The Godfather or God the Father

[Gauracandra]

This weeks Srila Siddhaswarupananda television program was an irreverent (humorous) program on the nature of God (a continuation of a prior program). Text can’t fully capture the mood, voice inflection etc… of the humor, so I just wanted to mention this at the outset.

 

This is spiritual life where the devotee loves God as his friend, master, father, lover. This is the spiritual world. So-called Christians have no information about this spiritual world. And if you ask them if they’d like to know they respond “No”. Why don’t you want to know more that you know? The answer is obvious, because they don’t want to give up their present life of being the enjoyer. They can use Jesus as a doormat to wipe off their sinful activities, thus being saved, so they can continue to enjoy life. They don’t want to know God as the Supreme Enjoyer.

 

Because of this they refuse to recognize the representatives of God. Jesus says that if you actually wanted to do the will of God, then you would have recognized him as coming from God. You would be shown the truth in your heart. Instead, they want to have a distant relationship with God. To make God a mystery gives them an excuse not to love Him.

 

How many Christians actually follow Jesus’ first commandment to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul? I saw this one pamphlet by some Christian preachers. On the front cover, it showed God sitting on a throne as a faceless entity, full of effulgence. A blank face, really heavy looking. Bigger than even Garuda Das [an audience member]. So this God has this very hard, cement throne. Certainly not comfortable. And this guy is so big, you don’t even realize it, but there are tiny, tiny people at His feet. Then there was an ocean of fire to His right and to His left. This dude was huge. Like “God that guy’s big.” [laughter] That’s how you know its God. So basically the pamphlet has God asking [in a booming voice] “IS YOUR NAME IN THE BOOK?” and another person says “No, sir, his name is not in the book.” Then God leans over and points to one tiny person and says “THEN GO TO HELL!!!!” I don’t remember the exact script. But, yeah, it was something like that. He may have said “ETERNAL FIRE OF DAMNATION”, I don’t remember exactly.

 

And then you see all these people swimming in the eternal fires of damnation. So God spends eternity sitting on a throne and condemning people. He likes to see them burn. And not just for a little while, but forever. “Too bad. That’s its for eternity.” This faceless, bummer of a God says “Off to hell with you.” And then if you served Him, then by His mercy you can go to heaven. Its like the Godfather. The Godfather only offs the guys who displease him. But he can be very nice to those who favor him. Buys them homes, swimming pools.

 

This is their idea of God. Jesus says to love God. But this is the most unlovable person imaginable. “But He is nice to the nice guys, so you be nice.” I’m not sure I can give my heart to such a God, He might eat it [laughter]. I can fear Him yes. I can kiss His ass yes. I can try to do what He wants me to do. But to ask me to love Him is not possible. How can I love such an unattractive person.

 

One of the names of God is Krsna, which means ‘all attractive’. He is the most lovable, the most just, the most wise, the most kind, and compassionate. No one is His enemy, even if others make God their enemy. His relationship with everyone is on a foundation of love.

 

There is no way a person can say that this picture painted by Christians is a lovable God. He condemns for eternity, which rules out educational purposes. It is for revenge. “You didn’t serve me, I’ll get you when the judgment day comes.” It is sadistic.

 

And He is faceless. You are to fall in love with a faceless, effulgent, cement chair. Could you imagine trying to say “Hi” to such a person? “Could we be friends?” You wouldn’t even dare approach. They’d have to push you forward from the back. And when you are in front of this huge, monstrous God they’ll ask “Did he surrender?”, “No”. “Can I surrender now?” “Too late.” Too late buddy, that’s so merciful.

 

This is not a lovable entity. If it is not this cruel picture then it is God as a mystery. Not friendly, not beautiful, not loving. Or maybe it is Michaelangelo’s old man with a beard. Since God is the oldest, he must have the longest, whitest beard. What is God like? “He’s a mystery” Is He a mystery like Sherlock Holmes, or the Hardy Boy novels? Or maybe He is a mystery like some vague cloud. When you say this everyone will have a different idea, so how are you to love this?

[dhaa]

lecture sb 3.25.9 bombay 11-9-74

 

Prahupada:...The Christian conception of God as Father is not so perfect. Because if we conceive God as Father and Mother, then the policy is to take from Him. Because everyone wants to take from the father: “Father, give me that. Mother, give me that.”...

 

 

letter to rupanuga san francisco 3-12-68

 

Prabhupada:...In the spiritual world there is no such relationship as God as the father. In the material world such conception is appreciated very much. In the material world everyone wants to take from God because the conditioned soul wants to enjoy senses. And the concept of fatherhood is to drag resources from the Supreme. But in the spiritual world there is no question of drawing from the Supreme...

 

 

http://mandala.com.au/sermons1/introduction.htm

 

Sridhara Maharaja:...In the conception of God as father, we are what we are and He is supplying our food, home, and necessities in this plane. But if we truly approach Him, neglecting our wealth and achievements in this world to make a genuine heart's approach - not merely a formal approach - an exclusive approach - we shall discover what He is, as He is, and not as He is needed by us <font color="brown"> in our fallen stage </font color> ...

[Gauracandra]

This week’s Srila Siddhaswarupananda television program appears to be a continuation of last week’s program. I missed the first minute or so, and so didn’t quite get the context of the audience member’s question that opens the program. It had to do with the Trinity in Catholicism.

 

Srila Siddhaswarupananda: It is not my responsibility to explain their philosophy. You used to be Catholic so why didn’t you ask then?

 

The question of the Trinity is “Is Jesus God?” It should be understood that there are personalities within the Godhead, but there is also the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are countless people in the Godhead and in the Srimad Bhagavatam it says that the spiritual master should be accepted as God. But how is this so? It is not that he is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but that he is not separate from the Godhead. The whole spiritual world can be called the Godhead, and the spiritual master can be considered as God as servant. But the guru is not the supreme enjoyer.

 

So if you say Jesus is God you might be right. He is part of the Godhead. But you can’t say that he is the father. There is a distinction of personalities in the Godhead. It is a mistake to say there is no distinction.

 

The problem is that these people do not know what is the spiritual world. They have a vague idea of a facelss, mean God who sits on a throne, and a Holy Spirit. And in their conception those who go to God are like little ants ready to be smashed by the hammer of the judge. But what do they do there? They imagine that it will be just like this world, but now Jesus is there. They have no idea what goes on there, the essence, the activities.

 

The spiritual world means the world of loving service to God. But simply saying “Jesus is God” is not enough to help anyone achieve the goal of loving service to God. So long as you don’t merge personalities then you are on pretty good ground. Jesus has a relationship with the Supreme Father. Do you? How will you follow his foremost commandment to love the Supreme Personality of Godhead with all your being?

 

To them it is a philosophical thing. They don’t really know what they mean. They’ve heard some philosophy, and then everything else is just a mystery. They are lacking information about the kingdom of God and devotional service to the Supreme Lord. Thus their love can’t be perfect.

 

Sometimes we say Jesus is God and sometimes not God. In both cases you can be right. If you mean servant of God then yes. If you mean the Supreme Enjoyer then no.

 

If you say Jesus is the only son of God then this is nonsense. You don’t need to make God impotent to elevate Jesus. They think that it must be exclusive, else who will worship him? So they put up these false limitations on God. Shikari das has how many children?

 

Audience Member: Four.

 

Srila Siddhaswarupananda: Seems like eight [laughter]. He has four children and is just a poor taxi driver. They have made it that a taxi driver is more powerful than God.

 

By manipulating scripture they have created a theological blunder. They have made God impotent. All living entities are children of God. Everyone can become a loving servant of God. Not just sit with God. But play with God. Ride of God’s shoulders. You can love Him as your child, or lover. You can have such a relationship with God that you don’t even realize He is God.

[theist]

I have been discussing this point on another forum with some

fundamantalist evangelical Christians. The dispute is on eternal hell for the unbelievers. Their point is God has to do that or he wouldn't be just. I claim that is not justice and they are trying to stand the word on its head.

 

I am still hoping the poster was being facetious but I'm not sure. Either way it is a very illustrative post.

 

[note:Vlad Tepes is also known as Count Dracula or Vlad the impaler]

 

 

 

 

theist just to dispute your concept of justice. Many of our predecessors including Draco of Greece, Ghenghis Khan of the Mongols, and Vlad Tepes all had "one penalty for all crimes" jurisdictions, though seemingly harsh-it always lowered the crime rate and made it possible to have such brags as " a virgin could travel the empire by herself with a sack of gold and not be molested". Invariably a "reformer" would come along and soften the laws-and crime would return.

 

(let me quickly give the other side from the same historical viewpoint. A peasants revolution in China was once triggered by similiar "Draconian" laws.

 

"Brothers, what is the penalty for being late to harvest?" answer "Death"

"What is the penalty for revolution?" answer "Death"

"Well,brothers;we are going to be late to harvest.")

 

My point is that one punishment for all crimes has not always been viewed as injustice.

 

 

[stonehearted]

theist: I have been discussing this point on another forum with some

fundamantalist evangelical Christians. The dispute is on eternal hell for the unbelievers. Their point is God has to do that or he wouldn't be just. I claim that is not justice and they are trying to stand the word on its head.

 

Babhru: Even if it were justice, even they say, I believe, that God is love (or, as in Forster's Passage to India, "God si love"). Love and mercy trump justice.

[theist]

Yes is does trump it. I just responded there. Justice (karmic law)actually wears down the soul to seek mercy. Mercy when granted brings us into a loving relationship with the Lord. At which case there is even no longer a need for mercy. It all leads to Krsna preme doesn't it?

[theist]

There is some mean spiritedness at work here. I think they actually like the thought of God eternally tormenting someone else. Anybody but me and my friends.

[stonehearted]

theist: Justice (karmic law)actually wears down the soul to seek mercy.

 

Well said. And sometimes, as with many of us, mercy comes unbidden, which is why it's called causeless mercy. I was told in 1970 or '71 that Srila Prabhupada asserted that Lord Chaitanya and Nityananda came to save the most fallen first. So here we are; what's everyone else's problem? (I suspect that the problem is that too many of us--beginning with me--don't work hard enough to make that mercy readily accessible to them.)

[stonehearted]

theist: There is some mean spiritedness at work here. I think they actually like the thought of God eternally tormenting someone else.

 

Babhru: I think you're right. They have a weird concept of God: someone sitting around waiting to be pissed off (pardon my English). Is it the Frist Commandment where God admits He's a jealous God?

 

t: Anybody but me and my friends.

 

B: Bingo! We're special! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

Theist, there is a fundamental flaw in eternal damnation that goes something like this.

 

First, it is generally accepted around the world that God created us to enjoy with him. Or if you don't know exactly why we were created, it is "very weird" to consider that He created us just to throw us eternally in hell. So obviously, there is some other intent.

 

Now, God is well known to be ominipotent, omnipresent, etc. That is the general definition, so let's not forget this.

 

Now, here's where the bad philosophy comes in...

 

If an immortal soul or souls is condemned to hell eternally, doesn't that defeat God's original intention for the living entitites?

 

And if that's the case, we must further ask does God frustrate His original puspose like that?

 

And we can further ask, is that befitting an omnipotent God?

 

So now the beautiful philosophy of Krsna consciousness emerges. Souls falling from the eternal spiritual world to the great wheel of samsara and reincarnatio in the material world to eventually return to their spiritual posts, allows for God purposes to be served and also our free will. So it is perfect spiritual philosophy.

 

Guess Guest.

[Gauracandra]

This week’s Srila Siddhaswarupananda television program is a discussion of the Bhagavad-Gita verse 8:22.

 

“The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is greater than all, is attainable by unalloyed devotion. Although He is present in His abode, He is all-pervading, and everything is situated within Him.”

 

There are many points here. Lets start with a look at the first sentence. The first sentence declares that God is attainable. Some people are taught that God must remain a mystery. He must be distant. But here it is stated that God can be attained. He can be your master, your friend, your beloved. This is the first point.

 

The second point is that the Supreme Person can be attained by unalloyed devotion. This means unseparated, undeviated devotion. Devotion refers not simply sentiment, but engaging your whole life in His service.

 

In the New Testament Jesus declares that he has come to give “good news”. What is this good news? That God is attainable. If you are looking for a perfect master, protector, friend, or companion, that is God. God is the greatest and He is attainable.

 

How? By offering love. Loving not just with feelings, but with one’s whole heart, mind, and entire being. This is good news. God is not to be feared but to be loved. He is attainable.

 

So God is attainable. How do you get to see God? By unalloyed devotion. Why? Because if you love Him you have Him.

 

There is a story of Mother Yasoda. She had such a wonderful love that even the greatest saints found it difficult to understand. She loves God as her child. The greatest of all plays the role of a child.

 

Everyone is looking for the perfect child. There was a report recently that said that many young girls, 15 or 16, purposely get pregnant just so that they can have a child to love. They want a child that they can love. So God can also be loved as one’s child. We can discuss this in detail in the future.

 

But Mother Yasoda does not see Him as God. The intimacy is so great that she didn’t see Him in any way as someone to be feared. God will reciprocate with you based on how you wish to relate to God.

 

There is one story where Krsna has been naughty. I forget what He did exactly. But He is always doing bad things like breaking the butter churn, feeding the monkeys yogurt, eating mud. So Mother Yasoda decides to tie Him up as a punishment. She brings some rope and begins to tie Him up, but soon realizes that the rope is too short. So she goes back for more rope, and again it is all too short, by the same amount it was before. So again she gets even more rope, and again it is too short. She gets so frustrated that she was going to cry. So Gopala, who is self-sufficient, agrees to be bound up by Mother Yasoda.

 

The point of this pastime is that only love can bind the Lord. In the Sri Isopanisad it says that He is faster than the fastest. The Mohammedans also describe God as the most clever. I forget the name they give. But God is the wisest, the most powerful. No one can defeat Him in any way. He is a mystery even to the great religionists. But by love He agrees to be bound. In other words, God cannot be caught or bound except by unconditional, undeviating love. Nothing else.

 

Mystic powers won’t help you. Sense perception won’t help. Mental speculation won’t help. But if you love God you will always thing of how to please Him. This is spiritual life. Not by works, not by worship to demigods, not by hospitals, not by bodily destructive methods. Only love. If you love Him you have Him.

 

One day a boy wrote to me from Australia. He said that he chants, and looks at the deities and all he hears are words, or sees stone. So he has come here to Hawaii so that I will show him God. He is here in this audience.

 

The problem is this person’s eyes cannot see the Supreme Lord. Two people hear the names of God. One experiences nothing. The other experiences being with God. On the absolute platform everything is absolute. God and His names are non-different. The deity and God are the same.

 

God cannot be attained except by purifying the heart by tears of love. One’s whole life must be singularly pointed. Not chasing looking after God. Even if you see God with your eyes you won’t appreciate Him. He is there. The second part of this verse says that He is all pervading. He is in His abode. And yet everything is in Him, and He is all pervading. You could not get away from God even if you wanted to.

 

Try to fully comprehend this situation. He is not hiding. He is available at any time. He is His names. He is there as the deity. He is in scripture. He is in your heart. There is no problem in finding Him, you simply need to appreciate Him. To see God means to love God. So you must have a systematic cultivation of love for Him. This is called Bhakti. If you want God then take up this practice of Bhakti – devotion.