Srila Gour Govinda Swami And Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

[Guest guest]

Srila Gour Govinda Swami And Sripad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja-

BY MADHAVANANDA DAS

There have been some articles published recently concerning our revered guru-.-padma Srila Gour Govinda Swami, and many devotees have approached us for clarification. Finding it necessary to respond publicly in order to uphold the prestige of our Guru Maharaja, we therefore take the dust of the lotus feet of all the Vaishnavas, and with straw in our teeth offer the following information. The questions we have been asked are:

 

Q1: Some devotees are saying that Srila Gour Govinda Swami had a meeting with Sripad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja. Others are saying that they never met. What is the actual history?

 

Q2: We have also been told that Srila Gour Govinda Swami instructed some of his disciples that after his disappearance they should take shelter of Sripad Narayana Maharaja. Is this a fact?

 

Q3: Some devotees are saying that Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja has now merged into the body of Sripad Narayana Maharaja. Have you found any justification for such a statement?

 

Regarding the first question, we have noted that there are widely conflicting accounts as to when the alleged meeting took place, where it happened, who was there, and what went on. To investigate, we interviewed the devotees who were closest to our Guru Maharaja at the various reported times of the supposed meeting (1993, 1994 and 1995 according to different versions). We also went over our Guru Maharaja's diaries from those periods (in which he daily recorded details about all of his activities), we spoke to his personal servants, and we listened to the tapes from those periods. From these authoritative sources, to this day we have not been able to substantiate any part of any of the various stories.

 

But in any case, even if such a meeting had occurred, we would not consider it relevant. Our Guru Maharaja may have met many people. The sastric injunction (Bhag. 10.33.30) is that a great personality may do many things, but we should not imitate him, naitat samacarej jatu manasapi hy anisvarah. Rather than imitate we should follow his instructions, and since our Guru Maharaja never mentioned the meeting to any of us we do not consider it to be a very relevant fact in our spiritual lives.

 

Regarding the second question, we have spoken to nearly every disciple of our Guru Maharaja, and not a single one has reported that he or she was told by him to go for shelter to Sripad Narayana Maharaja. The only comments we have found from our Guru Maharaja regarding this issue have been ones like the following. We quote them unedited, with clarifying explanations in brackets. The first is from April 1995:

 

They [some senior devotees] are going to Narayana Maharaja. They came to me. I said, "You committed wrong. They [others in general] cannot understand these things, so they [the activities] create disturbance." They [some senior devotees] said at last, "Yes. What you say is true." Last time at the end of GBC meeting they came to me and said, "Yes, Maharaja. What you have said is true." I said, "I told you in the beginning you committed wrong. We are in a society. Some cannot understand. So if you want to take siksa from an advanced devotee, do it secretly, don't expose it." But they exposed. The people cannot understand because this question of adhikara is there. They have no adhikara, how can they understand rasika-bhakti? Raganuga-bhakti? "If you are doing you should do it secretly. Nobody should know it. But you didn't do it secretly. Publicly you did, so these things [disturbances] come, and it is quite natural." At last they said, "What you have said is correct." [Darsana with Srila Gour Govinda Swami 18/4/95]

 

Furthermore, from the tapes of our Guru Maharaja and from the devotees who lived with him we find a very clear indication that he was always strongly against devotees leaving the mission of his guru, Srila Prabhupada. He tolerated and served in ISKCON out of devotion to Srila Prabhupada, not out of any mundane party spirit or institutional fanaticism. He always saw ISKCON as the seva/sanga of Srila Prabhupada. The following excerpt from an evening darsana in 1989 is typical of his attitude on this subject:

 

Parabrahma Das: You said we should always seek the association of advanced devotees. When Srila Prabhupada left the planet some of his disciples took shelter of....

 

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: Thereby they committed a mistake.

 

PD: Who committed a mistake?

 

SGGS: They left Prabhupada's mission. For the clarification of philosophical doubt or [to] accept some siksa from him [one may visit]. But why do you leave?

 

PD: Some people took shelter of ... and naturally because he was giving some instruction they became attached to him, and also accepted him as guru, siksa-guru. But because of this it seems that [some of the leaders of] our society [iSKCON] rejected them rather than they rejected our society, in some cases.

 

SGGS: Why should they leave ISKCON?

 

PD: Some people... I spoke to one devotee who had taken shelter of... and he said that his life was made very difficult within ISKCON and he could no longer preach, he was so restricted. Therefore in order to preach he left ISKCON.

 

SGGS: What difficulty is there! Preaching the mission of Gauranga Mahaprabhu? Mahaprabhu says, "I will help you... I assure you I’ll protect you, I'll help you. You'll never be affected by maya." [if] you have no faith in Gauranga Mahaprabhu, then you'll be put into difficulties. Understand? They have no faith in Gauranga Mahaprabhu, so they faced difficulties. Don't be afraid of problems. Krishna is there. His representative, guru is there. They are always with you. Do you understand? They are always prepared to help you. And these dangers, these problems, difficulties, will help you to become fixed. Do you understand? To become fixed. So they [the problems] are welcome. [20/11/89 BBSR]

 

As far as the third question is concerned, even if such an event as a departed Vaishnava merging into the body of another Vaishnava is ontologically possible, as tiny baddha-jivas we have no ability to perceive such events, and hence we could only speculate about the authenticity of the statement. However, if it were true that our Guru Maharaja entered the body of Narayana Maharaja then it would be reasonable to assume that the teachings of Sripad Narayana Maharaja would not differ in any significant way from those of our Gurudeva. We have found that in most areas Sripad Narayana Maharaja speaks in a similar way to our Gurudeva. Yet we have also found some differences we consider significant. To cite one of several differences: Iiiin the Rays of the Harmonist magazine Vol. III 1999, in an article entitled "Vrsabhanu-Nandini", Sripad Narayana Maharaja describes Puri Dhama as being equivalent to Dwarka and on a spiritual platform less than Vrindavan and Nabadwip. He describes the pastimes of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in Puri as being full of opulence and on a lower level than His pastimes in Nabadwip.

 

Our Guru Maharaja's conception is quite different. Quoting from Vaisnava-tantra and Srila Sanatana Gosvami's Brhad-bhagavatamrta, he repeatedly established that Puri is non-different from Vrindavan. He also taught that Mahaprabhu's pastimes in Puri were the topmost part of gaura-lila. We quote from The Embankment of Separation:

 

"This lila [of Mahaprabhu] is like an unlimited ocean. That ocean swells up, and the topmost swelling is there in Purusottama Ksetra [Jagannatha Puri] because Mahaprabhu manifested His antya-lila in Jagannatha Puri Dhama." (Pocket edition p.48-49)

 

"Jagannatha Puri Dhama is known as Sri Ksetra. Sri Devi is the svarupa-sakti, Krishna's internal potency. Therefore, that dhama which is glorified by the presence of the sri-sakti is known as Sri Ksetra. Sri means sarva-laksmi mayi amsini radhika, Srimati Radhika, Who is the source of all saktis. ... Therefore, those who are followers or devotees of madhurya-rasa can see that Sri Ksetra is the ksetra in which Radharani's madhurya-rasa is manifested. Only such madhurya-rasa bhaktas can see it; others cannot. That is why Jagannatha Puri is known as Sri Ksetra." (Pocket edition p.78)

 

The topic of Puri dhama was very dear to our Guru Maharaja, so much so that in 1996 while describing the esoteric non-different nature of Puri and Vrindavan he displayed various symptoms of ecstasy and left his body.

 

This information should be sufficient to resolve any doubts in the minds and hearts of the devotees. Our purpose in presenting it is not to quarrel with anyone, we have simply tried to present the facts as we have found them in an honest way. In presenting this topic if we have somehow unintentionally disappointed or offended anyone we beg their forgiveness. As Maharaja Rahugana said to Jada Bharata:

 

naham visanke sura-raja-vajran

na tryaksa-sulan na yamasya dandat

nagny-arka-somanila-vittapastrac

chanke bhrsam brahma-kulavamanat

 

"My dear sir, I am not at all afraid of the thunderbolt of King Indra, nor am I afraid of the serpentine, piercing, trident of Lord Siva. I do not care about the punishment of Yamaraja, the superintendent of death, nor am I afraid of fire, scorching sun, moon, wind, nor the weapons of Kuvera. Yet I am afraid of offending a brahmana. I am very much afraid of this." Bhag. 5.10.17

 

Wholehearted support and agreement for the publication of this article has been offered by the following senior disciples of Srila Gour Govinda Swami: Srimat Sacinandana Das; Srimad Atmarama Das; and Srimac Caitanya Candra Das.

 

[Guest guest]

Gurudeva sasys:"No hypocrisy, no duplicity, no politics."

 

anadi krsna dasa

 

PS

Please forgive me that I read it.

It has some taste of politics.

 

[Guest guest]

IS THERE SUCH A THING AS SPIRITUAL POLITICS AND DIPLOMACY?? WHO CAN KNOW THE WILL OR THE MIND OF THE LORD OR THE LORD'S PURE DEVOTEES?IS THIS AN EXAMPLE OF TRANSCENDENTAL FRAUD AND CHEATING IN ORDER TO SEPARATE THOSE TRUE DISCIPLES AND THOSE CROOKED DISCIPLES WHO WANT THINGS CHEAP BY FOLLOWING A GURU WHO GIVES VANCANA ;i.e.,TO THOSE WHO ARE FULL OF THEMSELVES? OM TAT .

[anadi]

I know Radhanath das Prabhu personally,

last year in Vraja mandala Parikrama and

this year in Germany I had his personal association,

maybe he could remember me.

 

Some of his comments on the subject you put on

 

Offering pranam to the lotus feet of Hari, Guru and

> Vaisnavas, I wish to submit for their pleasure, this

> brief summary of my experience with Srila Gour

> Govinda Maharaja, and his transcendental

> relationship with Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana

> Maharaja.

>

> I had the good fortune to stay with Srila Gour

> Govinda Maharaja almost continuously from mid 1994

> up until his departure in early 1996. Several

> times, the topic of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana

> Maharaja was raised.

>

> In June and July 1995, I was with a group of his

> disciples and well wishers who were collecting funds

> in Singapore and Malaysia for the completion of the

> Bhubaneswar project. While in Kuala Lampur, I had

> the good fortune to meet two disciples of Srila

> Prabhupada, who were at that time inspired by the

> teachings of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

> and were serving him there. I was impressed by

> their devotion and faith in him.

>

> After some weeks, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja

> arrived in Singapore, en route to America for his

> preaching tour. At that time he was staying in a

> hotel, so we all got the chance to get his darshans

> during his stay.

>

> At the end of his class, I asked: "Srila Gurudeva,

> many people are leaving Iskcon and going to Srila

> Narayana Maharaja, what is your opinion of that?"

> He immediately took on a very grave tone, and

> pointing his finger at me, he loudly exclaimed:

> "What is the meaning of Iskcon, and who is a member

> of Iskcon? Iskcon means the Internacional Society

> for Krishna Consciousness, and that devotee who is

> 100% Krishna conscious, he is a true and actual

> member of this society. You are thinking Iskcon and

> non-Iskcon, but this has no place in vaisnavism. If

> you get the chance for his association, you should

> definitely run there."

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

And the moon is made of green cheese.

[anadi]

And the moon is made of green cheese.

 

 

This kind of answer disqualifies one.

Maybe what you wrote was only politics,

and really cheating the audience.

 

If you are a sincere devotee I challenge you

To give me your phone number, or your email address

so that you get in contact with Radhanatha dasa Prabhu.

 

In one month gurudeva comes to Holland, and maybe I meet

Radhanath das Prabhu again, but I hope that next week I cant sent you his email or phone number.

 

If you don't want to do it, it means that you are a dubious person.

So I won't address you anymore personally.

[Guest guest]

I am only interested in spiritual life and not in trying to prove myself all knowing ,superior or the one who has the best guru.I am simply following my gurudeva's instuctions in this matter.And I don't need to engage in a "challege"debate to prove my spiritual master is more advanced than yours.How childish can you get.?When will you start your bhajan?

[Mxyzptlk]

Unwittingly, by your own admission, you are indeed a cheater, Gopaldas. Pitting one pure devotee against another during these trying times when we so desparately need some harmony amongst the Vaishnava groups is sheer madness. Srila Narayana Maharaja considers Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja as a pure devotee. According to many of Srila Gour Govinda Swami's disciples, Srila Narayana Maharaja is an oasis of nectar. As has often been stated here, a disciple should be allowed to find his or her guru (diksha or siksha) according to their inclination, their sukriti, adhikara, and shraddha. Not by legislation from the GBC. Nearly every devotee who has taken siksha from Srila Narayana Maharaja (who was previously in Iskcon) desired to remain in Iskcon. But, the GBC politicians would not allow it. They gave ultimatums, even when devotees were only seeing Srila Maharaja once a year, or not even that, but simply reading some of his books. As a result, many hundreds of devotees have been banned from Iskcon. If you're upset because "They should not leave Iskcon", then take it up with the GBC personnel, as they are the ones forcing devotees to leave against their will. If you are unable to see the obvious, then perhaps it would be wise for you to read Kundali's series of books entitled: "Our Mission", which is available online I believe.

 

Anadi prabhu: I know that you are sincere and wishing to preach on behalf of Srila Gurudeva. However, you have not yet learned to preach according to the mood of the audience. I for one would never read a single one of the lectures you post here, simply because offenders like Shiva and others follow behind like Dvivida Gorilla and urinate on the pure hari-katha, thus spoiling the whole thing. I have mentioned your preaching to senior devotees and how you are committing great offenses by preaching to faithless people who simply follow behind and commit horrific offenses. I hope you are in Germany when Srila Gurudeva arrives there because someone will be speaking to you about your lack of judgement in posting these lectures and trying to discuss higher topics with those who are not interested. You should only discuss these things with like-minded devotees, otherwise you come across as if you are trying to show off your knowledge, as Bhabru pointed out. I have discussed your preaching with senior devotees and they have informed that now that Srila Narayana Maharaja's mission has become so very large, there are people out there like yourself who are possessed of a fanatical nature. Someone named Satyaraja did what you are doing for a couple of years, and after innumerable offenses, he fell down, even abandoned his guru, and joined the sahajiya/babaji camp as a result. Please cease and desist from preaching elevated topics which are not meant for devotees in general, especially when you are unable to defend Srila Gurudeva and his words. Leave these types of discussions to the scholars such as Madhava Maharaja and Aranya Maharaja. You will notice however that they do not preach on this forum. Why commit offenses in this way? Do you not see what you are doing? You are not representing Srila Narayana Maharaja by discussing these topics and allowing others to follow behind you like maggots, thereby spoiling everything. This is nonsense. I know you mean well. But, this is NOT the audience for these types of topics. Most of these people here have already been brainwashed by the GBC's position papers against Srila Gurudeva, and they reject him from the outset. What will be accomplished by preaching to faithless people? You simply encourage them to commit offenses and Vaishnava ninda, and you are unable to defeat this ninda nor are you able to put a stop to it. The only solution is to preach to like-minded devotees, and I suspect that you will not find any here.

 

Please forgive any offenses in what I've said. I am merely passing along good advice which I have heard from very very senior disciples of Srila Narayana Maharaja.

 

Thankyou.

[anadi]

I am only interested in spiritual life and not in trying to prove myself all knowing ,superior or the one who has the best guru.I am simply following my gurudeva's instuctions in this matter.And I don't need to engage in a "challege"debate to prove my spiritual master is more advanced than yours .How childish can you get.?When will you start your bhajan?

 

 

 

I challanged that person to be sincere and directly have contact with Radhanath das Prabhu.

Instead of it he twisted my words and said

"a "challege"debate to prove my spiritual master is more advanced than yours "

and by this twisting of words showing the same character as shiva.

 

may guru, gaura and Sri Sri Radha Vinodha Bihari

pour their mercy on us

 

PS

I don't preach to them, I preach to myself.

I am not at all attached to any outer results.

[Mxyzptlk]

I don't preach to them, I preach to myself.

I am not at all attached to any outer results.

 

Prabhu, you should be *very* concerned when people are committing serious offenses on a daily basis due to your preaching. You should NOT be detached when people speak ill of a great Acarya, especially your own Gurudeva. Since you are unable to stop this steady flow of offenses by defeating your opponents in debate, the only solution is to stop renewing these discussions altogether. Most of of the topics you are discussing here are not suitable for this type of environment. You should not preach to those who are faithless, as that is an offense to the holy name, what to speak of a pure Vaishnava who happens to be your own Guru. You are not attached???

 

I suspect it will be nearly impossible for you to stop this sort of preaching, just as it was for Satyaraja. Even his own Godsister, Badra dasi from Australia strongly chastised him a couple of years ago on the VNN forums and even mentioned that Jadurani dasi did not approve of such preaching of higher topics on these types of discussion boards. Still, he could not follow the advice of his Godsister and as a result, his "preaching" finally came to a halt of it's own accord when he was banned. I doubt that you will be banned, being that you are a gentleman. That is all the more reason why it is important that you consider these things carefully. If you have any doubts, please show the threads you have initiated here, all of them, along with the offensive replies by Shiva, Vaishnava108 das and others, to the senior devotees such as Vrajanatha prabhu and others, and then let them decide whether it is good that you are instigating so much controversy and the ensuing offenses being spewed forth by those who are brainwashed by the GBC.

 

Thankyou and dandavat pranams.

[anadi]

What will be accomplished by preaching to faithless people? You simply encourage them to commit offenses and Vaishnava ninda, and you are unable to defeat this ninda nor are you able to put a stop to it.

 

 

They have already commited these offenses.

And nobody can stop them.

 

I presented only basics of tattva and rasa from Caitanya Catritamrita, Jaiva Dharma, Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu Bhindu

and some lectures of Gurudeva.

 

As I talked to Sripad Aranya Maharaja this year in Germany he told me I can post here, and there is no need to defeat somebody's evil comments.

Just post pure vaisnavism.

As you said most of them, but not all are "brain washed".

[Mxyzptlk]

As I talked to Sripad Aranya Maharaja this year in Germany he told me I can post here, and there is no need to defeat somebody's evil comments.

 

Well, I wonder what he would say if he actually read these threads which you have started and are renewing on a daily basis. Blasphemy and offenses should never be tolerated. I have seen you ask others to apologize for their offenses, but they refuse to do so. You know full well that we should not stay in that place where offenses are being committed. Nor should we preach in such a way that we inspire others to commit offenses. As I mentioned, who would want to read the hari-katha you are posting if after every post someone is following along like Dvivida Gorilla and passing urine. That spoils everything. All of these lectures are online, perhaps you can provide links so that those who are interested may read them without being interrupted by a constant barrage of offenses.

 

Should I email these threads to Sripad Aranya Maharaja so that he can see for himself what you are doing here? These topics may seem "basic" to you, but clearly they are not basic to many of the other readers here, as evidenced by the controversy and the ninda against Srila Narayana Maharaja. Do you think Sripad Aranya Maharaja would approve of all this ninda on a public internet forum such as this? I doubt that you have properly represented to Maharaja just exactly what it is that you are doing here. Show him the threads, along with the replies you've been getting, then see what he says. Okay?

 

Thankyou. Dandavat pranams.

[anadi]

I think you are right.

I stop here my posting to this forum.

 

dandavat pranam

[Vaishnava_das108]

 

That is all the more reason why it is important that you consider these things carefully. If you have any doubts, please show the threads you have initiated here, all of them, along with the offensive replies by Shiva, Vaishnava108 das and others, to the senior devotees such as Vrajanatha prabhu and others, and then let them decide whether it is good that you are instigating so much controversy and the ensuing offenses being spewed forth by those who are brainwashed by the GBC.

 

 

Huh, prabhu? What did I do or say? I haven't mentioned a single word in this topic, so where is my "offensive reply" ?

[Mxyzptlk]

As it should be obvious from the quote in your post wherein I said to Anadi prabhu: "If you have any doubts, please show the threads you have initiated here, all of them, along with the offensive replies by Shiva, Vaishnava108 das and others, to the senior devotees such as Vrajanatha prabhu and others....", I was talking about other threads, threads which Anadi prabhu started, not this particular thread. I would rather not repeat the offensive statement you made in one of those threads, if that's okay. Besides, given your attitude towards Srila Nayarana Maharaja, I am sure that you would not consider it offensive anyway, hence I see no real need to debate the issue. If you want to play innocent, that's fine, you can have the last word.

[Guest guest]

 

 

what a load of gibberish.

 

you claim injury,but in reality you are being cleansed,

or as Srila prabhupada would say "Cleensed".

 

you think you are in the highest realm of bhakti

and disseminating that.

 

that is only your ego talking to you, claiming that

the lowly outsiders do not understand your glorious position and devotion, that us lowly aparadhis should

listen to your conceptions and the highest reality

you have to offer, not argue with you, and claim that what you speak is nothing more then polytheistic neophyte

misguided self important drivel.

 

what is the big deal ?

 

the facts are the facts, when you try and act like the highest most intimate associate of Sri Caitanya with

nothing to show for it, and run around the world exclaiming your superiority to one and all,from the

man on the street to vaisnavas many years your senior,

all you do is cause a disturbance.

 

you are not serving Bhakti devi,you are trying to use Bhakti devi to serve you.

 

you are trying to use Bhakti Devi and make Her

your servant, insisting that she accept you

in the way that you desire, and then you attempt to

convince others on that path.

 

that is not service, that is wanting to be served,

real service is not done for the servant,it is not done for

the enhancement of the servants position, it is done

to please the served, to please the beloved.

 

all of your exclamations of "higher then thou" because

you want to be a gopi ,is foolishness.

 

that is not Bhakti,bhakti is selfless giving to the beloved without expectation of reward,doen out of the desire

to please the beloved ,without any thought of selfish gain,

that is real love.

 

not the imitation of emotions, or the imitation of anything or anyone, nor is it based on gaining what you desire for your enjoyment, engaging in bhakti practice for attainment

of position so you can enjoy that position,is not

suddha bhakti, it is not raganuga, it is the neophyte stage, bhakti done for liberation.

 

this is what you preach, that you are giving a superior

reality then the rest of the Vaisnavas, giving gopi

bhava, giving rasika bhava, when in fact that is

exactly what you are not doing.

 

that reality you do not even have a clue about,

and your attempts to use that lure for fame and position by preaching to the ignorant and inexperienced

your superior "siddhanta" , is hurting others not helping them, causing mis understanding ,not understanding,

and creating polytheism in place of mono theism.

 

when these things are pointed out you take offense,

"how dare they ?" you exclaim.

 

it's time to see the real situation, the real

problem, and the real solution.

 

[Guest guest]

If one finds a devottee that inspirit devotion to Shree Shree Radha Krishna yes they should run to allways be with that devottee.

I have allways found that Srila Prabhupada is that resident of Vrindaban I hear from when I hear other respected saintly person speak as His Divine Grace has spoken maginfiying Srila Prabhupada to me I see it was a great blessing.

Out of great campassion these devottees serve Lord Goura Nitai to save us.

We all must go where our heart leads us or this is unatural.

ISKCON is unverisal beyound afew samll conteints or even this planet.

The worlds is suffering only because of the lack of Krishna Consciousness.

Krishna Consciousness is the only medication

Jaya Goura Niati

your servant

Pita das

[Guest guest]

(sorry, I'm at work and not logged in, but this is mxyzptlk.)

 

"what a load of gibberish."

 

No doubt you perceive things in this way. You are completely irrational, hence I advised Anadi prabhu to discontinue posting lectures from Srila Narayana Maharaja, being that you seem to have an offensive nature and are unwilling to debate issues without committing offenses against someone's treasured Gurudeva.

 

"you claim injury,but in reality you are being cleansed,

or as Srila prabhupada would say "Cleensed"."

 

Talk about gibberish. I haven't claimed injury or any such thing. As far as being "cleansed", I do know that I feel much cleaner when I avoid reading your posts. If you think that you are representing Srila Prabhupada, you are, how shall I say...... in deep illusion?

 

"you think you are in the highest realm of bhakti

and disseminating that."

 

More gibberish. LIes in fact. I do not think any such thing. Nor am I disseminating the "highest realm of bhakti." Show me one post, even one, where I ever preached such a thing. Quite the opposite, I have advised Anadi prabhu to *NOT* preach higher topics, or for that matter, any topics higher or lower, which Srila Narayana Maharaja has given. What kind of nonsense are you speaking here? Did you not read a single word I wrote to Anadi prabhu?

 

Sheer madness.

 

"that is only your ego talking to you, claiming that the lowly outsiders do not understand your glorious position and devotion, that us lowly aparadhis should listen to your conceptions and the highest reality..." (snip)

 

Wow. And you dare to represent Srila Prabhupada's mood while uttering such crazy nonsense? For the record,I have never claimed to be situated in a "glorious position". Nor do I even consider myself to be in such a situation. Nor do I expect others to perceive me in that way. Your attempts at passing judgement on people you don't even know based upon words I have never spoken is bhogus, to put it mildly.

 

I have snipped the rest because you sir, are not a gentleman. You are incapable of debating issues without committing Vaishnava aparadha. This is why I have requested Anadi prabhu to discontinue. If anything, you should be happy! But no, you seem to be addicted to committing offenses by speaking harshly, irrationally, and with utter contempt towards those you are debating with, let alone their Guru.

 

Cheer up! Now you can find other topics to discuss which will no doubt be much more to your liking.

[Guest guest]

Dear Pita prabhu,

 

Thankyou for the kind words and for adding some semblance of sanity to this discussion. I very much appreciate your

words of wisdom.

 

Dandavat pranams.

 

mxyz

[Guest guest]

Please don't use Srila Prabhupada's name.

From where you got the idea that Shiva is trying to represent Srila Prabhupada. Are you mad?

[Mxyzptlk]

"Please don't use Srila Prabhupada's name."

 

Please give me a good reason why you have made such an outrageous request. Srila Prabhupada is my Gurudeva. I was personally initiated by him. I believe I have every right to utter his name. Why are you singling me out not to use his name while others are allowed to do so? You obviously have an agenda of some sort, and it appears that it is aligned with Shiva's, why else would you speak such nonsense? And pray tell, how long will this madness continue?

 

"From where you got the idea that Shiva is trying to represent Srila Prabhupada. Are you mad?"

 

I don't think so. Are you? If he's not trying to represent Srila Prabhupada, (via the GBC and their position papers against Srila Narayana Maharaja), then I can only speculate. The vast majority of devotees who speak like Shiva are those who have been brainwashed by reading the GBC's propaganda papers. On the other hand, I have seen Shiva quote from Tripurari Maharaja before, but I *REFUSE* to believe that he is representing Maharaja, as I respect the Maharaja. If you are in the know on these matters, perhaps you could enlighten us? That would be far more helpful to this discussion rather than playing guessing games, don't you think? Will you be so kind as to enlighten us? Or do you simply wish to take wild, absurd potshots as an anonymous guest sniper?

[Guest guest]

 

Shiva is stupid and evil minded.

Kailasa is foolish but sincere.

Gopaldas is intelligent and evil minded.

Vaisnava 108 das is intelligent and was evil minded.

 

So the first two will continue to be more offensive

that this extremely offensive post.

 

Just as the anger of a diseased person is pardonable,

the improper behaviour of the ignorant should also be excused.

This attitude is known as mercy.

[Guest guest]

Ohe! Vaisnava Thakura

 

O worshipable Vaisnava Thakura!

Ocean of mercy!

Be merciful upon this servant and giving me with the shade of your feet, purifiy me.

I am taking hold of your lotus feet.

 

Help me subdue the six urges, and purify my six faults,

Please bestow upon me the six qualities of a devotee, and

Offer me the six kinds of devotional association.

I am sitting in your association, hoping to receive this.