too many disciples?

[Guest guest]

Please accept my humble obeisances. I'm wondering if anybody thinks it may have been wrong of His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to have accepted so may disciples. Also, do you think it was wrong to have granted sannyasa to such young and inexperienced Western men? I ask this humbly and with respect to Srila Prabhupada and apologize in advance for any offenses this question may incur.

 

Sincerely Your Servant,

Mark

[leyh]

Srila Prabhupada did touch on this issue of his accepting many disciples in one of his books. It seems clear that Prabhupada accepted some of his disciples in full knowledge that they were (in his own words) "nonsense".

 

Syamasundara: One time you said that sometimes you feel sickness or pain due to the sinful activities of your devotees. Can sometimes disease be due to that? Caused by that?

Srila Prabhupada: You see, Krsna says:

 

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

moksayisyami ma sucah

 

"I will deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear." So Krsna is so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make them right. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Krsna, he also takes the responsibility for the sinful activities of his devotees. Therefore to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb them. So sometimes--because he is not Krsna--sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has forbidden, "Don't make many sisyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples--for expanding preaching--even if we suffer. That's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility for all the sinful activities of his disciples. Therefore to make many disciples is a risky job unless one is able to assimilate all the sins.

 

vancha-kalpa-tarubhyas ca

krpa-sindhubhya eva ca

patitanam pavanebhyo

vaisnavebhyo namo namah

 

["I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaisnava devotees of the Lord. They are just like desire trees who can fulfill the desires of everyone, and they are full of compassion for the fallen conditioned souls."] He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That idea is also in the Bible. Jesus Christ took all the sinful reactions of the people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of a spiritual master. Because Krsna is Krsna, He is apapa-viddha--He cannot be attacked by sinful reactions. But a living entity is sometimes subjected to their influence because he is so small. Big fire, small fire. If you put some big thing in a small fire, the fire itself may be extinguished. But in a big fire, whatever you put in is all right. The big fire can consume anything.

Bob: Christ's suffering was of that nature?

Srila Prabhupada: Mm-m?

Bob: Was Christ's suffering--

Srila Prabhupada: That I have already explained. He took the sinful reactions of all the people. Therefore he suffered.

Bob: I see.

Srila Prabhupada: He said--that is in the Bible--that he took all the sinful reactions of the people and sacrificed his life. But these Christian people have made it a law for Christ to suffer while they do all nonsense. [bob gives a short laugh.] Such great fools they are! They have let Jesus Christ make a contract for taking all their sinful reactions so they can go on with all nonsense. That is their religion. Christ was so magnanimous that he took all their sins and suffered, but that does not induce them to stop all these sins. They have not come to that sense. They have taken it very easily. "Let Lord Jesus Christ suffer, and we'll do all nonsense." Is it not?

Bob: It is so.

Srila Prabhupada: They should have been ashamed: "Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us, but we are continuing the sinful activities." He told everyone, "Thou shalt not kill," but they are indulging in killing, thinking, "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us and take all the sinful reactions." This is going on. We should be very much cautious: "For my sinful actions my spiritual master will suffer, so I'll not commit even a pinch of sinful activities." That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation, all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, his spiritual master has to suffer. A disciple should be sympathetic and consider this. "For my sinful activities, my spiritual master will suffer." If the spiritual master is attacked by some disease, it is due to the sinful activities of others. "Don't make many disciples." But we do it because we are preaching. Never mind--let us suffer--still we shall accept them. Therefore your question was--when I suffer is it due to my past misdeeds? Was it not? That is my misdeed--that I accepted some disciples who are nonsense. That is my misdeed.

Bob: This happens on occasions?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. This is sure to happen because we are accepting so many men. It is the duty of the disciples to be cautious. "My spiritual master has saved me. I should not put him again into suffering." When the spiritual master is in suffering, Krsna saves him. Krsna thinks, "Oh, he has taken so much responsibility for delivering a fallen person." So Krsna is there.

 

kaunteya pratijanihi

na me bhaktah pranasyati

 

["O son of Kunti, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes."] Because the spiritual master takes the risk on account of Krsna.

Bob: Your suffering is not the same kind of pain...

Srila Prabhupada: No, it is not due to karma. The pain is there sometimes, so that the disciples may know, "Due to our sinful activities, our spiritual master is suffering."

Bob: You look very well now.

Srila Prabhupada: I am always well... in the sense that even if there is suffering, I know Krsna will protect me. But this suffering is not due to my sinful activities.

 

(Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Chapter 6)

[theist]

Srila Prabhupada was certainly guilty of excessive compassion. He could have played it safe and stayed in Vrndaban. I guess he was so infected with the magnanimus and forward looking vision of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta though in one sense he had no choice.

 

He in fact initiated the whole western world into Harinam.

 

Some fell from the sannyasa ashram. So what? The service they did remains on. There is no loss. Many just got married and kept on with their bhakti.

[livingentity]

is so empowered that He is able to draw literally thousands of encased spirit souls from the false glitter of the material world and awaken their hearts to love of Lord Sri Krsna.

 

An astrologer predicted this success at the time of Prabhupada's appearance.

 

Srila Prabhupada carried out the wishes of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta at a time when most men His age would have retired. He did this with vision and energy unsurpassed and rarely seen even in people half His age!!

 

We are so fortunate that Srila Prabhupada had this desire to so generously bring Lord Krsna to us even at great risk to His own health at such an advanced age.

 

 

Some fell from the sannyasa ashram. So what? The service they did remains on. There is no loss. Many just got married and kept on with their bhakti.

 

 

This is so true!! Srila Prabhupada says many times that what we do as service to Lord Krsna is never lost! Some fell - yes. But many many more than that did not fall!! And are still working tirelessly to carry on Srila Prabhupada's mission to help spread Lord Caitanya's sankirtan movement throughout every town and village in this world!!

 

[livingentity]

 

Srila Prabhupada says many times that what we do as service to Lord Krsna is never lost! Some fell - yes.

 

 

 

"In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."Bg. 2.40

 

"If someone gives up self-gratificatory pursuits and works in Krsna consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And, what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly?" SB 1.5.17

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

I know I am going to catch flack for saying this but I am glad Srila Prabhupada calls the bluff on the Christians. I have grown up in a Christian family and grown up around Christians and I have seen so much nonesense in the name of Christ that it makes me sick to my stomach. It is my opinion that a lot of modern Christianity is in the business of continuing to crucify Christ. This is stuff I have been feeling for years and I even have tried to tell my fellow Christians this and they always want to shut me up and brush it all under the carpet.

 

[theist]

Yes he graciously called everyone on their bluffs. Christians as you say, impersonalists,Hindu polytheists, material scientists, cheating politicians, hippies and various other types of hedonists as well various sahajiya groups.

 

We all fell into one group or the other or even several at once.

 

A real sadhu will not flatter you and he won't kiss up to you either. He just tells it as it is. He disrupts our attempts to feel at home in our little imaginary comfort zones that we find for ourselves. He challenges us to rise up to our highest attainable potential.

 

Friday is the day that Christians remember the day Jesus Christ laid down his life on the cross. He challenged the world also saying "Pick up your cross and follow me."

 

Being a coward by nature I hesitate.

[dhaa]

 

...that I accepted some disciples who are nonsense. That is my misdeed.

 

 

 

somewhat related: http://www.indiadivine.org/bhaktivedanta-swami-prabhupada1.htm

 

In the Pratisarga part of the Bhavisya Purana, Chapter 20 verses 71-73; we find the following prediction:

 

"Lord Jagannath, the Supreme Lord Sri Hari Himself, spoke these attractive words for the welfare of all: <font color="brown"> The mlecchas who are born from mixed countries ruled by descendants of Kashyapa (demons) and the shudras will become brahmanas by initiation.</font color> They will wear shikhas and brahmana threads and will become well versed in the uncontaminated fruit of the Vedas (Srimad Bhagavatam). They will worship Me by the Yajna prescribed by the Lord of Lords, the protector of Sachi (Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu)."

[Guest guest]

I remember reading somewhere that is was recorded that Srila Prabhupada said, "There are many who do not know that they are my disciples", (perhaps somewhat differently worded). I will attempt to locate the quote again in the Vedabase, but the search will be difficult.