fifthwheelchapel Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 Romans 8:21-25 23 waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Wit- means result of this, also means knowledge. Waiting for the adoption, to wit, adoption to come to a fullness of knowledge, adoption given that you may have a new life, BORN AGAIN. This is the result of an adoption. Also that you may have redemption, which is saved, raised up. 24 saved by hope Matthew 10:22 & Mark 13:13 He that endureth to the end shall be saved Notice: shall= not happened yet!!!!!!!! 25 we with patience wait for it Why? because it is not time for our redeption Ephesians 1:13-14 13....Ye were sealed with that holy spirit of promise 14...Which is our inheitance (adoption) until the redemption. Inheritance: Is our new life in Jesus, Born again, as in.... John 3:3 except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Redemption is: You MUST live the life of Christ until??? The end Matthew 10:22 & Mark 13:13 (as seen above) Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up and lift your heads; for your redemption draweth near. (AT THIS POINT YOU ARE SAVED) Why is saved and born again not understood? Many teaching are not born again. 1 Corinthians 2:14-15 The natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God. If we were taught by the oracles of God with the word right divided (as seen in 1 Peter 4:11 & 2 Timothy 2:15) we would understand that we MUST be BORN AGAIN; then we are SAVED out of harm and danger to live out our eternal life (When we are raptured) Our redemption- We enter the kingdom of heaven which is set up on earth. For printable studies as Jesus taught go to www.fifthwheel chapel.com Study and grow in Gods word with us. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 Bill, your last post received a couple of replies. Concerning salvation, we can see by the example of Lord Jesus Christ that he was not concerned with his on welfare up to salvation. His concern was with love for the Father and His pleasure. Of course we can't pretend we are on the same level and so for now salvation seems important to us. But when one has awkened his pure devotional love for God salvation will follow you like your shadow. No separate endeavor is needed. It comes automatically. The point is, ultimately love of God is all-important. Didn't David pray in his psalms, "O Lord, and if I go to hell what is that to me, for Thou art there"? David is expressing what we call Krishna consciousness, or God consciousness. We all need to gradually set our goal higher to this level. Gradually, but with resolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifthwheelchapel Posted April 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 Theist, Thank you for your reply, David is a wonderful example of faith: knowing God was always with him, as he is with us. I agree salvation is very important, I am only saying that we receive it in the end as read in Matthew 10:22. Jesus mentioned several times to be born again and to become a new person this is the only way to receive salvation, so is it important? Well according to Jesus it was. John 3:3 except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. And he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Jesus separated these in his teachings. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 Theist, Thank you for your reply, David is a wonderful example of faith: knowing God was always with him, as he is with us. I agree salvation is very important, I am only saying that we receive it in the end as read in Matthew 10:22. Yes it is important to be born again and to receive salvation. But even salvation is not the ultimate goal, pure love of God is. I'm sure we agree here. But of course it is impossible to have pure love of God while we are concerned with a salvation we have yet to attain. I also accept your point that it is necesary to be born again(spiritual birth), for without having received the spiritual birth how can one grow into that atmosphere? These are all important with the goal being pure love for God. Jesus mentioned several times to be born again and to become a new person this is the only way to receive salvation, so is it important? Well according to Jesus it was. John 3:3 except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. Accepted above And he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Jesus separated these in his teachings. This is another important point that you make. The rebirth is the beginning of a totally new life,one of spiritual desire and not of fleshly desire. Just like the ordinary human birth. After that there is a whole life of growth and learning ahead. That will include many ups and downs, successes and seeming defeats. So often the tendancy is to think that just by receiving rebirth the job is finished when actually it has just begun. The truth is we are to be seeking an entire transformation from the inside out. Praise the Name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 It has been a joy reading your replys I thank the Lord for you. I love your statement "the truth is we are to be seeking an entire transformation from the inside out" I have a lesson on my site www.fifthwheelchapel.com called Transformation: the process of being transformed. It is in library one. check it out. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 Thank you Bill. I have also enjoyed our brief exchanges and I hope you keep communication with us here. God bless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streetstraw Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 No need to surrender; it's that simple, right? Or just open up a savings account. Fully insured, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 a karishan devotee needs to understand bible? prabhupada has never opened it in any of his class. why here? this is not a christian forum. jai sri prabhupada! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 If you are not attracted to a particular conversation then just stay out of it. Let the moderators decide what's appropriate or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leyh Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 Srila Prabhupada certainly quoted the Bible many times during his preaching. Srila Prabhupada is not sectarian. We are not preaching to Christian or Hindu or Muslim. We are preaching to human being. We do not see, "Here is a Christian. Here is a Muslim. Here is a Hindu. Here is a white man. Here is a black man." No. Every living being, his duty is to understand God. This is our preaching. This is our preaching, that "You are living being. You are part and parcel of Krsna. This designation, that ‘You are Hindu,' ‘You are Muslim,' ‘You are Christian,' ‘You are this' -- these are all designations. Actually you are living being, part and parcel of Krsna. Therefore your main duty is to understand Krsna." This is our preaching. We are not going to convert Hindu into Muslim, Muslim into Christian. No, that is not our... That is not our business. He may think that he is Christian, he is Hindu, he is Muslim, but we think that he is a spirit soul, part and parcel of God. (His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, 75/10/27 Nairobi, Bhagavad-gita 7.1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 Bill I just read what you have up on your site about transformation and we are really on the same page.True transformation is often missed. This is seen not only in the Christian religion but all religions. People go through certain rituals or even have a genuine spiritual experience and from that develop a false sense of security. We all do this. We become too relaxed and start to coast along forgeting the urgency of the situation before us. Real spirituality exists on a level beyond religion. It is realized in a direct relationship with God and His pure Son and servants. From reading your site I know you know this already. In the post above this one leyh has kindly posted a quote from Bhaktivedanta Swami that explains the non-sectarian nature of true God awareness. Krishna is a name for God in the sanskrit language. Mostly we associate the wisdom from India with polytheism, many gods etc. But Bhaktivedanta Swami has explained that there is ultimately only one Supreme God and that He is a person. So mostly you will find at this site monotheists. The culture differences can be confusing but I know you can see past that. The world is presently in dire straits having turned away from this understanding. It will take a combined effort to help right the situation. God bless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 Leya & Theist, This is why God did not call us christians because that label would cause division between different countrys. Instead he called us children, sons or daughters. As God is calling us children and or sons and daughters we therefore see that God sees us all equal with no race, creed, and no color; And, without religion. But as his family. He is however unhappy that some of his children have become delinquent because of false ministers. Notice Gods word teaches the devil, his angels and all false prophets will be cast into a lake of fire. Now we also find in the word of God there are those that come through the great tribulation who have washed their own robe in the blood of the lamb. These are they which were deceived by false teachings. Those not deceived their robe was made white by the blood of the lamb which means their days were shorten because they were the chosen. Even though a minister is reading from the holy bible does not mean he is ordained by God so we must be careful. I really appreciated your replys and enlightenment on Kirsna. It has a wonderful way of looking at ALL human beings equally this is what God teaches. Thank you for checking out the site there are numerous studies there you can print out and email me with any questions you may have. Bill www.fifthwheelchapel.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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