Is it ok to see krishna in other things, even inappropriate ones?

[Guest guest]

Today, i woke up thinking about krishna, I don't know why, don't ask me..., but from that time on, I couldn't stop but see krishna in everything. I saw krishna as a brush, as soap, as calculus, as numbers , as english literature. I even saw krishna in Commodes. This was a little problematic, because i couldn't stop seeing krishna in even the grossest like in commodes and in bathrooms etc.

 

I know seeing krishna in everything is good, but is seeing krishna in commodes etc good or am I offending something.

Answer this question please, it will release this guilt that has gotten into the depths of my soul!

[Krishna69]

Hi..Its fine and absolutely fine if you see Shree Krishna everywhere. I keep chanting His name even while I take bath or clean up myself. God is not someone cruel to punish as many people portray especially when we keep thinking about Him all the time irrespective of time and place. Its a wrong concept to feel that GOD will punish or the act will displease Him to think of Him in every thing we do and see.

Regards

Shyam

[theist]

Yes guest Krsna is everywhere. The concept of appropriate or in appropiate is relative. The stool that we are repulsed at is dinner to the hog. Hey, Krsna is even in your brain.

 

So don't feel guilty. Your realization is a high one. But still to keep proper human etiquette refrain from turning your toilet into an altar.

 

One and different you know.

[Guest guest]

for the neophyte devotee it is best not to try and see Krishna in everything,it can cause confusion, like you experience.

 

there needs to be education,a gradual raising of the mind

in knowledge from and about Krishna.

 

At first we are advised to see Krishna in the guru and shastra,as we advance we can see Krishna in all things.

 

But don't make the mistake of thinking that you are qualified to think yourself on the higher platform

prematurely, at that stage the mind has been prepared

for understanding the difference in quality between

God's material energy and and God.

 

this world is the material energy of God, god is present

in all things and controlling all things, but focusing

your mind on that is not needed or recommended for the

untrained and uneducated, it will lead to tiresome

attempts to reconcile what you think is going on in your mind as being good or bad,offensive or righteous,

and so on.

 

that is for the more advanced sadhaka, for him the mind itself is recognized to be different then him/her self,

and that person does not identify with the thoughts

of the mind.

 

so yes God is all, but God and God's personality are two

different things, like the difference between your personality and your body.

 

 

God is not a prude, so don't worry about that, in fact God is quite funny.

 

 

[Krishna69]

Is there any thing like prematured thinking when it comes to realising Krishna. I guess and feel that none can claim that they have attained the matured stage because a person who has actually attained that matured stage will never talk about HIM, bur would rather live as what He asked in the principles of GITA. If that individual is an executive, he will be the best executive, if he give up the worldly comforts for sanyasa he will not even sit on flower arranged chairs even for the sake of people who liked him and accepted him as guru. One individual whom I feel attained that stage of self realization was only Ramana Maharishi of Thiruvannamalai in tamil nadu, India, who took sanyasa and always walked with his bare foot everywhere, was wearing only a langot (that he did because he did not want to be an eye sore for common people) never . on any arranged chairs decorated with flowers or went by vehicles (note that he too lived in the 20th century) like what the present day sanyasis do.

Shyam

[Guest guest]

well for one thing, I always thought that in Bhakthi there is not much to learn, for learning comes up from the love for Krishna. isn't that so? so how can one be educated enough to feel something or uneducated enough to be uneligible for something?

 

- enlightened

[theist]

Knowledge leads to renuciation, detachment from the false conceptions of life and false goals. Knowledge also will reveal our true position in relation to God and this world. So this type of knowledge is necessary.

 

We cannot love illusion and truth at the same time. Knowledge forms the basis for our making a proper choice.

 

Bhakti is not a sentimental path. Nor is it dry of emotion like jnana-yoga.

[Krishna69]

I am giving my answer from whatever I have understood and following GITA in my life. You need not learn anything from anyone as long as you keep your mind and body pure and be helpful to others in your best possible way. You will see Krishna everywhere. There is no need to read hundreds of slokas of Gita to realise Shree Krishna. There are millions of people in this world living in places where there is not much beliefs in religion or GOD especially in some of the communist countries. Just because they dont GITA or Bible that does not mean they are not conditioned souls. They are also protected by the same GOD even if they realise HIM Or not. He gives HIS dharshan to them in a different form in the way they wish which we may not know. Being kind to all, humble, egoless, performing your duties with sincerity to which you are commited to, say if you are a teacher be a good teacher without any partiality to anyone, if a good nurse or a doctor, be at your best, if a scavenger then be a good scavenger etc etc.,. Work with commitment to your duties as professional, and if you have a family be sincere to your family with love and compassion, if you skip everything and go as a sanyasi, be really a good sanyasi with no desire for any materialistic aspect of life including going in vehicles for the sake of your followers. Again just because a sincere professional man is enjoying material comforts in this world that does not mean he is not renounced, or he is not conditioned soul. Renunciation relies on how far you perform your activities you are commited to as a human in this world. You will see Shree Krishna and You yourself will be Shree Krishna to others to whoever you helped at the times of their needs especially if you helped without any expectations from them in return. Many people read GITA, preach GITA to impress others, but how far they actually follow GITA in their personal lives God only knows. GITA is not to keep or to preach, it is to follow. If you happen to get a chance to read it, understand it, then its fine. If you dont, still its fine, none can say that you are ineligible to see Shree Krishna everywhere. There is no question of eligibility when it comes to the one-to-one relationship with Shree Krishna. You dont need anyone in the middle to reach HIM. Do you need a middle man to talk to your father and mother. Do you need any special language other than your mother tounge which you dont know to talk or write if you want to communicate to your father and mother. Talk to HIM in whatever language you know, whatever actions you are comfortable with, whatever ways you feel you can do to please HIM with your good and kind actions to other humans and other creatures. He will be with you always irrespective of whether you read or not the vedas, or its essence -the upanishads, or Krishna's life history the bagawatham and His gift the Bagawat-Gita, and even irrespective of the fact whether you have or not a GURU who can teach you all these things or not He will be with you always and you have all eligibility to see HIM, praise HIM and talk to HIM at any time and at any form.

Regards

Shyam

 

[Krishna69]

Finally what I would like tell you in essence is: nobody in this world is eligible to tell another person that he or she is eligible or ineligible to realise God if they dont do it in a particular said way as designed by us. Honestly from what I have understood Shree Krishna, everyone is eligible irrespective of your education of enlightenment in reading the scriptures, irrespective your cultural and religious background, and its irrespective of your faith and beliefs in Shree Krishna/GOD Himself. If someone tells you that you are not eligible at this stage and will become eligible later after reading so many things, under some guidance and only then renunciation will come, then he or she actually needs renunciation and it shows that they have not understood anything clearly. Nobody can guide anyone in this matter honestly. One has to realise by himself/herself which comes at any time with or without reading scriptures or from anyone. People can only tell you to read many things but how far you take it, analyze it and accept it is upto you and it has nothing to do with any eligibility. If you dont understand anything at anytime, but remain good and kind to all, that means you have realized everything and thats enough.

Regards

Shyam

[Guest guest]

you are stating Arjunas position at the beggining

of the Gita, he did not want to do what Krishna

wanted Him to do.

 

Arjuna wanted to let things be, let god handle the details.

This attitude was corrected by Sri Krishna, while speaking learned words, He said to Arjuna, really you are a fool.

 

higher then following the path of the acceptance of things as being all God's will, and therefore just

relax and it will take care of itself, Krishna said

engage in My life, become close to Me, find out what I want you to do, become My confidential agent in this world,

that is your perfection, and That alone will endear you to Me and that alone is the true purpose and fullfillment

You need.

 

Live your life as Krishna desires, this is the essence of Bhakti Yoga, the other froms of Yoga are based on gaining

from God, Bhakti is the state of consciousness of the

enlightened souls, no longer are they thinking how to gain liberation, they realize that liberation is a selfish

endeavor and ultimately the highest level of consciousness

is to develop your inherent realtionship with Krishna,

that is Premananda, the highest ecstacy of love

between God and the soul, the soul in that stage is in constant liberation automatically, engaged in the personal

and eternal realtionship that is the whole purpose

of your life.

 

 

so that conception, doing what Krishna's recommends,

that is superior to our own conceptions,whatever they may be.

[Guest guest]

 

 

so to deny the validity of following the path

of bhakti, insisiting that God wants no one to

speak for Him, leaves you without any way to learn

about God,, in that case you will learn nothing,

you can try and learn how to live the perfect

life without any guidance from others, will that be easy?

 

or you can try and learn from authorized sources,

if you want to learn anything, better to become

a student of that thing, then think by osmosis

knowledge and experience will come.

[Guest guest]

Haribol. Krsna is in everything, and uttama adhikari makes no distinction. However, Srila Prabhupada said once in a class I attended, that for a wino, Krsna is the taste of the wine. But for a disciple, Krsna may be the taste of wine to the wino, but that taste is not appreciated to the neophyte under the guidance of a spiritual master.

 

Devotees are not sentimentalist not are they empiricist, they are a proper balance of both. A devotee does not ignore Krsna's form because there is no description of that form that a human can comprehend, so pure empiricism does not hold court. Neither does a sentamentalist version that everything is krsna, so everything done is also service to krsna. Such sentamentalism is rejected in favor of the balance of devotion and knowledge.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

http://www.asitis.com/17/1.html

[Krishna69]

I guess you have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I never say that one should not try to learn to reach GOD, especially through a source who is GURU. What i tried to say is there is nothing like eligible and ineligible at any stage for an individual to feel God in different things and everywhere. Yes i do strongly say that there is no need for anyone to have a mediator to talk to GOD, neither he needs to know the scriptures. This is something portryaed in course of centuries that GOD can be reached only by certain means which is certainly foolish and actually reflect the ego of several GURUS in the past who actually did not realise GOD properly. This is clearly explained in one of the purana story. ONce Naradha asked Narayana if He knows anyone other than Naradha who think of Narayana more often to reach HIM. Narayana said anyone who think of HIM just for a second in a day inspite of his all commitments as a human, will reach HIM irrepctive of his background of anykind. He said that and showed Naradha a peasant living in a village who gets up in the morning, do his duties, go to field, have his lunch, in due course confronts his wife and children etc etc., and finally at the end of the day retires to bed. He calls Narayana only two times in the day. One is at the time he gets up and another is at the time he retires to bed. Narayana found that pesant to be the ardent devotee than Naradha and he said that to Naradha. Narada was not happy with Lord's answer and he said he can prove it that none is next to him. So Narayana gave a small cup full of oil to naradha and asked Him to come around the devaloka without any oil spill even one drop. So naradha concentrated all this thoughts and on the way Lord called him and naradha did not pay any attention, because he did want to spill the oil at any chance. Finally when he finished, Narayana asked Him how many times he thought abot the Lord during his journey. Naradha could not answer for this. Then he realised that one who is duty bound and as long as he fulfills his duty for what he commited and think of GOD in the rest of the time only whenever he can its more than sufficient.

The principle behind the story is: it is not necessary for every human to keep thinking about self renunciation and spend his time uselessly. One who works for the development of the society is also working for GOD, because GOD destines every soul with particular commitment and some soul who are born with religious background they are able to realise it, some by reading the scriptures, most by performing their regular ascribed duties.

Just because someone does not know to read sanskrit and not able to read the scriptures, that does not mean he is not going to get renounced. Just because some one does not join under a person who is considered learned in vedas, upanishads and shastras that still does not mean he is not eligible to reach GOD or see GOD in every form.

Everyone of us are just another human right from you and me. No one is eligible to say that other person has no eligibility just because I have learned everything and the other one is in the process of learning or not even interesting in learning. An individual who considers hiself that he is the learned and look down at other person who does not know anything is actually not learned by any means and not realised the supreme. Realization comes from within and not because of the GURU. Howmuch ever a GURU can teach you, you have to realize by yourself. A GURU only shows his hands to different things -basically the sources whatever he know or learnt but still you have to read and realise and that shuld come from your self. No GURU in this world can honestly claim that they have realised everything and hence show the path to others. That means why so many confrontations and conflict arise among the same school with the desciples of the same GURU. Everybody is in the process of learing and renunciation only. There are many things in this world which a GURU cannot show to the student because he himself is a student at all times. ONe has to explore their inner capacity by themselves by constantly searching for the truth and that truth is GOD. If one has the ability, determination and tenacity he/she can certainly find out the truth. Well in that case whoever guides for any particular thing assumes the role of GURU only for that particular instance, This "GURU" may be another neighbour to you, or another peasant living in a village, or any one you come across in your life time out of which you ultimately realise its one's own life time experience in different aspects is his own GURU for his self renuuciation.

Regards

Shyam

[Enlightened]

I felt so good reading them. I felt as if I was dispelled of delusion and as if i am in a presence of a great yogi.

 

Well it sounds wierd, but thats how i feel

 

 

[Guest guest]

Shri Uddhava says, "acharya caityavapusha svagati vyanakti". The Lord in the form of the acharya shows His way to His devotee. That is why these four sampradayas of Vaishnavism became famous as Ramanuja sampradaya, Madhav sampradaya, Vallabha sampradaya and Nimbarka sampradaya. Within these sampradayas there are distinctions.

---------

 

Devotee: I don't know if this is correct, but I have heard it said that if the disciple is not spiritually successful, then the Guru may not return back to Godhead but may remain in this brahmanda (universe). He may not return to Krsna until the disciple can also go.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: If that is the case, then no Guru can ever return to Krsna at any time, because the continuation of the disciples will go on, so he will have no final result at any time in his life. But we cannot think that it is so. Sometimes he may be deputed himself, or others also may be deputed in that case. But the inner instruction and inner feeling and paraphernalia will be such that in any case the disciples will have no trouble. The officer may change, but the function will go on smoothly. So the Guru may return - the nama-guru, mantra-guru, sannyasa-guru - they are all Gurus, but we must recognize something similar in them, and hence we are given the statement about the ontological aspect of Guru: saksadd haritvena samasta- "I Myself appear as the Guru, who is simultaneously and inconceivably one with and different from Myself."

 

Krsna says, acaryam mam vijaniyat: "You should look there for Me. I am there. I am your Guru. With My different types of sakti, by the jivas' recruitment or by any other way, it is My function to take you up to a different place. In every case I am there. I am there in My Madhura-rasa sakti, or Sakhya-rasa sakti, My Vatsalya-rasa sakti, Dasya-rasa sakti, and in a general way also." Sometimes one may be recruited by the Ramanuja Sampradaya and then be converted to join the Krsna Sampradaya, the Gaudiya Sampradaya. That is also possible. We are to remember the eternal link.

 

Devotee: So if someone says that the Guru himself will personally come back - that is a mundane conception, a wrong conception?

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Yes. The main thread is there, but it will not always appear in the same form. Although to the beginners one may say that "he will come back," ultimately we find that a disciple may even be transferred into another section, and then another section, so that he may gradually reach his destination. According to the unfolding of his inner necessity, the departmental change may occur. And he will always perceive his own Guru in newer and newer ways. At first sight he perceived his Guru to be of one type; then again with progress he will see the same Guru in another way, and thereafter another new characteristic will be found in his Gurudeva. The disciple will feel, "I could not detect so much in my Guru in the beginning. I saw him in one particular way, but now I find that he is something more, and then he is still more." In this way there is divine unfoldment.

 

In this world there is unfoldment, and in the higher domain also there is unfoldment. So avesa, the Guru is something like saktyavesa. There is the "chance contingency" saktyavesa who is deputed according to a particular time, place, or circumstance, and there is also the permanent saktyavesa; but in all cases, according to the necessity of the situation and by the divine dispensation of the Lord, the disciple will be connected, and he won't feel any distrust, it is the presence within. He will quench the thirst for the full progress of his heart, there will be divine unfoldment within his heart, and again he will begin a new thirst. And that new thirst will be quenched by whom? His Guru. It will be quenched by his Guru and he won't have any feeling of unscrupulousness or anything else. As his internal thirst is being satisfied, he will feel, "There is my Gurudeva."

Wherever there is unfoldment - gradual unfoldment and full attention given to that - then we can understand that from the upper side there is Guru. Gurudeva is my guide; and as I progress, guidance of different types will be necessary for me. Always new guidance, and my progress will take me into different places, and there a new type of guidance, a new life, will again come. In this way dynamic life is going on, and the main thread is there: raso vai sah - the pure rasa, pure ecstasy. And my inner heart will approve: "Yes, I want this. This is my fate; this is my fortune." Otherwise, if any madhyama-adhikari is appointed as Guru and has so many disciples, and if he is to come back again and again, then he could never enter into nitya-lila. But that cannot be so. In any case, whoever is connected with a genuine Guru will be satisfied, because the Lord is present there.

 

acaryam mam vijaniyan, navamanyeta karhicit

na martya buddhyasuyeta, sarva deva-mayo guruh

 

(Bha: 11.17.27)

 

Krsna says, "Don't try to limit the Acarya! You may have come up to a high position, but will you then think that you have surpassed that Acarya through whom you received your initial instruction in spiritual life? No, navamanyeta don't think that there is less in him, don't consider him to be of lower position. Navamanyeta - I Myself was there! I was there in your primary teacher, in your 'college-level' teacher, and I am there in your 'post-graduate professor' also! So navamanyeta, don't look at only the outside. I Myself am your guide in different forms. It is I."

 

Sarva deva-mayo guruh: the Acarya has got more spacious characteristics than that of the ordinary, general Vaisnava. Krsna says, "For you, I am there. And mayanukulena nabhasvateritam - I am backing so many Acaryas. There are so many Acaryas, and I am working through them. The Acaryas are like helmsmen in so many different boats, and I am the favorable wind helping those boats to make progress. So don't limit the Acarya - try to see him on the same level as Me."

[Krishna69]

Hi..I am giving your paragaraph and my answer below:

 

"Krsna says, "Don't try to limit the Acarya! You may have come up to a high position, but will you then think that you have surpassed that Acarya through whom you received your initial instruction in spiritual life? No, navamanyeta don't think that there is less in him, don't consider him to be of lower position. Navamanyeta - I Myself was there! I was there in your primary teacher, in your 'college-level' teacher, and I am there in your 'post-graduate professor' also! So navamanyeta, don't look at only the outside. I Myself am your guide in different forms. It is I."

 

 

Yes this is the same thing I mentioned in my reply saying that Krishna comes to us as teacher in every form in every walk of life and teach us something. Its not just reading the scriptures alone will make one gain experience to realise GOD. You realise GOD in many ways. Yes He comes in every GURU irrespective of their standards. We have to see only the KRishna portion of the individual and through every individual we meet in our lives at different times, we realise HIM. There is no question of eligibility for this. this is what i meant.

regards

Shyam

 

[Guest guest]

but there is a question of eligibility.

 

for example , lets say you wanted to become a quantum physicist, but did not take the required courses, then went

to the physicist hangout and tried to relate to them

as an equal in their field.

 

they will not appreciate.

 

so the same goes for God, yes God is everywhere,and you can approach god any way you like.

 

but there is Gods inner circle ,his confidants, those

are the people who take the effort to become educated

to God's level , who learn what God likes to talk about,

what God considers to be interesting, what God finds

appealing in an intimate friend.

 

otherwise you are like the boor trying to crash a party,

God may be everywhere and compassionite, but also

has an inner life, a home life, with those who

take the effort to get to know him/her.

[Guest guest]

what exactly is that eligibility by which I don't "crash the party" so to speak .

 

Can you tell this poor soul?

 

[Krishna69]

Working with a teacher in the materialistic world is different from teacher in the spiritual world. This cannot be compared in the first instance. Spiritual knowledge can be gained only in course of time and not just by your attachement with a particular person in that field alone. Actual spirituality comes only in course of experience due to your interactions with different kinds of people and not just with the one who has learnt vedas, bible and GITA alone. GURU not necessarily meant only a learned person on any particular aspect. A totally uneducated person may open up your eyes for something which a learned person may not be able to do. So in this instant he assumes the position of GURU. Unfortunately people other than the real acharyas like Sankara, ramanuja, madhva many followers of them read their work but not properly understand their essence and simply blindly follow thinking "yes yes guru is essential to show spiritual path"

What is spirituality in real sense. Spirituality does not rely just in vedas of different religions. Spirituality lies in understanding the truth in anything. Whether a person actually worship jesus or Krishna or not, as long as he keeps perfoming his duties without fail and rise up to the occassion when he find injustice and raise his voice and actions against injustice, yes he is renounced spiritually. Whether one belives in Krishna or not, when one realise him or not HE is still there and make the soul to perform the duty ascribed to every soul. Some soul realise it in religious version, some they realise it in non religious way by devoting themselves to their regular ascribed duties. Howmuch ever this is explained in many small stories in our puranas, this concept has not reached many people including the ones who really claim they are well learned. In sankara's life itslef this is explained as an incident that anyone at anytime can be your spiritual guru and not just a learned one alone.

Shankara once while going in his path met the dogeater with four dogs and shankara asked him to leave way for him. That man asked shankara "you want me to give u way by leaving this body or the soul" Shankara realised a spiritual renunciation from that dog eater and he saw Lord Shiva in that dog eater. In course of time people fabricated it and said Lord shiva appeared like that. Yes i do agree that Lord Shiva appeared, because He whether we call HIM as Shiva or Vishnu or KRishna is in everyone and this is the essence of GITA. What is the requirement of eligibility to attain this stage. Everyone and anyone is eligible to attain this spiritual stage of realising the truth in course of his life. Spirituality does not mean only realizing GOD in the religiously described form. Spirituality lies in realizing the TRUTH in anything. When you realise the truth that every individual is equal as another human and every life is equal only then we will stop hurting the other person, and other lives for our personal benefits. Realising this is the highest form of spiritual renunciation as per GITA given by the Master of Universe Shree Krishna.

Regards

Shyam

[Guest guest]

http://www.telugutoranam.com/gita/index.php3?chapter=8

[Guest guest]

Why do u consider TRUTH and GOD as different thing ? Spirituality is all about knowing GOD.

 

[Guest guest]

This was a little problematic, because i couldn't stop seeing krishna in even the grossest like in commodes and in bathrooms etc.

 

Give me that problem immediately!!!!! HERE WITH YOUR PROBLEM!! PLEASE GIVE THAT PROBLEM TO ME!!!!!

 

VdK.

[theist]

And here I can't see Krishna in the sun or the flowers, in fact I can't even find Him in His names.

 

Vdk, once you get such problems please share a little with me. May we all be cursed with such problems.