that. So, You must come to help me"

Certainly Srila Prabhupada will forgive us if we have over stepped our bounds in our endeavors to serve him with our full hearts love and devotion.

We offer our humble apologies to anyone and everyone if we have made any offence in following our heart felt intuition and pray that you will kindly forgive us.

[Guest guest]

I couldn't more with this post, Thank you, Devarsirat prabhu, for this eloquent post giving a glimpse of the greatness of Srila Narayana Maharaja. No offense intended but the prabhupada-only'ites and book-vadis would do well to take a cue from this post.

 

 

And how do you know He is not? As far as I know is that the one who is conducting the last rites for the departed Acarya He is the successor. I heard this, but I have no sastric reference for it. Maybe someone can elaborate on this?

 

As far as the completion of scripture is concerned, I am sure that Srila Prabhupada could have written purports on any scripture.

Its my opinion that one acarya will leave something to do for the next, thats His mercy. So many others before Him could have written any of these books but they left so much for the next acaryas, I dont see what the problem is?

 

Someone wrote the following....

Narayana Maharaja has not studied the body of teachings of Srila Prabhupada and is in fact busy writing books of his own.

 

Again another misleading statement, dontmake the mistake and think like this, it is all to easy to damage ones devotional creeper, even by just repeating someone elses offence and false propaganda. The mind gets to easily polluted by things.

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja knows and fully understands all about what Srila Prabhupada wrote

 

Everyone who has met Narayana Maharaja and being with him for a while, knows that He has an incredibly deep understanding about all of the topics Srila Prabhupada has touched.

 

You think he has become a bhaktivedanta and is recognised by countless of Prabhupada disciples as a maha bhagavad devotee of The Lord for nothing?

 

Narayana Maharaja is a pure devotee in our parampara and He knows everything, those who have seen and met Srila Prabhupada will be able to understand how high Narayana Maharaja is, (Iskcon leaders have met Him and only gave up His association after lots of pressure because they where treatend with loosing their positions, including their disciples.)

 

Those who reject Him and spread false propaganda about Him commit spiritual suicide, how foolish can one be?

 

There is nothing wrong with Him writing His own books, especially they do not conflict with anything Srila Prabhupada or any vaisnava author before has written . All great acaryas write books of their own, that is what they do, preach and write books.

 

We need these books, no one would ever be able to finish writing about The Lord anyway, simply because He is unlimited, His pastimes are.... If someone would write millions of years and millions of books about Krishna, the nectar will never end.

[Guruvani]

And this cramming Narayana Maharaja down the throats of devotees of the Krishna consciousness movement has created more opposition and resentment.

 

If you want people to keep offending Narayana Maharaja, then keep cramming him down the throats of devotees who don't want him and have no faith in him.

 

The defenders of Narayana Maharaja actually instigate more oppostion and more resentment.

 

You can't change how a lot of devotees feel about him and calling them all offenders simply creates even greater resentment than they already feel.

 

People are entitled to their own opinions.

 

A lot of devotees just get a bad taste from Narayana Maharaja and you can't change that by calling them names and cramming Narayan Maharaja down the throats of people who don't want to hear about him.

[Guest guest]

Guruvani prabhu,

 

Nobody is cramming down your throat. This is a <B><I>forum</B></I> where everyone is entitled to post their glorification of different Acaryas. If you take objection to it and think it is 'cramming down your throat', it is <B><I>your </B></I> problem, not theirs.

 

Developing a proper perspective will help.

 

 

And this cramming Narayana Maharaja down the throats of devotees of the Krishna consciousness movement has created more opposition and resentment.

 

If you want people to keep offending Narayana Maharaja, then keep cramming him down the throats of devotees who don't want him and have no faith in him.

 

The defenders of Narayana Maharaja actually instigate more oppostion and more resentment.

 

You can't change how a lot of devotees feel about him and calling them all offenders simply creates even greater resentment than they already feel.

 

People are entitled to their own opinions.

 

A lot of devotees just get a bad taste from Narayana Maharaja and you can't change that by calling them names and cramming Narayan Maharaja down the throats of people who don't want to hear about him.

[Guest guest]

We have statements by acaryas and then there is the acarya, the person whom the disciples worship to be as good as God. All disciples desire that others will be benefited from hearing the statements on siddhanta by their gurudeva, and likewise they desire that all should see their guru to be as good as good. Yet if there is a plurality of gurus the neophytes will generally become disturbed in the mind for despite all good counsel they cannot accommodate this. Such good counsel was given by Srila B.V. Swami Prabhupada in his 1936 speech originally published in The Harmonist in 1936, on the advent day of Srila Srila B.S. Sarasvati Thakura.

 

 

Gentlemen, the offering of such an homage as has been arranged this evening to the acaryadeva is not a sectarian concern, for when we speak of the fundamental principle of gurudeva or acaryadeva, we speak of something that is of universal application. There does not arise any question of discriminating my guru from yours or anyone else's.

There is only one guru, who appears in infinity of forms to teach you, me and all others.

 

No matter how many times we hear this, unless we submit to the conception in a devotional mood it will never enter out hearts. We may sit on the throne of the madhyama adhikari conception but when the bone of the opportunity for Vaisnava aparadha is thrown, our real kannistha conception will overtake us and we will immediately jump.

[Laulyam]

Human nature is such that when one develops faith in a particular subject, he will naturally feel regard for the teachers of that subject. Moreover, for various reasons, common people do not easily develop faith in exalted personalities who are still living, whereas they tend to develop great faith in the activities of mahajanas who have passed away.

(From Jaiva Dharma Ch.12)

 

 

 

Some people who are learned in the conclusions of the sastras have explained that the word sraddha means to have faith in the Vedas and in the words of sri-guru. This meaning is not wrong, but it is not entirely clear. In our sampradaya the meaning of the word sraddha is given as follows:

 

sraddha tv anyopaya-varjam

bhakty-unmukhi citta-vrtti-visesah

 

Sraddha is the characteristic function of the heart that

strives toward bhakti alone, which is totally devoid of karma

jnana, and which desires nothing other than the exclusive

pleasure of Krsna. (Amnaya-sutra 57)

 

When the sadhaka regularly hears the instructions of sadhus in the association of suddha-bhaktas, a conviction arises in his heart that he cannot obtain his eternal welfare by the methods of karma, jnana, yoga, and so on, and that he has no means of success unless he takes exclusive shelter at the lotus feet of Sri Hari. When this conviction appears, it may be understood that sraddha has arisen in the sadhaka’s heart. The nature of sraddha is described as follows:

 

sa ca saranapatti-laksana

 

Sraddha is characterized by its external symptom known as

saranagati, surrender to Sri Hari. (Amnaya-sutra 58)

 

Saranagati is described in these words.

 

anukulyasya sankalpah pratikulyasya varjanam

raksisyatiti visvaso goptrtve varanam tatha

atma-niksepa-karpanye sad-vidha saranagatih

(Hari-bhakti-vilasa 11.47)

 

There are six symptoms of self-surrender. The first two are anukulyasya sankalpa and pratikulyasya varjanam: “I will only do that which is favorable for unalloyed bhakti, and I will reject all that is unfavorable.” This is called sankalpa or pratijna, a solemn vow. The third symptom is raksisyatiti visvaso, faith in Bhagavan as one’s protector: “Bhagavan is my only protector. I can derive absolutely no benefit from jnana, yoga, and other such practices.” This is an expression of trust (visvasa). The fourth symptom is goptrtve varanam, deliberate acceptance of Bhagavan as one’s maintainer: “I cannot obtain anything, or even maintain myself, by my own endeavor. I will serve Bhagavan as far as I am able, and He will take care of me.” This is what is meant by dependence (nirbharata). The fifth symptom is atma-niksepa, surrender: “Who am I? I am His. My duty is to fulfill His desire.” This is submission of the self (atma-nivedana). The sixth symptom is karpanye, meekness: “I am wretched, insignificant, and materially destitute.” This is what is meant by humility (karpanya or dainya).

When these moods become established in the heart, a disposition arises that is called sraddha. A jiva who has this sraddha is eligible for bhakti, and this is the first stage in the development of the svabhava like that of those pure jivas who are eternally liberated. Therefore this is the nitya-svabhava of the jivas, and all other svabhavas are naimittika.

(From Jaiva Dharma Ch.6)

[stonehearted]

 

And how do you know He is not? As far as I know is that the one who is conducting the last rites for the departed Acarya He is the successor. I heard this, but I have no sastric reference for it. Maybe someone can elaborate on this?

I've heard this, too, but only from those who follow Srila Narayana Maharaja. There does seem to be a tradition that the oldest son light the funeral pyre, but I don't know of anything beyond that.

 

When asked about how to conduct things after his departure, Srila Prabhupada told us we could ask Narayana Maharaja about the last rites, etc. because he's familiar with such things, and we were obviously not. And he said we could consult Srila B. R. Sridhar Maharaja for philosophical inquiries. It should be clear from Srila Prabhupada's instructions over many years that he desires that his disciples--all of them--serve as his successors. That's natural, traditional, and proper. They're the ones he trained. They're the ones who responded to his call to give up everything and go everywhere to spread the sankirtan movement.

 

I've met Narayana Maharaja many times, here in Hawaii and in California, as well as in Vrindavan in 1982. I study many of his books, and I'm grateful that he has engaged devotees in putting them together and distributing them. And I'm grateful to him for the help and guidance he has given so freely to so many of my Godbrothers and -sisters, and to their children, whom ISKCON has largely failed, sometimes rather spectacularly. I have a great deal of respect for him, and I think that his giving his all in his later years to going everywhere to instruct devotees is a wonderful example to everyone. However, I'm not his disciple. And I think the suggestion by some of his disciples that he is Srila Prabhupada's designated successor is an affront to all those who, however imperfectly, have dedicated their lives to his service.

 

At the same time, I have often shared my strong conviction that those who make a campaign of vilifying him (and others--both outside ISKCON and within) don't have far to look if they want to know why their devotional creepers aren't actually growing as they should. And I agree with Deborah that Devarshirat's posts fall short of the cramming that Ksamabuddhi complains of. His post doesn't insist that Srila Narayana Maharaja is Srila Prabhupada's successor; he admits it's something he hear, and he asks for further information. Let's ratchet the discussion down and avoid turning this thread into a festival of nama-aparadha.