rasa shastra

[Guest guest]

Q. What does Srila Sridhara Maharaja mean when he says in this answer that the jiva can become Shiva? (From the book Sermons of the Guardian of Devotion.)

 

Devotee: Does a jiva attain the position of Siva?

 

 

Srila Guru Maharaja: Yes, he can be ŒSiva,' when he is out of the clutches of Maya; and the Vaikuntha devotee is more than Siva. When a spiritual molecule is free from the clutches of the exploitation tendency, he is known as ŒSiva.' Pasa-baddho bhavej jivah pasa-muktah sadasivah: When he is entangled, he is Œjiva,' and when he is free, he is ŒSiva' (Sivo 'ham).

 

 

A. The word siva does not only refer to Siva himself. It also means auspicious, fortunate, happy, etc. and refers to liberation. Thus Sridhara Maharaja describes Siva here as that condition in which one is free from the clutches of the exploitation that characterizes life under karmic rule. When the jiva is liberated he is in the position known as Siva. However, it is mentioned in Brhat-bhagavatamrta that the jiva can take the post of Siva.

 

 

 

Sometimes Goddess Durga is also described as the supreme controller. This is also correct because there is no difference between the potencies and Lord Krishna, the master of all potencies. This is confirmed by the following words of the Gautamiya Tantra:

 

 

"Krishna is Durga. Durga is Krishna. One who sees that they are different will not become liberated from the cycle of repeated birth and death."

 

Durga is the personal potency of Lord Krishna, and therefore she is Lord Krishna Himself. For this reason Durga should not be considered manifested from a portion of the Lord's illusory potency Maya. This fact is confirmed by the following stat ement of the Nirukti:

 

 

"Simply by understanding her one immediately attains the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not otherwise.

 

 

"She is identical with Gokula's queen Sri Radha, who possesses a great treasure of love for Krishna. By her grace the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of all living entities, is easily understood.

 

 

this is reality, one who sees Krishna as different from durga,who is identical to radha,WILL NOT BECOME LIBERATED !

 

 

This is the conclusion of the topmost philosopher

in the gaudiya line, Sri Jiva, Krishna,Radha,Durga

are all one,not two, those who see them as being

different will not be liberated.

 

this is simple, don't make it complicated.

 

 

this is from Bhaktivinode

 

In the form of the narrative of the Bhagavatam, the Transcendental Vraja Lila manifests its descent to the plane of our mundane vision in the symbolic shapes resembling those of the corresponding mundane events. If we are disposed, for any reason, to underestimate the transcendental symbolism of the narrative of the Bhagavatam we are unable to avoid unfavorable and hasty conclusions regarding the nature of the highest, the most perfect and the most charming form of the loving service of the Divinity to which all other forms of his service are as the avenues of approach.

 

Sexuality symbolizes the highest attraction and the acme of deliciousness of transcendental service. In the Amorous Performances of Vraja, the secrets of the eternal life are exhibited in their uncovered perfection in the activity of the Love of unalloyed souls.

 

 

 

 

more from Bhaktivinode

 

In the position of complete realization of the activity of the uncovered soul a person becomes eligible for participation in the Transcendental Pastime or Lila of Sri Krishna (Bh. 1/7/10 and Sridhara Swami's commentary on the same). The realization of this all-absorbing Love for Sri Krishna is the FRUIT or Prayojana of the eternal spiritual activities of all pure souls.

 

Goloka-Vrindavana is realizable in the symbolic Vrindavana that is open to our view in this world by all persons whose Love has been perfected by the mercy of the inhabitants of Transcendental Vraja, and not other-wise.

 

 

 

-----------------------

 

this is the true confidential message, the sankirtan lila

is non different from Radha Krishna lila,and

it is the entrance into that lila at the same time.

 

 

These truths are revealed to the devotee who is

free from the mundane consciousness, what sridhar deva

goswami has defined as Siva, from the Brhad Bhagavamrtam

we are told the same, the jiva can take the post of. siva.

 

 

this is from brahma samhita by A.C. Bhaktivedanta .

 

 

 

ksiram yatha dadhi vikara-visesa-yogat

sanjayate na hi tatah prthag asti hetoh

yah sambhutam api tatha samupaiti karyad

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

 

 

 

 

Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Sambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.

 

 

(The real nature of Sambhu, the presiding deity of Mahesa-dhama, is described.) Sambhu is not a second Godhead other than Krsna. Those, who entertain such discriminating sentiment, commit a great offense against the Supreme Lord. The supremacy of Sambhu is subservient to that of Govinda; hence they are not really different from each other. The nondistinction is established by the fact that just as milk treated with acid turns into curd so Godhead becomes a subservient when He Himself attains a distinct personality by the addition of a particular element of adulteration. This personality has no independent initiative. The sail adulterating principle is constituted of a combination of the stupefying quality of the deluding energy, the quality of nonplenitude of the marginal potency and a slight degree of the ecstatic-cum-cognitive principle of the plenary spiritual potency. This specifically adulterated reflection of the principle of the subjective portion of the Divinity is Sadasiva, in the form of the effulgent masculine-symbol-god Sambhu from whom Rudradeva is manifested. In the work of mundane creation as the material cause, in the work of preservation by the destruction of sundry asuras and in the work of destruction to conduct the whole operation, Govinda manifests Himself as guna-avatara in the form of Sambhu who is the separated portion of Govinda imbued with the principle of His subjective plenary portion. The personality of the destructive principle in the form of time has been identified with what of Sambhu by scriptural evidences that have been adduced in the commentary. The purport of the Bhagavata slokas, viz., vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh, etc., is that Sambhu, in pursuance of the will of Govinda, works in union with his consort Durga-devi by his own time energy. He teaches pious duties (dharma) as stepping-stones to the attainment of spiritual service in the various tantra- sastras, etc., suitable for jivas in different grades of the conditional existence. In obedience to the will of Govinda, Sambhu maintains and fosters the religion of pure devotion by preaching the cult of illusionist (Mayavada) and the speculative agama-sastras. The fifty attributes of individual souls are manifest in a far vaster measure in Sambhu and five additional attributes not attainable by jivas are also partly found in him. So Sambhu cannot be called a jiva. He is the lord of jiva but yet partakes of the nature of a separate portion of Govinda.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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A.C. Bhaktivedanta-

 

aham vedmi suko vetti, vyaso vetti na vetti va

bhaktya bhagavatam grahyam, na buddhya na ca tikaya

 

 

 

"I know the true purpose of Bhagavatam; Sukadeva, the son and disciple of Vyasadeva, knows it thoroughly, and the author of the Bhagavatam, Srila Vyasadeva, may or may not know the meaning."

 

Vyasadeva may or may not know, vyaso vetti na vetti va. This is the thinking of the higher class of devotees. By the will of the Supreme Lord a flow of knowledge may come down in the Vaishnava, but even he may not be aware of its meaning. Such is possible – he may or may not know, vyaso vetti na vetti va.

 

this is from Bhakti Prajana Kesava Maharaja

 

Yet another topic is necessarily indicated at this point. Srila (Sanatana) Goswamipada has revealed that the final sloka of Damodarastakam shows Sri Krsna's pastimes headed by the rasa-lila to be the topmost of all. He states "Since these are the topmost of confidential topics, they are not mentioned directly. Therefore such confidential pastimes are referred to by a mere hint only, as they are offered obeisances in the words namo 'nanta-lilaya.' The meaning of this is that because the rasa-lila is the most highly confidential pastime of the Lord, therefore Satyavrata Muni has mentioned it only with the briefest clue or tiniest glimpse. By so doing, he has made it known that it is always inappropriate to casually hear and chant about the rasa-lila here and there, whenever and wherever. Not only that, but if an unqualified person deceives himself with an attempt to banish lust, but then contemplates, performs or imitates the rasa-lila, then such a person certainly becomes degraded due to the offense of minimizing the glories of the factually transcendental rasa-lila. Eventually he will fall down to become a lusty debauchee and attached householder, just like the prakrta-sahajiyas who prematurely dabble in the highest truth.

 

 

 

naitat samacarej jatu manasapi hy-anisvarah

vinasyaty-acaran maudhyad yatharudro 'bdhi-jam visam

 

"One who is not a great controller should never imitate the behavior of ruling personalities, even mentally. If out of foolishness an ordinary person does imitate such behavior, he will simply destroy himself, just as a person who is not Rudra would destroy himself if he tried to drink an ocean of poison."

 

The purport of this is that one who is not an isvara truly qualified by being endowed with divine potency should never even mentally contemplate, perform or imitate the Lord's rasa-lila. Only Lord Siva himself is able to drink an entire ocean of poison. If an unqualified person who is arudra (not Siva) falsely considers himself to be greatly qualified and tries to drink poison in the form of hearing and chanting about the rasa-lila, then he would certainly die — that is, he would become tightly bound within the death-like condition of samsara or gross material existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

i'm sorry, the following ,what i quoted above,

is from JIVA GOSWAMI

 

"Sometimes Goddess Durga is also described as the supreme controller. This is also correct because there is no difference between the potencies and Lord Krishna, the master of all potencies. This is confirmed by the following words of the Gautamiya Tantra:

 

"Krishna is Durga. Durga is Krishna. One who sees that they are different will not become liberated from the cycle of repeated birth and death."

 

Durga is the personal potency of Lord Krishna, and therefore she is Lord Krishna Himself. For this reason Durga should not be considered manifested from a portion of the Lord's illusory potency Maya. This fact is confirmed by the following stat ement of the Nirukti:

 

"Simply by understanding her one immediately attains the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not otherwise.

 

"She is identical with Gokula's queen Sri Radha, who possesses a great treasure of love for Krishna. By her grace the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of all living entities, is easily understood. "

[Guest guest]

To further explain the form in which the perfected jiva will come to please Bhagavan, Sri Jiva Gosvamin presents the following thesis in his Priti-sandarbha (10)12:

 

 

“In the spiritual world, the Supreme Lord has unlimited spiritual forms, all are expansions of Himself illuminating that world. With each one of those forms, the Lord enjoys pastimes with a single individual liberated soul.”

 

 

The opposition sometimes raise this question "so are you all the worshippers of the female personification of Divine energy" (sakta)? The answer is "yes" we are under the shelter of the personification of spiritual energy Srimati Radharani. We are practicing devotions entirely under Her direction. We can compare ourselves in this sense as Saktas and are therefore non-different from the devotees (Vaishnavas). On the contrary, those not taking shelter of this spiritual potency but only have attraction for the material aspect are not considered devotees but are simply sense enjoyers. In Narada Pancaratra, Durga Devi says: "I am Your loving partner in your delightful Vrndavana pastimes in the form of Your internal pleasure potency". We perceive from the statement of Durga Devi that this energy is non-dual. In the transcendental feature, this energy is present as Srimate Radhika and in the material form manifests as the material energy. The question is sometimes raised by the opposition that the smarta brahmins say that the energy of Lord Siva is the foremost energy (sakti). Why is this?

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda replies. The material nature is composed of the three modes: goodness, passion and ignorance. The brahmins who are oriented in goodness worship the demigod in that material mode of goodness; those in passion worship the demigod in passion while those in the mode of ignorance worship "material nature" a knowledge. In actual fact, there is no separate energy called material energy and "Maya" is just a transformation of the spiritual potency. It is but the shadow energy of the pure spiritual potency of the Lord. The material energy is mainly responsible for the conditioning of the living entity as a form of punishment due to his forgetfulness of his relationship with the Supreme Lord. The living entity, on regaining his lost relationship with the Lord becomes surcharged with knowledge and bliss. However, if the material energy becomes predominant, it makes the living entities in their forgetfulness refer to this illusory energy (Maya) as all in all. This explains the worship of material nature (sakta). Gradually, the bewildered living entity, by long period of accumulation of pious merit, can be impelled into the position of acquiring divine knowledge (Vaishnava).

 

The question is raised again: do we sometimes compare Durga Devi to be a transcendental associate within the precincts of Gokula? The answer given by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura is:- yes! In the spiritual world Durga Devi is called YogaMaya. She is present as the seed-form in the changes of the spiritual energy. For this reason, she considers herself non-different from the original internal energy of the spiritual world. YogaMaya, also can be transformed into material energy, or shadow potency. The material goddess Durga Devi is the servitor of the spiritual aspect of the same Durga Devi.

 

The spiritual Durga Devi plays an important part in Lord Krishna's variegated pastimes as YogaMaya. The Srimad Bhagavatam (10/29/20) describes how the Lord takes shelter of His own internal potency in the love-sports of the gopis. (YogaMaya anupasritah). The internal energy which nourishes such divine pastimes may look like ignorance but in reality is an essential ingredient in the blossoming of these transcendental sports.

 

 

this is essential to understand ,Durga plays an important

part in Krishnas pastimes",what is that ?

 

As jiva goswami has pointed out,durga is identical to Krishna, if you see Her as anything else,you will not be liberated.

 

Durga is Shiva's consort, she is identical to Radha

and Krishna, this is the conception given to us

by Jiva Goswami, She is Yoga Maya, the internal energy,

through Her ,Krishna is enjoying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

so, what does it mean above when we are told the lord takes shelter of his own internal energy in the love sports

of the gopis ?

 

the gopis are identical to Krishna, As Prabhupada states,

Radha and Krishna are identical, the expansions ,plenary portions of Radha such as the goddess's of fortune, the damsels of Vraja,durga etc, are womanly forms of Krishna.

 

so Krishna tkes shelter of Yoga Maya, or Durga, who is Yoga Maya, in the love sports of the Gopis, He is identical to the gopis, and Durga, and in the love sports He is taking

shelter of them,is them, all the identical same person.

 

so, Krishna,Radha, and Durga are all identical

as Jiva goswami has pointed out, anyone who thinks

that there is a difference ,he says ,will not be liberated.

 

So, Siva -Sakti is not the same as

Radha-Krsna.

 

although, Radha and Durga or Sakti are

the same.

 

As Sanatana points out in Brhad Bhagavamtram,

the individual jiva tattva, can be elevated

and transformed into Siva tattva, which is different

then jiva tattva and visnu tattva, although in

essence is a jiva with more attributes.

 

form Bhaktivinode Thakur

 

"In the position of complete realization of the activity of the uncovered soul a person becomes eligible for participation in the Transcendental Pastime or Lila of Sri Krishna (Bh. 1/7/10 and Sridhara Swami's commentary on the same).

The realization of this all-absorbing Love for Sri Krishna is the FRUIT or Prayojana of the eternal spiritual activities of all pure souls. "

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by shiva:

this is from Bhaktisiddhanta

 

Ramananda, being further asked to subjoin the fullest reciprocity of madhurya rasa, advanced to delineate the counter reciprocal moiety of the whole by fixing the object in Sri Radhika. The highest step of devotion is displayed to serve the Pair and to utilize the full independence of the servitor to espouse the cause of the predominating aspect of the counter-whole by associating oneself in Her company. Ramanananda was found to describe the situation of the paraphernalia and the transcendental duties congenial to confidential service of attending maids of Sri Radhika which completed the full narration of the manifestive position of amorous Pair.

 

---------

 

here he says the highest service is to utilize your independence in to espouse the position of the predominator(krishna) by associating

in Her company.

 

this is the confidential service to the milkmaids,

Radha is the object of service(gopis are her)

you are meant to serve her by espousing the postion of the predominator

,-------------------------

from Prabhupada

 

"As already explained, Krsna and Radha are one in two. They are identical. Krsna expands Himself in multi-incarnations and plenary portions like the purusas. Similarly, Srimati Radharani expands Herself in multi-forms as the goddesses of fortune, the queens and the damsels of Vraja. Such expansions from Srimati Radharani are all Her plenary portions. ALL THESE WOMANLY FORMS OF KRSNA are expansions corresponding to His plenary expansions of Visnu forms. These expansions have been compared to reflected forms of the original form. There is no difference between the original and reflected forms. The female reflections of Krsna's pleasure potency are as good as Krsna Himself."

 

from A.C. Bhaktivedanta

 

She was very much aggrieved when her five sons were killed by Asvatthama. At the last stage, she accompanied her husband Yudhisthira and others and fell on the way. The cause of her falling was explained by Yudhisthira, but when Yudhisthira entered the heavenly planet he saw Draupadi gloriously present there as the goddess of fortune in the heavenly planet.

 

Draupadi was known by many names. She was known as Krsna due to her beautiful dark complexion, Parsati because she was the grand-daughter of King Prsata, Draupadi because she was the daughter of King Drupada and Pancali because she was the daughter of the King of Pancala. Pancali grew up in the palace of Drupada. Stories about her many previous births are found in the Puranas. During all these births many gods blessed her saying that she would have five husbands when she was born as the daughter of Drupada.

 

So asat-sabhayah. Then again, vana-vasa. Next betting was vana-vasa, that "If this time you lose, then twelve years, for twelve years you'll have to go to live in the forest. And one year, incognito. If you are caught up within that one year, then again twelve years." Just see. So vana-vasa-krcchratah. There were so many dangers. So just imagine that the Pandavas, they had their wife, Draupadi... SHE IS INCARNATION OF GODDESS OF FORTUNE. And friend, Krsna, who is always protecting them... But still, there are so many dangers. This is the instruction, that because Krsna is protecting you, you cannot expect that you'll be out of danger. Danger you must meet, because..., then you'll know that this material existence is full of dangers. Padam padam yad vipadam. This we always remember. We should not be so fool that "I am living very now comfortably." No, sir. You are in danger. That is said by Krsna. Duhkhalayam asasvatam [bg. 8.15]. You do not take this material existence as comfortable at any moment. Then you'll not be able to make progress in spiritual life. As soon as you think that "I am very comfortable here," then you are spiritually fall down. That is maya. As soon as...

---------------

 

THIS IS FROM JIVA GOSAWAMI

 

"Krishna is Durga. Durga is Krishna. One who sees that they are different will not become liberated from the cycle of repeated birth and death."

 

Durga is the personal potency of Lord Krishna, and therefore she is Lord Krishna Himself. For this reason Durga should not be considered manifested from a portion of the Lord's illusory potency Maya. This fact is confirmed by the following stat ement of the Nirukti:

 

"She is identical with Gokula's queen Sri Radha, who possesses a great treasure of love for Krishna. By her grace the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of all living entities, is easily understood.

 

"Simply by understanding her one immediately attains the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not otherwise.

---------------

 

FROM THE BRAHMA VAIVARATA PURANA

"Among my favorites Brahma is dear to Me.

 

Lakshmi, ever residing on my chest, is dearer than Brahma.

 

Radha is yet dearer, and my devotees are dearer still.

 

Dearest of all is Shankara (Siva); no one is dearer than He.

 

My heart resides with my devotees, My life with Radha.

 

My Self with Sankara, who is dearer than My life."

---------

 

Srimad

Bhagavatam 12.13.17

 

"Just as the celestial Ganges is the most Holy among all the flowing rivers,

just as Lord Krishna is the Supreme among all Divine Personalties,

just as Lord Siva is the most Exalted Lover of Vishnu,

just as the City of Kasi is the most Sacred among all Holy places,

Srimad Bhagavatam is also the most fulfilling vow as well as the most elevated Scripture among all other auspicious Puranas."

----------

 

from Prabhupada

 

"The most confidential part of knowledge is that one should become a pure devotee of Krsna and always think of Him and act for Him. One should not become an official meditator. Life should be so molded that one will always have the chance to think of Krsna. One should always act in such a way that all his daily activities are in connection with Krsna. He should arrange his life in such a way that throughout the twenty-four hours he cannot but think of Krsna. And the Lord's promise is that anyone who is in such pure Krsna consciousness will certainly return to the abode of Krsna, where he will be engaged in the association of Krsna face to face. This most confidential part of knowledge is spoken to Arjuna because he is the dear friend of Krsna. Everyone who follows the path of Arjuna can become a dear friend to Krsna and obtain the same perfection as Arjuna."

[Guest guest]

If i ask you why did Sri Caitanya incarnate ?

 

you might say, first to taste the mellow

of ecstacy that Radha experiences, then

also to distribute that highest conception

to the most fallen.

 

then i might ask,

 

well ,Radha and Krishna,we are told are the same,identical,Radha is Krishna,Krishna is Radha,

Why would god need to taste something that

is always being tasted ?

 

Since Sri Caitanya is god, and god is one,

he is Krishna and Radha, what is really

meant by the words

"Krishna desires to

taste what he is not tasting, Radha's ecstacy,

which is millions of times more sublime then what He is tasting".

 

Literally this makes no sense,it is illogical,

Radha and Krishna are identical, the same ,

Krishna is Radha, of course He knows what Radha

is experiencing, HE IS RADHA !

 

So,literally the reason for Mahaprabhus descent

is not sensible,it is symbolic of an inner truth.

 

Bhaktivinode says that the reasons for Mahaprabhus descent is very confidential.

 

Why does the shastra say the Krishna

wants to know what Radha is experiencing ?

 

This is symbolic language meant to teach

us the real nature of God.

 

Mahaprabhu is Krishna on the outside, Radha

on the inside.

 

this is the most intimate conception,

god is all powerfull, Purusa,Isvara,

the strength of the strong, etc.

 

externally god is

displaying masculine qualities,

but internally, Radha.

 

Who is Radha ?

She is Krishna.

 

Who is Mahaprabhu ?

Krishna teaching us about himself.

 

what is that ?

 

He is externally masculine, Krishna,

but internally , Radha.

 

both are one, but Radha is the interior

identity.

[Guest guest]

this is from Srila Prabhupada

 

"One who is not a great controller should never imitate the behavior of ruling personalities, even mentally. If out of foolishness an ordinary person does imitate such behavior, he will simply destroy himself, just as a person who is not Rudra would destroy himself if he tried to drink an ocean of poison."

 

The purport of this is that one who is not an isvara truly qualified by being endowed with divine potency should never even mentally contemplate, perform or imitate the Lord's rasa-lila. Only Lord Siva himself is able to drink an entire ocean of poison. If an unqualified person who is arudra (not Siva) falsely considers himself to be greatly qualified and tries to drink poison in the form of hearing and chanting about the rasa-lila, then he would certainly die — that is, he would become tightly bound within the death-like condition of samsara or gross material existence.

 

Yet another topic is necessarily indicated at this point. Srila (Sanatana) Goswamipada has revealed that the final sloka of Damodarastakam shows Sri Krsna's pastimes headed by the rasa-lila to be the topmost of all. He states "Since these are the topmost of confidential topics, they are not mentioned directly. Therefore such confidential pastimes are referred to by a mere hint only, as they are offered obeisances in the words namo 'nanta-lilaya.' The meaning of this is that because the rasa-lila is the most highly confidential pastime of the Lord, therefore Satyavrata Muni has mentioned it only with the briefest clue or tiniest glimpse. By so doing, he has made it known that it is always inappropriate to casually hear and chant about the rasa-lila here and there, whenever and wherever. Not only that, but if an unqualified person deceives himself with an attempt to banish lust, but then contemplates, performs or imitates the rasa-lila, then such a person certainly becomes degraded due to the offense of minimizing the glories of the factually transcendental rasa-lila. Eventually he will fall down to become a lusty debauchee and attached householder, just like the prakrta-sahajiyas who prematurely dabble in the highest truth.

 

"I know the true purpose of Bhagavatam; Sukadeva, the son and disciple of Vyasadeva, knows it thoroughly, and the author of the Bhagavatam, Srila Vyasadeva, may or may not know the meaning."

 

Vyasadeva may or may not know, vyaso vetti na vetti va. This is the thinking of the higher class of devotees. By the will of the Supreme Lord a flow of knowledge may come down in the Vaishnava, but even he may not be aware of its meaning. Such is possible – he may or may not know, vyaso vetti na vetti va.

 

"We cannot understand the affairs of the spiritual world on the basis of our experience in the material world. The Lord's pastimes with the gopis are therefore misunderstood by mundane scholars and word-wranglers. The parakiya-rasa of the spiritual world should not be discussed except by one who is very advanced in pure devotional service."

 

---------------------

 

 

repeatedly we are told, as I have posted

that ONLY THE MOST ADVANCED,HIGHEST LEVEL

VAISNAVA CAN EVEN UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ABOUT RASA AND RAGANUGA.

 

So this is the dilemma,

What is the mental state of the most advanced,

highest level vaisnava ?

 

that we all know, or should, he feels himself

to be the lowest, this is the nature of the highest devotee, he does not see himself as the highest.

 

so the highest level devotee will never perform the so called raganuga bhakti , the mental fantasizing, etc.

 

why ?

 

because he is accepting of the instructions

of the authorized guru, who says, "

only the most advanced can understand,or even try and understand raganuga or rasa".

 

so the actual advanced devotee will NEVER make the attempt to folow that "raganuga mental fantasy ", ALWAYS he will think himself unqualified.

 

ONLY THE PRETENDER, ONLY THE EGOTISTIC DEVOTEE,

WHO DISREGARDS THE AUTHORIZED GURU, ONLY THAT PERSON WILL THINK HIMSELF QUALIFIED, AND THEN , THE RESULT, HE WILL FOLLOW THE RAGAGNUGA BHAJAN,

AND WILL BE PURIFIED BY IT.

 

But make no mistake about it, that process is ONLY for the egotistic , unqualified person,

who disregards the guru's warnings, IN FACT

THAT RAGAGNUGA BHAJAN IS STRICTLY FOR THAT PERSON, ALONE.

 

The real advanced devotee, who is actually

in the confidence of Sri Guru and Gauranga,

will have the truth of raganuga and rasa

revealed to him, the symbolism that rasa and raganuga is written in, will become revealed

to him.

 

without understanding siddhanta, we are told ,you can never actually please Krishna.

 

Without understanding the true nature of the confidential lila, all that will be seen is the external , the internal reality will not be understood.

 

So, the truth is revealed by Srila Prabhupada,

Krishna is Radha,Radha is Krishna, they

are one and the same, when Krishna wants to

enjoy, HE BECOMES RADHA, SHE IS KRISHNA'S WOMANLY FORMS, AS ARE ALL THE DAMSELS OF VRAJA AND ALL THE GODDESS'S OF FORTUNE.

 

As Bhaktivinode says, there is only one potency

of godhead, one energy, That is Radhika when she is enjoying, and visnu when she is working.

 

without understanding this essential fact, any attempt to understand rasa and raganuga will be useless.

 

Radha and Krishnas pastimes have an internal and an external nature.

 

the internal is what is real, the external is only what is seen.

 

the internal can only be understood when you understand that Radha and Krishna are one person,

two forms, not two persons.

 

Otherwise all you will see is the external, the

rasa you will see between them will be misunderstood, the true nature of rasa lila

will be lost on you.

 

but if you think yourself qualified to understand rasa and raganuga, without understand the symbolism inherent in the descriptions, well...

go ahead....try and be a gopi......

you must be qualified.............

good luck with that.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

The combination of hasya, adbhuta, karuna rasas added to the delicious taste of madhurya which could not be compared with any other representation of the kind. There are various means by which the services of Krishna are attained and these variegated aspects can be judged with their respective merits. A servitor is to select, by his predilection, the acme of the function of his soul. But there is a distinctive reference of comparative study if we are not guided by a definite principle. A comparative scrutinization would certainly give us to know the additional qualities, as we find in examining ether, etc., augmented by successive additional attributes and reach the climax with the association of the five in the solid representation. The Personality of Godhead can only be had to accept our unalloyed loving service through love alone and not by reverential procedure. Sri Krishna being the very fountain-head of all resorts of rasa, He is ever prepared to welcome every ser vitor whoever he and whatever his serving procedure may be.

 

But if the object is distorted like our confusing Jehovah with Moloch and Moloch with Jehovah, we would certainly miss the kindly feelings of Krishna. This conception in scrutinizing ourselves will lead us astray from the true object. Our eternal functions and activities if misdirected will give us troubles and if we fall to determine Krishna, Who is the sole attractor of the unalloyed entities of souls, we will certainly miss to apprehend the process inculcated by Ramananda. Our wrong and erroneous promulgation will never enable us to get the best benefit that can be had by us if we fail to single out loving tenor to Krishna against Dharma, artha, kama and moksha, i.e., by our limited propensity of limited elevation and salvation.

 

Ramananda, being further asked to subjoin the fullest reciprocity of madhurya rasa, advanced to delineate the counter reciprocal moiety of the whole by fixing the object in Sri Radhika. The highest step of devotion is displayed to serve the Pair and to utilize the full independence of the servitor to espouse the cause of the predominating aspect of the counter-whole by associating oneself in Her company. Ramanananda was found to describe the situation of the paraphernalia and the transcendental duties congenial to confidential service of attending maids of Sri Radhika which completed the full narration of the manifestive position of amorous Pair.

 

 

conclusion

 

 

In analyzing the narrative we find that we have got an outward structure apart from the physical sight of things. We have got an inner situation as distinguished from the entire contemplative plane where meditating entities are set apart from us. A holder of the physical body and owner of the contemplating spirit has got a common fountainhead Who or Which is asserted as the owner of the two possessions and this proprietor forms a part of the spiritual whole with Whom the person is fully associated. The spiritual tie between the integral spirit and fractions is roughly known as "meditation". This meditation at the very sight proves to have reference to physical and mental qualities. Both these qualities are shiftable. So the factor of time puts them into different chambers and this location is restricted to finitudinal inadequacies. If the spirit is detached from the integer, the associating tie will be observed to be "meditation"; so the purport of meditation is hampered by th e contamination of a different element which is known as matter, being opposite to the spiritual bearing. The very preamble of the Bhagavata school goes to signify the function of the spirit as meditation. If this is judged in the ordinary eye we get the position of the "doer" isolated and joined by a tie or deed which is an instrumental. When love acts as medium between All-love and Love, all the different aspects of bhakti are included in the word dhyanam, or meditation in worldly language. The unalloyed entity will dispel all foreign matters that are included as attributes to suit the relativity of an enjoyer and an enjoyed. The pure unadulterated spiritual attempt of an unalloyed spirit should in no case be confused with the temporal association of material phenomena whether gross or subtle.

 

Ramananda belonged to the Bhagavata school, so all his activities were pure and instructive, if they were properly followed. The word "following" should not be confused with inadequate or improper relativities of our enjoying mood, which are but defective. The seeming features of things should not predominate over our weak reasonings. If we indulge in such feeble criticism, we would fail to have the full conception of the object of meditation. The object has been described as "Krishna" or 'Shyama", "Blue Black" or "Dark" i.e. void of all material colors. The hasty sight will deter us to espy the accurate conception. Our bitter experience of relativity will tell us to having the upper hand to get rid of the inadequacy and will instigate our common sense to claim identity with the Whole instead of having firm determination to stick to our real position. In order to get rid of posing as an integer, which is but a tentative adumbration of depriving ourselves from the absolute position, Krishna's mercy was fully displayed in Ramananda; so he was constantly busy with the greatest perfection of eternal blissful knowledge. His entity has been analyzed by his deeds as thoroughly associated with the unalloyed spiritual manifestations. Though his deeds are not approved by the enjoying mood of observers, still a keen penetration and longer sight would surely help the people to learn the Absolute Truth from his pastimes. The Supreme Lord sent Pradyumna Mishra, a brahmana, to pick up some instructions so as to lead him to perfection. The learner was confused to see Ramananda busy with the serving of dancing girls, paying no attention to him. The seeming features did not attract him to accurately observe the divine spiritual deeds of the host. The Supreme Lord gave him to understand to have patience to penetrate into the Real Absolute for which every soul is meant to equip himself for the eternal and transcendental journey.

 

Ramananda's trait of character is painted by the Supreme Lord in equality with Sri Rupa and Sri Sanatana who played the part of model ascetics. Ramananda had no affinity of enjoying the world, but he was always on the look-out of rendering service to Sri Krishna by inducing the serving-maids for unalloyed amorous purposes pertaining to the eternal pastimes. Silly observations are often found to misunderstand the whole thing, and they are observed to take the lowest level of non-ethical principles.

 

Ramananda's Maithili song has disclosed startling pastimes which are hardly to come under the rationalistic scope of mundane thinkers. And this was fully participated in by the Supreme Lord in the company of His intimate friends. His own verse, "Pida bhirna vakala kuta katubhih" is the full parade of speedy loving service to Krishna, instead of submitting to passionate feats.

 

The Supreme Lord has furnished the highest testimonial of the spiritual life in Ramananda. The Supreme Lord spent His last days in the close companionship of this picked-up serving temper with His most confidential associates. His drama served as one of the constant companions of the Supreme Lord's direct service to Krishna. Ramananda was recognized as one of the four mukta purushas of the time of the Supreme Lord and he was certified to be the only friend who had no equal among the bhaktas He met in the South. But alas! the highest platform of a devotee is often taken advantage of by the greatest scoundrels and thereby the providential will is carried fully by preventing intelligent pedants to have access to the eternal world where knowledge is infinity and bliss is incessant. He was not an instructor to teach merely how to get rid of this mundane bondage but served as an advance-guide of eternally unfettered liberated souls in their incessant unalloyed service of the pastim es of Krishna, who have no connection with or reference to the mundane relative service of the Lord.

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i only post these things in order to show the reality

as opposed to the supposed reality being promulgated

as truth.