"They Should Not Leave Iskcon"

[raga]

 

But you can go to any ISKCON temple you want,

You will never hear something about the love of Radha Krsna,

they even forbid related topics

 

 

Which temples did you go to, and how many gurus you heard? Did you ever ask from any senior Vaishnava about the love of Radha and Krishna? Just curious, I am asking. I know many who have studied the writings of the Gosvamis, many of them have books from Sri Ananta Das Babaji and Narayan Maharaj in their closet and they are reading.

 

 

Bur for over 20 years of hearing ISKCON gurus, comparing with what I heard by chance somewhere else, I can say, and I speak for myself (but you can read also what the other wrote here in this connection) they don?t preach the mission of Sri Caintanya.

 

 

As if preaching the mission of Sri Caitanya meant that everyone preaches the same thing. They are definitely preaching the message of Sri Caitanya, albeit on a more elementary level, and many of them probably could not teach adequately about the higher levels of sadhana, but nevertheless it is the message of Sri Caitanya. If it is not an aspect of His message, then whose message is it?

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

"We are not Hindus. "

 

hindu means vedic people, those who accept the authority of the vedas and live by it. hindu and hinduism are just new names of the vedic people and sanatana dharma.

therefore it is obvious that that words cannot be found in scriptures.

 

only the hindus worship krishna and know that krishna is god. therefore krishna devotees are hindus, and vaishnavas specifically. prabhupadas was not a muslim or christian or a jew or any one else except a pure hindus, a krishna bhakta. (how can you prove that he and chaitanya were not hindus?)

 

therefore his follower are hindus,

no matter what they say.

 

this politics of "we are not hindus" means this:

 

"if you think we are hindus then you hindus support us, follow us, but we are not hindus and we will not support you in your struggle for a hindu nation (like it was in the time of yudhisthira). we sure like to do yatras at various dhamas in india, but we will not care if the muslims destroy them. you worry about that, not we. why we say we are not hindus? well, there is no proof about it. we say it just becaue prabhupada said it. we are close minded followers. we cannot see the facts and make decisions.

we even do not try to understand why he said he is not preaching hinduism, when in fact he preached a major sect of hinduism."

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

 

I don't know why you insist that we are not Hindus. It certainly is not only Hindu's who worship Krishna! Look around these message boards alone for proof of that.

 

You must not be reading Prabhupada's books but someone elses also. Many places Prabhupada SAYS that we are not Hindu. So, he is wrong?

 

Maybe you are just attached to your material body which is Hindu, and I mean no offense by that. Simply, it has been repeatedly explained on these message board that we are not hindu, and since you have been here a long time, I am sure by now you have read these explanations and still you argue that we are hindus. Therefore I do not waste time putting them up again. You have made up your mind.

 

I humbly suggest you read Prabhupuda's books and grasp the understanding that we are not Hindus. Time to get off the bodily platform. That is just step number one of spiriutal realization. It must come first in order to advance. Give up this attachment to body and find the soul within everyone. Incidentally, every single soul on earth originated from Krishna, every single culture and every single country. Even an ant. We do not discriminate but welcome all to please chant Hare Krishna and go back to home, back to Godhead.

[Guest guest]

 

Genocide committed in the name of Allah: 3,000,000 Bangladeshi Hindus Killed during the Pakistan-Bangladesh war in 1971. From 1894 to 1896 Abdul Hamid, Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, killed 150,000 Armenian Christians. In India, Sikh Guru Tegh Bahadur along with his disciples was burned to death by the Moghul ruler Aurangzeb in 1675. Another Sikh, Bhai Mati Das was sawn into right and left halves while he was still alive. In July 1974, 4,000 Christians living in Cyprus were killed by Fahri Koroturk, president of Turkey and his Islamic army. From 1843 to 1846 10,000 Assyrian Christians including women and children were massacred by the Muslims.

 

 

We should not be posting politics when someone sincerely inquires about Krishna consciousness. Actually, we should not be posting politics on this board, period. There is another one for that. We, the Hare Krishna devotees, are not Muslim haters. Mostly I see only those born in Hindu bodies on these boards have Muslim hatred. But to let people know, not all here who are in hindu body do this.

 

Now, for all you Hindu Muslim haters, Bhaktivinode Thakura was Muslim! One of our pure devotees in our own Vaisnava lineage.

[Guest guest]

 

I don't know why you insist that we are not Hindus. It certainly is not only Hindu's who worship Krishna! Look around these message boards alone for proof of that.

 

 

My mistake. I meant to say I don't know why you insist that we ARE Hindus.

[Guest guest]

 

Thank you for the reply. When I wrote communal I was not refering to physically living in communes but to communal religions-those that must have retention & new members to survive.

 

Like the Catholic church setting aside a couple billion for the conversion of India, including Mother Theresa's missions after so many churches closed in the USA and Europe-this occurred long before the priest scandals. The nature of belief is that it must perpetuate itself.

 

I understand that Hindu is not an ancient word as it would be very difficult to categorize the religions of India even today. Yet the sages of India proved to the British that all aspects of what they called Hinduism was geared towards mukti (enlightenment). Like there are those that worship the Christ who consider themselves Hindu as clearly in his message can be found moksha-liberation from births and deaths.

 

So this leads me to the question then is the Krishna religion geared towards enlightenment?

 

 

 

Pardon my very delayed reply. I did not come back to this thread because I knew it was going to become very politicial, with many using it as an opportunity to promote their own agenda rather than answer sincere questions. Anyway I am here now, though if you want to reply by starting a new thread, I might see it sooner. :-)

 

In answer to your questions, I don't know any group that doesn't survive without making new members, but we certainly do not put money aside to achive it. We never have. We are a preaching movement. While we agree Krishna consciousness is self perpetuating and people are attracted to it by nature, we do not belive in hiding it under a basket and expecting someone to find it. If it weren't for preaching, many of us would not be here today, and how sad that would make us! So preaching is an imporant part of our philosophy. Not that we become bhajan anandi's (those in India who just sing about Krishna but never share their knowledge with anyone). Of course, if someone is not inclined to hear, we are not to give them hard time and do not tell them they are going to hell. Well, I know a few (lousy!) preachers who have, but ya can't control people. Anyway, a qualified, good preacher of Krishna consciousness merely opens the door. Its up to the other person to walk thru it, or not.

 

As far as Christ and Krishna is concerned, Srila Prabhupada has repeatedly said that Jesus was a Vaisnava (pure devotee) and we accept him. He is son of God, and Krishna is God. No conflict there. :-) Certainly one who is Hindu can also worship Christ if they want to. There is no contradiction on the Hindus side, just from the Christians point of view.

 

Enlightenment? Thats what were all about! :-) The idea is to develop so much love of God/Krishna, and to serve Krishna nicely, that we no longer return to this material world of repeated birth and death, but retrun to our eternal, natural home with Lord Krishna.

[Guest guest]

When people talk of ISKCON, could they please clarify if they are referring to this modern one taken over by the GBC and current guru's, or the one that Prabhupada started which was free of politics and other nonsense. Lets face it, there are two ISKCON's. The one we have, and the real one. Prabhupada said ISKCON will rise to the Spiritual Sky. So we should not blaspheme it, but we should note the difference. I doubt he meant this political confused one will be doing any rising. So, whichever ISKCON everyone is talking about, instead of getting high on put downs of it, it would be appreciated if the poster would clarify which one they are speaking of, as well as given recognition and credit to Prabhupada's ISKCON, seeing the difference.

[Guest guest]

Who is stopping you from doing your Bhajan and chanting the pure Holy Name without offense?

[Guest guest]

 

Who is stopping you from doing your Bhajan and chanting the pure Holy Name without offense?

 

 

 

Prema vivarta, 7

AsAdhu saNgeta bhAi nAma nAhi haya

NAmAkSara bAhirAya bate nAma kabhu naya

Kabhu nAmAbhAsa sadAhaya nAma aparAdha

E saba jAnibe bhAi kRSNa bhaktir bAdha

Jadi karibe kRSNa nAma sAdhu saNga kara

Bhukti muktisiddhi cANchAdUre parihara

 

O brother! You cannot chant the Holy Name in the association of AsAdhu saNgeta - not pure devotees .

The sounds of the Holy Name may come out of your mouth,

but it will not really be the Name. It will sometimes be the Name's reflection (nAmAbhAsa)

and sometimes offensive chanting (nAma aparAdha) ,

but brother, you should know that in either case, this kind of chanting interferes with the attainment of pure devotion to Krishna.(uttama bhakti)

 

If you want to chant the Holy Names, then associate with pure devotees (sAdhu saNga ) and keep desires for sense enjoyment, liberation, and yogic powers at a distance.

 

your servant

the neophyte

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

The word sadhu does not only refer to a pure devotee, it refers to anyone practicing spiritual life and following a sadhana.

[stonehearted]

Guest: Now, for all you Hindu Muslim haters, Bhaktivinode Thakura was Muslim! One of our pure devotees in our own Vaisnava lineage.

 

Pardon me? What's your source for this information. My understanding is that his family were shaktas; his grandfather was a very saintly hindu.

 

I've written here as strongly against the muslim bashing as anyone, to no avail. I have simply given up on this one. However, I think you're just mistaken about this one. His name was Kedarnath Datt--clearly a "hindu" name. Have you read his autobiography?

[Guest guest]

(Chaitanya CharitAmRta 1.3.15-17)

 

sakala jagate more kare vidhi bhakti

vighi bhaktye vraja bhava paite nahi shakti

 

sishvarya jnanaete saba jagat miSrita

aisvarya Sithila preme nahi mora prita

 

aiSvarya jNane vidhi bhajana kariya

vaikunthake jaya catur vidha mukti pana

 

Everyone throughout the world worships Me according to scriptural injunctions; but by this process of vidhi bhakti one cannot attain the loving moods of Vraja.

The vhole world looks upon Me with awe and veneration, but devotion diluted by such consciousness of My majesty is not preferred by Me.

One who worships according to the scriptural iinjunctions in a mood of awe and veneration attains the four kinds of liberation and goes to Vaikuntha.

 

 

Sri Caitanya CaritAmRta Madya 17.144-145

 

bhavakali vecite ami ailana kasipure

grahaka nahi, na vikaya, lana yaba ghare

"I have come here to sell My emotional ecstatic sentiments in this city of Kasi, but I cannot find any customers. If they are not sold, I must take them back home.

 

bhari bojha lana ailana, kemane lana yaba?

alpa-svalpa-mulya paile, ethai veciba

 

"I have brought a heavy load to sell in this city. To take it back again is a very difficult job; therefore if I get but a fraction of the price, I shall sell it here in this city of Kasi."

 

(Sri Vidagdha MAdhava, RUpa GosvAmi)

Anarpita carim cirat karunaya avatirnah kalau

Samarpaytum unantojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam

Harih purata-sundara-dyuti-kadamba sandipitah

Sada hrdaya kandare spuratu vah saci-nandana

 

May that Lord, who is known as the son of Srimati Sacidevi

Be transcendentally situated in the innermost chamber of your heart.

Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold,

He has appeared in the age of Kali by His causeless mercy

To bestow what no avatara ever offered before

Manjari-bhava

The service of Srimati Radhika as Her confidential maidservant.(unantojjvala rasa)

 

(Gauranga nahito, Narahari dasa)

 

gaurANga nahito tabe ki hoito

kemone dharito de

rAdhAra mahimA prema rasa simA

jagate jAnAto ke

 

If Sriman GaurANga MahAprabhu had not appeared, then what would have become of us? How could we have tolerated living? In this universe who would have ever come to know the lories of Srimati RAdhArani and the topmost limit of prema rasa?

 

madhura vRndA vipina mAdhuri

praveSa cAturi sAr

baraja yuvati bhAvera bhakati

Sakati hoito kAr

 

If Sriman GaurANga MahAprabhu had not come, who could have had the intelligence to join the sweet madhura rasa of Sri RAdhA KRSNa's lilas in VRndAvana?

Who else could have given the power to enter the vraja ramaNis loving mood of sevA to yugala kiSora?

 

There are also many songs of our acaryas who explains

His mission glorifying Him

Emona Sacira Nandana Bine by PremAnanda dasa

Gauranga bolite Habe by Srila Nrottama dasa Thakura

Kali kukkura by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

Gaurangera Duti . by Srila Nrottama dasa Thakura

and so on.

 

your servant

the outcast

[livingentity]

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, then known as Kedarnatha Datta was born in 1838, in Birangara (Bengal). The youngest of seven sons, his father Raja Krisananda Datta was a great devotee of Lord Nityananda. The family lived in fairly wealthy circumstances, until Kedarnatha's father passed away in 1849, when they were reduced to poverty. In 1850, Kedarnatha's mother arranged a marriage with the five-year-old daughter of Madhusudana Mitra Mahasaya ; a resident of Rana Ghata.

 

Kedarnatha was taught by his uncle Kasiprasada Ghosh Mahasaya Thakura, at his home in Calcutta. Kasiprasada, having studied under the British education system was a central figure in many literary circles and the editor of the Hindu Intelligencer. Kedarnatha studied his uncle's books and helped him in submitting articles to the newspaper. He became an expert in English as a reader, speaker and writer. When he was 18, he went to college in Calcutta, where he wrote extensively in both English and Bengali ( these essays were published locally). He also lectured frequently in both languages. His best friend through these years was Sriman Dvijendranatha Thakura, the eldest son of Maharsi Devendranatha Thakura

 

Having seen the corruption in the business world Kedarnatha decided to become a teacher. He established an English school in Kendrapara, a village near Chutigrama in Orissa, thus pioneering English education in the state. Some time later he went to Puri and passed a teachers' examination; he got a teacher's post in a Cuttack school and later became headmaster of a school in Bhadraka and then in Madinipura. His dedicated work was noted by the school-board authorities. As headmaster, Bhaktivinoda studied the various religions and came to the realisation that the only real religion established in Bengal, albeit poorly, was that of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

In Bhadraka, his first son Annada Prasada (Acyutananda) was born, in 1860. After his wife died he married Bhagavati De in the town of Jakapura.

 

In 1861, Bhaktivinoda took up a government post as deputy magistrate in Bengal. In the years to come , he took up several government posts, chiefly as deputy magistrate in various parts of Bengal. He read Sri Caitanya-caritamrta repeatedly; his faith in Krishna Consciousness increasing until he was totally absorbed in the pure bhakti-sastras day and night.

 

Between the years 1874 and 1893, Bhaktivinoda Thakura spent much time in seclusion chanting the holy name (though he still executed his worldly duties); he wrote several books in Sanskrit such as Sri Krsna samhita, Tattva-sutram and Tattva-viveka and Datta-kausubha. He also wrote many books in Bengali such as the Kalyana-kalpataru. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura was an outstanding scholar and through the course of his life he was to write hundreds of books; a career he started at the age of 12. He spoke Bengali, Sanskrit, English, Latin, Urdu, Persian and Oriya. He managed to obtain and write a Sanskrit commentary on the Caitanyopanisada. His other literary works include Sri Caitanya Siksamrta, and also the Vaisnava-siddhanta-mala, Prema-pradipa and Manah-siksa.

 

Whilst in Puri, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura became manager of the Jagannatha Temple . He established regular worship of the Deity. In the temple courtyard he established a 'Bhakti Mandapa', where daily discourses of Srimad-Bhagavatam were held. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura would spend long hours discussing Krsna and chanting the holy name, especially at Tota-Gopinatha Mandir, the tomb of Haridasa Thakura, the Siddha Bakula and the Gambhira.

 

As a householder Bhaktivinoda had two wives and ten children, of which the great Vaisnava scholar Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati (Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura) was one. Bimala Prasad (Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati), Bhaktivinoda's fourth son, was born in Sri Purusottama Kshetra (Jagannatha Puri) on 6th February 1874 AD, answering the prayer of Bhaktivinoda for the Lord 'to send a Ray of Visnu' to preach the message of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu all over the world. He was given the name Bimal Prasad. Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati was to become the spiritual master of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

As a devotee, Bhaktivinoda showed great humility; he had strict moral standards and would not accept gifts from anyone. Even in his government duties, he refused all honours and titles.

 

When his seventh son was born, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura took pancaratrika diksa initiation from Bipin Bihari Goswami, descended from the Jahnava family of Baghnapara.

In 1881 Bhaktivinoda Thakura began publishing Sajjanatosani, his Vaisnava journal.

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura had previously made pilgrimages to Kasi, Prayaga, Mathura and Vrindavana in 1866. At the close of his stay in Naraila he desired to again see the land of Vraja, where he met Srila Jagannatha Dasa Babaji, and accepted him as his eternally worshippable siksa (instructing) guru.

 

From Vrindavana he went to Calcutta and bought a house . He started daily worship of Sri Giridhari (the transcendental form of Krsna who appeared in the form of Govardhana Hill) and called the house Bhakti-bhavan. In 1881, whilst excavating for the construction of the Bhakti bhavana at Rambagan in Calcutta, a Deity of Kurmadeva was unearthed. Bhaktivinoda entrusted his son Bimala with the service of the deity of Kurmadeva. In Calcutta, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura started the Sri Visva-Vaisnava Sabha, dedicated to the preaching of pure bhakti as taught by Lord Caitanya. To publicise the work of the society, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura published a small booklet entitled Visva-Vaisnava-kalpavi.

 

Also he published his own edition of the Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, with his Amrta-prabhava Bhasya commentary. And he introduced the Caitanyabda or Caitanya-era calendar, and gave assistance to the propagation of the Caitanya Panjika, which established the feast day of Gaura Purnima.

 

He lectured and gave readings on books such as Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu (of Srila Rupa Goswami) in various Vaisnava societies; he published in the Hindu Herald, an English periodical, a detailed account of Sri Caitanya's life.

 

It was at this time that the learned Vaisnavas recognised Kedaranatha Datta and gave him the honorary title of Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

 

Bhaktivinoda travelled and preached widely. In 1891, he took leave from government service for two years just for this purpose. He would lecture in clubs, societies and organisations. During this time he continued writing and opened many branches of Nama Hatta in different districts of Bengal. The Nama Hatta became a self-sustaining success which continued to spread even after his return to government service.

 

Once whilst stationed in Krishanaga, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, along with Jagannatha Dasa Babaji Maharaja found Lord Caitanya's birthplace in the year 1887. When the birthplace was uncovered, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Jagannatha Dasa Babaji would worship Lord Caitanya there.

 

In 1908 Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura took the external vesa dress of a babaji at Satasana, Puri , i.e he accepted paramahamsa-sannyasa. Until 1910 he travelled between Calcutta and Puri, still writing books; but during that year he shut himself up and entered samadhi, claiming paralysis.

 

On June 23rd., 1914, at Jagannatha Puri, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura Prabhupada passed away. This day was also the disappearance day of Sri Gadadhara Pandita.

 

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

The "Dutt" (Datta) families belong to the Brahmin caste.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

he got a teacher's post in a Cuttack school and later became headmaster of a school in Bhadraka and then in Madinipura.

 

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakur was the first headmaster of Bhadrak Highschool (the largest highschool in the district). His picture still hangs in the school today.

 

(Our Ashram and food relief program happen to be located in this city.)

[Guest guest]

 

The word sadhu does not only refer to a pure devotee, it refers to anyone practicing spiritual life and following a sadhana.

 

 

Who can speak Srimad Bhagavatam?

Sadhu can speak.

Sadhu means the one that has relation with sad vastu, with the eternal truth.

A gaudya vaisnava sadhu means sadnoti sadayati ca krsna prema iti sadhu, who themself is doing sadhana and by his association, he can cause you to come into the line of Suddha sadhana bhakti, and he teaches you what is your sadhya , the goal of your sadhana.

Sadhu is a pure devotee, by whose mercy bhakti manifest itself upon the seses of the sadhaka, spiritualises them and causes them to attain tadAtma, oneness with its nature

 

KRti sadhya bhavet sadhya

Bhava sa sadhanAbhidha

Nitya siddhasya bhavasya

Prakatyam hRdi sAdhyata

 

That bhakti which is accomplished

Through the function of the senses

And by which bhava bhakti is obtained

Is called saddhana bhakti

The manifesting of the nitya siddha bhava

Within the heart of the purified jiva

Is called sadhyata

 

When the faithful jiva, through his own effort performs bhagavan nama kirtana, with his material tongue, or hears bhgavat katha with his material ears, such an endeavor is called indrya vyapara , engagement of the senses.

These are preliminary activities to bhakti, they prepare someone for bhakti

just as for yajNa we have to collect some paraphernalia.

Because these activities prepare one for bhakti, they are accepted as bhakti, but truly they are not bhakti.

Bhakti is a function of the svarupa Sakti, not of the material senses.

 

your servant

the neophyte

[stonehearted]

Thanks, le and jndas. I'm looking for Shukavak's book for further help with this, but we don't have bookcases yet, so my books are mostly still in boxes.

[Guest guest]

KRti sadhya bhavet sadhya

Bhava sa sadhanAbhidha

Nitya siddhasya bhavasya

Prakatyam hRdi sAdhyata

 

That bhakti which is accomplished

Through the function of the senses

And by which bhava bhakti is obtained

Is called saddhana bhakti

The manifesting of the nitya siddha bhava

Within the heart of the purified jiva

Is called sadhyata

 

A sadhana bhakta is an extremely rara avis.

 

Only a person who is free from lethargy, who is faithful, whose activities are pure, and who is

desirous of bhagavad-bhakti is eligible to become a disciple.

When the guru considers the disciple fit and when the disciple

ascertains the guru to be a pure devotee of KRSNa and thus reposes

his faith in him, the spiritual master will then impart instructions

unto the disciple.

 

 

your servant

the neophyte

[Guest guest]

whe is this from

[Kishalaya]

I knew it.

I always knew it.

Iskcon preaches not the mission of Sri Caitanya,

who came to give ragAnuga marga.

and specially came to give manjari bhava

samrpaitum unantojjvala rasa(m)

sva bhakti Sriyam

 

You know Goya? The painter?

He said:

The beautiful ones with the beautiful ones and

the ugly ones with the ugly ones

so that there is harmony !

 

And what about the coyotes and shiva-coyote.

And what about the mercy?

 

 

Come on! Do you think Mahaaprabhu will kick those who do not understand manjari bhaava? Is He the sole property of the gopis? What a devotee of Narsingha Deva has no right to have feelings of devotion towards Mahaaprabhu? In this whole earth, till date, in my search, ISKCON is the only Gaudiya vaishnava organization with a liberal heart towards all devotees of Sri Hari. Srila Prabhupaada knew this very well -- and that is why He preached a very secular form of Vaishnavism, but that was all destroyed by the bogus form of raagaanugaas that came into fashon after Srila Prabhupaada -- shoving a guilt feeling down the throats of those devotees who are not interested in becoming gopis (i.e. interested in other lilaas of Sri Hari). I found genuine raagaanugaas (some of whom I have wrongly criticised because of my earlier impression of the bogus raagaanugaas), not only spread the inner desire of Sri Gauraanga i.e. manjari bhaava, but also appreciate all devotees of Sri Hari and one does not feel awkward in speaking with them because they are free from jealousy, envy, -- can genuinely empathise with an aspiring devotee's heart, since they are also aspiring devotees.

 

Kishalaya

[Kishalaya]

 

In reply to:

--

 

Yes the goal is beyond Vaikuntha. Such high aspirations one must have. But I have a question. If those devotees who prefer awe and veneration go to Vaikuntha what is the destination of those that try to take to raganuga prematurely and simply imitate for whatever resaon?

This question is really on one of curiousity as in my real life and in my heart I am somewhere below vaidhi in practice.

 

 

--

 

 

Since lobha is the qualification for raganuga-sadhana, and lobha is defined as that desire (for attaining the feelings of a Vraja-associate) which awakens without the force of scriptural commandment or logical conclusion, it is ludicrous to think that one could force himself into the practice of raganuga-sadhana just because he heard it should be done. It is never possible, such a person simply deceives himself. When greed for attaining the sweetness for the moods of the Vraja-loka attains, then qualification arises, and one begins to practice. Without eligibility one cannot practice, it will merely create a disturbance in the assembly of learned and thoughtful devotees.

 

 

 

Thank you for that. In addition, some people will never become qualified because they LIKE something else which in traditional raagaanugaa terms is "awe and reverence". (Unless Sri Hari forcibly changes somebody's heart, but that is highly suspect -- Why couldn't Sri Gauraanga change Muraari Guptaa's heart? ). These people who like what is traditionally assumed to be "awe and reverence" have been treated like garbage by some who falsely claim to be Sri Gauraanga's only true followers. This mentality will NOT help the spread of the inner desires of Sri Gauraanga i.e. manjari bhaava. Feelings of antagonism towards those who do not view the world through one's own glasses is counter-productive. People quiety but surely shy away.

 

However look at the ISKCON temples in South. They have deities like Baalaaji, Narshingha Deva, Satyabhaamaa-Rukmini-Dvaarkaadheesha in addition to traditional Gaudiya deities. Let the devotee choose. What is wrong with that? If he associates with raagaanugaa bhaktas and gets this "lobha", all glories to him, but if he does not, why call him "ugly ones associate with ugly ones". Does a devotee not even have this freedom to worship the deity in whose lotus feet he finds solace?

 

Kishalaya

[raga]

 

Thank you for that. In addition, some people will never become qualified because they LIKE something else which in traditional raagaanugaa terms is "awe and reverence". (Unless Sri Hari forcibly changes somebody's heart, but that is highly suspect -- Why couldn't Sri Gauraanga change Muraari Guptaa's heart? ). These people who like what is traditionally assumed to be "awe and reverence" have been treated like garbage by some who falsely claim to be Sri Gauraanga's only true followers. This mentality will NOT help the spread of the inner desires of Sri Gauraanga i.e. manjari bhaava. Feelings of antagonism towards those who do not view the world through one's own glasses is counter-productive. People quiety but surely shy away.

 

However look at the ISKCON temples in South. They have deities like Baalaaji, Narshingha Deva, Satyabhaamaa-Rukmini-Dvaarkaadheesha in addition to traditional Gaudiya deities. Let the devotee choose. What is wrong with that? If he associates with raagaanugaa bhaktas and gets this "lobha", all glories to him, but if he does not, why call him "ugly ones associate with ugly ones". Does a devotee not even have this freedom to worship the deity in whose lotus feet he finds solace?

 

 

I wonder if there was anything in this thread that prompted such a reply, suggesting that "ugly ones associate with ugly ones" and so forth? If yes, perhaps you could quote that in the quote-box of your response instead of what I wrote.

[Guest guest]

 

I wonder if there was anything in this thread that prompted such a reply, suggesting that "ugly ones associate with ugly ones" and so forth? If yes, perhaps you could quote that in the quote-box of your response instead of what I wrote.

 

 

 

 

I think we misunderstood the message,

They should not leave IsKcon

the ugly ones are those who left IsKcon.

 

They didn't leave for ragAnugA, but were excomunicated because of bad association (with babaji and gaudya math).

The inquisitive ones are the ugly

the loyalists are the beautiful.

 

your servant

the outcast

 

[Guest guest]

 

destroyed by the bogus form of raagaanugaas that came into fashon after Srila Prabhupaada -- shoving a guilt feeling down the throats of those devotees who are not interested in becoming gopis

[Kishalaya]

 

I wonder if there was anything in this thread that prompted such a reply, suggesting that "ugly ones associate with ugly ones" and so forth? If yes, perhaps you could quote that in the quote-box of your response instead of what I wrote.

 

 

 

My sincere apologies. I fully know I am at fault for not following the protocol. The quote can be found in the previous post and is perhaps by "anonymous".

 

Kishalaya

[Kishalaya]

 

I think we misunderstood the message,

They should not leave IsKcon

the ugly ones are those who left IsKcon.

 

They didn't leave for ragAnugA, but were excomunicated because of bad association (with babaji and gaudya math).

The inquisitive ones are the ugly

the loyalists are the beautiful.

 

 

 

What is the quote saying

 

"ISKCON presaches not the mission of Chaitanya"

 

and then

 

"The beautiful ones with the beautiful, the ugly ones with the ugly, that is harmony".

 

Now if ISKCON does not preach the mission of Chaitanya, then those who are in ISKCON are ugly.

 

Now from what you have said (or tried to infer from the saying of another) that those who left ISKCON are ugly because they had bad association -- like babaji, if the word babaji is not qualified, it takes on the meaning - all (the then present) babajis. Why would all (such) babajis be bad association?

 

Both these positions are fundamentalist bigotry.

 

Kishalaya