honest question from a westerner

[Guest guest]

 

I notice you have give up your earlier questions about the lowly hindus and cowardly children.

 

I suggest you read a couple of books on Indian history and world history. Most of what you have written about India and the world is incorrect. Perhaps, you have been misinformed by some desi religious men [vivekanada, iskcon et al.,] who travelled west to paint a glorious picture of ancient India to improve their business prospects. Anything for the dollars.

 

India was not even a nation until the last century, what to speak of it being the richest nation at any point of time? The achievements of a handful of thinkers and competent rulers are not sufficient to conclude that India was great in the past. In fact, India was never as good as it is today. People are gradually giving up age old superstitions and their parochial outlook towards life. A selfish approach is being replaced by a professional, pragmatic approach. So happily enough, India is progressing, albeit slowly.

 

Modern India therefore, is much better than ancient India.

 

Cheers

[theist]

The nameless guest who posted previous to me shows his/herself to be a fool first off by claiming that Prabhupada's motivation was for money.

 

Further revealing confusion by considering modern living improvements over the past carte blanche.

 

Let's see this person show us literature equal to India's. Especially in terms of spirtural knowledge which is the very essence of all learning.

 

Present day modern India is now importing the worst of US television programing. Is that the great improvments? Or is it the growing use of the automobile which in a country of 1 billion will surely become a curse in just a short while. Or maybe its the growing acceptance of cow slaughter that has our guest proclaim progress.

 

Certainly India has many superstitions. But none to equal the West where 90% or more are philosophicaly convinced the body is the self and that bodily death is the end of life.

 

Perhaps its just how one defines progress. Material life means life upside down from spiritual life afterall.

 

How about it guest, which end is up to you?

[shvu]

 

That was me, theist. Forgot to log in.

 

 

The nameless guest who posted previous to me shows his/herself to be a fool first off by claiming that Prabhupada's motivation was for money.

 

 

Let us face it. Without money, no organizations, no temples, no preaching and no charity is possible. Hard fact of life. Vivekananda and therefore Prabhupada, went all the way to America only because that was the best place to start in terms of acquiring resources. There were several countries on the way they could have chosen for preaching, but that would have been bad strategy. No matter how much spiritual one is, if he wishes to propogate his ideas, he needs money - plain and simple. Hence the rush for Indian godmen to go to America and not to kazhakstan or Namibia.

 

 

Let's see this person show us literature equal to India's. Especially in terms of spirtural knowledge which is the very essence of all learning.

 

 

You are kidding, I am sure. India with it's vast religious literature has nothing to contribute to the world. Spiritual knowledge is just spiritual knowledge and is in no way "the essence of all learning". Every technology and modern comfort [such as your computer for instance] you use has nothing to with spiritual knowledge.

 

 

Present day modern India is now importing the worst of US television programing. Is that the great improvments? Or is it the growing use of the automobile which in a country of 1 billion will surely become a curse in just a short while. Or maybe its the growing acceptance of cow slaughter that has our guest proclaim progress.

 

 

As far as I am concerned, killing a cow is no worse than killing any other animal; I simply cannot impose an artifical criterion that killing a cow is somehow a more serious offense because some joker said so many centuries past. Animal killing has been going on in India from time immemorial and is not something that was learnt from the west. Progress is when people begin to live better lives and have a pragmatic view towards life, compared to the original closed, rigid outlook of the Indian way of life.

 

 

Perhaps its just how one defines progress. Material life means life upside down from spiritual life afterall.

 

 

When speaking of a country, material progress is all there is. Spiritual progress is purely a personal thing and it makes no sense to extend it to a whole country. Let us talk reality. Spiritual literature is written by a tiny fraction of the population and it is incorrect to think India was spiritual because vast amounts of literature was churned out from that area. If you want the correct picture, look at what the majority of the people did/do.

 

Cheers

[gHari]

There are far more English-speaking people in America than in these countries. Srila Prabhupada's mandate was to preach to the English-speaking world. Certainly the Bowerie can hardly be considered the most opulent portion of America. Telling hippies to give up drugs, sex and rock n' roll is hardly the best sales pitch to definitely not the most affluent audience.

 

I really don't think that Prabhupada had much choice in where he went or what he did. He was obviously incredibly surrendered to his guru, Gauranga, and Sri Krsna; it is They who moved his feet about the world. Just try sitting down in a park and see if you can prompt millions of people all over the world to chant Hare Krsna. It is nothing short of miraculous.

[vsdprasad]

 

Vivekananda and therefore Prabhupada, went all the way to America only because that was the best place to start in terms of acquiring resources.

 

 

plain speculation by so-called pragmatic people's narrow mind. Vivekananda came to America to speak at the Religious Conference, not to earn a comfortable living and acquire resources as you think. and Srila Prabhupada came to west after his spiritual master advised him to preach in English Speaking nations. Fyki english was not the official language of kazakhstan or namibia at that time. He came to America because it was a place where people indulge in all kinds of sinful activities and influencing others' cultures.

 

-Prasad.

[Guest guest]

 

Ok..I'll call your bluff. Give an example of one "sinful activity" [sic] that went on in America that was not found in one of the European, english speaking countries.

 

Cheers

 

 

[stonehearted]

Dear guest, you still haven't answered my question about your idea of the etymology of "hypocrite." Where do you find it has its origin in the name Hippocrates?

[vsdprasad]

who said America is the ONLY place where sinful activities go on? They happen in every place, even in India. Well, if you had read some of the sites about Srila Prabhupada, you will probably learn about a company by name Scindia ship Co. Fortuantely Srila Prabhupada got a free ticket to Boston by the manager of that ship company. If he had got a free ticket to some European or English speaking country, he might have probably gone to that country to preach.

 

-Prasad.

[Kishalaya]

Just my 2 cents worth!

 

Let us face it. Without money, no organizations, no temples, no preaching and no charity is possible. Hard fact of life. Vivekananda and therefore Prabhupada, went all the way to America only because that was the best place to start in terms of acquiring resources. There were several countries on the way they could have chosen for preaching, but that would have been bad strategy. No matter how much spiritual one is, if he wishes to propogate his ideas, he needs money - plain and simple. Hence the rush for Indian godmen to go to America and not to kazhakstan or Namibia.

 

The need for money is correct. But what is the intent behind them. Accumulation of arms are by themselves neither good or bad, but for what purpose and how much, that is the question. Yesterday I was disturbed on account of some lack of spiritual understanding, but when I opened Prabhupada's Bhagavatam 1st canto, I was relieved. Without money would that have been possible in today's world. In olden times a brahmana's request was taken as life and soul by the king who would open his treasury if the former just once asked for funds in matters of dharma.

 

You are kidding, I am sure. India with it's vast religious literature has nothing to contribute to the world. Spiritual knowledge is just spiritual knowledge and is in no way "the essence of all learning". Every technology and modern comfort [such as your computer for instance] you use has nothing to with spiritual knowledge.

 

These computers and other things which we are so proud of today, are workarounds (sometimes even excuses) for our own laziness. These things have become necessary because we have created a need for them. How much happiness does the world have today in comparison to a hundred, a thousand or a million years ago? happiness that is, not abundance of sophisticated toys! I am fully convinced, a person situated in a higher taste has absolutely no hankering for these toys. Bhagavatam mentiones that material progress and accumulation should be done only to live a peaceful life in which the major portion of the time is spent in God realization. However just look at the pathetic state of today's "progressive" world where just to earn one's bread and butter takes nearly the whole of one's time. Is there any more proof needed for kaliyug!

 

As far as I am concerned, killing a cow is no worse than killing any other animal; I simply cannot impose an artifical criterion that killing a cow is somehow a more serious offense because some joker said so many centuries past. Animal killing has been going on in India from time immemorial and is not something that was learnt from the west. Progress is when people begin to live better lives and have a pragmatic view towards life, compared to the original closed, rigid outlook of the Indian way of life.

 

All killing is bad, but this is the material world that one is accruing sins even by existing "jivah jivasya jivanam". Of course, you may find scriptures as writings of "jokers", however if they turn out to be not, you may have a problem later. Therefore some people like myself take a more cautious approach and do try to follow them, because we do not consider our fathers and forefathers to have had a less critical bent of mind than those inhabiting the world today.

And about the "animal killing" in scriptures, some great authorities who are conversant exactly, what the flow of each text is, find these quotations to be interpolations most probably by the imperial British to undermine the culture of the sanaatan dharma. About your "pragmatic view of life", if you have studied the philosophy of ethics, you may have found that western philosophy with all its theories is still not able to justify a paricular ethical system. Each society creates its own pragmatic ethical system which is why the world today is in a such a deplorable state. It is a shame that humans being accidentally endowed with superior intelligence use the pretext of "pragmatic ethics" where the wilful killing of humans is termed "murder" and the wilful killing of animals is termed as "economy".

 

When speaking of a country, material progress is all there is. Spiritual progress is purely a personal thing and it makes no sense to extend it to a whole country. Let us talk reality. Spiritual literature is written by a tiny fraction of the population and it is incorrect to think India was spiritual because vast amounts of literature was churned out from that area. If you want the correct picture, look at what the majority of the people did/do.

 

 

Majority of the Indians today ape the west and that too all the bad things. Nobody will copy the traffic discipline of the west but boozing whoring are all on par. Therefore the Indians by nature are not suited for material advancement. However an illeterate rickshaw puller here knows he is not the body! In any case, it will be too simplistic to judge the character of a land based solely on the character of its current popluation. Spiritual progress may be a personal thing, however great thinkers (who you would probably like to call jokers) considered it to be a necessary one too and out of compassion took pains to spread spiritual message far and wide for the sake of humanity at large.

 

-Kishalaya

[Guest guest]

Anyone who is under the impression that Prabhupada came to America for material reasons is under illusion at best.

 

Srila Prabhupada stood in line behind his brahmacari disciples to take a shower!

 

He lived in a room and wanted to be with his disciples.

 

Other gurus arriving at that time stayed in lavish hotels.

 

There are many more examples about the humble, meek position Prabhupada accepted while here. Do you really think he enjoyed living in the home of a mlecca upon his very first arrival, or that he had to put up with all the stupid things we former melcca's did? It was all an austerity he accepted so he could follow the instruction of his guru.

 

I suggest those with material minds tell the mind to hush, and hear with spiritual ears, see with spiritual eyes.

[Guest guest]

 

He lived in a room and wanted to be with his disciples.

 

 

That is, he lived in a room in the temple and wanted to be with his disciples. Anyway, he did not live in fancy hotel or separate from his disciples.

[Guest guest]

A materialist will never understand the motives of a lover of God untill they experience real compassion for others themselves.

It takes one to know one. It is dangerous to judge others motives, especially God empowered souls. Pull back Shivu.

You have a long history of disrespect to Srila Prabhupad the acharya of Iskcon. Please refrain from this endless attempt to undermine the good works this great personality has done for so many appreciative souls, both east and west.

His legacy is still flourishing through innumerable missions of Krsna consciousness around the world, giving many hope and faith in a reality that far outweighs the matter worship they left behind and any contribution you have given to this world. But even you through your computer may have gained a little of Prabhupads grace through his endlessly tolerant devotees, on your long journey thru birth after birth of ignorance.

Even though you always offer an antithesis to the devotees perspective, it often comes across offensive and ill-informed, so if you can't offer some honorable constructive criticism it would be a far greater service to keep your misconceptions to yourself, and allow the devotees to help fresh aspirants to discover the wonder that is Krsna Consciousness.

You always offer 'cheers' but it brings no joy to the hearts of those genuine servitors of Srila Prabhupad and Krsna reading your posts. What's night to one is day to another, just as what is cheer to one is misery to others.

[Guest guest]

Who is Responsible for the Decay of Varna Dharma?

Read this page: http://kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part3/chap6.htm

This gives most of the answers to your question.

[Guest guest]

"I am new to Hinduism, but I like it a lot. It is a very interesting spiritual science and I am following it keenly. However, there is one question that keeps popping up in my mind. How come India that has given birth to lofty ideals so poor, both in matter and in spirit? How come Hindus, who brag about having the greatest culture, so lowly and gutless? It puzzles me, can a great culture give birth to cowardly children? I am asking this as a friend, I am not evaluating Indians or India. But this is an observation that comes in the minds of all westerners who practise the great Sanatana Dharma. "

 

Dear Guest, this question should be considered in with regard to time and circumstances, as should everything.

 

I am not a scholar. I don't quote scripture very well, nor have I bothered to memorize more than a few passages. But this will make sense to qualified observers.

 

One thing is sure… things change. Either we change or things change before our eyes. Everything is in flux. Despite all your criticism, India is one of the oldest "surviving" cultures on the planet. It is due to it's greatness.

 

India has been invaded by many other cultures including the Europeans. They minded their own business instead of preparing to lord over others posessions. Perhaps you should ask the Brits why India is so impoverished. I know the Americans couldn't stand their rule. The assault of European influence on other nations has extinquished a few and decimated the rest. How will you fare if a technologically superior army invades your country?

 

The age of Kali itself is a predominant factor. Religion overall is eventually expected to diminish to nothing. People come to the wrong conclusions and take the body's interest to be everything. Yet, people are still comparatively smarter in India than anywhere else in the world.

 

I don't understand your lowly and gutless question. Please elucidate your position.

 

Again, cowardly children. Seems to be based on the previoius question. Please explain.

 

Westerners who practice santana dharma will get universal perspectives and think in terms of God's existence, where we are at in relation to Him, and how it is all governed by nature. They will see beyond the bodily identification and empathize with others understanding through scripture.

 

Guess Guest

[Guest guest]

jad bharat was advanced spiritually, but he was not able to protect common public from asura gangs - terroris.

luckily there were no terrorist at the time.

 

jad bhart did not care to help others advance spiritually or materially. he did not do sankirtana parties.

 

rahuban king was advanced in kshatriya art.

he provided protection and law and order to millions.

 

the comparison is not apple to apple, but apple to coconut.

just a thought.

 

jai sri krishna!

 

[Guest guest]

the answer was already given

 

many conquerors and colonizers have destroyed and almost nullified the indian agriculture, economy and have depicted the indian religion as a strange tribal hodge podge

 

now it is hard to recuperate

[Guest guest]

It seems that most people who replied to this honest question have provided an emotional, defensive and incomplete answer.

 

Humility is important. One must accept one's own defects in order to grow and better oneself. It is true that Westerners perceive India and Indians as primitive people with a significant lack of moral values.

 

I am South-American (living in Canada), and South-Americans react in the same way when they are criticized. However, it is true that South-Americans are liers, cheaters, corrupt, and that all they thik about is taking advantage of others, always make a buck by cheating or manipulating someone.

 

How come our rich countries, rich in oil, gas, minerals, water, fertile countries low in population, are starving??? Because of a lack of moral values.

 

The structures are there: democracy, taxes, universal education, but people are aggressive and trespassing against each other, physically and psychologically abusive. Nobody follows the law, nobody cares about others.

 

Why are our countries filthy and dirty? Because NOBODY cares about others enough to walk 20 or 30 steps to the garbage can: They are TOO good to do that, they want to be served, they want the government to serve them and to clean up.

 

How come civilized countries are clean? Because each of their citizens is concerned by the welfare of the community and makes the effort to walk to the next garbage can. Each one of their citizens understands that the best of the community is also the best for the individuals.

 

May be India is like South-America. And this has nothing to do with the religion, but with the lack of values of everybody.