"They Should Not Leave Iskcon"

[Kishalaya]

 

In reply to:

--

 

destroyed by the bogus form of raagaanugaas that came into fashon after Srila Prabhupaada -- shoving a guilt feeling down the throats of those devotees who are not interested in becoming gopis

In reply to:

--

 

 

 

RagAnuga marga which Mahaprabhu came to give is

the path of spontaneous attachement for Krsna

following in the footstesps of the residents of Vraja,

(and particularly of the gopis)

 

RagAnuga referes to all rasas in Vraja,

not particularly to unnatojjvala rasa,

following Rupa Manjari.

Only rupAnugas are interested in becoming gopis.

 

Sri Caitanya CaritAmRta Madya 17.144-145

 

bhavakali vecite ami ailana kasipure

grahaka nahi, na vikaya, lana yaba ghare

 

"I have come here ,to sell My emotional ecstatic sentiments, in this city of Kasi, but I cannot find any customers. If they are not sold, I must take them back home.

 

bhari bojha lana ailana, kemane lana yaba?

alpa-svalpa-mulya paile, ethai veciba

 

"I have brought a heavy load to sell in this city. To take it back again is a very difficult job; therefore if I get but a fraction of the price, I shall sell it here in this city of Kasi."

 

 

your servant the outcast

 

 

 

 

Note: Before you read the following. I am not saying every aspiring devotee has devotion equal to the siddha mentioned below. However those who are unbiased will be able to understand.

 

CC Madhya 15:

 

137: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu then embraced Murari Gupta and began to speak about his firm faith in devotional service. This was heard by all the devotees.

 

138: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, "Previously I induced Murari Gupta again and again to be allured by Lord Krishna. I said to him, 'My dear Gupta, Lord Sri Krishna, Vrajendra-kumara, is the supreme sweetness.

 

139: "'Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the origin of all incarnations and the source of everything. He is pure transcendental love itself, and He is the reservoir of all pleasure.

 

140: "'Krishna is the reservoir of all transcendental qualities. He is like a mine of gems. He is expert at everything, very intelligent and sober, and He is the summit of all transcendental humors.

 

141: "'His character is very sweet, and His pastimes are melodious. He is expert in intelligence, and thus He enjoys all His pastimes and mellows.'

 

142: "I then requested Murari Gupta, 'Worship Krishna and take shelter of Him. But for His service, nothing appeals to the mind.'

 

143: "In this way, he heard from Me again and again. By My influence, his mind was a little converted.

 

144: "Murari Gupta then replied, 'I am Your servant and Your order-carrier. I have no independent existence.'

 

145: "After this, Murari Gupta went home and spent the whole night thinking how he would have to give up the association of Raghunatha, Lord Ramacandra. Thus he was overwhelmed.

 

146: "Murari Gupta then began to pray at the lotus feet of Lord Ramacandra. He prayed that death would come that night because it was not possible for him to give up the service of the lotus feet of Raghunatha.

 

147: "Thus Murari Gupta cried the entire night. There was no rest for his mind; therefore he could not sleep but stayed awake the entire night.

 

148: "In the morning Murari Gupta came to see Me. Catching hold of My feet and crying, he submitted an appeal.

 

149: "Murari Gupta said, 'I have sold my head unto the lotus feet of Raghunatha. I cannot withdraw my head, for that would give me too much pain.

 

150: "'It is not possible for me to give up the service of Raghunatha's lotus feet. At the same time, if I do not do so I shall break Your order. What can I do?'

 

151: "In this way Murari Gupta appealed to Me, saying, 'You are all-merciful, so kindly grant me this mercy: Let me die before You so that all my doubts will be finished.'

 

152: "Hearing this, I became very happy. I then raised Murari Gupta and embraced him.

 

153: "I said to him, 'All glories to you, Murari Gupta! Your method of worship is very firmly fixed-so much so that even upon My request your mind did not turn.

 

154: "'The servitor must have love and affection for the lotus feet of the Lord exactly like this. Even if the Lord wants separation, a devotee cannot abandon the shelter of His lotus feet.

 

PURPORT

The word prabhu, or master, indicates that the Lord is to be continuously served by His devotee. The original prabhu is the Lord, Sri Krishna. Nonetheless, there are many devotees attached to Lord Ramacandra, and Murari Gupta is a vivid example of such unalloyed devotion. He never agreed to give up Lord Ramacandra's worship, not even upon Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's request. Such is the chastity of devotional service, as stated in the Antya-lila of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta (4.46-47):

sei bhakta dhanya, ye na chade prabhura carana

sei prabhu dhanya, ye na chade nija-jana

durdaive sevaka yadi yaya anya sthane

sei thakura dhanya tare cule dhari' ane

In a firm relationship with the Lord, the devotee does not give up the Lord's service under any circumstance. As far as the Lord Himself is concerned, if the devotee chooses to leave, the Lord brings him back again, dragging him by the hair.

 

155: "'Just to test your firm faith in your Lord, I requested you again and again to change your worship from Lord Ramacandra to Krishna.'

 

156: "In this way, I congratulated Murari Gupta, saying, 'Indeed, you are the incarnation of Hanuman. Consequently you are the eternal servant of Lord Ramacandra. Why should you give up the worship of Lord Ramacandra and His lotus feet?'"

 

157: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu continued, "I accept this Murari Gupta as My life and soul. When I hear of his humility, it perturbs My very life."

 

Kishalaya

[Guest guest]

 

155: "'Just to test your firm faith in your Lord, I requested you again and again to change your worship from Lord Ramacandra to Krishna.'

 

156: "In this way, I congratulated Murari Gupta, saying, 'Indeed, you are the incarnation of Hanuman. Consequently you are the eternal servant of Lord Ramacandra. Why should you give up the worship of Lord Ramacandra and His lotus feet?'"

 

157: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu continued, "I accept this Murari Gupta as My life and soul. When I hear of his humility, it perturbs My very life."

 

 

 

 

You are right of course,

but Murari Gupta is rather the exception.

And even in this example we can see that Mahaprabhu

came to teach Radha Krsna conjugal.

Nonetheless he accepted all devotees as His own.

 

RagAnuga marga which Mahaprabhu came to give is

the path of spontaneous attachement for Krsna

following in the footstesps of the residents of Vraja,

(and particularly of the gopis)

 

RagAnuga referes to all rasas in Vraja,

not particularly to unnatojjvala rasa,

following Rupa Manjari.

Only rupAnugas are interested in becoming gopis.

 

Sri Caitanya CaritAmRta Madya 17.144-145

 

bhavakali vecite ami ailana kasipure

grahaka nahi, na vikaya, lana yaba ghare

 

"I have come here ,to sell My emotional ecstatic sentiments, in this city of Kasi, but I cannot find any customers. If they are not sold, I must take them back home.

 

bhari bojha lana ailana, kemane lana yaba?

alpa-svalpa-mulya paile, ethai veciba

 

"I have brought a heavy load to sell in this city. To take it back again is a very difficult job; therefore if I get but a fraction of the price, I shall sell it here in this city of Kasi."

 

 

your servant the outcast

[Guest guest]

You missed some opinions that are IsKcon offensive and should be deleted.

Only for your information.

I beg the administrator to delete them,

although I found them genuine,

but too offensive.

 

 

"ISKCON preaches not the mission of Chaitanya"

 

 

In reply to: --

 

Since ISKCON primarily focuses on preaching to the masses, and indeed their preaching is also rather basic to the community of devotees, through empirical means it is hard to directly verify that they are in fact flooding the whole world in raga-marga bhakti.

 

--

 

They preach only basics.

Never pointing on Radha Krsna. I experienced, in all Iskcon temples I was, that

it is even forbidden to talk about Radha Krsna.

As qHari said, first you should be liberated, you are told.

 

In reply to:

--

 

I never took it that the original guest was attacking Srila Prabhupada. Only the Iskcon institution, the 2003 version. When he was asking for quotes from the Caitanya Caritamrita, I took it that he meant Srila Prabhupada's epic version, which would indicate to me that said guest(1001) is definitely favorable towards Srila Prabhupada and probably considers him his siksa Guru. I think most of us can see the many changes/deviations which Iskcon has undergone over the decades since Srila Prabhupada's Disappearance, in which most sincere Temple devotees have been driven/coerced out of their Father's/Grandfather's institution. As gHari said, there's no need to speculate about the teachings of present-day Iskcon, one can discover quite easily via attending Bhagavatam classes and associating with the few devotees who are remaining in the Temples.

 

--

 

Srila Bhakti Vedanta Svami Prabhupada meant well wanting to keep the unity of his institution, thinking that it should not happen as in Gaudya Math.

Instead of it the IsKcon devotees got a GBC totalitarian system, and the heart of bhakti which is sadhu sanga was replaced by some bhaktas sanga, which was named sadhu sanga.

In this connection IsKcon has a good chance to become a second Vatikan.

and it will never give the real thing, Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to give.

They even will preach against it. (they preach even now against it).

 

 

 

your servant

the outcast

[raga]

The person writing as "outcaste", "a friend", "the neophyte", and so forth, should kindly identify himself. The style of writing appears rather identical to a follower of Narayan Maharaj called Anadi who used to post as a registered member until one day one of his senior godbrothers chastised him for his inappropriate preaching.

 

Our unidentified guest, please answer yes or no:

 

Are you the same person as the member who posted as Anadi?

[gHari]

I was a real fan of his. I can't imagine him writing these things here.