The concept of one-ness and distinct-ness (non difference and difference)(1)

[anadi]

The concept of acintya bhedaabheda tattva

The inconceivable difference and nondifference.

 

acintya bhedaabheda tattva

is the inconceivable relatioship of <font color="blue"> simultaneous </font color>

difference <font color="blue"> (being distinct)</font color> and non difference <font color="blue"> (being one) </font color>

existing between

a) the inconceivable and unlimitedly powerful <font color="red"> para tattva, saktiman</font color> and

b) <font color="red"> his energy para shakti </font color> which comprise

the aggregate of substance which are transformations of purna shakti,

<font color="blue"> which includes tatashta (marginal) energy, where jiva belongs to</font color> .

 

This principle has been called acintya (inconceivable) because

it is accessible only by apauruseya sabda (transcendental sound)

It is <font color="red"> inaccessible to logic, arguments</font color> and

the <font color="blue"> jiva's insignificant thinking capacity</font color> , although we can know it if we accept the statements of the sastra <font color="blue"> through guru parampara</font color> .

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in Jaiva Dharma

<font color="blue"> Para sakti </font color> (serving saktiman) displays its prowess (vikrama)

in inconceivable ways.

<font color="blue"> Only three features</font color> of vikrama

are known to the jiva

1. cit vikrama, the internal energy (hladini, sandini and samvit)

2. tatastha vikrama, the marginal energy (jiva)

3. acit vikrama, the external energy or the illusion generating potency (of the material world).

 

To say that the concept acintya bhedaabheda tattva is applicable only to tatastha sakti in relation to saktiman, (the possessor of energy) is a limitation of the concept, as I will try to prove it.

 

[Guest guest]

 

you need to understand what the concept is behind the words.

 

god has one energy,manifested in different ways.

 

We are one with god, yet have an identity

that is distinct from god.

 

that is achintya bheda abheda

 

the personal expansions ,extensions and potencies of god,are not distinct form each other, they are explained that way for our convenience,

but they are all ONE potency.

 

just like krishna ,balarama,sadasiva,mahavisnu,narayana

and ramachandra are all the same person, displaying different qualities and forms and pastimes and functions,

also Radha, the gopis, lakshmi,durga, parvati,

are also all one person, Radha and Krishna

are identical, they are one person, displaying

different forms,qualties, pastimes,functions.

 

the difference is not like the difference between the jiva and god, we are not different like they are, we are

distinct minute parts of the whole, they are whole

parts of the whole, each fully the supreme being,

all the One supreme absolute godhead, we are

not one and different like them, we are not independent

omniscient potency, we are minute and distinct

from the whole, at the same time we are part of the whole,like sparks of a fire, they are all the fire

itself, we are part of them, they are all one,

we are many.

 

 

this is from Srila Prabhupada

 

 

“It is not that Radharani is separate from Krishna. Radharani is also Krishna, for there is no difference between the energy and the energetic. Without energy, there is no meaning to the energetic, and without the energetic there is no meaning to the energy. Similarly, without Radha there is no meaning to Krishna and without Krishna there is no meaning to Radha. Because of this, the Vaisnava philosophy first of all pays obeisances to and worships the internal pleasure potency of the Supreme Lord. Thus the Lord and His potency are always referred to as Radha-Krishna. Similarly those who worship Narayana first utter the name of Laksmi, as Laksmi-Narayana. Similarly those who worship Lord Rama first utter the name of Sita. In any case – Sita-Rama, Radha-Krishna, Laksmi-Narayana – the potency always comes first.

 

“Radha and Krishna are one, and when Krishna desires to enjoy pleasure, He manifests Himself as Radharani. The spiritual exchange of love between Radha and Krishna is the actual display of the internal pleasure potency of Krishna.”

 

(From the Introduction to the Sri by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada)

 

 

radha-krsna pranaya-vikrtir hladini saktir asmad

ekatmanau api bhuvipura deha-bhedam gatau tau

caitanyakhyam prakatam adhuna tad-dvayam caikyam aptam

radha-bhava-dyuti-suvalitam naumi krsna-svarupam

 

"The loving affairs of Radha Krishna are transcendental manifestations of the Lord's internal pleasure-giving potency. Although Radha and Krishna are one in Their identity, They have separated Themselves eternally. Now these two transcendental identities have again united in the form of Sri Krishna Caitanya. I bow down to Him, who has manifested Himself with the sentiment and complexion of Srimati Radharani although He is Krishna Himself." (C.c. Adi 1.1.5)

 

 

Krishna says: acaryam mam vijaniyan

 

"One should know the acarya (guru) as Myself." (Bhag. 11.17.27)

 

This verse although generally taken literally to mean that the guru is nondifferent from Krishna also indicates that the guru is nondifferent than Srimati Radharani. Indeed the very 'Self' of Sri Krishna is Srimati Radharani.

 

swami B.G. Narasingha

 

 

"Please hear, O Narada, and I will tell you the meaning of these mantras. The material world is manifested by the Lord's maya potency and other external potencies. The spiritual world is manifested by the Lord's chit potency and other internal and everlasting spiritual potencies. The protector of these potencies is said to be the gopi Sri Radha, who is Lord Krishna's beloved. The transcendental goddess Sri Radha is the direct counterpart of Lord Sri Krishna. She is the central figure for all the goddesses of fortune. She is the pleasure potency of Lord Krishna. The wise say that She is the pleasure potency of Lord Krishna. Durga and the other goddesses in the world of the three modes are a million-millionth part of one of Her expansions. She is directly Goddess Maha-Lakshmi and Lord Krishna is Lord Narayana.

 

O best of sages, there is not the slightest difference between Them.

 

O best of sages, what more can I say? Nothing can exist without them. This universe made of spirit and matter together is Their potency. She is Durga and Lord Hari is Shiva. Lord Krishna is Indra and She is Shachi. She is Savitri and Lord Hari is Brahma. She is Dhumorna and Lord Hari is Yama. O Narada, please know that everything is Their potency. Even if I had many hundreds of years, I could not describe all Their glories."

 

Sanatkumara-samhita (skanda purana,Sadasiva answering

Narada's questions)

 

 

"O Krishna, I am Radha, who stays on Your chest during the rasa dance in Vrindavan forest."

 

Thus from Durga-devi's words we can understand that the Lord does not have two potencies. There is only one potency, who manifests Herself as the spiritual potency Radhika and the material potency Visnu-maya. When the potency is free from the material modes, she is called the spiritual potency, and when she is within the sphere of the material modes, she is called the material potency.

 

jaiva dharma Bhaktivinode Thakur

 

 

 

 

 

Post Extras:

[Guest guest]

To understand the meaning of sakti we can look at the explanations of

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Jaiva Dharma Prameya Sakti Tattva

Translated by my gurudeva Srila BV Narayana Maharaja

 

„The vedica mantras describe the three types of sakti of that self manifested tattva (saktiman, the possessor of sakti) as follows (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.16)

 

That Supreme Soul is omniscient and the creator of the world. He is self born (atma yoni), the controller of kala (time), the knower of all, the Isvara of pradhana (external energy, maha maya sakti), and the Isvara of all ksetrajnas (jiva, the manifestation of the tatashta sakti, the marginal energy). He is full of all transcendental qualities and beyond all material qualities, yet He is their master (ksetrajna pati as controller of the cit sakti (the internal energy). He binds the jiva in samsara, places them in their positions, and liberates them from it.”

 

Comenting this verse Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura states:

“This mantra describes the three states of para sakti.

The word pradhana denotes the external energy, maha maya sakti;

the word ksetrejna denotes the marginal energy, jiva, the manifestation of the tatashta sakti,

the word ksetrajna pati refers to the internal energy, cit sakti.”

 

acintya bhedaabheda tattva

the inconceivable relatioship of simultaneous

difference (being distinct) and non difference (being one)

existing between

a) the inconceivable and unlimitedly powerful para tattva, saktiman and

b) his energy para shakti

 

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in Jaiva Dharma

Para sakti (serving saktiman) displays its prowess (vikrama)

in inconceivable ways.

Only three features of vikrama

are known to the jiva

1. cit vikrama, the internal energy (hladini, sandini and samvit)

2. tatastha vikrama, the marginal energy (jiva)

3. acit vikrama, the external energy or the illusion generating potency (of the material world).

 

[anadi]

To understand the meaning of sakti we can look at the explanations of

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in <font color="blue"> Jaiva Dharma Prameya Sakti Tattva</font color>

Translated by my gurudeva Srila BV Narayana Maharaja

 

„The vedica mantras describe the <font color="red"> three types of sakti</font color> of that self manifested tattva ( <font color="red"> saktiman, the possessor of sakti</font color> ) as follows (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.16)

 

That Supreme Soul is omniscient and the creator of the world. He is self born (atma yoni), the controller of kala (time), the knower of all, the <font color="blue"> Isvara of </font color> pradhana ( <font color="blue"> external energy</font color> , maha maya sakti), and the <font color="blue"> Isvara of</font color> all ksetrajnas (jiva, the manifestation of the tatashta sakti, <font color="blue"> the marginal energy</font color> ). He is full of all transcendental qualities and beyond all material qualities, yet He is their master (ksetrajna pati as <font color="blue"> Isvara of </font color> the cit sakti ( <font color="blue"> the internal energy</font color> ). He binds the jiva in samsara, places them in their positions, and liberates them from it.”

 

Comenting this verse Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura states:

“This mantra describes <font color="red"> the three states of para sakti</font color> .

The word pradhana denotes the external energy, maha maya sakti;

the word ksetrejna denotes the marginal energy, jiva, the manifestation of the tatashta sakti,

the word ksetrajna pati refers to the internal energy, cit sakti.”

 

acintya bhedaabheda tattva

the inconceivable relatioship of <font color="blue"> simultaneous

difference </font color> (being distinct) and non difference (being one)

existing <font color="blue"> between</font color>

a) the inconceivable and unlimitedly powerful <font color="blue"> para tattva</font color> , saktiman and

b) his energy <font color="blue"> para shakti </font color>

 

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in Jaiva Dharma

Para sakti (serving saktiman) displays its prowess (vikrama)

in inconceivable ways.

Only three features of vikrama

are known to the jiva

1. cit vikrama, the internal energy (hladini, sandini and samvit)

2. tatastha vikrama, the marginal energy (jiva)

3. acit vikrama, the external energy or the illusion generating potency (of the material world).

[Guest guest]

Bhakti sastri. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

 

as long as you continue to think that Radha

and Krishna are not identical, which means

exactly the same, no difference whatsoever,

then you will continue in your confused interpretations

of siddhanta,mistaking the truth for illusion,

and illusion for truth.

 

you quote Bhaktivinode out of context, and think this proves your point, it doesn't, it just points out

the problem you have.

 

by prematurely hearing from unauthorized sources,

the true menaing of what he is saying in jaiva dharma

and elsewhere is lost to you.

 

you take it all literally, not knowing that what Bhaktivinode is describing has nothing to do with what you

are trying to prove, that Radha and Krishna and the gopis

are not identical, even though I have shown you

many sources that state they are.

 

When it says that Radha and Krishna are eternally one,

and have seperated eternally, this concept is lost on you.

 

one person ,two forms, that is all it means,

nothing else.

 

if it meant like you think,one person into

two persons, then they would not be called

identical.

 

That is our position, god is one person

and has become many persons,the jivas,

achintya bheda abheda, one and different,

not one and identical.

 

this is yours and others confused ideas,

that Radha and Krishna are like Krishna

and jiva.

 

no, like i have shown from authorized sources,

Radha and Krishna are one and the same,identical,

the only difference is i their appearence,

their bodies, their dress, their activities,

and their personalites, one male,

one female,both one and the same person.

 

when you read descriptions of asraya and the like,

that is meant in another context, it refers to the rasa

that is apparent in Vraja, to the vrijabasis, it is not

to be taken as literal absolute truth.

 

to the educated person who can see the true nature

of vraja lila, what is described as the rasa between Radha

and Krishna and the details of that rasa has another

meaning, what is described is the way it appears

to the residents of vraja, but internally it has

another meaning, and that is understood when you

understand the true nature of Radha ,Krishna,

and the gopis as being all, one and the same person.

 

then the rasa described between them takes on a different

meaning, it is telling how Radha and the gopis are feeling

towards the gopas, what their rasa is, what is described

as the external rasa between Radha ,Krishna and the gopis, is meant to teach the rasa between Radha ,the gopis(her expansions) and the gopas, the truth is understood

only when you understand first that Radha and Krishna

are identical, no difference, then and only then

can the rest be properly understood and be beneficial

for you.

 

 

[Guest guest]

above i quote jaiva dharma, where Bhaktivinode says

that in reality there is only one energy of god,

different name are given depending on how that one energy

is manifesting, either for pleasure pastimes As Radhika,

or in the material world as Visnu-maya.

 

but they are in reality only names given to explain

a single energy or being, when that being is engaged

in pleasure pastimes, he says that person or

energy is called Radhika, Radha.

 

when that same energy or person is manifesting activities in the material realm , then that energy is Visnu.

 

both the same,one person,or energy, with different

designations depending on the activity that person

or energy is engaged in.

 

not that there is two energies,or many energies, ONLY

one, one person,ultimately who is engaged in

pleasure pastimes, Radhika, the highest inner

self of god, and Visnu is for the material

realm, lord of the Material realm,the same person as Radhika,

but under another name due to engaging in different

activity.

 

Krishna is another aspect of Radhika, not another

person or energy, only the jivas are distinct.

[anadi]

<font color="red"> All is God is a distortion of the truth </font color> and is the conception of the mayavadis,

(who denie the difference existing in the spiritual world, having many other misconceptions)

 

The mayavadis say that when God comes in maya-jagat He transforms Himself,

And even the material world is a transformation of God.

 

The vaisnavas say that jagat maya is a transformation of para sakti,

not of saktiman

And <font color="blue"> God is different from His shakti</font color> (bheda)

<font color="red"> although they are one</font color> , (abheda)

and this is <font color="green"> inconceivable </font color> (aciyntia)

for those persons who have not receive the mercy of bhagavan.

 

<font color="red"> The other half of the truth</font color> is that apart God

there is His energy Para sakti.

 

[sanatana]

All Glories to Lord Gauranga Nitai!

 

In other words, my dear Anadi Prabhu, we are one as the eternal servant of Radha-Krsna, yet we are different in our principles in life, in the way we worship God, in the culture we belong, etc.

But even if we differ yet we are brothers in Krsna. If you and I were Christians, we are brothers in Christ.

Or if you were Hindu and I a Muslim, still, we are brothers of a Universal God, Bathala Krsna.

Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, etc. It won`t matter provided we follow Lord Chaitanya`s philosophy of Simultaneously One yet Different.

That is the only way we can achieve long lasting peace in this age of Kali and that is to consider each human being as our brother or sister belonging to one merciful and compassionate God( Krsna-Allah-Buddha-Swamijesus).

 

Hare Krsna

------------

[anadi]

Dear Sanatana Prabhu

dandavat pranam,

you have a wonderful name.

 

yes WE (you and I) WE are brothers because our same mood,

as servants of the divine couple Radha Krsna, belonging the paramapara of Mahaprabhu, folowing the mood of Rupa Gosvami.

 

Concernig the other jiva we cannot say much.

 

Maybe only according to tattva (phylosophical principle)

we can say that we are all tatastha shakti (marginal energy)and so seen

we can call ourselves children of God,

having the same father because we come from the glance of Maha Visnu in tatastha region.

But realy we are from

Para Sakti, Srimati Radhika.

[sanatana]

Yes, Anadi Prabhu, you are correct!

We all came from Srimati Radharani.

Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who is Lord Krsna in fact incarnated to this world 500 yrs. ago for the very reason that God wanted to know more about His internal pleasure potency, Radha. Srila Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who is God Himself is the embodiment of Radha-Krsna.

Radha-Krsna therefore is Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

Since we are a creation of Srimati Radharani then we are Lord Krsna`s internal pleasure potency of which He wants to play and enjoy with.

For Lord Krsna to understand us, He came forth to this world as Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

We must therefore worship Srimati Radharani so She could give us the opportunity to embrace and dance with Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu by becoming a pure-devotee of Lord Krsna.

 

Hare Krsna

----------

[Guest guest]

Lord Caitanya really sourse Radha-Krisna.

[anadi]

I think you are one of the very few that understand siddhanta.

What do you think about the statement

 

"Lord Caitanya (is)really (the) sourse (of) Radha-Krisna."

Can you give some comment?

 

[Guest guest]

“Radha and Krishna are one, and when Krishna desires to enjoy pleasure, He manifests Himself as Radharani. The spiritual exchange of love between Radha and Krishna is the actual display of the internal pleasure potency of Krishna.”

 

A.C. Bhaktivedanta

 

 

you need to understand these words.

here Srila Prabhupada explains, Radha and Krishna

are one identity,when Krishna desires to enjoy pleasure

he becomes Radha.

 

then He describes the spiritual exchange of love between Radha and Krishna is actually the DISPLAY of the internal

pleasure potency, or Radha.

 

in other words they are one person, the display of their love is Radha's doing, Krishna and Radha are one person

but the dominant persona is Radha.

 

 

"Thus from Durga-devi's words we can understand that the Lord does not have two potencies. There is only one potency, who manifests Herself as the spiritual potency Radhika and the material potency Visnu-maya. When the potency is free from the material modes, she is called the spiritual potency, and when she is within the sphere of the material modes, she is called the material potency."

 

Bhaktivinode Thakur Jaiva Dharma

 

here we see where you are confused, we are being told

that god in reality is one,and has only one energy,

that one energy is described in different terms according to the function that is being performed.

 

when that one enrgy is performing enjoying activities

she is known as Radhika.

 

when that same one enrgy is performing activities in

the material realm , she is called Visnu maya.

 

 

this following is from A.C.Bhaktivedanta

 

“It is not that Radharani is separate from Krishna. Radharani is also Krishna, for there is no difference between the energy and the energetic. Without energy, there is no meaning to the energetic, and without the energetic there is no meaning to the energy. Similarly, without Radha there is no meaning to Krishna and without Krishna there is no meaning to Radha. Because of this, the Vaisnava philosophy first of all pays obeisances to and worships the internal pleasure potency of the Supreme Lord. Thus the Lord and His potency are always referred to as Radha-Krishna. Similarly those who worship Narayana first utter the name of Laksmi, as Laksmi-Narayana. Similarly those who worship Lord Rama first utter the name of Sita. In any case – Sita-Rama, Radha-Krishna, Laksmi-Narayana – the potency always comes first."

 

Here we see more of the same, "THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE

BETWEEN THE ENRGY AND THE ENERGETIC"

 

"IT IS NOT THAT RADHARANI IS SEPERATE FROM KRISHNA

RADHARANI IS ALSO KRISHNA"

 

 

So we need to understand the absolute nature of Krishna lila

not from our own perspective,but from authorized sources,

if your concept or anyone else's deviates from what I have shown, it is wrong,period.

 

To deny the oneness of Radha ,Krishna,and the various manifestations of the one supreme lord, and consider that to be a mayavadi conclusion ,is only your confusion.

 

Mayavadi philosophy is that the jiva and god are eternally

non distinct.

 

Gaudiya philosophy is that God and jiva are partially one

and partially distinct.

 

not that the various manifestations of God's potency

are all one and different,only the jiva is one and different, everything else as Bhaktivinode has said

is comprised of ONE energy, and ONLY described

by different terms depending on the activity performed.

 

 

i hope you can see the error of your ways, acceptance

of the previous acharyas will give success, denial of their

realizations will cause you only confusion and

ultimately leave you in illusion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[anadi]

Acintya bheda abheda tattva

<font color="red"> they </font color> are all one and different

related to saktiman tattva

 

 

Is there any difference between Lord Rama and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabu?

Oh, there is a lot of difference.

Is there any need, to count all these differences?

No, no, but <font color="blue"> Lord Rama and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabu are same!</font color>

 

<font color="red"> How same?</font color>

They are the same bhagavan.

What is the meaning?

<font color="red"> Bhagavan is one person!</font color>

Oh, not like this. Bhagavan is not one person.

Bhagavan is the principle (tattva) of different persons.

 

Lord Rama is one person, and He is bhagavan.

Lord Caitanya is one person, and He is also bhagavan.

<font color="red"> So they are the same bhagavan!</font color>

Don't start again!

Oh, I only wanted to say, They are the same priciple (saktiman tattva)

and they are different persons.

<font color="blue"> How different?</font color>

Oh, they have different forms, different colours, some different moods, some different associates, different residence...

Are these differences an illusion?

Oh, no they are eternal.

 

So are Lord Rama and Sri Caitanya Mahprabhu, eternally different, and the same?

All forms of bhagavan are eternally different and the same

But the adi purus and param isvara is ?

Govindam adi purusam tam aham bhajami, (Vraja Krsna)

 

[anadi]

I will give a short comment on the statement

"Lord Caitanya (is) really (the) sourse (of) Radha-Krisna."

 

To explain the appearance of Sri Caitanya it was said that

 

"The swayam rupa bhagavan,

the Supreme Godhead <font color="red"> par excellence</font color> as <font color="blue"> Madhurya Vigraha</font color>

eternally dwells in His Transcendental Plane of Goloka morphologically

in His Two Moiety counter Wholes

as the container of all love (asraya vigraha):

the <font color="blue"> Hladini Svarupini Sri Radhika</font color> , and

as the only object of love (visaya vigraha):

<font color="blue"> Rasa raja</font color> akhila rasa amrita murti dvi buja murali dhara <font color="blue"> Syama</font color> sundara Sri Krsna,

<font color="red"> but ontologically one and the same</font color> .

 

No doubt Both the Counter Whole Moieties are inseparable,

(expressed in their unequaled feelings, <font color="red"> especially high in the bhava</font color> of Srimati Radhika)(But!)

in the ontology of transcendental love dalliance , Love cannot become sweetened without vipralambha (vina pralambhena sambhoga na pusti mashnute) which is only a conception existing in Goloka (in the heart of Srimati Radhika), although Both feel total void

for even a moment of separation.

 

In His <font color="red"> Audarya Svarupa </font color> (vigraha):

maha bhava svarupa Sri Gaura Chandra

hiding His Syama sundara Hue

<font color="red"> enveloped within the Radha bhava </font color> dyutisubalitam,

united with Sri Radhika ontologically becoming both the Moiety Counter Wholes one

and the same which also dwells at that Goloka in another chamber. "

 

to say

"Lord Caitanya (is) really (the) sourse (of) Radha-Krisna."

It means that one projects his material thinking

in terms of cause and effect, and material time perception

on the realm of the Absolute.

 

Maybe somebody has a better explanation.

 

Your unqualified servant anadi krsna dasa

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

you don't seem to be able to understand shastra,

so i'll try my own words.

 

lets see, hmmm... how can i know of what i speak, since you are master of reality

and therefore anything that is not in line with your perfected visions, that must be wrong.

 

ho hum....

 

It's really quite simple, but due to your

backwards mentality the truth is hidden from you, take a look at your attitude is your experience with these topics such that you think yourself master of them ?

 

i know you're not.

 

How can i put this.....

 

god is one person, an infinite multi dimensional

field of super conscious omnipotent energy,

a single conscious person.

 

we are little tiny bits that have been given

individual identity, part of that infinite being, yet distinct, i am sure you understand this.

 

the problem you masters(?) of reality have

is understanding the nature of the one infinite

supre duper splediforous person.

 

when that being uses a human form,male ,female,

animal , whatever, they are all still the same infinite ball of super conscious energy, not two

, just the one all pervading consciousness,

displaying a variety of attributes depending

on the avatar, but all still the same all pervading consciousness.

 

in fact matter is that supre conscious energy

in a less subtle form, all matter is comprised

of consciousz energy, in expirements scientists

have been baffled by the way electrons act

when seperated from all else, they behave as if they have will and consciousness, well in fact they are consciousness, God's consciousness is fully present everywhere,although the full personality traits are only displayed

in Radha and Krishna.

 

still there is only one supreme being.

 

If you think that person is interested in playing games

with him/her self, then i guess

you are not ready for the obvious truth.

 

[Guest guest]

 

to the lord,and you will feeel allright.

 

 

what i find strange is that christians have a better

understanding of god's personas then you do.

 

In their trinity conception, the father ,sone and holy spirit are all considered to be one in three.

 

All the same being displaying different personas.

 

like you can be a father, a disciple, or a guru at the same time to different people.

 

you are displaying different personas as guru,father,

and disciple, but you are fully the same person

regardless of what role you are displaying or acting out as.

 

that is the christian concept, and is also the Vaisnava

concept, one God , many avatars displaying different

amounts and types of attributes or personal

traits or personality, all still the same complete

whole,

 

as the isa upanisad states , the supreme whole is

fully whole in all expansions, just like you are fully

you regardless of what role you are performing,

so god is the same, fully god everywhere,all the time,

in every circumstance. Rama,Sita,Krishna,Radha,

all are the one whole suprem being,full and complete,

they are not different, only displaying different

personas.

 

Not your polytheistic dogma, that is illusory and

carries no weight or substance,whatsoever.

[anadi]

related to the spiritual world

 

ONE AND MANY

 

 

 

In the spiritual world

all forms of bhagavan are

<font color="blue"> eternally different </font color> and <font color="red"> same</font color> .

 

If one sees no difference

it means he has no <font color="red"> mamata for hís Ista deva</font color> ,

And this is the case of the

impersonalists, the ones in shanta rasa

the ones in shanta rasa with some trace of dasya, which can be found in Vaikuntha,

(maybe also the christians)

and speculators .

 

Everybody <font color="red"> according his svarupa </font color> has an innate attraction

for a particular form of bhagavan, which is not an idol (material)

 

Only very rare beings have in their svarupa attraction to Vraja Krsna as their ista deva.

 

Murari Gupta could not give up the worship of his ista deva,Lord Ramacandra, even if Mahapabhu requested him.

Oh, he has mamata for His Lord Ramacandra.

For him is not that all are one.

Only materialists, cristians and speculators would think this is idol worship, they don't understand that the forms of the Lord are transcendental and possesing a particular fragrance.

 

More than that the acintya bheda abheda tattva

Is the very principle of the spiritual world

 

55. The Lord's paraphernalia,

names, pastimes and favourite abodes

are all eternal and real.

Know that they are both <font color="red"> one and many</font color> ,

 

55. spoken by Narada Muni in Brihad Bhagavatamrita

 

One needs mamata to realize this simple truth.

But mamata comes in rati.

 

[Guest guest]

 

Bhaskara calls his philosophy bhedabheda,

it means one and different.

 

yet it is completely different then vaisnava bhedabheda.

 

Bhaskaras bhedabheda believes the jiva is different

then god only while in maya,the material world,

upon liberation the jiva become one with god,

losing distinction.

 

Vaisnava behdabheda is different, believing the jiva

is eternally one and different with god.

 

Both call their philosophy one and different,bhedabheda,

but have different meanings.

 

god is one,aboslutely, the difference between the expansions, are not like the difference between jiva

and god.

 

they are different ONLY in appearence, activity, and

persona, they are all ONE person different personas.

 

 

 

 

sarva-bhuta-sthitam yo mam

bhajaty ekatvam asthitah

sarvatha vartamano ’pi

sa yogi mayi vartate

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

 

Such a yogi, who engages in the worshipful service of the Supersoul, knowing that I and the Supersoul are one, remains always in Me in all circumstances.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

 

A yogi who is practicing meditation on the Supersoul sees within himself the plenary portion of Krishna as Vishnu—with four hands, holding conchshell, wheel, club and lotus flower. The yogi should know that Vishnu is not different from Krishna. Krishna in this form of Supersoul is situated in everyone’s heart. Furthermore, there is no difference between the innumerable Supersouls present in the innumerable hearts of living entities. Nor is there a difference between a Krishna conscious person always engaged in the transcendental loving service of Krishna and a perfect yogi engaged in meditation on the Supersoul. The yogi in Krishna consciousness—even though he may be engaged in various activities while in material existence—remains always situated in Krishna. This is confirmed in the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu (1.2.187) of Srila Rupa Gosvami: nikhilasv apy avasthasu jivan-muktah sa ucyate. A devotee of the Lord, always acting in Krishna consciousness, is automatically liberated. In the Narada-pancaratra this is confirmed in this way:

 

 

 

dik-kalady-anavacchinne

krsne ceto vidhaya ca

tan-mayo bhavati ksipram

jivo brahmani yojayet

 

 

 

“By concentrating one’s attention on the transcendental form of Krishna, who is all-pervading and beyond time and space, one becomes absorbed in thinking of Krishna and then attains the happy state of transcendental association with Him.”

 

 

 

Krishna consciousness is the highest stage of trance in yoga practice. This very understanding that Krishna is present as Paramatma in everyone’s heart makes the yogi faultless. The Vedas (Gopala-tapani Upanishad 1.21) confirm this inconceivable potency of the Lord as follows: eko ’pi san bahudha yo ’vabhati. “Although the Lord is one, He is present in innumerable hearts as many.” Similarly, in the

 

 

 

smriti-shastra it is said:

eka eva paro vishnuh

sarva-vyapi na samsayah

aisvaryad rupam ekam ca

surya-vat bahudheyate

 

 

 

“Vishnu is one, and yet He is certainly all-pervading. By His inconceivable potency, in spite of His one form, He is present everywhere, as the sun appears in many places at once.”

 

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Bhagavad gita as it is

 

 

 

 

 

[anadi]

Srila BV Svami Prabhupada condemned very vehemently the opinion here held by some person (that not understand that the Lord is one but simultaneous different, bheda abheda tattva)

In his long purport to the verse 90 Ch.8 from Madya lila Srila BV Svami Prabhupada says:

 

"It is a <font color="red"> completely mistaken idea</font color> that <font color="blue"> one can worship Krsna in any form</font color> or in any way and still attain the ultimate result of receiving the favor of the Lord. This is a decision made by <font color="blue"> gross materialists.</font color>

 

Impersonal realization of the Absolute Truth is certainly transcendental, but this does not mean that one who has attained this realization can understand the sac-cid-ananda form of the Lord.

Similarly, Paramatma realization--realization of the plenary expansion of the Absolute Truth within everyone's heart--is also an incomplete understanding of the Absolute Truth.

 

Even a devotee of the Personality of Godhead Narayana cannot actually understand the transcendental attractive features of Krsna.

Indeed, <font color="red"> a devotee of Krsna </font color> who is attached to the sublime attractive features of the Lord <font color="red"> does not consider Narayana very important. </font color>

 

When the gopis sometimes saw Krsna in the form of Narayana, <font color="blue"> they were not very attracted to Him</font color> . The gopis never addressed Krsna as Rukmini-ramana. Krsna's devotees in Vrndavana address Him as Radharamana, Nandanandana and Yasodanandana, but not as Vasudeva-nandana or Devaki-nandana.

 

Although <font color="red"> according to the material conception</font color> Narayana, Rukmini-ramana and Krsna <font color="blue"> are one and the same</font color> , in the spiritual world one cannot use the name Rukmini-ramana or Narayana in place of the name Krsna.

If one does so <font color="blue"> out of a poor fund of knowledge</font color> , his mellow with the Lord becomes <font color="blue"> spiritually faulty </font color> and is called rasabhasa, an overlapping of transcendental mellows. <font color="blue"> The advanced devotee </font color> who has actually realized the transcendental features of the Lord will not commit the mistake of creating a rasabhasa situation by using one name for another. <font color="red"> Because of the influence of Kali-yuga</font color> , there is much rasabhasa in the name of extravagance and liberal-mindedness. <font color="red"> Such fanaticism is not very much appreciated by pure devotees</font color> ."

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says:

Don't criticize anyone because faith is according to eligibility

and everyone is working according their own eligibility.

Each person will gradually advance when the time is appropriate.

[Guest guest]

 

 

you simply misunderstand what he is saying,period.

 

God is one person.

 

the various manifestations of god as narayan, Rama,

vishnu, krishna, radha, etc, are one person.

 

the difference is in what is being displayed in that manifestation, not the actual person.

 

Krishna is the supreme male personality, this means

that all of Gods male personal traits are FULLY

present ONLY in Krishna, not narayana,not rama.

 

that does not mean that they are different people,

just displaying different amounts and types

of traits or attributes.

 

so, this does not mean that Rama is a different person then Krishna, or Radha, no, that is not what is meant.

 

Rasa bhasa is when you treat Krishna as you would treat

Narayana or Radha, or Rama.

 

Krishna wants to be approached in Vraja without the

pomp and majesty of Rama, who is king, they are both

the supreme being, not different people.

 

if you act as a father with your children,your children

can laugh and play with you, while your employess cannot,

that would not be appropriate, rasa bhasa.

[Guest guest]

 

 

so this is your misconception, you ignore where

the shastra tells us that god is one,that Krishna

is Radha, that Vishnu and Krishna are the same,

that they are all non different.

 

and then you focus where the shastra tells us there

is a difference in these manifestations, they tell

us that to treat them according to rasa,

to not treat Krishna in Vraja like Narayana,

that the various incarnations are different

in their respective roles they are playing.

 

You start with a faulty conclusion,then look for ways

to prove it.

 

Leading you to ignore what shastra says, and misinterpret

the parts you pay attention to .

 

what is the purpose of this ?

 

[gHari]

The problem lies in trying to see The Truth from our point of view, instead of from Sri Krsna's vantage point. His view is all that matters. It is His desire that determines reality. Deep down inside He knows that Sri Radha is a part of Him, but He is just too infatuated with Her loveliness to even consider the thought. And that is reality in our Lord's vision. That too must be ours.

 

gHari

[anadi]

This conception <font color="red"> all are same person </font color>

is not false

is only defective.

 

The defect there is that in such a conception there is

no question of ananya bhakti (one pointedness), which leads to raganuga.

 

Someone in vaidhi bhakti like Praladha Maharaja will see no difference there.

The jiva is fully unacquainted with the raganuga nature,

What to say of ragaatmika.

Only by the mercy of sadhu one can come in contact with this nature,

but the association which such a sadhu is extremely infrequent.

 

"When the gopis sometimes saw Krsna in the form of Narayana, they were not very attracted to Him . The gopis never addressed Krsna as Rukmini-ramana. Krsna's devotees in Vrndavana address Him as Radharamana, Nandanandana and Yasodanandana, but not as Vasudeva-nandana or Devaki-nandana.

 

Although according to the material conception Narayana, Rukmini-ramana and Krsna are one and the same , in the spiritual world one cannot use the name Rukmini-ramana or Narayana in place of the name Krsna. "