Narayana the Supreme Personality of Godhead

[SDdasa]

Post deleted by jndas

[gHari]

Bhagavad-gita As It Is 10.42<blockquote><center>atha vA bahunaitena

kiM jJAtena tavArjuna

viSTabhyAham idaM kRtsnam

ekAMzena sthito jagat

</center>

atha vA--or; bahunA--many; etena--by this kind; kim--what; jJAtena--by knowing; tava--your; arjuna--O Arjuna; viSTabhya--pervading; aham--I; idam--this; kRtsnam--entire; eka--by one; aMzena--part; sthitaH--am situated; jagat--universe.

 

But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe.

 

PURPORT

The Supreme Lord is represented throughout the entire material universes by His entering into all things as the Supersoul. The Lord here tells Arjuna that there is no point in understanding how things exist in their separate opulence and grandeur. He should know that all things are existing due to KRSNa's entering them as Supersoul. From BrahmA, the most gigantic entity, on down to the smallest ant, all are existing because the Lord has entered each and all and is sustaining them.

 

There is a Mission that regularly propounds that worship of any demigod will lead one to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or the supreme goal. But worship of demigods is thoroughly discouraged herein because even the greatest demigods like BrahmA and Siva represent only part of the opulence of the Supreme Lord. He is the origin of everyone born, and no one is greater than Him. He is asamaurdhva, which means that no one is superior to Him and that no one is equal to Him. In the Padma PurANa it is said that one who considers the Supreme Lord KRSNa in the same category with demigods--be they even BrahmA or Siva--becomes at once an atheist. If, however, one thoroughly studies the different descriptions of the opulences and expansions of KRSNa's energy, then one can understand without any doubt the position of Lord SrI KRSNa and can fix his mind in the worship of KRSNa without deviation. The Lord is all-pervading by the expansion of His partial representation, the Supersoul, who enters into everything that is. Pure devotees, therefore, concentrate their minds in KRSNa consciousness in full devotional service; therefore they are always situated in the transcendental position. Devotional service and worship of KRSNa are very clearly indicated in this chapter in verses eight through eleven. That is the way of pure devotional service. How one can attain the highest devotional perfection of association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been thoroughly explained in this chapter. SrIla Baladeva VidyAbhUSaNa, a great AcArya in disciplic succession from KRSNa, concludes his commentary on this chapter by saying,

 

yac-chakti-lezAt suryAdyA

bhavanty aty-ugra-tejasaH

yad-aMzena dhRtaM vizvaM

sa kRSNo dazame 'rcyate

 

From Lord KRSNa's potent energy even the powerful sun gets its power, and by KRSNa's partial expansion the whole world is maintained. Therefore Lord SrI KRSNa is worshipable.

 

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta Purports to the Tenth Chapter of the SrImad Bhagavad-gItA in the matter of the Opulence of the Absolute.

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Dear dear SDdasa, please take care because you know this is all very complicated. To make such rash pronouncements certainly is dangerous; there is no need to have any opinion. Risking offending Krsna's pure devotees is very very unwise. To think we know anything is really very very arrogant for as He says, by just a splark of His splendor He pervades everything. How are we experts? First be smart enough to know Lord Narayana, then get your opinion from Him. This is the safe approach.

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gHari

[gHari]

These ideas are clarified in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya:<blockquote>

His Forms Are One and the Same

 

By devotional service one can understand that KRSNa first of all manifests Himself as svayam-rUpa, His personal form, then as tadekAtma-rUpa, and then as Aveza-rUpa. It is in these three features that He manifests Himself in His transcendental form. The feature of svayam-rUpa is the form by which KRSNa can be understood by one who may not understand His other features. In other words, the form by which KRSNa is directly understood is called svayam-rUpa, or His personal form. The tadekAtma-rUpa is that form which most resembles the svayam-rUpa, but there are some differences in the bodily features. The tadekAtma-rUpa is divided into two manifestations--the personal expansion (svAMza) and the pastime expansion (vilAsa). As far as the Aveza-rUpa is concerned, when KRSNa empowers some suitable living entity to represent Him, that living entity is called Aveza-rUpa, or zaktyAveza-avatAra.

 

The personal form of KRSNa can be divided into two: svayam-rUpa and svayam-prakAza. As far as His svayam-rUpa (or pastime form) is concerned, it is in that form that He remains always in VRndAvana with the inhabitants of VRndAvana. This personal form (svayam-rUpa) can be further divided into the prAbhava and vaibhava forms. For instance, KRSNa expanded Himself in multiple forms during the rAsa dance in order to dance with each and every gopI who took part in forms in order to accommodate His 16,108 wives. There are some instances of great mystics' also expanding their bodily features in different ways, but KRSNa did not expand Himself by any yoga process. Each expansion of KRSNa was a separate individual. In Vedic history, Saubhari RSi, a sage, expanded himself into eight forms by the yoga process, but Saubhari RSi remained one. As far as KRSNa is concerned, when He manifested Himself in different forms, each and every one of them was a separate individual. When NArada Muni visited KRSNa at different palaces at DvArakA, he was astonished at this, and yet NArada is never astonished to see expansions of a yogI's body, since he knows the trick himself. Yet in SrImad-BhAgavatam it is stated that NArada was actually astonished to see the expansions of KRSNa. He wondered how the Lord was present with His queens in each and every one of His 16,108 palaces. With each queen, KRSNa Himself was in a different form, and He was acting in different ways. In one form He was engaged in playing with His children, and in yet another form He was performing some household work. These different activities are conducted by the Lord when He is in His "emotional" forms, which are known as vaibhava-prakAza expansions. Similarly, there are other unlimited expansions of the forms of KRSNa, but even when they are divided or expanded without limit, they are still one and the same. There is no difference between one form and another. That is the absolute nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

In SrImad-BhAgavatam it is stated that when AkrUra was accompanying both KRSNa and BalarAma from Gokula to MathurA, he entered into the waters of the YamunA River and could see in the waters all the planets in the spiritual sky. He also saw there the Lord in His ViSNu form as well as NArada and the four KumAras, who were worshiping Him. As stated in the BhAgavata PurANa (BhAg. 10.40.7):

 

anye ca saMskRtAtmAno

vidhinAbhihitena te

yajanti tvan-mayAs tvAM vai

bahumUrty-ekamUrtikam

 

There are many worshipers who are purified by different processes of worship--such as the VaiSNavas or the Aryans--who also worship the Supreme Lord according to their convictions and spiritual understanding. Each process of worship involves understanding different forms of the Lord, as mentioned in scriptures, but the ultimate idea is to worship the Supreme Lord Himself.

 

In His vaibhava-prakAza feature, the Lord manifests Himself as BalarAma. The BalarAma feature is as good as KRSNa Himself, the only difference being that the bodily hue of KRSNa is dark and that of BalarAma is fair. The vaibhava-prakAza form was also displayed when KRSNa appeared before His Mother DevakI in the four-handed form of NArAyaNa, just when He entered the world. At the request of His parents, however, He transformed Himself into a two-handed form. Thus He sometimes manifests four hands and sometimes two. The two-handed form is actually vaibhava-prakAza, and the four-handed form is prAbhava-prakAza. In His personal form, KRSNa is just like a cowherd boy, and He thinks of Himself in that way. But when He is in the VAsudeva form, He thinks of Himself as the son of a kSatriya and acts as a princely administrator.

 

In the two-handed form, as the cowherd son of Nanda MahArAja, KRSNa fully exhibits His opulence, form, beauty, wealth, attractiveness and pastimes. Indeed, in some of the VaiSNava literatures it is found that sometimes, in His form as VAsudeva, He becomes attracted to the form of Govinda in VRndAvana. Thus as VAsudeva He sometimes desires to enjoy as the cowherd boy Govinda does, although the Govinda form and the VAsudeva form are one and the same. In this regard, there is a passage in the Fourth Chapter of the Lalita-mAdhava (4.19), in which KRSNa addresses Uddhava as follows: "My dear friend, the form of Govinda, the cowherd boy, attracts Me. Indeed, I wish to be like the damsels of Vraja, who are also attracted by this form of Govinda." Similarly, in the Eighth Chapter, KRSNa says: "O how wonderful it is! Who is this person? After seeing Him, I am so attracted that I am now desiring to embrace Him just like RAdhikA."

 

There are also forms of KRSNa which are a little different, and these are called tadekAtma-rUpa forms. These may be further divided into the vilAsa and svAMza forms, which in turn have many different features and can be divided into prAbhava and vaibhava forms. As far as the vilAsa forms are concerned, there are innumerable prAbhava-vilAsas by which KRSNa expands Himself as VAsudeva, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna, and Aniruddha. Sometimes the Lord thinks of Himself as a cowherd boy, and sometimes He thinks of Himself as the son of Vasudeva, a kSatriya prince, and this "thinking" of KRSNa is called His "pastimes." Actually He is in the same form in His vaibhava-prakAza and prAbhava-vilAsa, but He appears differently as BalarAma and KRSNa. His expansions as VAsudeva, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha are in the original catur-vyUha, or four-handed forms.

 

There are innumerable four-handed manifestations in different planets and different places, and they are manifested in DvArakA and MathurA eternally. From the four principal four-handed forms (VAsudeva, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha) there are manifest the principal twenty-four forms called vaibhava-vilAsa, and they are named differently according to the placement of different symbols (conch, mace, lotus and disc) in their hands. The four principal manifestations of KRSNa are found in each planet in the spiritual sky, and these planets are called NArAyaNaloka or VaikuNThaloka. In the VaikuNThaloka He is manifested in the four-handed form of NArAyaNa. From each NArAyaNa the forms of VAsudeva, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha are manifested. Thus NArAyaNa is the center, and the four forms of VAsudeva, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha surround the NArAyaNa form. Each of these four forms again expand into three, and these all have different names, beginning with Kezava. These forms are twelve in all, and they are known by different names according to the placement of symbols in their hands.

 

As far as the VAsudeva form is concerned, the three expansions manifested from Him are Kezava, NArAyaNa and MAdhava. The three forms of SaGkarSaNa are known as Govinda, ViSNu and SrI MadhusUdana. (It should be noted, however, that this Govinda form is not the same Govinda form that is manifested in VRndAvana as the son of Nanda MahArAja.) Similarly, Pradyumna is also divided into three forms known as Trivikrama, VAmana and SrIdhara; and the three forms of Aniruddha are known as HRSIkeza, PadmanAbha and DAmodara.

 

Unlimited Forms of Godhead

 

According to the VaiSNava almanac, the twelve months of the year are named according to the twelve VaikuNTha forms of Lord KRSNa, and these forms are known as the predominating Deities for the twelve months. This calendar begins with the month of MArgazIrsa, which is equivalent to late October and early November. The remainder of November is known by VaiSNavas as Kezava. December is called NArAyaNa, January is called MAdhava, February is Govinda, March is ViSNu, April SrI MadhusUdana, May Trivikrama, June VAmana, July SrIdhara, August HRSIkeza, September PadmanAbha, and early October is known as DAmodara. (The name DAmodara was given to KRSNa when He was bound by ropes by His mother, but the DAmodara form in the month of October is a different manifestation). Just as the months of the year are known according to the twelve different names of the Supreme Lord, the VaiSNava community marks twelve parts of the body according to these names. For instance, the tilaka mark on the forehead is called Kezava, and on the stomach, breast and arms the other names are also given. These are the same names as those given the months.

 

The four forms (VAsudeva, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha) are also expanded in the vilAsa-mUrti. These are eight in number, and their names are PuruSottama, Acyuta, NRsiMha, JanArdana, Hari, KRSNa, AdhokSaja and Upendra. Out of these eight, AdhokSaja and PuruSottama are the vilAsa forms of VAsudeva. Similarly, Upendra and Acyuta are the forms of SaGkarSaNa; NRsiMha and JanArdana are the forms of Pradyumna, and Hari and KRSNa are the vilAsa forms of Aniruddha. (This KRSNa is different from the original KRSNa.)

 

These twenty-four forms are known as the vilAsa manifestation of the prAbhava (four-handed) form, and they are named differently according to the position of the symbolic representations (mace, disc, lotus flower and conch shell). Out of these twenty-four forms there are vilAsa and vaibhava forms. Names mentioned herein, such as Pradyumna, Trivikrama, VAmana, Hari and KRSNa, are also different in features. Then, coming to the prAbhava-vilAsa of KRSNa (including VAsudeva, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha), there are a total of twenty further variations. All of these have VaikuNTha planets in the spiritual sky and are situated in eight different directions. Although each of them is eternally in the spiritual sky, some of them are nonetheless manifest in the material world also.

 

In the spiritual sky all the planets dominated by the NArAyaNa feature are eternal. The topmost planet in the spiritual sky is called KRSNaloka and is divided into three different portions: Gokula, MathurA and DvArakA. In the MathurA portion, the form of Kezava is always situated. He is also represented on this earthly planet. In MathurA, India, the Kezava mUrti is worshiped, and similarly there is a PuruSottama form in JagannAtha PurI in Orissa. In AnandAraNya there is the form of ViSNu, and in MAyApur, the birthplace of Lord Caitanya, there is the form of Hari. Many other forms are also situated in various places on the earth. Not only in this universe but in all other universes as well the forms of KRSNa are distributed everywhere. It is indicated that this earth is divided into seven islands, which are the seven continents, and it is understood that on each and every island there are similar forms, but at the present moment these are found only in India. Although from Vedic literatures we can understand that there are forms in other parts of the world, at present there is no information of their location.

 

The different forms of KRSNa are distributed throughout the universe to give pleasure to the devotees. It is not that devotees are born only in India. There are devotees in all parts of the world, but they have simply forgotten their identity. These forms incarnate not only to give pleasure to the devotee but to reestablish devotional service and perform other activities which vitally concern the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Some of these forms are incarnations mentioned in the scriptures, such as the ViSNu incarnation, Trivikrama incarnation, NRsiMha incarnation and VAmana incarnation.

 

In the SiddhArtha-saMhitA, there is a description of the twenty-four forms of ViSNu, and these forms are named according to the position of the symbolic representations in Their four hands. When one describes the positions of objects in the hands of the ViSNu mUrti, one should begin with the lower right hand then move to the upper right hand, upper left hand and, finally, to the lower left hand. In this way, VAsudeva may be described as being represented by mace, conch shell, disc and lotus flower. SaGkarSaNa is represented by mace, conch shell, lotus flower and disc. Similarly, Pradyumna is represented by disc, conch shell, mace and lotus flower. Aniruddha is represented by disc, mace, conch shell and lotus flower. In the spiritual sky the representations of NArAyaNa are twenty in number and are described as follows: SrI Kezava (flower, conch shell, disc, mace), NArAyaNa (conch, flower, mace and disc), SrI MAdhava (mace, disc, conch and flower), SrI Govinda (disc, mace, flower and conch), ViSNu-mUrti (mace, flower, conch and disc), MadhusUdana (disc, conch, flower and mace), Trivikrama (flower, mace, disc and shell), SrI VAmana (conch, disc, mace and flower), SrIdhara (flower, disc, mace and shell), HRSIkeza (mace, disc, flower and conch), PadmanAbha (shell, flower, disc and mace), DAmodara (flower, disc, mace and shell), PuruSottama (disc, flower, shell and mace), Acyuta (mace, flower, disc and shell), NRsiMha (disc, flower, mace and shell), JanArdana (flower, disc, shell and mace), SrI Hari (shell, disc, flower and mace), SrI KRSNa (shell, mace, flower and disc), AdhokSaja (flower, mace, shell and disc), and Upendra (shell, mace, disc and flower).

 

According to the HayazIrSa-paJcarAtra, there are sixteen forms, and these forms are named differently according to the situations of the disc and mace. The conclusion is that the Supreme Original Personality of Godhead is KRSNa. He is called lIlA-puruSottama, and He resides principally in VRndAvana as the son of Nanda. It is also learned from the HayazIrSa-paJcarAtra that there are nine forms protecting each of the two PurIs known as the MathurA PurI and the DvArakA PurI: VAsudeva, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha protect one, and NArAyaNa, NRsiMha, HayagrIva, VarAha and BrahmA--protect the other. These are different manifestations of the prakAza and vilAsa forms of Lord KRSNa.

 

Lord Caitanya also informs SanAtana GosvAmI that there are different forms of svAMza as well, and these are divided into the SaGkarSaNa division and the incarnation division. From the first division come the three puruSa-avatAras--the KAraNodakazAyI ViSNu, GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu and KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu--and from the other division come the lIlA-avatAras, such as the Lord's incarnations as a fish, tortoise, etc.

 

There are six kinds of incarnations: (1) the puruSa-avatAra, (2) the lIlA-avatAra, (3) the guNa-avatAra, (4) the manvantara-avatAra, (5) the yuga-avatAra, and (6) the zaktyAveza-avatAra. Out of the six vilAsa manifestations of KRSNa, there are two divisions based on His age, and these are called bAlya and paugaNDa. As the son of Nanda MahArAja, KRSNa in His original form enjoys both of these childhood aspects--namely bAlya and paugaNDa.

 

It is thus safe to conclude that there is no end to the expansions and incarnations of KRSNa. Lord Caitanya explains some of them to SanAtana just to give him an idea of how the Lord expands and enjoys. These conclusions are also confirmed in SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.3.26). There it is said that there is no limit to the incarnations of the Supreme Lord, just as there is no limit to the waves of the ocean.

 

KRSNa first incarnates as the three puruSa-avatAras, namely the MahA-ViSNu or KAraNodakazAyI avatAra, the GarbhodakazAyI avatAra and the KSIrodakazAyI avatAra. This is confirmed in the SAtvata-tantra. KRSNa's energies can also be divided into three: His energy of thinking feeling and acting. When He exhibits His thinking energy, He is the Supreme Lord; when He exhibits His feeling energy, He is Lord VAsudeva; when He exhibits His acting energy, He is SaGkarSaNa BalarAma. Without His thinking, feeling and acting, there would be no possibility of creation. Although there is no creation in the spiritual world--for there the planets are beginningless--there is creation in the material world. In either case, however, both the spiritual and material worlds are manifestations of the energy of acting, in which KRSNa acts in the form of SaGkarSaNa and BalarAma.

 

The spiritual world of the VaikuNTha planets and KRSNaloka, the supreme planet, is situated in His energy of thinking. Although there is no creation in the spiritual world, which is eternal, it is still to be understood that the VaikuNTha planets depend on the thinking energy of the Supreme Lord. This thinking energy is described in Brahma-saMhitA (5.2), where it is said that the supreme abode, known as Goloka, is manifested like a lotus flower with hundreds of petals. Everything there is manifested by Ananta, the BalarAma or SaGkarSaNa form. The material cosmic manifestation and its different universes are manifest through mAyA, or material energy. However, one should not think that material nature or material energy is the cause of this cosmic manifestation. Rather, it is caused by the Supreme Lord, who uses His different expansions through material nature. In other words, there is no possibility of any creation without the superintendence of the Supreme Lord. The form by which the energy of material nature works to bring about creation is called the SaGkarSaNa form, and it is understood that this cosmic manifestation is created under the superintendence of the Supreme Lord.

 

In SrImad-BhAgavatam (10.46.31) it is said that BalarAma and KRSNa are the origin of all living entities and that these two personalities enter into everything. A list of incarnations is given in SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.3), and they are as follows: (1) KumAras, (2) NArada, (3) VarAha, (4) Matsya, (5) YajJa, (6) Nara-nArAyaNa, (7) KArdami Kapila, (8) DattAtreya, (9) HayazIrSa, (10) HaMsa, (1 1) Dhruvapriya or PRznigarbha, (12) RSabha, (13) PRthu, (14) NRsiMha, (15) KUrma, (16) Dhanvantari, (17) MohinI, (18) VAmana, (19) BhArgava (ParazurAma), (20) RAghavendra, (21) VyAsa, (22) PralambAri BalarAma, (23) KRSNa, (24) Buddha (25) Kalki. Because almost all of these twenty-five lIlA-avatAras appear in one day of BrahmA, which is called a kalpa, they are sometimes called kalpa-avatAras. Out of these, the incarnation of HaMsa and MohinI are not permanent, but Kapila, DattAtreya, RSabha, Dhanvantari and VyAsa are five eternal forms, and they are more celebrated. The incarnations of the tortoise KUrma, the fish Matsya, Nara-nArAyaNa, VarAha, HayazIrSa, PRznigarbha, and BalarAma are considered to be incarnations of vaibhava. Similarly, there are three guNa-avatAras, or incarnations of the qualitative modes of nature, and these are BrahmA, ViSNu and Siva.

 

Of the manvantara-avatAras, there are fourteen: (1) YajJa, (2) Vibhu, (3) Satyasena, (4) Hari, (5) VaikuNTha, (6) Ajita, (7) VAmana, (8) SArvabhauma, (9) RSabha, (10) ViSvaksena, (11) Dharmasetu, (12) SudhAmA, (13) Yogezvara, (14) BRhadbhAnu. Out of these fourteen manvantara-avatAras, YajJa and VAmana are also lIlA-avatAras, and the rest are manvantara-avatAras. These fourteen manvantara-avatAras are also known as vaibhava-avatAras.

 

The four yuga-avatAras are also described in SrImad-BhAgavatam. In the Satya-yuga, the incarnation of God is white; in the TretA-yuga He is red; in the DvApara-yuga, He is blackish; and in the Kali-yuga He is also blackish, but sometimes, in a special Kali-yuga, His color is yellowish (as in the case of Caitanya MahAprabhu). As far as the zaktyAveza-avatAras are concerned, they include Kapila and RSabha, Ananta, BrahmA (sometimes the Lord Himself becomes BrahmA), CatuHsana (the incarnation of knowledge), NArada (the incarnation of devotional service), King PRthu (the incarnation of administrative power), and ParazurAma (the incarnation who subdues evil principles).

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[Guest guest]

Narayana is parabrahman. Krishna, Rama etc. are his incarnations. All forms of Narayana are equal - one and the same. Such is the definite conclusion of the vedas. There is no authority superior to the vedas.

 

The following is the evidence. It is taken from the yajur-veda itself.(no more quarrel I guess, none here would deny the yajur veda)

 

 

Narayana suktam

 

sahasraa sersham devam viswaasham viswaasambhuvam

 

viswam naaraayanam devamaksharam pramam padam

 

This universe is the Eternal Being (Narayana), the imperishable, the supreme, the goal, multi-headed and multi-eyed (i.e., omnipresent and omniscient), the resplendent, the source of delight for he whole universe.

 

 

viswataah paramam nityam viswam naaraayanam hariim

 

viswaamevedam purushaastadvisvampajeevati

 

This universe is the Supreme Being (Purusha) alone; hence it subsists on That, the Eternal which transcends it (in every way), -the omnipresent Absolute which destroys all sins.

 

patim viswasyatmeswaram saswatam sivamachyutam

 

naaraayanam mahaajneyam viswaatmanam paraayanam

 

The protector of the universe, the Lord of all Souls (or Lord over Self), the perpetual, the auspicious, the indestructible, the Goal of all creation, the Supreme object worthy of being known, the Soul of all beings, the Refuge unfailing (is He).

 

 

naaraayanaa paro jyotiratma naaraayanaa paraah

 

naaraayanaa param brahmaa tattwam naaraayanaah paraah

 

naaraayanaa paro dhyaatah dhyaanam naaraayanah paraah

 

The Lord Narayana is the Supreme Absolute; Narayana is the Supreme Reality; Narayana is the Supreme Light; Narayana is the Supreme Self; Narayana is the Supreme Meditator; Narayana is the Supreme Meditation.

 

yachca kinchit jagat sarvam drshyate srooyatepi va

 

antar bahisca tatsvaram vyapya naaraayanaah sthitah

 

Whatever all this universe is, -seen or heard of, -pervading all this from inside and outside alike, stands supreme the Eternal Divine Being (Narayana).

 

 

anantamavyayam kavim samudrentam viswaa sambhuvam

 

padma kosaa praateeksam hrdayam capyadho mukham

 

He is the Limitless, Imperishable, Omniscient, residing in the ocean of he heart, the Cause of the happiness of the universe, the Supreme end of all striving, (manifesting Himself) in the ether of the heart which is comparable to an inverted bud of the lotus flower.

 

adho nishtya vitastyante nabhyaamupari tishtati

 

jwaalamalaa kulaam bhaati vishwasyayatanam mahat

 

Below the Adams apple, at a distance of a span, and above the navel (i.e., the heart which is the relative seat of the manifestation of Pure Consciousness in the human being), effulges the Great Abode of the universe, as if adorned with garlands of flames.

 

 

santaatam silaabhistu lambaatyaa kosaannibham

 

tasyante sushiram sookshman tasmin sarvam pratishtam

 

Surrounded on all sides by nerve-currents (or arteries), suspends the lotus-bud of the heart in an inverted position. It is in a subtle space (a narrow aperture, the Sushumna-Nadi), and therein is to be found the Substratum of all things.

 

tasyaa madhye mahaanagnir vishwachir visvato mukha

 

sograabhugvibhajan tishthannahaaraa maajaraah kaavih

 

In that space within the heart resides the Great Flaming Fire, undecaying, all-knowing, with tongues spread out in all directions, with faces turned everywhere, consuming food presented before it, and assimilating it unto itself.

 

 

triyaa goordhwaa masdhassayee rasmayaatasyaa santataa

 

santapayati swam deha mapadatalaamaastaagah

 

tasyaa madhye vahnisikha aaneeyordhwaa vyaavasthithaah

 

His rays, spreading all around, side ways as well as above and below, warm up the whole body from head to foot. In the center of That (Flame) abides the Tongue of Fire as the topmost of all subtle things. (Note: Due to the attachments and entanglements of the Jiva in worldly enjoyment and suffering, the Consciousness is enshrouded in potential as well as expressed objectivity, and hence it appears like a tiny streak of flame within the dark clouds of ignorance. But when the Jiva rises above worldliness the Consciousness is realised as he Infinite.)

 

neelaatoyaada madhyaasthad vidyullekhavaa bhaswaraa

 

neevaaraasooka vattanvee peeta bhaswatyanoopama

 

Brilliant like a streak of lightning set in the midst of the blue rain-bearing clouds, slender like the awn of a paddy grain, yellow (like gold) in colour, in subtlety comparable to the minute atom, (this Tongue of Fire) grows splendid.

 

 

tasyaa sikhayaa madhye paramaatmaa vyavasthithaah

 

saa brahmaa saa sivaah saa hariih sendraah soksharaah paramah swarat

 

In the Middle of That Flame, the Supreme Self dwells. This (Self) is Brahma (the Creator), Siva (the Destroyer), Hari (the Protector), Indra (the Ruler), the Imperishable, the Absolute, the Autonomous Being. Prostrations again and again to the Omni-Formed Being, the Truth, the Law, the Supreme Absolute, the Purusha of blue-decked yellow hue, the Centralised-Force, Power, the All-Seeing One.

 

ritam satyam param brahmaa purusham krishnaa pingalam

 

oordhwaaretam viroopaaksham viswaroopaayaa vai namo namah

 

Prostrations again and again to the Omni-Formed Being, the Truth, the Law, the Supreme Absolute, the Purusha of blue-decked yellow hue, the Centralised-Force, Power, the All-Seeing One.

 

 

naaraayanayaa vidhmahe

 

vasudevaayaa dheemahi

 

tanno vishnuh prachodayaat

 

We commune ourselves with Narayana, and meditate on Vasudeva, may that Vishnu direct us (to the Great Goal).

 

vishnornukam veeryaani pravocham yaah paarthivaani raajaamsi yo

 

askabhayaaduttaram sadhastham vichaakramanas tredhorugayo vishnuh

 

raaratamasi vishnuh syooraasi vishnuh dhruvamsi vaishnavaamasi vishnave tva

 

Which valor and deed of the all-pervading Vishnu may I glorify? He has enveloped the earth and he heaven even upto the minutest dust of creation. Vishnu supports the abode of gods, preventing it from being shaken from its position. He takes three strides (which may mean the three strides which Vishnu took in His incarnation as Vamana or the three strides which the sun is supposed to take in the sky during the day, or he form Vishnu is supposed to take as Agni, Vayu and Surya) as the most gloriously euoligised one. O Thou, Instrument of Yajna, who are the front and rear of Vishnu’s form as Yajna, Thou who art its mouth and its connection. Thou art the firm support. Thou art verily Vishnu. I prostrate myself before Thee.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

These verses speak of Narayana in relation to the world. No one will deny that Narayana is the source of the entire existence. They do not establish Narayana's position in relation to Lord Krishna.

 

Identical verses can be found in the Gita proclaiming Krishna to be the Para-brahma, the source of everything, the foundation of all existence, etc.

[Guest guest]

IN REPLY TO

_________

Identical verses can be found in the Gita proclaiming Krishna to be the Para-brahma, the source of everything, the foundation of all existence, etc.

_________

 

That should be an indication enough that Narayana and Krishna are one and the same. Not only that, the BG also says that Krishna is the Purusha. And the yajurveda calls Narayana as the Purusha. It is all very simple, Krishna is an incarnation of Narayana just as Rama.

 

All incarnations are equal. Like in the Rig Veda, it is said

 

Ekam ., viprah bahuda vadanti.(Truth is one, the wise call it by many names.)

 

IN REPLY TO

__________

 

They do not establish Narayana's position in relation to Lord Krishna.

__________

 

Really!!! Krishna is an incarnation of Narayana. Who else can be called parabrahma if it is not Narayana? Who else can be called Purusha if it is not Narayana?

 

Remember, all forms are His forms and they are all equal. Such is the definite conclusion of the vedas. (You cant go against the vedas)

 

In case you still have a doubt, know that all major traditions say that Krishna is an incarnation of Narayana.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

That should be an indication enough that Narayana and Krishna are one and the same.

 

 

You seem to have a misconception regarding the Gaudiya's siddhanta. Gaudiya Vaishnava's consider Narayana and Krishna to be one and the same. You can refer to the chapter "His Forms are One and the Same" in the book "Teachings of Lord Chaitanya", published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. The book can be downloaded for free at hare-krishna.org.

 

 

Really!!! Krishna is an incarnation of Narayana. Who else can be called parabrahma if it is not Narayana? Who else can be called Purusha if it is not Narayana?

 

 

Please refer the above point regarding your misunderstanding.

 

 

In case you still have a doubt, know that all major traditions say that Krishna is an incarnation of Narayana.

 

 

This is only true of South Indian traditions. This has already been discussed in other threads, so I won't get into it here.

[Guest guest]

The fact that Krishna is an incarnation of Narayana, is found in the Mahabharatha and the Bhagavatam. Your wish if you want to deny them.

 

In Reply to

 

"This is only true of South Indian traditions"

 

 

No. That is incorrect. The Mahabharata occurs in both north and south Indian traditions.

[Narayanidd]

My dear spirit souls,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Rupa Goswami states in Bhakti-rasamtra-sindhu:

 

...the transcendental qualities of the Lord as follows: 1)beautiful features of the entire body; 2)marked with all auspicious characteristics;3)extremely pleasing;4) effulgent;5) strong;6) ever youthful;7) wonderful linguist;8) truthful;9) talks pleasingly;10) fluent;11) highly learned;12) highly intelligent;13) a genius;13) artistic;15) extremly clever;16) expert;17) grateful;18) firmly determined;19) an expert judge of time and circumstances;20) sees and speaks on the authority of Vedas, or scriptures;21) pure;22) self-controlled; 23) steadfast;24) forbearing;25) forgiving;26) grave;27) self-satisfied;28) possessing equilibrium;29) magnanimous;30) religious;31) heroic;32) compassionate;33) respectful;34) gentle;35)liberal;36) shy;37) the protector of surrendered souls;38) happy;39) the well-wisher of devotees;40) controlled by love;41) all-auspicious;42) most powerful;43) all-famous;44) popular;45) partial to devotees;46) very attractive to all women;47) all-worshipable;48) all-opulent;49)all-honorable;50)the supreme controller. The Supreme Personality of Godhead has all these fifty transcendental qualities in fullness as deep as the ocean. In other words, the extent of His qualities is inconceivable.

 

Besides all of the above mentioned fifty qualities, Lord Krsna possesses five more, which are sometimes pertially manifested in the persons of Lord Brahma and Lord Siva. These transcendental qualities are as follows: 51) changeless;52) all-cognizant53) ever fresh;54) sac-cid-ananda (possessing an eternal blissful spiritual body);55) possessing all mystic perfections.

 

Krsna also possesses five other qualities, which are manifest in the body of Narayana, and they are listed as follows: 56) He has inconceivable potency;57) Uncountable universes generate from His body;58) He is the original source of all incarnations. 59) He is the giver of salvation to the enemies whom He kills. 60) He is the attractor of liberated souls. All these transcendental qualities are manifest wonderfully in the personal feature of Lord Krsna.

 

Besides these sixty transcendental qualities, KRSNA HAS FOUR MORE WHICH ARE NOT MANIFEST EVEN IN THE NARAYANA FORM OF GODHEAD, what to speak ofthe demigods or living entities. They are as follows. 61) He is the performer of wonderful varieties of pastimes (especially His childhood pastimes). 62) He is surrounded by devotees endowed with wonderful love of Godhead. 63) He can attract all living entities all over the universes by playing on His flute. 64) He has a wonderful excellence of beauty which cannot be rivaled anywhere in creation.

 

Lord Krsna is the source.

 

isvarah paramah krsnah

sac-cid-ananda vigraha

anadir adir govinda

sarva karana karanam

 

Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin. He is the prime cause of all causes.

 

Your servant,

Narayani d.d.

[Guest guest]

Sriman Narayana has inconceivable qualities. It has already been demonstrated by SD dasa that Lord Narayana is the source of everything, including Krishna avatara. All qualities are in Lord Narayana, and they manifest in his Krishna form and other forms to the souls in the material world.

 

That Lord Narayana is the source and goal of all souls is not a new idea. It is in the Veda itself. To say that Lord Krishna is superior to Lord Narayana is ignorance. There is no difference, except that the latter is the source of the former.

[gHari]

If Lord Narayana is the source of Krsna, then are we to assume that Lord Krsna who incarnates in Bharata is the only Krsna, and that He actually does not exist (as the two-handed Krsna) in the spiritual world?

[Narayanidd]

My dear souls,

This is an endless discussion in which neither side will yeild. Let us instead focus on developing pure love for the Lord whether worshiped as Krsna or Narayana.

 

your servant,

Narayani d.d.

[dhaa]

 

The authorities are Sankara, Ramanuja and Madhva acaryas...

 

 

 

jagadgurus nimbarka & vallabh?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

They both accept Krishna as the Supreme Lord, and thus the previous poster chose to ignore them.

[dhaa]

http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/apr2000/0107.html

 

"...puraaNeShu tu sarveShu shriimadbhaagavata.m param |

yatra pratipada.m kR^iShNo giiyate bahudharShibhiH ||

 

Among all the Puraanas, Shriimad-Bhaagavatam is the best. In every line

great sages glorify Lord Krishna in various ways (padma puraaNa,

uttara-khaNDa 193.3).

 

This quote can be found in Nag Publishers' edition (and hence, also the

Venkateshwara Steam Press edition)..."

 

 

 

[dhaa]

"--

guest: In case you still have a doubt, know that all major traditions say that Krishna is an incarnation of Narayana.

--

 

jndas: This is only true of South Indian traditions. This has already been discussed in other threads, so I won't get into it here."

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dhaa

 

Like the rest, you may have problems in understanding the proposition of this discussion (due to deleted posts).

 

The proposition is - Narayana is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and not Bhagavata is the Supreme Purana.

 

I have tried to establish my proposition through the following reasons:

 

a) Using the verbal testimonies of exalted personalities from the Bhagavata purana e.g

 

Devaki, Pariksit, Akura Udhava , Suta, Gargamuni etc

 

b) Using the exegetical principle of upakrama – upasamhara., to maintain consistency in interpretation. The following texts show that Krsna is the manifestation of Sriman Narayana’s pastimes.

 

Suta uvaca

Etad vah kathitam vipra visnos caritam adhutam

Bhavadhir yad aham prsto anarnam purusocitam

 

Atra sankititah saksat sarva paap haro harih

Narayanao hrsikeso bhagavan satvatam patih

 

O learned Ones in reply to your questions about what constitutes the topic most suited to mankind, I have narrated to you this account o the excellence and pastimes of Visnu

 

This text ( Srimad Bhagavatam) is extolled Narayana , the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who erases all sins, who is the Indweller of all beings, who is the power that activates the senses of all and who is the protector (SB canto 12, Chapter 12;2-3)

 

 

Ya etad devadevasya visnoh karmani janma ca

Kirtayec sraddhaya martah sarva papih pramucyate

 

Whoever studies and recites with faith and devotion these accounts of Vishnu’s incarnations and pastimes will have all his sinful tendencies destroyed (SB, Canto 11 31:27)

 

Interpretation of

ete camsa-kalah pumsah

krsnas tu bhagavan svayam

indrari-vyakulam lokam

mrdayanti yuge yuge

 

Shown the use of the verb mrdayanti in the plural form and the need to interpret the subject as Plural.

 

c) The degree of authority of the Puranas, refer to my comments on arthavada

 

d) My authority the prasthana trayam, is in line with Sankara, Ramanuja and Madhava.

 

They have used all the valid scriptural sources including the puranas, but this is only to the extent that the puranas are correctly interpreted, and without any inconsistencies or contradictions in the doctrines derived.

 

But neo-Vedanta schools’ total dependence on the Bhagavata purana alone, with no regard to the Upanishads or Mahabharata, leads to many serious doctrinal discrepancies.

 

If you want to counter my proposition, you have to quote the Prasthana trayam. The purana, can be your sampradaya’s ultimate authority but not mine.

 

According to the Padma purana, mayavada is compared to the snake’s poison.

 

Why did Chaitanya accept the Sridhara Swami’s Bhagavata commentary in preference to Madhava’s. Sridhara swami was a mayavadi who held Sankara’s Advaita as the highest truth ?

 

If you claim either Madhava or Sankara lineage, then why are you aligning with Vallabha or Nimbarka.

 

SDdasa

[Guest guest]

Sri Narasimha Nakha-Stuti

 

Lord Narasimha is so exalted that even His nails are glorified by the Vaishnava acharyas. In the Sudarsana-sata-nama stotra of the Sri Vaishnava sampradaya, it is said that Lord Narayana's Sudarshana Chakra descended as the tusk of Varaha, the axe of Parasurama, and the nails of Narasimha. In this way, the nails of Narasimha accompany the Lord in His various avatars.

 

Sri Madhvacharya (1238-1317 AD) worships the power of Lord Narasimha's nails in his Nakha-Stuti. What follows is the Sanskrit and English translation by Madhusudana Rao, and then the Word for Word meaning.

 

Nakha-Stuti

 

1

paantvasmaanpuruhuutavairi balavaN matangamAdyat ghaTa

kumbOkshAdrivipATanAdikapaTu pratyEka vajrAyitA.h ||

 

O Sri Narasimha, who is omnipresent, may your nails protect me and others at all times. Just as a lion attacks powerful elephant groups and splits apart their heads with its nails and the vajrayudha (Indra's defense weapon) splits the highest mountains, in the similar way, the Asuras (who through the blessings of Sri Brahma, Rudra and the demigods) are like powerful exhilarating elephants who are easily killed by each of Sri Narasimha's nails which are precious and powerful.

 

2

shriimadkanTeeravAsya prathathasunakharA dAritAratiduura

pradvastha dvAnta shAnta pravitatamansA bAvitAbuuribhAgai.h ||

 

All demigods are devoted to and praying to this nail, which eliminates all bad elements in this world. They are very [devoted to] this nail as it will give all six senses of a brahman or devataas. This nail will even give complete knowledge and the gods will come out of the darkness (of ignorance). By praying to this nail, they will get peace and knowledge of all the qualities of Sri Hari.

 

3

lakshmiikAnta samantatOpi kalayaN naiveshitustEsamam

pashyAmittamavastu duuritaratOpastham rasOyasTama.h ||

 

O Sri Narasimha, who has Sri Lakshmi, there is no body equal to you. If there is any thing which is equal, it is 'astama rasa' the famous six essences. Similarly, there is nobody equal or uttama [more excellent] than you.

 

4

yadrOshakkharadakshaNEtra kuTilaprAntOpitAgnispurat

khadhyOtOpama vishpulinga basitA brahmEsha shakrOtkarA.h ||

 

There are many Brahma's, many Rudra's, many Indra's and all of these and other demigods became ashes because of your smallest vision. Your vision is like the smallest firefly [a twinkling insect which glows in night], yet it has the brightness of the sun's rays.

 

WORD FOR WORD MEANINGS

First sloka

pa.nTu - protect us

asmAn - all of us

puruhuuta - Indra

vairi - enemies like Asuras

balavat - stronger or powerful

matanga - elephants

mAdhyat - exhilirating or plump

ghata - group(s)

kummbO -frontal globe of an elephant's head

ucchAdri - highest mountains

vipATanA - breaking

AdikapaTu - highest support

pratyEka - each one

vajrAyitA.h - looks to be vajrayudha (Indra's defensive weapon)

 

Second Sloka

prathatha - omini present

shriimadkanTeeravAsya - Sri Narasimha along with Sri Lakshmi Devi

sunakaraH - your precious

dAritA - destroyed

arati - six duties of a brahman

duura pradvastaha - solved since ancient times

dvAnta - darkness of poor knowledge or ag^nyana

shaAnta - One who is devoted to Sri Vishnu

pravitita - One who knows qualities of Sri vishnu

manasa - obliged or sensitive

bhavitaH - prayed by

bhuribhagai - Brahma and other devataas who are all devoted devataas

 

Sloka Three

lakshmiikAnta - One who has Sri Lakshmi, Sri Narasimha,

samantata - everywhere

kalayaN opi - in search of

eshita - one who has complete knowledge

tE - like you

samam - no equal

pashyAmi naiv - I cannot find or I cannot see

yah - which is

uttamavastu - there is nothing which is equal or greater than door

ataratah - at any distance

appastam - nothing I could find or there is nothing to find.

asTama rasaH - even astama rasa also; who is called astamarasa

 

Sloka Four

yad - whose

rOksha - wilderness

utkara - glowing rays

daksha - capable of burning this world or brahmanda

NEtra - eyes

kuTila - hapazard or curved

prAnt - from the end

Opita - wake up

Agni - fire

spurat - glowing or brighness

khadhyOtOpama - Though it look to be a small like twinkling insect (smallesh

insect which twinkles at night times) but glowing like sun

vishpulinga - sparks

basita - ashes

brahma - many Brahma's of previous kalpa

Esha - many rudras

shakra - many Indra's

OtkarA.h - groups

 

(Note: The English translation as it appears here has been partially edited)

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

Actually there are two guests involved in this discussion. The other guest has presented his/her point very well. To add to that -

 

IN REPLY TO

_______

 

The authorities are Sankara, Ramanuja and Madhva acaryas...

 

--

jagadgurus nimbarka & vallabh?

_______

 

It is not just a question of traditions in the first place. Since everyone here accepts that both Narayana and Krishna are the same, the rest is to say who is an incarnation of who. It is well known from the Bhagavatam and Mahabharata that Krishna is an incarnation of Narayana. It is just that Narayana manifested himself as Krishna and came down to earth. The Krishna avatar is similar to the Rama avatar. This does not mean that Krishna does not exist in the spiritual world. Since Narayana has infinite forms and qualities, Narayana himself exists as Krishna, as Narayana is none other than Krishna.

 

He who sees Krishna as different from Narayana knows not. Saying that Krishna has some qualities which Narayana does not possess is strange as Narayana himself is Krishna. And also, since the Yajur Veda says that Narayana is parabrahman, there is no quality of Krishna that Narayana cannot possess, because Krishna is also called as parabrahman in the bhagavad gita.

 

The Visva roopam of Krishna is nothing but a symbolic expression of the infinite qualities that Narayana possesses.

[Guest guest]

Dear Co-Guest,

 

Your post was excellent.

 

IN REPLY TO_______

But neo-Vedanta schools’ total dependence on the Bhagavata purana alone, with no regard to the Upanishads or Mahabharata, leads to many serious doctrinal discrepancies.

_________

 

Exactly true. The vedas and upanishads are the ultimate authority. Even the Bhagavad Gita MUST be interpreted in harmony with them.

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

He who sees Krishna as different from Narayana knows not. Saying that Krishna has some qualities which Narayana does not possess is strange as Narayana himself is Krishna.

 

 

Narayana and Krishna, being the same Supreme Person, possess the same transcendental qualities. It is only in the Krishna aspect that He chooses to manifest certain unique qualities to His devotees due to their particular nature of attraction to Him. Vishnu does not perform rasa-lila with the Gopis, but Krishna does. This is a unique quality of Krishna which is not manifested by Narayana. In this way, the Gaudiya's have explained the unique position of Krishna as "possessing" certain qualities which Narayana apparently doesn't possess, though in reality He is simply not manifesting these qualities due to the bhava of His devotees.

[dhaa]

 

...I have tried to establish my proposition through the following reasons:

 

a) Using the verbal testimonies of exalted personalities from the Bhagavata purana e.g

 

Devaki, Pariksit, Akura Udhava , Suta, Gargamuni etc

 

b) Using the exegetical principle of upakrama – upasamhara., to maintain consistency in interpretation...

 

 

i would imagine if "the verbal testimonies of exalted personalities from the Bhagavata purana e.g Devaki, Pariksit, Akura Udhava , Suta, Gargamuni etc" are properly represented and if "the exegetical principle of upakrama – upasamhara" is properly applied, i would imagine that the same interpretation of bhagavata as padma purana's would be found, that being krsna is the subject matter of bhagavata

 

 

Padma Purana Uttara Khanda 193.3

 

puranesu tu sarvesu srimad bhagavatam param

yatra prati-padam krsno giyate bahudharsibhih

 

Of all the puranas, the Bhagavata is the greatest. <font color="brown"> In every line the sages glorify Sri Krsna in various ways </font color>

 

 

Padma Purana Uttara Khanda 198.30

 

srimadbhagavatakhyo'yam pratyaksah krsna eva hi

 

Without any doubt, <font color="brown"> Srimad Bhagavatam is directly Lord Krsna

</font color>

 

 

there are of course bhagavata slokas in line with padma puranas proper interpretation of bhagavata that directly show krsna to be the subject matter (eg. 1.2.5-7, 1.7.7,12)

 

 

as the subject matter of bhagavata's every line is krsna, i would take it that when narayan, hari, visnu, hrsikesa etc are mentioned they refer to krsna who is narayan, who is hari, who is etc

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

SDdasa said:

 

ete camsa-kalah pumsah

krsnas tu bhagavan svayam

indrari-vyakulam lokam

mrdayanti yuge yuge

 

The verb mrdayanti (they protect) – is plural, the subject should be plural and an interpretation of a singular subject is not possible for this reason. Gaudiya masters conveniently interpret Krishna as a singular subject, to excuse Krsna from being a mere fragment.

 

 

Mridayanti is refering to ete caamsha-kalaah, which is plural, and thus the verb is plural. "The incarnations of the Lord come to protect the Devas." The statement in regards to Krishna, is singular, which indicates: 1) It is not refering to the other incarnations, 2) It is not connected to the verb mridayanti.

 

The verse is very clear:

 

ete caamsha-kalaah pumsah

krsnas tu bhagavan svayam

 

Pumsah is the Purusha, the form of Vishnu from whom all incarnations descend.

 

"ete" - all of these incarnations that have been discussed, are "amsha" and "kala" (expansions and pleniary portions) of the Vishnu Purusha (pumsah). Krishnas tu - "but Krishna" is Svayam Bhagavan, the original form of God, not an "amsha" or "kala". Whereas the previous list of incarnations descend from the Vishnu Purusha (pumsah), Krishna does not.

 

If this distinction between Krishna and the other Avataras was not being made, there would be no need to switch from plural to singular, nor to use the word "tu" to indicate a unique distinction.

 

 

Gaudiya masters conveniently interpret Krishna as a singular subject, to excuse Krsna from being a mere fragment.

 

 

Actually it has nothing to do with a convenient interpretation. You made a simple reading mistake and tried to base your arguments on it.

[Guest guest]

i would like to know what he thinks the difference is between Krishna and Narayana, they are one, yet have

different activities.

 

we know what Krishna does, does he know what Narayana does ?

 

what is Narayana doing ?

 

The material ,manifestation is being done, as Krishna

says ,using only a spark of his splendor.

 

so when Narayana is not maintianing and creating, what is he doing ?

 

What is the activity that Narayana engages in for his own

pleasure, as opposed to the activity he performs for

work related things ?

 

In gaudiya Vaisnavism that is the whole point of saying

govindam adi purusam, of course god is one, yet the distinction in calling Krishna "original" is for

educating the sadhaka on the inner workings of god's life.

 

Govinda is original in the sense that God's original

purpose in manifesting everything is for God's

enjoyment.

 

that original reality is displayed as Krishna lila,

the other lokas or reality's are considered

not original because they are afterthoughts to the original plan of God enjoying, they are secondary

to God, so original means that place where

God does what God originally set out to do,

enjoy as much as possible.

 

Narayana is God when doing something else, what is that ?

Educating the soul .

 

so what is his conception of Narayana as enjoyer ?

where does that come from ?

Shastra can be understood on many levels,in various ways determined by the ability of the reader,and the desire

of God, Like Krishna says in the gita, ultimately

by all the vedas He is to be known, He is the purpose

of all sacrifice, the goal of all devotion, and the

wise know this in truth, and worship him with all their hearts.

 

The upanisads the gita, and the vedanta sutra are all part of the education system created by God, they have one purpose, but teach on different levels .

 

like the school system in your country, the whole thing

is one system, the aim to educate, but what is being taught in kindergarten is of a different quality and quantity then high school, and different again in

college.

 

so the vedic system teaches one and all,according to ability, saying Narayana is God one place, and in another

place that gets fine tuning.

 

so whatever you believe, keep humble,keep the attitude of the student of the higher reality, when you think yourself the master of the higher world, when that higher reality

comes before you, you will not recognize it, thinking your level to be the highest.

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

 

Narayana and Krishna, being the same Supreme Person, possess the same transcendental qualities. It is only in the Krishna aspect that He chooses to manifest certain unique qualities to His devotees due to their particular nature of attraction to Him. Vishnu does not perform rasa-lila with the Gopis, but Krishna does. This is a unique quality of Krishna which is not manifested by Narayana. In this way, the Gaudiya's have explained the unique position of Krishna as "possessing" certain qualities which Narayana apparently doesn't possess, though in reality He is simply not manifesting these qualities due to the bhava of His devotees.

 

 

 

This is how I understood Gaudiya Vaishnavism from the begining. Lord Krishna's avatar is called Purna, as only this avatar manifests all qualities of Lord Narayana and so Lord Krishna's form is called as SVARUPA of GOD.

 

I don't understand why HKs keep misinterpreting as though Lord Krishna is greater than Lord Narayana. Such statements are blasphemous.