karma-yoga

[theist]

What is karma-yoga?

 

Would someone elaborate on these words from Srila Prabhupada which are found in a purport to the 2nd mantra in Isopanishad?

[livingentity]

simply devotional service to the Lord?

[atma]

I just read the 2nd mantra to Sri Isopanishad and from there I read Bhagavad Gita (18.5-9). Now I can go to sleep in good consciousness.

[livingentity]

so much about Audarya Fellowship!!! Not only is there wonderful association but I am encouraged to research and my attention is directed to the scriptures.

 

How many of us are reading the 2nd mantra and BG 18.5-9 right now?

 

Hare Krsna!!!

 

Thanks Theist!!!

[theist]

I am trying to redirect my consciousness from all this harsh worldly reality. But I cannot ignore what I see. On one hand I know its a dream but on the other hand I know, though temporary, its real.

 

I don't really have a taste for strict devotional practice. A little here and there, hit or miss. And I am surely far from any genuine spontaneous love or affection for the Supreme Person.

 

On top of that, I am not inclined to the rigors of detachment or deep philosophical study.

 

I do get involved in various social action projects. Is it possible for me to dovetail these types of actions in Krsna's service? And what are the particulars, the specifics.

 

I just noticed I forgot to place the quote from Isopanishad in the original post. Sorry. So I will do it here.

 

When altruistic activities are executed in the spirit of Sri Isopaniñad, they become a form of karma-yoga. Such activities are recommended in the Bhagavad-gétä (18.5-9), for they guarantee their executor protection from the danger of sliding down into the evolutionary process of birth and death. Even though such God-centered activities may be half-finished, they are still good for the executor because they will guarantee him a human form in his next birth. In this way one can have another chance to improve his position on the path of liberation.

 

So what is "the spirit of Isopanishad"?

 

[livingentity]

I am glad you have brought this up. This is something that I have been trying to understand for a very long time.

 

Spirit of Sri Isopanisad???

[Guest guest]

Sri Isopanishad mean:"the knowledge that brings one nearer to the Supreme Person, Krsna."

In the same purport in the second mantra it says: "the Vedic instruction of Sri Isopanishad if that if one actually wants to live for any of the abobe "isms",he should make them God-centered. There is no harm in becoming a family man, or an altruist, a socialist, a communist, a nationalist or a humanitarian, provided that one executes his activities in relation with isavasya, the God-centered conception."

 

It seems to me this is the spirit of Sri Isopanishad.

 

Atma

 

[livingentity]

"Consequently Sri Isopanisad advises us to exert our energy in the spirit of isavasya (the God-centered conception)."

[livingentity]

basically the same thing at the same time!! Hare Krsna!!

[Guest guest]

Like in Bhagavad Gita 18.5 says:

 

Acts of sacrifice, charity and penance are not to be given up;they must be performed. Indeed sacrifice, charity and penance purify even the great souls".

 

When you give charity you should give it to saintly persons or distribute prasada to the general people. Your sacrifices should be for the pleasure of the Lord like fasting in Ekadasis or other special days .

For grihasthas to follow the samskaras for purification is a must.

I'm working because I have to mantain my children and if I can engage that money in Krsna consciousness I'm advancing spiritually. Now, I'm saving to give a donation for Ratha Yatra and at the same time I'm taking care of children who are devotees of the Lord. In due time they will get married and there another purificatory process will be performed. As much as possible with all my shortcomings I'm trying to raise my family with God in the center. Having deities at home help for the consciousness of the family. I make a point when I enter home to say aloud the names of the deities and greet Them, hoping the children will follow the example and immediately I put a little laxmi in the box for Ratha Yatra trying to purify my work.

At night before go to sleep, Prabhupada's tape is on, otherwise I dream non-sense and I'm in anxiety.

It would be great if I can do more but I'm very conditioned and I waste my time a lot.

 

Maybe I can purify my work place a little more and help the devotees who come there. I'm getting some ideas now. I need a little karma yoga in my life.

 

Atma

 

 

 

 

 

[srivats]

Is doing ones duty in the name of god and not expecting anything in return is Karma Yoga ?

 

Can someone please explain in simple terms.

 

I am in very basic in spirituality and i need all your help in understanding things better.

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Srivats

[anadi]

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu ordered Ramananda Raya to recite a verse from the revealed scriptures concerning the ultimate goal of life.

Ramananda replied that if one executes the prescribed duties of his social position, he awakens his original Krsna consciousness.

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Visnu, is worshiped by the proper execution of prescribed duties in the system of varna and asrama. There is no other way to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One must be situated in the institution of the four varnas and asramas."

 

The Lord replied, "This is external. You had better tell Me of some other means."

 

Ramananda replied,

"To offer the results of one's activities to Krsna is the essence of all perfection."

<font color="blue"> yat karosi yad asnasi

yaj juhosi dadasi yat

yat tapasyasi kaunteya

tat kurusva mad-arpanam</font color>

" 'My dear son of Kunti, whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer in sacrifice, whatever you give in charity, and whatever austerities you perform, <font color="red"> all the results of such activities should be offered to Me, Krsna,</font color> the Supreme Personality of Godhead.' "

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said.

"This is also external,"

"Please proceed and speak further on this matter."

 

Ramananda Raya replied, "To give up one's occupational duties in the varnasrama is the essence of perfection."

 

Ramananda Raya continued,

" 'Occupational duties are described in the religious scriptures. If one analyzes them, he can fully understand their qualities and faults and then give them up completely to render service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such a person is considered a first-class man.'

 

"As stated in scripture [bg. 18.66], 'After giving up all kinds of religious and occupational duties, if you come to Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and take shelter, I will give you protection from all of life's sinful reactions. Do not worry.' "

 

After hearing Ramananda Raya speak in this way,

Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu again rejected his statement and said,

"Go ahead and say something more."

 

<font color="red"> Better as karma yoga is jnana mishra bhakti</font color>

but to a given point one should reject it too

Ramananda Raya then replied, "Devotional service mixed with empiric knowledge is the essence of perfection."

Ramananda Raya continued,

 

<font color="blue"> brahma-bhutah prasannatma

na socati na kanksati

samah sarvesu bhutesu

mad-bhaktim labhate param</font color>

"According to the Bhagavad-gita, 'One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me.' "

 

After hearing this, <font color="blue"> the Lord, as usual, rejected it</font color> , considering it to be <font color="blue"> external devotional service</font color> .

 

[srivats]

I went through this, but still i have clear doubt what is karma yoga , please forgive my ignorance pls tell me in your term and simple terms.

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Srivats

[theist]

We want to stick with karma-yoga a bit even though we know there are more intimate states up ahead.Grounded, down to earth, practical.

 

At what point do altruistic activities become a type of karma-yoga?

 

Say for example someone is working to end the suffering of animals in slaughterhouses but has no real spiritual understanding, doesn't understand the presence of the soul at all, but just appreciates that causing that needless suffering is wrong. And is pained to see it happen. Is this karma-yoga? If not then how does one so engaged change to make it karma-yoga?

 

 

[anadi]

The chapter 3 of Bhagavat gita is dealing about karma yoga.

Yoga through the principle of action.

In his translation of the Bhagavat-gita, in the preface of this chapter, my gurudeva says,

 

"When the jiva has heard Sri Krsna's instructions,

he understands that karma yoga consists of endeavours

performed without selfish desires (nishkama bhava),

for the service of Sri Bhagavan.

 

If the heart is full of desires for sense enjoyment, accepting the garb of a sannyasi is not actual sannyasa but hypocrisy, and can never bring auspiciousness .

The jiva should perform his karma (activity) as service to Bhagavan, because performing karma for sense enjoyment does not produce any auspicious result.

Performing of karma such as Vedic yajnas can award mundane sense pleasure, but such pleasure is temporary and mixed with distress.

However karma yoga purifies the heart .

It is therefore auspicious to give up all types of akarma, vikarma and sakama karma (karma

Performed with diseres for material results),

and adopt only <font color="blue"> niskama karma yoga </font color> offered to Bhagavan ."

 

yat karosi yad asnasi

yaj juhosi dadasi yat

yat tapasyasi kaunteya

tat kurusva mad-arpanam

 

" 'My dear son of Kunti,

whatever you do,

whatever you eat,

whatever you offer in sacrifice,

whatever you give in charity,

and whatever austerities you perform,

all the results of such activities should be offered to Me, Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.' "

 

But hearing the glories of the nama guna rupa lila of Sri Bhagavan from the lips of of <font color="blue"> bhavuka, rasika bhaktas</font color> , is most auspicious, because it directly waters the bhakti lata bija (the seed of devotional creeper) and gives one seva vasana (the desire to serve) our Lord of Lords.

[theist]

anadi,

 

That was a nice offering. I know that the highest welfare work is the spreading of Krsna Conscious understanding. One can work at some job and give his extra money to support the temple or some preaching ministry.

 

But what I am looking for is here is how are altruistic activities, to be done in the spirit of Isopanishad?

 

Let's take an example. Someone is attached to closing down the local slaughter house where they are slaughtering millions of chickens every year.(I purposely avoided cows in the example).They have no personal idea that by doing this they may be benefited in a future birth in some way. They are not making any money in this endeavor. In fact they are spending personal money time and energy in these efforts. How do they, or can they, turn this activity into a form of karma-yoga?

[Avinash]

Let's take an example. Someone is attached to closing down the local slaughter house where they are slaughtering millions of chickens every year.(I purposely avoided cows in the example).They have no personal idea that by doing this they may be benefited in a future birth in some way. They are not making any money in this endeavor. In fact they are spending personal money time and energy in these efforts. How do they, or can they, turn this activity into a form of karma-yoga?

 

Isn't this activity already karma-yoga?

[srivats]

Thats pretty nice and easy going explanation.

 

to logically conclude

 

"endeavours performed without selfish desires in the name of god is called karma yoga "

 

It has given me a new outlook to the things i do

 

Thanks freinds

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala /images/graemlins/laugh.gif!

Srivats

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

"endeavours performed without selfish desires in the name of god is called karma yoga "

 

 

That is a very vague and otherwise unsatisfactory definition of Karma Yoga.

 

Performing action without selfish motives is impossible - period. Being selfish is not just doing things for oneself but includes performing actions for others as well. The man working to provide his family with a better life is not doing it for himself - but is nonetheless selfish. Similary the do-gooder who performs charity does so only because it makes him feel good about himself. If charity made him feel bad about himself or induced no feelings in him, he would not lift a hand to help. In short, all voluntary acts are selfish and it is impossible to work without being selfish. A common example is that of a mother who sacrificed a lot for her kids. Sacrificed some joys - yes, but the sacrifice was because she got a greater satisfaction by doing so for her kids. There is the selfishness. Btw, selfishness is not wrong. It is by design; very natural and is therefore found in all people without exception.

 

The results of our actions are not in our hands. X can draw up an elaborate plan, put in a lot of effort and things can still go wrong - thus proving that the results were beyond X. Similary even if things worked out according to plan, the fact of the matter is that the results were *still* beyond X. However, owing to all the effort put in, X mistakenly assumes that he was responsible for the outcome. Understanding this and therefore understanding that the results of our actions are beyond us, and dilligently discharging our duties is Karma-yoga. Consult the BG for more info.

 

Cheers

 

[anadi]

Dear Theist Prabhu,

dandavat pranama,

 

Your question was like

 

How do they, or can they, turn this activity into a form of karma-yoga?

 

Which activity?

1. Running a slaughter house?

2. Selling the slaughter house and giving the money in charity?

 

1. Running a slaughter house is vikarma (forbiden action)

Vikarma-yoga doesn t exist.

Vikarma doesn t purify the heart,

is very hard to belive that one runs a slaughter house and gives some money for the service of the Lord, without material desires (akama).

 

Only by sukritis from previous lives, one may have the good fortune to meet a certain type of devotee and

take a certain type of association,

for a certain time.

Then maybe he can live that sort of abominable occupation.

 

2. Selling the slaughter house and giving the money in spiritual charity

is one exceptional activity

is not the way karma yoga goes (karma yoga purifies gradually the heart)

But!

If he uses that money for the service of Krsna, he will be eternally benefited, and by this sukriti he will come near to the association with sadhu (the holy person).

 

 

all gloris to sri guru and gaura

all glories to Srimati Radharani

 

[theist]

No anadi sorry I wasn't more clear. I meant the person who is working to close the slaughter house. This is more than just an intellectual excercise for me as I speak with people like this all the time.

 

Many are professed atheists or agnostics. Some believe in God, personal or impersonal conception. Occasionaly I met someone who may be open to some idea or sense of seeing that activity(helping animals) as some means of serving the purpose of God.

 

So I am trying to understand how such activities can be spiritualized. I have some ideas myself but wanted to hear others ideas on this. So far my attempts to communicate these ideas have not been very effective. There are alot of well meaning people in the world, working in the humanitarian field, or those related. To me it makes no sense to ask them to give up those pious works in the name of serving God. But ultimately those pious works if done in the sense of God's service will yield only temporary results. How to harmonize this all coherently with scriptural support is what I am trying to do.

 

The scriptures always talk of offering the results of our prescribed duties.How do I know what is a prescribed duty in todays jumbled up world?

 

I approach protesting social issues like animal slaughter and abortion from this angle. The animal form houses a soul that is sentient and is therefore worthy of some compassion. So I want to end the needless slaughter. I also want to stop others from slaughtering the animal because I believe they will then implicate themselves more and more in that cycle and themselves take birth in animal form and be taken to a slaughterhouse.

 

Same with an abortion with the added injustice of denying someone a human form and thus a direct chance to inquire and hear about the self and God.

 

[theist]

 

Sri Isopanishad mean:"the knowledge that brings one nearer to the Supreme Person, Krsna."

In the same purport in the second mantra it says: "the Vedic instruction of Sri Isopanishad if that if one actually wants to live for any of the abobe "isms",he should make them God-centered. There is no harm in becoming a family man, or an altruist, a socialist, a communist, a nationalist or a humanitarian, provided that one executes his activities in relation with isavasya, the God-centered conception."

 

It seems to me this is the spirit of Sri Isopanishad.

 

Atma<<

 

Atma, I wonder now if this post isn't really all I needed. I may be over complicating somthing rather simple. Do you think?

 

 

[theist]

"Isn't this activity already karma-yoga? "

 

That is what I wonder. Can it be a form of yoga with no conception of God? As was said just working to feel better about myself and extended self.

 

 

[atma]

Re: over thinking?

 

 

Sri Isopanishad mean:"the knowledge that brings one nearer to the Supreme Person, Krsna."

In the same purport in the second mantra it says: "the Vedic instruction of Sri Isopanishad if that if one actually wants to live for any of the abobe "isms",he should make them God-centered. There is no harm in becoming a family man, or an altruist, a socialist, a communist, a nationalist or a humanitarian, provided that one executes his activities in relation with isavasya, the God-centered conception."

 

It seems to me this is the spirit of Sri Isopanishad.

 

Atma<<

 

Atma, I wonder now if this post isn't really all I needed. I may be over complicating somthing rather simple. Do you think?

 

 

Just read again the above paragraph. Your answer is there. I think.

 

Atma