Krsna and Silk dress

[srivats]

Silk dress is considered to be orthodox , for all rituals of hinduism , even in marriages , at temples above all , in all tempels lord krsna and other deities were decorated with only silk cloths.

 

If Bagawat-gita imposes vegetarian life , will god allow so many butterflies to die to make a good dress ?

 

atleast nonveg eaters eat one chicken or goat , but at a time we have to kill thousands of butterfly worms to get a silk dress.

 

Is there anything in verses about this ?

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Srivats

[Enlightened]

The basic fact is this, we cannot live with out harming other organisms, for the very basis of natural stability lies in the relation ship of predator and prey. The fact is that krishna knows this. Still, people here cling to various types of misconceptions of "do not hurt other creatures by your god given body" . The fact is simple, we are not supposed to hurt other beings willfully... but when we have to we can...

 

The whole world seems to be an abode of ignorance on the wide range. Some say don't eat meat and then some give meat as an offering to Vishnu in the form of Narasimha...

 

The "supreme personality of the godhead" (fancy title isnt it) or simply Krishna said that we neither hurt nor harm anyone because we as individual souls are indestructable...

 

"avinasi tu tad viddhi

yena sarvam idam tatam

vinasam avyayasyasya

na kascit kartum arhati"- taken out of bhagavath gita /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

this translates into- which pervades the body never gets killed , because it is imperishable soul.

 

"ya enam vetti hantaram

yas cainam manyate hatam

ubhau tau na vijanito

nayam hanti na hanyate "

 

this translates into- Neither one who thinks the living entity is the slayer nor who thinks he is slayen is in knowledge, because the self never slays or is slayen.

 

Duh! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

So, the fact is, we never slay anyone nor are we slayed so why bother get into the misconception that "we are killing something when we eat... or we are not killing something when we eat..." when you eat plants you are killing them and eating them right? and when you are eating animals you are killing them and eating them right? When you are making silk you are killing silk worms and making it right? Stop getting into the misconceptions... See the truth.

 

Scientifically, even darwin says it is very important to have a relationship of predator and prey in the Origin of species, did any one read this book before? well I did.

 

the whole idea of killing and not killing is so stupid in krishna's point of view because he is not tainted by such ignorance. I wanted to tell people about this in other posts, but they were so attached to the very notion that the notion became very important in the advancement of their spiritual nature, so I stopped, and admitted it as my own ignorance out of compassion.

 

-Enlightened /images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[srivats]

 

 

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The "supreme personality of the godhead" (fancy title isnt it) or simply Krishna said that we neither hurt nor harm anyone because we as individual souls are indestructable...

-----------

 

Its there in the second chapter of gita ..

but in all purana stories depicting the glory of gita, its been said not to eat animals , and if one does he will again born as that animal or such kind.

 

Rama avatar is the one example of how a man should be, Rama lived according to all vedic verses, so he was called vedanayaga , he himself when offered fish from kuhan accepted it but didnt had it.

 

I dont believe in your idea about being non vegetarian.I heared in a vedanta that one pure rishi according to vedas should not disturb any living creature in this world, he should live in water and leaves, that too leaves that will fall from trees to the ground.

 

Madhavan Kesava Madhana Gopala !

Srivats

 

[Enlightened]

I did not mean that you can be a non vegetarian, my friend. However, i did mean that you can live by eating or not eating meat because it does not effect you in any way.

 

We are not our bodies so we are not affected by what happens to our bodies.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif every one is going to oppose me on this, however this is what krishna said to Arjuna.

 

We need to follow dharma because we get liberated from the cycle of birth and death and reach the supreme personality of the god head.

 

I never said eating meat is okay, but i did not say eating meat is not okay either,the truth about vegetarianism nor non vegetarianism is based on our level of ignorance.

 

Even when we think Logically, How did the human race survive before we ever came to the Neolithic or "The new stone age" when we established our first villages.

 

Let me ask you another question , How do we support all this population today?

 

So, we shall not kill any sort of living being, okay, then aren't you eating the live cells that the plant survives on for photosynthesis... duh!

 

ANd let me ask you one more question, can you survive eating something with no nutritional value? The leaves on plants do not have any nutritional value because they have CELLULOSE covering on their cell membranes which prevent them from giving any sort of nutritional value to the human body.

 

The other animals such as Cows, deer etc have cellulase, which digests cellulose also... so they survive, we have no cellulase... so we cannot live much longer eating leaves of plants. We have to eat fruits... well fruits are the basis of strength for seeds, so you are eating a plants ovary? then one might say "Oh my God, i am eating the ovary of a plant how terrible"

 

Get out of ignorance my friend, see the truth , you may not kill things because you can , but you can use things when you need them for basic survival. Even Krishna agrees with this...

 

/images/graemlins/grin.gif if you want the "scriptural data" that supports this view i will give you that... If you want scientific data that supports this i will give you that too. In truth we are not our bodies so we are not affected by what ever happens to them.

 

-Enlightened.

[theist]

Vegans won't use silk products. Honey either for that matter. Follow your conscience. Be careful also. I mean the person giving you Krsna may be wearing a silk dhoti. There is also the difference in offering something to Krsna and wearing a certain material for one's own false ego. Probably best left as personal choice. But still that choice should be made based on some facts.

 

Here is just a little something from PETA on the subject.

 

 

Mass Murder for Your Silk Sari

 

To produce just one hundred grams of silk, approximately 1,500 worms are killed. Some chrysalis are kept aside to allow the moths to emerge and mate.

 

Once the female moth lays eggs, she is crushed to check for diseases. If she seems diseased, her eggs are destroyed.

 

After mating, male moths are dumped into a basket and thrown out. Because of generations of inbreeding, they no longer have the ability to fly. Birds commonly pick at them from bins outside silk manufacturing centers.

 

Alternatives to Silk

There are many soft, smooth and shimmering synthetic materials that are similar to silk known as Artificial or Art Silk and China (not Chinese) Silk. Of these, rayon is of vegetable origin and nylon and polyester are petroleum products.

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Cotton seems adequate. Why does my body need to be draped in silk? Its just an animated corpse anyway.

 

 

[stonehearted]

Silk is probably widely used in ritual for several reasons, the foremost of which is that it is seen as not easily contaminated. It need not be washed every time it's worn.

 

As for the cruelty invloved, that's a natural consideration for a gentle person inclined to nonviolence. Acutally nothing in the world is cruelty free; how many cotton plants are slaughtered for your Dockers, or your khadi dhoti? How many innocent carrots have you devoured in you lifetime? Still, we need not be complacent. As theist points out, all we need to be is consistent and careful in our own lives, and reserve judgment of others. If we have reasons not to wear silk, we should know what they are and be able to discuss them with others without becomeing upset if they have a different perspective.

 

It is also possible to buy "ahimsa" silk in India. It's obtained after the moths escape from the cocoons, so the threads are not as long and the cloth has a somewhat different character.

 

Years ago one of my friends here on the Big Island got an idea for a business. (He was a sculptor by training, and he was the main artisan in the making of ISKCON

s original Pancha-Tattva Deities. Since he lived in an area of the island where many mulberry trees grew, he thought perhaps he could make some money raising silk worms. When he ran the idea by Srila Prabhupada, Prabhupada replied, "I want you to make dolls. Why do you want to become a butcher?"

[livingentity]

I am not vegan but I do not use silk products because of what I have read about the silk farms. Makes me think of the inhumane treatment of cattle.

 

Also, I do not condone the use of pearls (not that I can afford them!!)

[theist]

>>Years ago one of my friends here on the Big Island got an idea for a business. (He was a sculptor by training, and he was the main artisan in the making of ISKCON

s original Pancha-Tattva Deities. Since he lived in an area of the island where many mulberry trees grew, he thought perhaps he could make some money raising silk worms. When he ran the idea by Srila Prabhupada, Prabhupada replied, "I want you to make dolls. Why do you want to become a butcher?" <<

 

This exchange should be recorded and preserved somehow. How many of these instructional gems are we losing? Most likely no microphone was on to catch it.

 

 

 

 

[stonehearted]

theist: This exchange should be recorded and preserved somehow. How many of these instructional gems are we losing? Most likely no microphone was on to catch it.

 

Babhru: We have no doubt lost thousands of such exchanges. Many of Srila Prabhupada's personal conversations with disciples were not recorded, and rightly so. My wife, my friend Tarun Kanti, and I had a lengthy conversation with Srila Prabhupada in December 1973. Srila Prabhupad kicked out all his big shots and attendants and asked them to close the door behind them. We spoke with him for more than an hour and a half, privately, by his design. I'm sure this was not the only time he did this. He and I also spoke briefly in his car in Honolulu in 1972, and I know that many remarks he made in cars were not recorded. Also, I know that he asked that the tape recorders be turned off for question-and-answer sessions after his classes in Honolulu in 1974. I'm not convinced that he wanted every word he spoke to be recorded for posterity to be used as absolute edicts. Much of what he said to devotees (and wrote in his letters) was meant for particular persons in specific circumstances. I'm not saying I favor any wsort of secrecy; I was one of the devotees who, in 1986, edited the first edition of his letters published by the Spanish BBT. This was a revolutionary move, led by Radha-Krishna (then Swami) in defiance of the GBC, and I'm please to have been part of the effort.

[atma]

Govinda: A devotee sculptor came to visit Prabhupada in Hawaii. This devotee had helped me make some Deities, and at this time Prabhupada wanted him to make some Panca Tattva Deities. Prabhupada explained at great lenght how he wanted the deities made. After the conversation, this devotee asked Prabhupada if it was okay for his wife to kill silkworms to make silk. After he left Prabhupada said;, "These Western boys are so creative. Next they will be asking me if they can kill cows to make mridangas."

[Guest guest]

Atma where is that from?

[livingentity]

Thanks Atma!!

[atma]

I'm reading this book called,

 

MEMORIES

Anecdotes of a Modern-Day Saint

 

Transcriptions from video interviews conducted and compiled by Siddhanta das

 

To order more volumes of the book or the video series, please contact:

 

www.monsoonmedia.org or www.prabhupada.tv

 

You can write to:

 

MONSOON MEDIA

P.O.Box 1015, Culver City, CA 90232-3415,USA

 

I'll call Siddhanta tomorrow to let him know I"m posting here some parts of his book. I don't think he'll be upset. He'll get an extra gulabjamun next time I see him /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[theist]

I have heard things attributed to Prabhupada over the years but never could verify them, as I am the last link on the chain and figure they must have changed by the time i hear them.

 

I heard he once said that the Shah of Iran made Nelson Rockefeller look like a New York city taxi driver. So funny. Tarun would know if its true or not.

 

Then there was the the instance of a disciple approaching him and saying "Oh Prabhupada, I no longer feel any sex desire". Prabhupada supposedly said:"Oh? Have you seen a doctor"? LOL I don't know if they are true though.

 

 

Atma,he won't be upset. He just sold another book.

[atma]

Siddhanta is doing a great service with the memories series and you can feel how the devotees enjoy remembering Srila Prabhupada.

 

Every morning before I go to work I read a little bit and somehow when I check in the forums in the evenings is always something connected with what I read before.

 

A little nectar:

 

Hridayananda Goswami: Another time we were walking with Prabhupada in Waikiki, Hawaii. Gurukripa said,"Prabhupada, you won our hearts. Your personality is so attractive that we couldn't help but love you." Prabhupada smiled and said, "Yes, that was my trick."

[srivats]

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Get out of ignorance my friend, see the truth , you may not kill things because you can , but you can use things when you need them for basic survival. Even Krishna agrees with this...

 

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My primary intension of posting this question ( if you can read the posting and get that ) to find out if we have the chance of avoiding it why we do it ?

 

" but you can use things when you need them for basic survival"

 

That means not wearing silk dress will not make us survive.

 

Enlighten , you might have crossed ur ignorance and still near to god , but pls pls... never expect people of learning class to immediately raise to ur level.

 

Please give me (poeple like us ) some time and knowledge to come to ur level.

 

Radhey Shyam

Srivats

 

[Enlightened]

I did not mean to offend you, I was sincerely telling you my perspective after deep analysis of such notions.

 

I am sorry if I offended you in any way srivats /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

I am not at any level and I am not certainly at your level. I mean your bhakthi is enormous compared to mine, so I admire you and I love it when you post all those things about krishna and everything /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

 

 

 

 

[gHari]

Srivats, you are right, of course we can survive without silk.

 

Your compassion for the silkworms is commendable. As someone noted, the saint Srila Prabhupada also felt this compassion.

 

I never knew about silk. I had a silk tie once; hopefully it was a fake. Thanks to your presence here, I will never support silk again. There will be many substitutes.

 

Thank you.

 

gHari

[srivats]

No Enlightened

 

No problem at all, i didnt mean that way too , actually speaking i will go through many posting , but some i wont be able to understand although i am from priest family ( very orthodox ) who know little bit of sanskrit ( its jus that i will be able to grasp meaning of some slokas ).

 

because of the reason that i dont know much basics about hinduism ( guess that y i am studying kannadasan books on hinduism )

 

I will tell one thing for the user , Hinduism is a ocean and with all good things at the very deep end of it , people who are hindus , noramlly ride over it in ships and does not know the actual value of things inside it , they simply follow the rituals but donot know why thye have to do that , ( this i really dont like ).

 

Our rituals are intrepreted wrongly in many ways..Best religion since worst follewed gives bad names to whole group of people ,

 

A wrong saint will be the model for all saints, and people will think that every saint is doing something bad and ashrams are only wrong places.I have got a good anser for this in kannadhasan book.

 

Now all i am trying to do is light a candle of knowledge and try to spread the brightness to my circle of people.

 

Ever since i started taking single step towards krishna he takes 100 steps towards me..

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Srivats

 

[srivats]

Yes hari , although my family members are able to understand that we should not kill such worms to make silk cloth, but they are not able to realise that. My mom likes it very much.

 

They have been feeded like this from childhood, i normally see everyone have thier own form of happiness.

 

for someone eating in Pitza corner and going for movie is happiness. for someone wearing silk cloths , for someone being with his girlfriend...

 

If we dont do what we think is happiness we feel bad about it and we feel sad. I suppose that neutrality wont come if one is not willing to override his definitions about happiness. He has to break that agenda.

 

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Srivats

 

[Guest guest]

You are not Srivatsa Govardhana by any chance are you?

 

-enlightened

[srivats]

My full name is Srivatsan Bhattachriyaar, i suppose you mistook me for someone , but then only the masks are different all are one , one for all !

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala

Srivats

[Guest guest]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

-enlightened