Whats is right & What is wrong ?

[srivats]

Hey all,

 

I really doubt about being right and being wrong .Let me expalin what my question really is.

 

I man who is soo poor kills a wealthy man and gets money for food and for his famliy. From his prospective whatever he has done is correct and what made him to do that is wrong. But from others view its totally wrong.

 

Who decides one is good or bad , we ourselfs know something is good but its bad for other , By doing every action we are getting karma attached to it. But Who decides whats the karma is , because according to our Karma only we are going to take our life.

 

If god decides that , He is the one who created hungry lion and beautiful deer as pray for it. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

Madava Kesava Madhanagopala ! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Srivats

[Guest guest]

 

krishna states that everyone follows his path

in all respects.

 

everyone is manifesting gods will, good ,bad,

right,wrong, these are moral judgements.

 

on the absolute plane, god is dealing with us on an eternal

conception, the temporary actions and reactions in this world are there only for the raising of the consciousness

of the jiva under the influence of self defeatism.

 

so all things being done in this world are for a purpose,

and that purpose is to elevate the consciousness

of all the people , some are on one level, others

on another, some just coming here,some leaving.

 

Right and wrong actions are relative, what is right for one

person may be wrong for another, for a healthy person

garlic will simply make bad breath, for a sick person

it can heal.

 

so right and wrong are rrelative.

[srivats]

 

Thanks for the reply , i am sure about the relativity , as u see i myself has told that its from the point of view.

 

But i want some light on the Karma part of it .

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala

[Guest guest]

 

you need to clarify your question, i can't

seem to understand what you are asking,

exactly .

 

Karma is the reaction to your actions, you are being

guided by god ,paramatma, god within, to your

suitable destination for the elevation of

your consciousness.

 

Karma is not about punishing or rewarding people

for their actions, that is a misconception,

it is a process of gradual purification of

consciousness, this is the point.

 

so god decides , what is best for you,period.

[Guest guest]

Karma come when we preform actions which isnt done in devotional service to Shree Shree Guru and Gouranga.

 

If we follow very carefully the order of Shree Guru follow his expert instructions what actions we preform do not produce karma.

 

Karma come we act for our own motived wishes

 

Actions done to please Guru and Gouranga is akarmic these actions produce liberation and not bondage.

 

And the reward is more service which is more and more intamate

eternally.

 

When we act for our own sense pleasure our enjoyments is very brief and they are allways mixed with horrible suffering .

 

Even if one preforms a good action for a someone if that action isnt for revealing that persons lost loving relationship with Shree Radha Krishna Gouranga Mahaprabhu it is a very tempory assitance discribed like saving the shirt of a drowning person and leaving the person themselves.

 

And that good action is also binding the doer to this material world

 

 

 

[greeneagle3000]

everybody has already the right to do whatever he wants. now, that the gods created rules then they are limited. wrong is wrong butsomething ethicle isn't wrong is it? according to your own judgements, what you feel and know is wrong ahouldn't be done but many evil people who are in high power are already doing it. you should do good for mankind and peace. that's what's right or wrong. not these. i don't believe in god but i know that there is many so i'm not afriad of what my beliefs are. i totally know what i'm doing is right. it's not as if i'm killing a kid or raping someone right?

now, i will know many people will disageree with me as i uprise to 'god'. so let's see the controversy.

[Guest guest]

 

everybody has already the right to do whatever he wants. now, that the gods created rules then they are limited. wrong is wrong butsomething ethicle isn't wrong is it? according to your own judgements, what you feel and know is wrong ahouldn't be done but many evil people who are in high power are already doing it. you should do good for mankind and peace. that's what's right or wrong. not these. i don't believe in god but i know that there is many so i'm not afriad of what my beliefs are. i totally know what i'm doing is right. it's not as if i'm killing a kid or raping someone right?

now, i will know many people will disageree with me as i uprise to 'god'. so let's see the controversy.

 

 

You do not believe in God? You do believe in many gods or demi-gods? That is very different. Thus, your understandings will be limited to this.

 

You 'want' to see controversy? (A form of mental sense gradification.) The questioner was trying to get an answer, not a debate.

[shvu]

 

 

Who decides one is good or bad , we ourselfs know something is good but its bad for other , By doing every action we are getting karma attached to it. But Who decides whats the karma is , because according to our Karma only we are going to take our life.

 

 

No one.

 

The concept of Karma running our lives, is probably not found in any text older than the Gita. To the best of my knowledge, it is not found in any of the Vedas. And the Gita, unfortunately does not provide a detailed list of Good and bad Karmas.

 

The main schools of Vedanta state that souls and Karma are beginningless. Since Karma is beginningless, the rules of Karma were not made by anyone -- not even God. They just are. As for the poor guy stealing to satisfy his hunger, no one can state if it is right or wrong -- because no one has in his possession, the set of rules of Karma. If you have faith in a Guru/book and if you are satisfied with the answer given by that source, that is the correct answer. That is as far as one can go.

 

Cheers

[Avinash]

It is said that sometimes people do wrong things because of bad situations. I agree that it is true to some extent. But, I have found that very often people try to justify their wrong deeds by saying that they had necessities. As an example, consider stealing because of poverty. From my personal experience I can say that it is possible to go without any food for days and without any house to live and still not steal food/money or do any other wrong thing. I am not saying that people can never be forced to do wrong things because of the situation they are in. But, in majority of the cases, I have found that a person can be principled even in bad situations.

[Guest guest]

krishna says it in gita.

 

when a rich man follows gita,

he will not let another man at the door go hungry.

 

when a poor man follows gita,

he will not remain bread-less or poor.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

wow shvu, what kind of jive is that ?

 

not even god controls karma ?

 

Hey i got news for ya pal, god control$

everything, god can do away with

the law of karma if that is desired.

 

God is not beneath karmic law, what is karmic

law ?

 

it is god's law,god decides what is

acceptable or not,god decides your

fate, not karma.

[DeepakM98]

do you mean the bhagavad gita or another one?

[Guest guest]

srimad bhagavad gita,

the 700-verse summary of the vedas and upanishads.

 

 

[Avinash]

The very fact that you have started this thread proves that you have concern that you might do something wrong (may be by mistake). It is possible that the concern is huge and it is possible that it is not. But one thing is certain that there is some concern regarding this in you.

 

Therefore, use your conscience. When you do something wrong then, at least for sometime, you may feel that what you are doing is wrong. Many people just dismiss such thoughts. Do not dismiss them. Listen to your consicence.

 

Do not always go by what society considers as right or wrong. I am not trying to say that if you follow society, you will always do but things. Even though I am asking not to always go by what society says, I am not suggesting that you must do against what society says. It is just that many people do many wrong things in order to earn the label of "social".

 

Also, one must not think that it is OK for him to do wrong things (like stealing) if, in future, he has serious money problem. The word "serious" is vague. What kind of problem will you consider as serious? If I keep in my mind that I will be justified in stealing if, sometime in future, I face serious money problems, then I may steal even if I have money problem, but not so serious that I can not tolerate that problem. Since the seriousness of a problem can not be quantified, I may justify my action by saying that I had serious problem. If nobody catches me when I am trying to steal, then I will give the justification to myself. People try to give justification of their wrong deeds not only to others, but also to themselves. Their conscience tells them that they are doing something wrong. If that can not think of some excuse, then they will remember for a long time that they did something wrong, and therefore, they will continue to have guilty feeling.

 

You may ask one question here:-

 

If I say that I should not do wrong things even if it is very much needed, then is it not possible that there will really be a situation when I will need to do something which is otherwise considered as wrong?

 

The answer is that if you are really in such a situation that you are justified in doing what is usually considered as wrong, then you will not feel bad in doing that.

[greeneagle3000]

i do not believe in god but there are many gods.

i'm not trying to do a debate if that's what you think. it may sound like it but it's not. i am just trying to tell you that there is no such thing as fate.

[Avinash]

Where in my post did I talk about fate? Or, were you replying to some other post?

 

BTW: I wish I could see you. I have seen eagles but never green ones.

[greeneagle3000]

i don't think i was refering to you but the post. karma is like fate.

if you can't see me then imagine me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[srivats]

in reply to

-----------

 

you are being

guided by god ,paramatma, god within, to your

suitable destination for the elevation of

your consciousness.

 

--------------

 

IF i am being guided by him , for every action then isnt he is responsible for whatever my action is ??

 

 

-----------

 

Karma is the reaction to your actions

 

---------------

 

what kind of reaction it is either good or bad ??

 

-----------

suitable destination for the elevation of

your consciousness.

-----------

 

sometimes i am jus confused by hearing elevation of consciousness . what does this really mean , although i know its all about knowing what are u , still i wanted to confirm that.

 

 

 

---------

 

it is a process of gradual purification of

consciousness, this is the point.

 

---------

 

if this is soo ? then why we are taking birth ( insted of attaining salvation) based on the karma .

 

 

 

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so god decides , what is best for you,period

-------

 

i do believe he has best for me always !! but then he has kept different thing for diff people , do we say he knows that the best thing a poor , or blindl ppl or a prostitute can get in thier life ??

 

i am sorry i dont want to start a debate but , i want to get answers for these questions.

 

thanks to u dear friend.

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala !

Srivats

 

 

[srivats]

------

The very fact that you have started this thread proves that you have concern that you might do something wrong (may be by mistake).

 

But one thing is certain that there is some concern regarding this in you.

----------

 

Yes it is to me and for everyone on this earth , isnt it ?

 

 

 

-------

 

The answer is that if you are really in such a situation that you are justified in doing what is usually considered as wrong, then you will not feel bad in doing that.

 

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Please consider my point , whatever i think good or bad is also from the materialistic knowledge i have got from the society and people around the world .

 

But then i am not totally errofree in judging what is good or what is bad , but as far as i understand from your script that , we may not feel guilty in doing things which are good to us .

 

But people who are doin bad things continously are free from gulity ( feeling bad ) , otherwise they are not goin to reopeat it.

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala

Srivats

 

 

[Krishna69]

I read your question on what is right and what is wrong. In my experience and beliefs from what I have understood the essence of Gita I am giving this humble answer. Its true the same God creates both the hungry lion and the beautiful deer. For the animal which has no sense of thinking to discriminate between hurting other life's sense a deer is food. As humans who is given the sixth sense, we should be able to discriminate right and wrong in such a way that our actions does not hurt others. Any action of us whether its a harsh word towards an innocent person, a cruel action towards innocent which hurts them either physically or emotionally is considered wrong. From karmic point of view, the hurt what we create in others either emotionally, or physically or both it will affect us in some form in the same way we hurt the other person's emotions at that time. We are responsible for our actions and none. I will explain the action of karma with an example. In Mahabharata, finally Lord Krishna says that He was the one who created everything and He was responsible for everything for both the actions of Duryodhana and Dharma. This is misinterpreted by many people as. This does not

mean whatever evil and hurtful actions one does

towards other can be considered as GOD made me todo

for that person which looks like we do it for our

convenience and blame GOD ultimately. Vyasa has

explained this in another situation in which as humans

we are given chances for both hurtful and good actions and we have to careful to chose the right path to get the

good benefits. Before the Kurukshethra war started

both duryodhana and dharma wanted to take help from

Krishna. First Duryodhana came to Krishna's place and

when he saw krishna was resting, he sat in one of the

chairs behind Krishna's head because he did not want

to be under His foot. (This shows one's ego and

arrogance for which he is going to loose the

blessings). When Dharma came he sat in one of the

chairs near the foot of Krishna (this shows his

humbleness and surrendering to supreme power for His

blessings with purity of mind in him). When Krishna

woke up He first saw Dharma and immediately asked him

when he came and sat at His foot and He is willing to

do anything for dharma. Duryodhana was disappointed by

this since krishna already gave the word to Dharma.

Although Krishna as the Lord created both of them and also

created this situation HE provided the oppurtunity to both of them but its one's ego that prevented the blessings to

reach duryodhana, while Dharma got the blessing. Also

it shows that howmuch ever one prays to GOD from all his

mind, unless he has purity of mind and is honest and

good, following the truth, GOD will never shower HIS

blessings just because you pray to HIM. Krishna as

Lord knows that Dharma has truth, and hence He wanted

to help only DHarma, and He knows that Duryodhana is

arrogant and should face for all his evil actions. But

yet He gave the chance everytime to see if a bad

person turns to become good realsing the truth with

his sixth sense exclusively given to humans. So HE gave the opportunity to duryodhana also but his ego

and arrogance prevented him and hence he did not sit

at Krishna's foot with the result he lost His help.

So one cannot blame GOD for our hurtful actions and

words towards other person saying that it was HE who

created the situation and I just acted. Its wrong.

Divine Grace can be reached only with a sincerity and devotion with purity of mind. It does not require that you have to pray everyday for hours together chanting chores of Mantras. It requires purity of mind, being humble to all, whether you know shastras, read vedas or upanishads or GITA or not, one's mind need to be pure in not hurting any other living creatures for our selfish benefits. When I say concentration, It should be ultra pure to the extent of forgetting oneself. When Draupathi lost all hopes on human help, she cried for Krishna at one moment forgetting the fact that her cloth is going to be removed. When she mingled with the Divine forgetting herself, The Blessings of Krishna came to her like never ending waves in the ocean. All one need is purity of mind with total Devotion and when we can reach this stage you will certainly know what is good and what is bad.

Regards

Shyam

[Guest guest]

 

it's really simple, you need to read bhagavad gita,

 

http://www.asitis.com/

 

[Guest guest]

 

Srivats has asked his questions because he read the Gita. So how can reading the Gita be the solution?

 

The questions have been discussed before. Do we have freewill or is it God's will that is operating in or lives? The Gita seems to hint at both, thus causing this confusion. My opinion is that the Gita rules out freewill.

 

Cheers

 

[Guest guest]

 

no, that is incorrect, if you think that

you have read the gita and know it, and still have questions as basic as these, you need to study .

[Guest guest]

Thanks dear friend to suggest me to read gita, i am doing that - i agree i havent read it fully , but then to get good things from my dear spritual friends in more clear

and in very form so that i can understand that better.

 

Madhavan Kesava Madhana Gopala

Srivats

 

[Guest guest]

In reply to

 

--------------

 

As humans who is given the sixth sense, we should be able to discriminate right and wrong in such a way that our actions does not hurt others. Any action of us whether its a harsh word towards an innocent person, a cruel action towards innocent which hurts them either physically or emotionally is considered wrong

 

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Well yeah we do have sixth sene to know whats wrong and whats right and the very reason for me to be here is this, well - we are here to perform some duties , to our mother father , as a son , or as a student , as a teacher, manager , employee .. etc , ( I hope you wont disagree that we need to perform basic duties like this). While we are doing so, we are actually doing something considered as wrong , look a meat shop owner , he has no mercy for goat ,cow or chicken , all he does is chop them for money.That is his life, his duty to server his son and wife , to take care of his mother and father, And as a manager, a person may need to scold someone , someday to do a job properly - but by doing that he is hurting the others feeling. Which i suppose cannot be avoided.

 

What my point here is while we are performing such duties here we are actually doing something right and something wrong , again its relative , its very hard to understand by what one means right what one is wrong.

 

 

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In Mahabharata, finally Lord Krishna says that He was the one who created everything and He was responsible for everything for both the actions of Duryodhana and Dharma.

 

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Why Duryodhana choose to be bad , when he had chance of being good ? , the reason the situation , i do believe , everyone does things ( whether good or bad ) whith a reason behind it. Duryodhana choose to be bad because of the way he brought up and of course due to the way things at his side.

 

The example you have given , about the story of Duryodhana and Dharma to meet krishna, is classic example , but

think from the point of view of Duryodhana.

 

I am not justifying everything is good , but the very basic information about being good or being bad is not clear.

 

See rama killed vali for no reason of his own , but for his friend.

 

In mahabharata karna choose to stay with his friend to be honest to him , although i knew he is going to get defeated and die . Do you say karna is bad or good ?

 

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So one cannot blame GOD for our hurtful actions and

words towards other person saying that it was HE who

created the situation and I just acted

 

-------------

 

We are not at all blaming god , nor i wanted to , The idea is to find out what he meant by doing all these things.

 

he has created situation , some are favourable and good to somepart and some are unfavourable and bad to others, people who are bad side of it acts accordingly.

 

------

 

Draupathi lost all hopes on human help, she cried for Krishna at one moment forgetting the fact that her cloth is going to be removed. When she mingled with the Divine forgetting herself, The Blessings of Krishna came to her like never ending waves in the ocean

 

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Thats true , yeah i do believe in suredering onself fully to god , to be taken care by him , but i still see soo many sisters of mine who are like Draupathi with no krishna coming to save them.

 

I still see so many poor children dying in war, what mistake they have done ? and some are not dieing but merely getting all wounds which are soo painful which older men cannot withstand. If they are punished for karma , ( i still dont get answer to what karma really do )

 

and if they are suppose to take up that situation and praise god and follow him , i suppose they never do that being in that situation.

 

Dear freinds , i am not against god , or hinduism , i am here to find answers and learn more, get cleared and to make my freinds clear about whats right and whats wrong.

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala

Srivats