honest question from a westerner

[Guest guest]

Good day mates,

 

I am new to Hinduism, but I like it a lot. It is a very interesting spiritual science and I am following it keenly. However, there is one question that keeps popping up in my mind. How come India that has given birth to lofty ideals so poor, both in matter and in spirit? How come Hindus, who brag about having the greatest culture, so lowly and gutless? It puzzles me, can a great culture give birth to cowardly children? I am asking this as a friend, I am not evaluating Indians or India. But this is an observation that comes in the minds of all westerners who practise the great Sanatana Dharma.

[Guest guest]

When you were a child and did something you knew to be wrong, your mother probably gave you consequences for that action. If your brother or sister who was younger and more innocent or ignorant, did the same thing wrong, but did not know any better, mother did not give as serious of consequences. India knows meat eating is bad, it is known that it's higly karmic. One who murders (thou shalt not kill, which includes animals), and knows better, is going to get severe reactions. That is the answer to your question.

 

That and any other karmic (bad) activity they commit when knowing better.

 

Hope this helped.

[Guest guest]

What do you mean by "cowardly" children? Lowly and gutless? Why are you juding mere children and in regard to what do you think they are cowards?

[Guest guest]

We are not these bodies so nobody is poor,rich,coward or strong.How can children of God be poor?

 

Everything is carried out by material nature alone and we mistakenly thing "they" are doing it.This does not means there is no consequences to our actions.We have free will and it's our choice either to be influenced by spirit or matter.

 

Joy

[Krishna69]

Hi..India is a united country as a single unit only for the past 150 years when we decided to send back the British people. The functional single country started only after Independence in 1947. If Indians are cowards as you have mentioned, we would not have chased away the British. So you have to take back your word. What do you consider as low and please explain rather than just giving loose words. Do yo mean to say that all men in every country are great warriors, or having great morals. The Moguls were able to conquer and rule for a long time because India was not united at those times as a single entity as of today and there were several countries or kingdom within the subcontinent ruled by several kings from state to state. The country had a common religion and cultural values in terms of morality but economically or politically it became a single entity only after independence. So the Moguls and the British looted good amount and actual production by the whole country started only after our independence. unfortunately being a tropical country by the time we got independence population was already 400 million and it further increased after that. Thats the reason the country remains economically backward. But in spite of the several invasion from Moguls to British, we still have cultural values and morality in a larger percentage of population on which aspect we are certainly richer than any nation in the western world. Family values and traditions still exists unlike in western countries, where major proportion of teen age pregnancies and casual sex are very common which I am literally observing being in a western country.

 

[srinivas]

Yeh u right we are a poor country.But it is all changing with the advent of technology all indians are seeking horizans.People from villages are moving to towns,from towns to cities and those in cities are moving abroad for better prospects.

 

Population is another problem which india seems unable to control and poverty is due to lack of a strong support structure.Unlike the west where is good health coverage and educational loans by banks.

 

India is a developing country but it is already a super power in self sufficiency.And culturally so rich with some many cultures united it can be said that india is chaotic on the surface but calm below while a country like china is calm above but chaotic below.

 

Dont worry we indians adapt very fast and we will show you that IT IS THE HUMAN SPIRIT THAT COUNTS NOT THE MATERIALISM AROUND US THAT KEEPS US HAPPY.

 

 

[shvu]

 

The summary of your position is,

 

Hindu culture is great.

Hindu people are lowly.

 

The two points contradict one another. Since culture is created by people how did lowly [sic] Hindus create an elevated culture? It is practically impossible.

 

If the culture is great, the people are equally great, which invalidates your position. If the people are lowly, the culture is also lowly and there is no difference between India and any other country. All types of people can be found in all countries.

 

Therefore, either way, your question does not make sense.

 

Cheers

 

[gHari]

Sounding more like a jihadist, posing as an opulent westerner, a recent guest wrote:<blockquote>But this is an observation that comes in the minds of all westerners who practise the great Sanatana Dharma.</blockquote>

 

 

Well, mate, this is one westerner who has never had such a ridiculous 'observation' like that enter his mind. So extending your repugnant remarks to include me is greatly resented. Offending all of Bharata is no way to garner the favor of Sri Krsna. A thief sees only the empty pockets of a sadhu.

[Guest guest]

I'm still waiting for an answer about this comment:

 

 

How come Hindus, who brag about having the greatest culture, so lowly and gutless? It puzzles me, can a great culture give birth to cowardly children? I am asking this as a friend, I am not evaluating Indians or India.

 

 

So if you are asking only as a friend and not evaluating India or Indian's, than please answer as a friend and explain why you think mere children are cowardly, or others are gutless and lowly. What is your evidence of this? Thank you.

[Guest guest]

Ignorance is a universal problem.

 

Joy

[gHari]

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.31.21:<blockquote><center>na bhajati kumanISiNAM sa ijyAM

harir adhanAtma-dhana-priyo rasa-jJaH

zruta-dhana-kula-karmaNAM madair ye

vidadhati pApam akiJcaneSu satsu

</center>

na--never; bhajati--accepts; ku-manISiNAm--of persons with a dirty heart; saH--He; ijyAm--offering; hariH--the Supreme Lord; adhana--to those who have no material possessions; Atma-dhana--simply dependent on the Lord; priyaH--who is dear; rasa-jJaH--who accepts the essence of life; zruta--education; dhana--wealth; kula--aristocracy; karmaNAm--and of fruitive activities; madaiH--by pride; ye--all those who; vidadhati--perform; pApam--disgrace; akiJcaneSu--without material possessions; satsu--unto the devotees.

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes very dear to those devotees who have no material possessions but are fully happy in possessing the devotional service of the Lord. Indeed, the Lord relishes the devotional activities of such devotees. Those who are puffed up with material education, wealth, aristocracy and fruitive activity are very proud of possessing material things, and they often deride the devotees. Even if such people offer the Lord worship, the Lord never accepts them.

 

PURPORT

The Supreme Personality of Godhead is dependent on His pure devotees. He does not even accept the offerings of those who are not devotees. A pure devotee is one who feels He does not possess anything material. A devotee is always happy in possessing the devotional service of the Lord. Devotees may sometimes appear materially poor, but because they are spiritually advanced and enriched, they are most dear to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such devotees are free from attachment to family, society, friendship, children and so on. They abandon affection for all these material possessions and are always happy in possessing the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord. The Supreme Personality of Godhead understands the position of His devotee. If a person derides a pure devotee, he is never recognized by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In other words, the Supreme Lord never excuses one who offends a pure devotee. There are many examples of this in history. A great mystic yogi, DurvAsA Muni, offended the great devotee AmbarISa MahArAja. The great sage DurvAsA was to be chastised by the Sudarzana cakra of the Lord. Even though the great mystic directly approached the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he was never excused. Those on the path of liberation should be very careful not to offend a pure devotee.

</blockquote>

gHari

[Guest guest]

In reply to:

-------------------------

How come Hindus, who brag about having the greatest culture, so lowly and gutless? It puzzles me, can a great culture give birth to cowardly children? I am asking this as a friend, I am not evaluating Indians or India.

--------------------

 

It is not wise to brag about the culture/dharma,

but to understand it correctly and live by it.

then only bharat nation can re-gain past glory.

 

hindus have a treasure heritge- dharma -.

but if they do not use it - live by it -

then it cannot help. the heritage actually is for all the humans. the westeners are making money out of aayurveda and yoga knowledge.

 

the nature is such that strength, power, riches, do not stay with one person or country for ever. once even 3-400 years ago india was rich. if india were poor, columbus had no reason to to think to go there. the muslim invaders and the brits looted india and made it poor and week. the current US policy towards india show they US doe not want india to become rich and strong. but no one would be able to hold india's progress. some blame goes to the indians too. now the things are changing for good.

 

besides, money and materials is not something of highest importance to the hindus. time is coming when you will see how strong and brave indians are.

 

every country has some cowards, india is not exception.

same is true for strong and braves. how strong and brave you are please? please share some examples of real life.

 

in 1963 war with pakistan, pak thought they would win becaue of US made Bradly tanks they had. find out how the brave army of india busted Bradleys.

 

if you look for reasons to change you opinion in positive direction you will find reaons to do it. just look with positie attitude.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

[Avinash]

How come India that has given birth to lofty ideals so poor, both in matter and in spirit? How come Hindus, who brag about having the greatest culture, so lowly and gutless? It puzzles me, can a great culture give birth to cowardly children?

 

I do not say that I agree with you. I do not say that I disagree with you. I can say whether I agree or disagree with you only after I have understood what you are trying to say. Could you explain what you mean by "poor both in matter and spirit", "lowly and gutless", and "cowardly children"? I think it will help if you could give some examples.

I am just trying to understand your question. That is all. As you would agree, it is not possible to answer your question properly without understanding your question.

[vsdprasad]

 

I am new to Hinduism, but I like it a lot. It is a very interesting spiritual science and I am following it keenly. However, there is one question that keeps popping up in my mind. How come India that has given birth to lofty ideals so poor, both in matter and in spirit? How come Hindus, who brag about having the greatest culture, so lowly and gutless? It puzzles me, can a great culture give birth to cowardly children? I am asking this as a friend, I am not evaluating Indians or India. But this is an observation that comes in the minds of all westerners who practise the great Sanatana Dharma.

 

 

 

There is no single reason for this unfortunate situation. Right from the start of kali yuga, the culture had been wrongly practised by many people. Take for example the varnashrama dharma that has been so corrupted much beyond its original purpose. http://krishna.org/ctfote/varnash.html

 

When the basic architecture gets spoiled, it obviously leads to break down of the social system. This reflects in all areas of the society and unsrupulous people take this to their advantage and hence the uprisings of immoral sections and the brutal history of foreign invasions.

People then don't get proper education that is appropriate to their social status & they tend to lead an unregulated life that is inappropriate to their actual status. Civilization means regulation and where there is no requlation, there is no civilization. Some illiterate people are better than so-called literate but uncivilized people. Without reverting back to the sanatana dharma principles, there wouldn't be any happiness and perfect civilization. Just imagine how many people now are happier than the people of vedic period where all sections of people led a happy life with God @ the centre. Never was there a problem of economic downturn during vedic civilization and now it can happen even with a slightest unprecedented event. Think about the plight of people including millionaires when there is an economic recession.

Most people in India are ignorant of their revealed scriptures. The youth who are ignorant of these gems are hankering for broken glasses by trying to imitate western civilization. Nevertheless, India produced so many saints who tried to help restore sanatana dharma and it shud be the duty of every person whether Indian or Non Indian to try to elevate themselves and others by following them and associating with the practitioners of Sanatana Dharma.

 

-Prasad.

[gHari]

The glory of India (a.k.a. Bharata) perhaps can be better understood by enjoying this delightful excerpt from the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Contemporary Vedic Library series book called Coming Back:<blockquote><center>KING BHARATA</center>

King Bharata was a wise and experienced mahArAja who one might have thought would rule for hundreds of years. But while in the prime of life, he renounced everything--his queen, family, and his vast empire--and went to the forest. In so doing, he was following the advice of the great sages of ancient India, who recommend that one devote the latter part of one's life to self-realization.

 

King Bharata knew that his position as a great monarch was not permanent; therefore, he did not try to keep the royal throne until death. After all, even a king's body ultimately becomes dust, ashes, or food for worms and other animals. But within the body is the imperishable soul, the real self. Through the process of yoga, the self can be awakened to its true spiritual identity. Once this occurs, the soul need not spend another term of imprisonment within a material body.

 

Understanding that the real purpose of life is to free oneself from the cycle of reincarnation, King Bharata journeyed to a sacred place of pilgrimage called Pulaha-Azrama, in the foothills of the Himalayas. There, the former king lived alone in the forest along the bank of the GaNDakI River. Instead of his royal dress, he now wore only a deerskin garment. His hair and beard grew long and matted and always appeared wet, because he bathed three times a day in the river.

 

Each morning Bharata worshiped the Supreme Lord by chanting the hymns given in the Rg Veda, and as the sun rose he recited the following mantra: "The Supreme Lord is situated in pure goodness. He illuminates the entire universe; by virtue of His different potencies He maintains all living beings desiring material enjoyment, and He bestows all benediction upon His devotees."

 

Later in the day he collected various fruits and roots, and as recommended in the Vedic scriptures, he offered these simple edibles to Lord KRSNa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and then took them for his food. Even though he had been a great king, surrounded by worldly opulence, now, by the strength of his austerities, all his desires for material enjoyment vanished. Thus he became free of the root cause of bondage in the cycle of birth and death.

 

By his constant meditation upon the Personality of Godhead, Bharata began to experience symptoms of spiritual ecstasy. His heart was like a lake filled with the water of ecstatic love, and when his mind bathed itself in that lake, tears of joy flowed from his eyes.

 

One day while Bharata was meditating near the bank of the river, a doe came there to drink. While she drank, a lion in the forest nearby roared loudly. The doe was pregnant, and as she jumped in great fear and ran from the river, a baby deer fell from her womb into the swiftly flowing waters. The doe, shivering in fright and weak from the miscarriage, entered a cave, where she soon died.

 

As the sage observed the fawn floating down the river, he felt great compassion. Bharata lifted the animal from the water and, knowing it to be motherless, brought it to his Azrama. Bodily differences are meaningless from the viewpoint of a learned transcendentalist: because Bharata was self-realized, he saw all living beings with equal vision, knowing that both the soul and the Supersoul (Supreme Lord) are present within the bodies of all. He daily fed the deer with fresh green grass and tried to make it comfortable. Soon, however, he began to develop great attachment for the deer; he lay down with it, walked with it, bathed with it, and even ate with it. When he wanted to enter the forest to collect fruits, flowers, and roots, he would take the deer with him, fearing that if he left it behind, it would be killed by dogs, jackals, or tigers. Bharata took great pleasure seeing the deer leap and frolic in the forest like a child. Sometimes he would carry the fawn on his shoulders. His heart was so filled with love for the deer that he would keep it on his lap during the day, and when he slept, the deer would rest upon his chest. He was forever petting the deer and would sometimes even kiss it. Thus his heart became bound to the deer in affection.

 

Being attached to raising the deer, Bharata gradually became neglectful of his meditation upon the Supreme Lord. He thus became distracted from the path of self-realization, which is the actual goal of human life. The Vedas remind us that the human form is obtained only after the soul undergoes millions of births in lower species of life. This material world is sometimes compared to an ocean of birth and death, and the human body is compared to a solid boat designed to cross this ocean. The Vedic scriptures and the saintly teachers, or spiritual masters, are compared to expert boatmen, and the facilities of the human body are compared to favorable breezes that help the boat ply smoothly to its desired destination. If, with all these facilities, a person does not fully utilize his life for self-realization, then he commits spiritual suicide and risks taking his next birth in an animal body.

 

However, even though Bharata was aware of these considerations, he thought to himself, "Because this deer has taken shelter of me, how can I neglect it? Even though it is disturbing my spiritual life, I cannot ignore it. To neglect a helpless person who has taken shelter of me would be a great fault."

 

One day, as Bharata was meditating, he began, as usual, to think of the deer instead of the Lord. Breaking his concentration, he glanced around to see where the deer was, and when he could not discover it, his mind became agitated, like that of a miser who has lost his money. He got up and searched the area around his Azrama, but the deer was nowhere to be found.

 

Bharata thought, "When will my deer return? Is it safe from tigers and other animals? When shall I again see it wandering in my garden, eating the soft green grasses?"

 

As the day wore on and the deer still did not return, Bharata became overwhelmed with anxiety. "Has my deer been eaten by a wolf or a dog? Has it been attacked by a herd of wild boars, or by a tiger who travels alone? The sun is now setting, and the poor animal who has trusted me since its mother died has not yet returned."

 

He remembered how the deer would play with him, touching him with the points of its soft, fuzzy horns. He remembered how he would sometimes push the deer away from him, pretending to be annoyed with it for disturbing his worship or meditation, and how it would then immediately become fearful and sit down motionless a short distance away.

 

"My deer is exactly like a little prince. Oh, when will he again return? When will he again pacify my wounded heart?"

 

Unable to restrain himself, Bharata set out after the deer, following its tiny hoofprints in the moonlight. In his madness, he began to talk to himself: "This creature was so dear to me that I feel as though I have lost my own son. Due to the burning fever of separation, I feel as if I were in the middle of a blazing forest fire. My heart is now blazing with distress."

 

While frantically searching for the lost deer along the dangerous forest paths, Bharata suddenly fell and was fatally injured. Lying there at the point of death, he saw that his deer had suddenly appeared and was sitting at his side, watching over him just like a loving son. Thus, at the moment of his death, the King's mind was focused completely on the deer. In Bhagavad-gitA we learn, "Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail."

 

 

King Bharata Becomes a Deer

 

In his next life, King Bharata entered the body of a deer. Most living entities are not able to remember their past lives, but because of the spiritual progress the King had made in his previous incarnation, he could, even though in the body of a deer, understand the cause of his taking birth in that body. He began to lament. "What a fool I was! I have fallen from the path of self-realization. I gave up my family and kingdom and went to a solitary holy place in the forest to meditate, where I always contemplated the Lord of the universe. But due to my foolishness, I let my mind become attached to--of all things--a deer. And now I have justly received such a body. No one is to blame but myself."

 

But even as a deer, Bharata, having learned a valuable lesson, was able to continue his progress in self-realization. He became detached from all material desires. He no longer cared for the succulent green grasses, nor did he give a thought to how long his antlers would grow. Similarly, he gave up the company of all deer, male and female alike, leaving his mother in the KAlaJjara Mountains, where he had been born. He returned to Pulaha-Azrama, the very place where he had practiced meditation in his previous life. But this time he was careful never to forget the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Staying near the hermitages of the great saints and sages, and avoiding all contact with materialists, he lived very simply, eating only hard, dry leaves. When the time of death came and Bharata was leaving the body of the deer, he loudly uttered the following prayer: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the source of all knowledge, the controller of the entire creation, and the Supersoul within the heart of every living being. He is beautiful and attractive. I am quitting this body offering obeisances unto Him and hoping that I may perpetually engage in His transcendental loving service."

 

 

The Life of JaDa Bharata

 

In his next life, King Bharata took birth in the family of a pure, saintly brAhmaNa priest and was known as JaDa Bharata. By the Lord's mercy, he could again remember his past lives. In Bhagavad-gItA Lord KRSNa says, "From Me come remembrance, knowledge, and forgetfulness." As he grew up, JaDa Bharata became very much afraid of his friends and relatives, because they were very materialistic and not at all interested in making spiritual progress. The boy was in constant anxiety, for he feared that by their influence, he would again fall down into animal life. Therefore, although he was very intelligent, he behaved just like a madman. He pretended to be dull, blind, and deaf, so that mundane people would not try to talk to him. But within himself, he was always thinking of the Lord and chanting His glories, which alone can save one from repeated birth and death.

 

JaDa Bharata's father was filled with affection for his son, and in his heart he hoped that JaDa Bharata would someday become a learned scholar. Therefore he tried to teach him the intricacies of Vedic knowledge. But JaDa Bharata purposely behaved like a fool so that his father would abandon his attempts to instruct him. If his father told him to do something, he would do exactly the opposite. Nevertheless, JaDa Bharata's father, until the time of his death, always tried to instruct the boy.

 

JaDa Bharata's nine stepbrothers considered him dull and brainless, and when their father died, they abandoned all attempts to educate him. They could not understand JaDa Bharata's inner spiritual advancement. But JaDa Bharata never protested their mistreatment, for he was completely liberated from the bodily concept of life. Whatever food came his way, he would accept it and eat, whether it was much or little, palatable or unpalatable. Since he was in full transcendental consciousness, he was not disturbed by material dualities like heat and cold. His body was as strong as a bull's, and his limbs were very muscular. He didn't care for winter's cold, summer's heat, wind, or rain. Because his body was perpetually dirty, his spiritual knowledge and effulgence were covered, just like a valuable gem covered by dirt and grime. Each day he was insulted and neglected by ordinary people, who considered him to be nothing more than a useless fool.

 

JaDa Bharata's only wages were the small portions of unpalatable foodstuffs provided by his brothers, who made him work like a slave in the fields. But he was unable to perform even simple tasks satisfactorily, because he did not know where to spread dirt or where to make the ground level. For food, his brothers gave him broken rice, rice chaff, oil cakes, worm-eaten grains, and burned grains that had stuck to the bottom of the cooking pots, but JaDa Bharata gladly accepted all this as if it were nectar. And he never held any grudges. He thus displayed the symptoms of a perfectly self-realized soul.

 

Once a leader of a band of thieves and murderers went to the temple of the goddess BhadrakAlI to offer in sacrifice a dull, unintelligent human being resembling an animal. Such sacrifices are nowhere mentioned in the Vedas and were concocted by the robbers for the purpose of gaining material wealth. Their plan was foiled, however, when the man who was to have been sacrificed escaped, so the chief robber sent his henchmen out to find him. Searching through fields and forests in the darkness of night, the robbers came to a rice field and saw JaDa Bharata, who was sitting on high ground guarding the field against the attacks of wild boars. The robbers thought JaDa Bharata would be a perfect sacrifice. Their faces shining with happiness, the robbers bound him with strong ropes and brought him to the temple of the goddess KAlI. JaDa Bharata, because of his complete faith in the protection of the Supreme Lord, did not protest. There is a song by a famous spiritual master that reads, "My Lord, I am now surrendered unto You. I am Your eternal servant, and if You like You can kill me, or if You like You can protect me. In any case, I am fully surrendered unto You."

 

The robbers bathed JaDa Bharata, dressed him in new silk garments, and decorated him with ornaments and garlands. They fed him a sumptuous last meal and brought him before the goddess, whom they worshiped with songs and prayers. JaDa Bharata was forced to sit before the deity. Then, one of the thieves, acting as the chief priest, raised a razor-sharp sword to slit JaDa Bharata's throat so they could offer KAlI his warm blood as liquor.

 

But the goddess could not bear this. She understood that the sinful thieves were about to kill a great devotee of the Lord. Suddenly, the form of the deity burst open and the goddess herself appeared, her body burning with an intense, intolerable effulgence. The infuriated goddess flashed her blazing eyes and displayed her fierce, curved teeth. Her eyes, crimson orbs, glowered, and she appeared as if she were prepared to destroy the entire cosmos.

 

Leaping violently from the altar, she quickly decapitated all the rogues and thieves with the very sword with which they had intended to kill the saint JaDa Bharata.

 

 

JaDa Bharata Instructs King RahUgaNa

 

After his escape from the KAlI temple, JaDa Bharata continued his wanderings, remaining aloof from ordinary, materialistic men.

 

One day, as King RahUgaNa of SauvIra was being carried through the district on a palanquin resting on the shoulders of several servants, the men, who were fatigued, began to falter. Realizing they would need another carrier to help them cross the IkSumatI River, the King's servants began searching for someone. Soon they saw JaDa Bharata, who appeared to be a good choice because he was very young and strong as an ox. But because he saw all living beings as his brothers, JaDa Bharata could not perform this task very well. As he walked, he kept stopping to be sure that he wasn't stepping on any ants. According to the subtle but precise laws of reincarnation, all living entities must remain for a specific length of time in a particular body before being promoted to a higher form. When an animal is killed before its time, the soul must return to that same species to complete its encagement in that type of body. Therefore, the Vedas enjoin that one should always avoid whimsically killing other living beings.

 

Unaware of what was causing the delay, King RahUgaNa shouted, "What's going on? Can't you carry this thing properly? Why is my palanquin shaking like this?"

 

Hearing the threatening voice of the King, the frightened servants replied that the disturbance was being caused by JaDa Bharata. The King angrily chastised him, sarcastically accusing JaDa Bharata of carrying the palanquin like a weak, skinny, tired old man. But JaDa Bharata, who understood his true spiritual identity, knew that he was not his body. He was neither fat, nor lean, nor thin, nor did he have anything to do with the lump of flesh and bones that comprised his body. He knew that he was an eternal spirit soul situated within the body, like a driver within a machine. Therefore, JaDa Bharata remained unaffected by the King's angry criticism. Even if the King were to order him killed, he would not have cared, because he knew that the soul is eternal and can never be killed. As Lord KRSNa says in the GItA, "The soul is not slain when the body is slain."

 

JaDa Bharata remained silent and kept carrying the palanquin as before, but the King, unable to control his temper, shouted, "You rascal, what are you doing? Don't you know that I am your master? For your disobedience I shall now punish you!"

 

"My dear King," said JaDa Bharata, "whatever you have said about me is true. You seem to think that I have not labored hard enough to carry your palanquin. That is true, because actually I am not carrying your palanquin at all! My body is carrying it, but I am not my body. You accuse me of not being very stout and strong, but this merely shows your ignorance of the spirit soul. The body may be fat or thin, or weak or strong, but no learned man would say such things about the real self within. As far as my soul is concerned, it is neither fat nor skinny; therefore you are correct when you say that I am not very strong."

 

JaDa Bharata then began to instruct the King, saying, "You think you are lord and master, and you are therefore trying to command me, but this is also incorrect, because these positions are ephemeral. Today you are a king and I am your servant, but in our next lives our positions may be reversed; you may be my servant and I your master."

 

Just as the waves of the ocean bring pieces of straw together and then break them apart, the force of eternal time brings living entities together in temporary relationships, such as master and servant, and then breaks them apart and rearranges them.

 

"In any case," JaDa Bharata continued, "who is master, and who is servant? Everyone is forced to act by the laws of material nature; therefore no one is master and no one is servant."

 

The Vedas explain that the human beings in this material world are like actors on a stage, performing under the direction of a superior. Onstage, one actor may play the role of a master, and another may play the role of his servant, but they are both actually the servants of the director. In the same way, all living entities are the servants of the Supreme Lord, SrI KRSNa. Their roles as masters and servants in the material world are temporary and imaginary.

 

After explaining all this to King RahUgaNa, JaDa Bharata said, "If you still think that you are the master and that I am the servant, I shall accept this. Please order me. What can I do for you?"

 

King RahUgaNa, who had been trained in spiritual science, was astonished to hear the teachings of JaDa Bharata. Recognizing him as a saintly person, the King quickly descended from his palanquin. His material conception of himself as a great monarch had been obliterated, and he fell humbly to the ground, his body outstretched, offering obeisances, his head at the feet of the holy man.

 

"O saintly person, why are you moving through the world unknown to others? Who are you? Where do you live? Why have you come to this place? O spiritual master, I am blind to spiritual knowledge. Please tell me how I may advance in spiritual life."

 

King RahUgaNa's behavior is exemplary. The Vedas declare that everyone, even kings, must approach a spiritual master in order to gain knowledge of the soul and the process of reincarnation.

 

JaDa Bharata replied, "Because his mind is full of material desire, the living entity takes on different bodies in this material world, to enjoy and suffer the pleasures and pains brought about by material activity."

 

When one sleeps at night, one's mind creates many dreamlike situations of enjoyment and suffering. A man may dream that he is associating with a beautiful woman, but this enjoyment is illusory. He may also dream that he is being chased by a tiger, but the anxiety he experiences is also unreal. In the same way, material happiness and distress are simply mental creations, based on identification with the material body and material possessions. When one awakens to his original, spiritual consciousness, he sees that he has nothing to do with these things. One accomplishes this by concentrating one's mind in meditation upon the Supreme Lord.

 

If one fails to constantly fix one's mind on the Supreme Lord and render service to Him, he must undergo the cycle of birth and death described by JaDa Bharata.

 

"The condition of the mind causes births in different types of bodies," JaDa Bharata said. "These bodies may be those of many different species, for when one uses the mind to understand spiritual knowledge, he gets a higher body, and when one uses it only for obtaining material pleasure, he receives a lower body."

 

JaDa Bharata compared the mind to a flame in a lamp. "When the flame burns the wick improperly, the lamp is blackened with soot. But when the lamp is filled with clarified butter and the flame burns properly, the lamp produces brilliant illumination. The mind absorbed in material life brings endless suffering in the cycle of reincarnation, but when the mind is used to cultivate spiritual knowledge, it brings about the original brightness of spiritual life."

 

JaDa Bharata then warned the King, "As long as one identifies with the material body, one must wander throughout the unlimited universes in different species of life. Therefore, the uncontrolled mind is the greatest enemy of the living being.

 

"My dear King RahUgaNa, as long as the conditioned soul accepts the material body and is not freed from the contamination of material enjoyment, and as long as he does not conquer his senses and his mind and come to the platform of self-realization by awakening his spiritual knowledge, he is forced to wander in different places and in different forms in this material world."

 

JaDa Bharata then revealed his own past lives. "In a previous birth, I was known as King Bharata. I attained perfection by becoming completely detached from material activities. I was fully engaged in the service of the Lord, but I relaxed my control over my mind and became so affectionate to a small deer that I neglected my spiritual duties. At the time of death I could think of nothing but this deer, so in my next life I had to accept the body of a deer."

 

JaDa Bharata concluded his teachings by informing the King that those who desire freedom from the cycle of reincarnation must always associate with self-realized devotees of the Lord. Only by associating with exalted devotees can one attain the perfection of knowledge and cut to pieces the illusory associations of this material world.

 

Unless one has the opportunity to get the association of the devotees of the Lord, he can never understand the first thing about spiritual life. The Absolute Truth is revealed only to one who has attained the mercy of a great devotee, because in the assembly of pure devotees, there is no question of discussing material subjects like politics and sociology. In an assembly of pure devotees, there is discussion only of the qualities, forms, and pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is praised and worshiped with full attention. This is the simple secret by which one can revive his dormant spiritual consciousness, end forever the vicious cycle of reincarnation, and return to a life of eternal pleasure in the spiritual world.

 

After receiving lessons from the great devotee JaDa Bharata, King RahUgaNa became fully aware of the constitutional position of the soul and gave up completely the bodily conception of life, which chains the pure souls to the endless cycle of birth and death in the material world.</blockquote>

[Guest guest]

 

I am new to Hinduism, but I like it a lot. It is a very interesting spiritual science and I am following it keenly. However, there is one question that keeps popping up in my mind. How come India that has given birth to lofty ideals so poor, both in matter and in spirit? How come Hindus, who brag about having the greatest culture, so lowly and gutless? It puzzles me, can a great culture give birth to cowardly children? I am asking this as a friend, I am not evaluating Indians or India. But this is an observation that comes in the minds of all westerners who practise the great Sanatana Dharma.

 

 

Though many have asked for details or explanation, the original poster has not given one answer to any of these questions. Seems more cowardly than those they criticize.

[Guest guest]

for replying to my post. I meant no disrespect, and I feel some of you have misunderstood my point. Let me explain it clearly point by point:

 

1) I have read a lot of Hindu philosophy, so please drop this idea that I am just another average Joe who knows nothin' about nothin'. I consider Hinduism to be the greatest religion. No argument.

 

2) I also know that India was the richest nation in the world until 18th century.

 

3) India was also the most advanced

 

4) India's contribution is unimaginable. Astronomy, medicine, surgery, economy, arts, music, philosophy, religion...the list goes on. No country can match India, and I AGREE COMPLETELY.

 

So you see, we both agree on these points, but my question was entirely different. I am talking about modern India, not ancient India. I agree with all of you that India was the greatest country back then, even better than Romans and Greeks or Egyptians. In fact, Romans used to beg India to do trade, so great was the wealth. The very word "hypocrite" comes from the greek word "Hippocrates", the alleged father of modern medicine. He stole most of his ideas from Indians, thats why the term hypocrite is derived from his name. Obviously there is no doubt in my mind that India's contributions were remarkable. But I repeat: My question only relates to the present-day India, which doesn't look like the land that produced philosophers and artists and visionaries. The first university in the world was established in Bihar, but modern Bihar is supposed to be the poorest state in India. Get my drift? India today is in no way similar to ancient India. I want to know why. I want to know how the great India that produced some of the finest thinkers could degenrate so easily.

[stonehearted]

Guest: The very word "hypocrite" comes from the greek word "Hippocrates", the alleged father of modern medicine. He stole

most of his ideas from Indians, thats why the term hypocrite is derived from his name.

 

Where do you get this information? Actually, "hypocrite" stems from a greek word for "pretense." You can find this etymology in any dictionary.

[Guest guest]

It happens.All material opulence is temporary in this world so no surprise at all.When a nation becomes poor materially then all kind of problems prop up.Now USA will enjoy for next 10,000 years.

 

Joy

[Guest guest]

prop=pop

[Krishna69]

Any country becomes poor and find it difficult to manage when there is population explosion. As i have mentioned earlier, the present day India remains poor economically, because by the time the country got united and recover from the past lootings by British and try to develop its own infrastructure in all industries, there was simultaneous explosion of population too. Moreover, unfortunately after the freedom fighters who fought for the nation's independence passed away, the people who started ruling, botherd more about how to improve their family wealth than country's well being. Money started accumulating in one sector and poverty in another sector. I would not agree that India is a poor country. The economy is not balanced and the distribution is not equal. Bribery and corruption has increased to a larger extent by the present day politicians especially for the past 30 years in almost all the states. Howmuch ever people shuffle the candidates in electing them, every party remains the same and this is the fact out of which development is hampered. Due to the unstable and constantly irritating political situation, people whoever could afford higher education started moving out of the country. Some of NRIs still invested their money but majority could not for various reasons. But in noway people are low in their attitudes or behaviour or cultural aspects which is a wrong perception of yours. Have you lived in India to comment about people in general like that. Cowardly is again a stron word of yours. HOwmuch ever people write or talk against the politicians, the one who say will come and do better does not do any better job than making money. To get a constitutional majority for any amendment you need to have two third supports. To create new laws against existing corruption, no party's politicians are ready to make any change because they only feel that its going to affect everybody. HOnestly people have become helpless in choosing their leaders because every new fellow appears to be the same irrespective of what and how good he was before becoming the leader. This is the major problem which is also due to ignorance and illiteracy in villages where they blindly beleive the politicians. All these factors contributed to the economic downfall and downfall in the fame of the country. But the general population is in noway low in their attitudes, behaviour, coward or less inteligent than to any other nation as how you are imagining. Are you not aware of the high percentage of Indian software engineers in United states. How is it possible unless we have brains?

shyam

[Guest guest]

life is hard for general public in india...how can they be cowards?They face unimaginable hardhsips everyday.

 

All countries are different because we have misused our free will and divided mother earth.

 

people who are very poor in material things but advanced spiritually are really the wealthy.they have all riches of the world...don't fear death because they know all their assets can never be taken away.

 

Shyam prabhuji this is not a reply to you.It is for the guest.

 

Haribol!

 

Joy

[Guest guest]

 

I meant no disrespect, and I feel some of you have misunderstood my point. Let me explain it clearly point by point: (snip)

 

 

 

In that case, my very first response remains the answer to your question. It should not be minimized because of what may appear simple. Karma is not so simple, it is complex. When breaking the laws of God, especially knowingly, intense karmic reaction will come. What is going on in modern day, or kali yuga India, is one way that it plays out.

 

The details of how we think it happened, that can be looked at if you want, but to think we've got it all figured out is simplistic because we are all in illusion. If we are lucky we may see partial truth. Often we just see the various illusions sent our way to keep us in the dark, until we want to get out of this world. Then slowly, some is revealed.

 

However, even if we figure out some of the why's or hows that various problems go on in India, this too would not have manifested if meat eating, illicit sex, etc., had not been made acceptable there. Even McDonalds is in India now! They are trying to copy Westerners and are paying the price, only the price is higher for them since the activities the westerners do are out of ignorance. When we, the devotees who are Westerners, learned better, we did better.

 

So the real question could be, "why does anyone suffer?" The short answer is, when we did not see God the easy way and broke religious laws, so when we suffered karmic reaction until finally we ask, as you have, "Why,How come?Why are they so foolish?,What caused this?" etc." If we follow the answer to its end, it will lead us back to God. Ihat's what we desire. He never forces us.

 

Please consider reading my former post:

 

 

When you were a child and did something you knew to be wrong, your mother probably gave you consequences for that action. If your brother or sister who was younger and more innocent or ignorant, did the same thing wrong, but did not know any better, mother did not give as serious of consequences. India knows meat eating is bad, it is known that it's higly karmic. One who murders (thou shalt not kill, which includes animals), and knows better, is going to get severe reactions. That is the answer to your question.

 

That and any other karmic (bad) activity they commit when knowing better.

 

Hope this helped.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Ihat's what we desire. He never forces us.

 

 

Typo above.

 

"IF" that is what we desire.

 

Thanks.

[gHari]

Who is more 'advanced', JaDa Bharata or King RahUgaNa?

 

The barbarian Muslim hordes, British hordes, Chinese hordes, corporate commerce hordes, and all the greed and avarice they bring with them have certainly been a drag on Bharata over the centuries.

 

Bharata now seems more like a JaDa Bharata than a King Bharata; but it is Bharata nonetheless. Don't sound like the arrogant Brits looking down on the little wogs. Empty hearts and full pockets is only superiority in the mind of a shallow creature. India will do well to be shunned by such a mentality, just as the dirty fool JaDa Bharata to his delight was shunned by the world.