Scientific knowledge in ancient India

[Avinash]

I want to know about the knowledge of science and technology in ancient India. What exactly do we mean by ancient India? For the purpose of this thread, let me define ancient India as India before British came here.

It is very difficult to be unbiased in such topics. There are people who will interprete the ancient writings and the archaeological findings to prove that Indians were very advanced in the knowledge of science, even if that interpretation is very far-fetched. On the other hand, there are people who will outright reject any claim that ancient Indians had good knowledge of science; they will interprete the same writings and the same findings in entrirely different way.

 

So, I would like as many views as I can get on this topic. If you think that Indians were advanced in scientific knowledge, then post whatever evidence you have; post the relevant writings from ancient books, post the details of any relics or post anything that supports your view.

 

If somebody makes post trying to show the scientific knowledge of ancient Indians and you find that the "facts" mentioned in the post are wrong or the interpretation is not correct, then please provide your counter-arguments too.

Thank you.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna. Interesting topic.

 

I would say modern man does not know what high technology is. We've simply built some machines - at great endeavor - and because of this, we think ourselves the summit of knowledge and perfection.

 

But just look at what the ancients could do. I understand they could effect wonderful changes through mantras.

 

The brahmanas were like the scientists - and teachers. Following their prescribed dharma empowered them with lots of sakti. And many of them had their specializations.

 

When Drupada wanted a son who could kill Drona, he had to search far and wide for a brahmana scientist who had the technical training to effect that result.

 

In some ways, the ancient fire sacrifices were a test and demonstration of brahmana power. The success of the sacrifices was dependent of the brahmanas, and their power and authenticity was demonstrated in different ways. For example, a deer or horse may be put into a sacrificial fire but would emerge a human by the technology of the brahmans.

 

The ksatriyas had high technology of weapons by which the could employ wonderful effects like brahmastras or making the enemy sleep through the use of arrows and mantras. I heard they use to always guide their arrows to target with mantras too.

 

Then you have curses by pure individuals like Gandhari and so on.

 

So if one believes all these examples from scriptures and history, then the conclusion must be that they were technically far superior to us.

 

Guess Guest.

 

 

[Guest guest]

to see descriptions of advanced weapons.

today US is nowhere close to it.

 

read srimadh bhagavatam

and you will see that the theory of relativity was known to the vedic people, and planes and space vehicles were there.

 

but time now is not for wasting in just feeling good about our past, time is to prove that we hindus are best NOW,

and know how to solve ours as well others problems the world faces. any malpractice of dharma must stop.

 

what the invaders have done is that they stripped off our vedic heritage and culture from us. consequently many hindu think they are useless and the western is the best.

this is totally wrong. know the true vedic history and your glorious roots, but then live today in a way (vedic way) that solves hindu's and others problems of today and future.

 

never rely on outside help to solve own problems.

god helps those

who help themselves.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

 

[Avinash]

read srimadh bhagavatam

and you will see that the theory of relativity was known to the vedic people

 

Which verses in Bhagvatam show this?

[Avinash]

Mahabharata, Ramayana, Purana etc. can be termed as mere stories.

 

I am not saying that these can't talk about real incidents. But are there stronger evidences for the knwledge of science in ancient India?

[Guest guest]

Avinash, so you should have just stated that you want mundane proof. But even that empirical process is subject to mistakes, interpretation, etc. Good luck.

[Guest guest]

"Mahabharata, Ramayana, Purana etc. can be termed as mere stories."

 

sri prabhupada did not say that.

are you any hgher authrority than him??

 

he and other aachryas have said tht one has to accept the veeic literature as it is. else it doen not help.

today you reject one part , tomorrow another, and finally you reject the whole scriptuere. that is not hindu like.

 

when you accept scriptues as real history,

i would tell which chapter of bhagavatam talks about relativity.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

 

[Avinash]

when you accept scriptues as real history,

i would tell which chapter of bhagavatam talks about relativity.

 

Fine, don't tell.

[Narayanidd]

My dear spirit soul,

please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

This is a very interesting topic. I enjoy the sciences and of course Krsna katha. I will take up the challenge and seek out some scriptural references for you.

 

Thanks for the challenge.

Your servant,

Narayani d.d.

[Narayanidd]

Canto 1, Ch.8 text 10-11

 

UttrA speaking to Lord Krsna after ASvatthAmA shot the brahmAstra.

 

abhidravati mAm ISa

Saras taptAyaso vibho

kAmaM dahatu mAM nAtha

mA me garbho nipAtyatAm

 

O my Lord, You are all-powerful. A fiery iron arrow is coming towards me fast. My Lord, let it burn me personally, if You so desire, but please do not let it burn me personally, if You so desire, but please do not let it burn and abort my embryo. Please do me this favor, My Lord.

 

sUta uvAca

upadhArya vacas tasyA

bhagavAn bhakta-vatsalaH

apANDavam idaM kartuM

drauNer astram abudhyata

 

Suta Gosvami said: Having patiently heard her words, Lord Sri Krsna, who is always very affectionate to His devotees, could at once understand that Asvatthama, the son of Dronacarya, had throw the brahmastra to finish the last life in the Pandava family.

 

Purport "The brahmastras are finer than the nuclear weapons. Asvatthama discharged the brahmastra simply to kill the Pandavas, namely the five brothers headed by Maharaj Yudisthira and their only grandson, who was lying in the womb of Uttra. Therefore the brahmastra, more effective and finer than the atomic weapons, was not as blind as the atomic bombs. When atomic bombs are discharged they do not discriminate between the target and others. Mainly the atomic bombs do harm to the innocent because there is no control. The brahmastra is not like that. It marks out the target and proceeds accordingly without harming the innocent...The brahmastra, the supreme weapon released by Asvatthama, was something similar to the nuclear weapon but with more radiation and heat. This brahmastra is the product of a more subtle science, being the product of a finer sound..."

 

We know for a fact that physical things have a certain vibration and that certain vibrations can destroy. For example in the 1920's i believe there was a bridge in Washington or Oregon that was literally torn apart because the wind blowing through the canyon it spand created the right sound to destroy it. The footage was incredible. A massive concrete and steel structure was moving like cloth in the wind. At present we don't have the technology to control sound or harness it as a weapon but Bhagavatam clearly states that the science of sending weapons by just a vibration of sound was known and used. More advanced? Definately.

 

I'll try to find more referances.

Your servant,

Narayani d.d.

[Guest guest]

"read srimadh bhagavatam

and you will see that the theory of relativity was known to the vedic people, and planes and space vehicles were there."

 

....then why didn't ancient Hindus use the knowledge to build jet planes during ancient times? Why wait for Wilbur and Oliver Wright to fly the first planes, Einstein to discover theory of relativity, Newton to discover the laws of motion, Marconi to invent wireless communications?? Is it possible to win noble prizes by reading the srimadh bhagavatam?

 

[Avinash]

Narayanidd ji,

You have given reference to show that the knowledge of weapons was very high.

 

How did that knowledge get lost over the period of time? Why didn't the knowledge was transferred from one generation to the next?

[DeepakM98]

Our shaastra's say the purana's are the fifth veda:

 

evam va are sya mahato bhutasya nihsvasitam etad yad rg-Veda yajur-Veda sama vedo 'tharvangirasa itihasah puranam

<font color="red">brihad aranyaka upanishad 2.4.10 </font color>

 

sa hovaacha rigvedam bhagavo'dhyemi yajurveda saamavedamatharvanam chathurthamitihaasa puraanam panchamam vedaanaam vedam

<font color="red"> chandogya upanishad

 

</font color>

 

itihasah puranam ca

pancamo veda ucyate

vedan adhyapayam asa

mahabhrata-pancaman

<font color="red"> moksha dharma </font color>

 

 

 

Ofcourse the purana's contain stories /images/graemlins/cool.gif, but those stories are historical. The purana's aren't mere stories. They have more than stories. Did you never read stotra's in it? Did you never read how to do rituals in the purana's? Did you never read about brahma jnaana in the purana's? Did you never read about dharma in the purana's. Did you never read about the universe in the purana's? Did you never read about bhakti in the purana's? Agni purana doen't have much stories. Just a few chapters are stories. The other chapters are all about rituals, ayurveda, vedic and pauranic mantra's, dhanurveda, dharma, brahma jnaana, etc. There are enough subjects in the purana's. It doesn't contain only stories. The stories in the purana's are always superiour to stories from tv and romans. They tell about Bagavaan's divine lila. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Guest guest]

 

It depends on what one is prepared to accept as real -- a test of credulity. I have a problem accepting that huts turn into mansions in a wink of an eye or somone sat in meditation for 10,000 years. For people like me, such stories are mythology. But there are some people who have no such problems. They are willing to believe in anything and for such people, the Puraanaas are sacrosanct and completely true. Different people are wired differently.

 

As an example, Shankara's biographies [not written by him] list out numerous miracles that happened in Shankara's life [changing the course of a river, debate with Vyaasa, etc]. However, Shankara in his own works says "Athough miracles do not happen now, it does not mean that miracles did not happen in the past". He makes it clear that there are no miraculous occurences in his time, 700 AD, thus contradicting the stories in the biographies. If people were adding masala 1300 years back, what was to stop them from doing so, 2500 years back?

 

Cheers

 

[DeepakM98]

"Athough miracles do not happen now, it does not mean that miracles did not happen in the past"

 

Do you believe in prashtana trayam?

upanishad's

bhagavad gita

brahma sutra

If you believe in these there should be no problem accepting the purana's.

 

 

<font color="red"> If people were adding masala 1300 years back, what was to stop them from doing so, 2500 years back? </font color>

 

You can also say the veda's aren't original anymore, or the bhagavad gita isn't original anymore, or the bhaashya of shankara isn't original anymore. This way you can say whole sanatandharm isn't origanal anymore and you will become a stupid lokayata /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Guest guest]

is the destroyer.

 

one that rises falls some day, and vice versa.

 

we know that islamic invaders have done tremendeous destruction of our vedic literature and lives for 1000 years.

 

mahabharat war it self owas a lot of destruction.

 

 

[Narayanidd]

My dear spirit soul,

 

You asked: "How did that knowledge get lost over the period of time? Why wasn't the knowledge transferred from one generation to the next?"

 

According to Bhagavatam

 

SrI Suka uvAca

tataS cAnu-dinaM dharmaH

satyaM SaucaM kSama dayA

kAlena balinA rAjan

naNkSyaty Ayur balaM smRtiH

 

Sukadeva Gosvami said: Then, O king, religion, truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerence, mercy, duration of life, physical strength and memory will diminish day by day because of the powerful influence of the age of Kali.(12,2:1)

 

Sending such powerful weapons by sound took much control and memory. By just hearing the scriptures once Arjuna could understand and remember it all. Kali-yugas influence is very evedent. I write things down to remember them and still I will forget. We just don't have the mental or physical ability to use such technology.

 

Here is some more examples that science was more advanced during "ancient" times.

 

sata eva padArthasya

svarUpAvasthitasya yat

kaivalyaM parama mahan

aviSeSo nirantaraH

 

Atoms are the ultimate state of the manifest universe. When they stay in their own forms without forming different bodies, they are called the unlimited oneness. There are certainly different bodies in physical forms, but the atoms themselves for the complete manifestation.

 

evaM kAlo 'py anumitaH

saukSmye sthaulye ca sattama

saMsthAna-bhuktya bhagavAn

avyakto vyakta-bhug vibhuH

 

One can estimate time by measuring the movement of the atomic combination of bodies. Time is the potency of the Almighty Personality of Godhead, Hari, who controls all physical movement although He is not visible in the physical world.

 

sa kAlaH paramANur vai

yo bhunkte paramANutAm

sato 'viSeSa-bhug yas tu

sa kAlaH paramo mahAn

 

Atomic time is measured according to its covering a particular atomic space. That time which covers the unmanifest aggregate of atoms is called the great time.

 

"Time and space are two correlative terms. Time is measured in terms of its covering a certain space of atoms."

 

We can see by the above verses that "ancient" vedic culture was aware of atoms, molecules, and the relationships between time and space.

Thank you.

Your servant,

Narayani d.d.

[Avinash]

Both Bhagavatam and Visnu Puran talk about water clock, which is used to measure one nadika. Are there any other scriptures (e.g. some other Purana or some upanishad) which talk of water clock?

[Kulapavana]

By reading the Vedas you will understand what is real, and what is only an illusion. That is the greatest science.

[Dervish]

Hey, let's talk about Vimanas!

[Avinash]

Vimanas?

Good. Please post about Vimanas. Meanwhile, if you get more info about water clocks, please post. Canto 3, Chapter 11 of Bhagavatam contains a verse, which explains how to measure one nadika (or danda). Sri Prabhupada's translation of the verse reads, "The measuring pot for one nadika, or danda, can be prepared with a six-pala-weight [fourteen ounce] pot of copper, in which a hole is bored with a gold probe weighing four masa and measuring four fingers long. When the pot is placed on water, the time before the water overflows in the pot is called one danda."

 

As I understand, the verse says that we should make a hole, with a gold needle of specified size and mass, in the bottom of the copper pot. The pot should be kept on the surface of water. After one danda, the pot will completely sink in water.

 

Please correct me if I have misunderstood the translation.

 

I want to know the shape of the pot. Is it hemi-spherical? Or, is it of some other shape? If some other shape, what is it? I want to derive a formula that gives the time taken for the pot to completely sink in water. For this, I need to know the shape of the pot. Bhagavatam does not seem to say what the shape should be. Can we know the shape from some other scripture? Or, from some lecture of some Acarya?

Thank you.

 

[Guest guest]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0963530941/104-0569178-7805530?v=glance

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0892133341/ref=pd_sim_books_2/104-0569178-7805530?v=glance&s=books

[Avinash]

I could not see the pages as the links do not work.

[Avinash]

May be earlier there was some problem. I checked again. The links work. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Avinash,

 

I was a person just like you, until i researched a lot on the net and realised what Ancient India actually means.

 

Let me start off by reassuring u that mahabharat or ramayan or anything else was nothing written by a pre-incarnation of JK Rowling, but they can be treated as real history.

 

I wonder u know about the vaimanika shastra or not but u can sure check these links:

http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Vimanas.htm

http://www.main.org/polycosmos/glxywest/vimanas.htm

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Vimanas.htm

 

OK, the first thing I suggest u is, try using a bit of logic.

1500 BC -> we were fighting with swords and arrows and horses

1 AD -> same as above

1000 AD -> same as above

1500 AD -> same as above

2000 AD -> Woah!!! u kidding me? we are talking about Sukhois and F-16s!!!

 

well see that simple chronology describes in a simple manner what JUST 500 years can do in shaping the world.

 

Isn't it possible that a similar 500 years could have occured much earlier??? Well not only now I believe, but also propagate this idea.

 

We Indians were the most advanced civilization ever... more than todays. Here is some prelude:

1) Sanskrit is the scientifically the most perfect language. It has a grammar which has been said to be a masterpeice of the human brain. Being a comp sci student i know about languages and grammars that a computing machine accepts and i praise the article in the Forbes Magazine claiming sanskrit to be best computer programming language. The devnagri script is a scientific script again, since if the letters are formed from hollow pipes, air blown from one end produces the exact sound the letter represents.

 

Sanskrit is the mother of all european languages... we all know that.

 

The aryan invasion theory has been contradicted, thats also known.

 

What derives is that Europe, West Asia and India (community of aryans) were all speaking the same language, sanskrit, at one time. Also underlining that this is ONLY POSSIBLE in case of a well interlinked community. Like today most of the world speaks english.

 

The formation of newer languages indicate that the well interlinked community broke down.

Those in India became Hindus, and those in Europe turned into Nomads, later forming different civilisations. The english language is a straight derivative of sanskrit, which adopted its vocubulary from some other languages also like Latin.

Hindi, Bangla, Gujrati, Marathi are all derivatives of Sanskrit which came to common use since the periods of 100 AD.

This indicates that these languages were starting to become the primary languages instead of sanskrit. Once again indicating that this whole period was succeeding a community of Sanskrit speakers who were gradually turning towards regional literature. So what happened suddenly that the whole sanskrit community was being lost?

 

In case u have read the above links u will understand what i mean.

Mahabharata was a true history. I suppose the concept of Yug also becomes clear by these facts. Initially the society of the aryans was absolutely free of lies, greed, lust etc. Quite naturally these human tendancies began to show themselves slowly with time. And hence the changes of the Yuga. Then during the Mahabharata and Ramayana, the technology developed for peaceful purposes were exploited.

 

 

2) Another simple point i would like to re-iterate is about the basic science of our ancestors. Every thing in the world is made of the five elements:

fire water air soil and ether

well this is basically a mis interpretation of what our ancestors tried to pass on to us after the great war. Dont we have every chemistry author stating that if ever our world was to come to an end, what would be the most important statement we passed to the next gen? "everything is made up of atoms"

 

well our ancestors did a better job, only if we had got it right.

the five elements rather suggest of the five forms of matter that exist in space time. Yes, our ancestors were well versed with the space time theory, and the theory of relativity.

 

We all learn the three states, solid liquid gas.

Till date our books dont teach the young about the already known 4th state, or the plasma. Our ancestors passed it to us.

Water= liquid

Soil (dharti) = solid

Air = gas

 

Fire = plasma (fire is the most basic example of plasma)

 

Now comes Ether or Space. Why was ether included in this list? Ether is no state...

 

Well it is. Over here ether doesn't mean the chemical ether but space or vacuum.

 

Anything that acquires a presence in the space/time model is a substance. Ether is "nothing" but still takes up position in space/time and whatever takes position in space time is matter.

Hence our ancestors passed on to us the exact phrase... which we are understanding today, because we know about plasmas and theory of relativity.

 

I will be posting more once i get responses to this post.

 

Captain Ron

www.CaptainRons.co.nr