atma and bhagwan

May 13, 2003

atma and bhagwan what is the diference? is krishna just a name like ours? why not worship him as the param atma which he is in every one,

Krishna69 · May 13, 2003

From my understandings of Bagwatgita, Atma refers to Paramathma and jeevathma. Jeevathma is that part of Paramatma which descends down as differnt souls to come into this universe. Paramatma is Bagwan or the most Supreme which we call as Shree Krishna. This paramatma once realised by jeevathma that jeevathma is part of it, we start worshiping the Paramathma. Paramathma is the most loving any jeevan can think off. Whether the jeevathma realises it or not depending on our actions called karma we reap the benefits. that portion of jeevathma which descends to this materialistic world goes back to HIM after attaining the realisation when it takes birth as soul in the human form. IN human form every soul is given the oportunity to realise the Paramathma since we are given the exclusive sixth sense to think and analyze anything. In my understanding and strong opinion after analyzing GITA very much and not just blindly accepting what the author has interpreted I feel the following as law of karma for jeevathma to go back to Paramathma.

A human soul is given all best opportunity in its first birth as human. If the soul in human form does all kinds of atrocities by spoiling other's life, hurt others and kill other jeevathmas for its personal benefits, then the soul is made to pay back in some form for its hurtful actions. If the soul does not realise it until death or if it realise the faults at the end in death bed, then the same soul takes only a human form only, to pay back for all the evil actions it performed so that it clear off the debts and know the sufferings what it incurred on other jeevathma. This is the reason I strongly feel why many good people suffer for nothing. Probably they would have been a hurting force and realised their faults at their end of lives. Krishna/GOD does not accept a soul in its impure form just because it realised at the last minute and started chanting krishna krishna in death bed. The soul takes another human birth and remain good as it alreadly realised the good, but yet pay for all the actions and get purified and go back to paramathma. This is how the law of karma operates. the time the soul takes to pay for its actions depends on how early it realises that by creating hurtful actions its going to suffer for all actions. If you hurt an innocent, you will be hurt by someone later or by the same person. So its better to apologise to the same person whom you hurt so that you dont get hurt later with a much bigger magnitude. once can call the paramathma in any form you like, talk to HIM in any language you know and worship HIM in form you wish. He is beyond all these things created by the jeevathma's for our convenience and easy way to think of HIM.

Regards

Shyam

gHari · May 13, 2003

Paramatma will only be with us in this world. Yes, that is sad.

But Paramatma knows our best interest and He knows the most intimate desire of our heart. It is Bhagavan Sri Krsna we want, and He is in the transcendental abode.

May 13, 2003

Param Atma is the consciousness of God.

Bhagavan is the personality of that consciousness.

so both are God, but Bhagavan is the aspect of God

that displays God's personality or personas.

whereas Paramatma is God's feature as an all pervading

consciousness, with full consciousness present at any point within the whole, so to say that Paramatma exists only in this world is incorrect, Paramatma is infinite,and omnipresent,everywhere,at all times,it cannot be other.

this is how God is fully concscious of everything,

Paramatma.

in the spiritual realm also, God is present in everything,

reality is consciousness, the trees, water, land, is all

comprised of consciousness,Paramatma.

also here all is Paramatma, matter is a transformation of

conscious energy, matter possess' conscious ability,

that is what enforces the laws of nature.

in the spiritual world the same principle applies,

all is comprised of God's consciousness.

gHari · May 13, 2003

Knowledge of the Absolute is revealed by Lord Krsna to Arjuna in Bhagavad-gita 7.3-4:<blockquote><center>manuSyANAM sahasreSu

kazcid yatati siddhaye

yatatAm api siddhAnAM

kazcin mAM vetti tattvataH

</center>

manuSyANAm--of men; sahasreSu--out of many thousands; kazcit--someone; yatati--endeavors; siddhaye--for perfection; yatatAm--of those so endeavoring; api--indeed; siddhAnAm--of those who have achieved perfection; kazcit--someone; mAm--Me; vetti--does know; tattvataH--in fact.

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

PURPORT

There are various grades of men, and out of many thousands, one may be sufficiently interested in transcendental realization to try to know what is the self, what is the body, and what is the Absolute Truth. Generally mankind is simply engaged in the animal propensities, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating, and hardly anyone is interested in transcendental knowledge. The first six chapters of the GItA are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jJAna-yoga, dhyAna-yoga and discrimination of the self from matter. However, KRSNa can be known only by persons who are in KRSNa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding KRSNa. KRSNa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and ParamAtmA. The yogIs and jJAnIs are confused in their attempts to understand KRSNa. Although the greatest of the impersonalists, SrIpAda SaGkarAcArya, has admitted in his GItA commentary that KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his followers do not accept KRSNa as such, for it is very difficult to know KRSNa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman.

KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda. IzvaraH paramaH kRSNaH sac-cid-Ananda-vigrahaH/ anAdir Adir govindaH sarva-kAraNa-kAraNam. It is very difficult for the nondevotees to know Him. Although nondevotees declare that the path of bhakti, or devotional service, is very easy, they cannot practice it. If the path of bhakti is so easy, as the nondevotee class of men proclaim, then why do they take up the difficult path? Actually the path of bhakti is not easy. The so-called path of bhakti practiced by unauthorized persons without knowledge of bhakti may be easy, but when it is practiced factually according to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall away from the path. SrIla RUpa GosvAmI writes in his Bhakti-rasAmRta-sindhu (1.2.101):

<center>zruti-smRti-purANAdi-

paJcarAtra-vidhiM vinA

aikAntikI harer bhaktir

utpAtAyaiva kalpate

</center>

"Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the UpaniSads, PurANas and NArada-paJcarAtra is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society."

It is not possible for the Brahman-realized impersonalist or the ParamAtmA-realized yogI to understand KRSNa the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the son of mother YazodA or the charioteer of Arjuna. Even the great demigods are sometimes confused about KRSNa (muhyanti yat sUrayaH). MAM tu veda na kazcana: "No one knows Me as I am," the Lord says. And if one does know Him, then sa mahAtmA su-durlabhaH. "Such a great soul is very rare." Therefore unless one practices devotional service to the Lord, one cannot know KRSNa as He is (tattvataH), even though one is a great scholar or philosopher. Only the pure devotees can know something of the inconceivable transcendental qualities in KRSNa, in the cause of all causes, in His omnipotence and opulence, and in His wealth, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge and renunciation, because KRSNa is benevolently inclined to His devotees. He is the last word in Brahman realization, and the devotees alone can realize Him as He is. Therefore it is said:

<center>ataH zrI-kRSNa-nAmAdi

na bhaved grAhyam indriyaiH

sevonmukhe hi jihvAdau

svayam eva sphuraty adaH

</center>

"No one can understand KRSNa as He is by the blunt material senses. But He reveals Himself to the devotees, being pleased with them for their transcendental loving service unto Him." (Bhakti-rasAmRta-sindhu 1.2.234)

<center>7.4

bhUmir Apo 'nalo vAyuH

khaM mano buddhir eva ca

ahaGkAra itIyaM me

bhinnA prakRtir aSTadhA

</center>

bhUmiH--earth; ApaH--water; analaH--fire; vAyuH--air; kham--ether; manaH--mind; buddhiH--intelligence; eva--certainly; ca--and; ahaGkAraH--false ego; iti--thus; iyam--all these; me--My; bhinnA--separated; prakRtiH--energies; aSTadhA--eightfold.

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego--all together these eight constitute My separated material energies.

PURPORT

The science of God analyzes the constitutional position of God and His diverse energies. Material nature is called prakRti, or the energy of the Lord in His different puruSa incarnations (expansions) as described in the SAtvata-tantra:

<center>viSNos tu trINi rUpANi

puruSAkhyAny atho viduH

ekaM tu mahataH sraSTR

dvitIyaM tv aNDa-saMsthitam

tRtIyaM sarva-bhUta-sthaM

tAni jJAtvA vimucyate

</center>

"For material creation, Lord KRSNa's plenary expansion assumes three ViSNus. The first one, MahA-ViSNu, creates the total material energy, known as the mahat-tattva. The second, GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu, enters into all the universes to create diversities in each of them. The third, KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu, is diffused as the all-pervading Supersoul in all the universes and is known as ParamAtmA. He is present even within the atoms. Anyone who knows these three ViSNus can be liberated from material entanglement."

This material world is a temporary manifestation of one of the energies of the Lord. All the activities of the material world are directed by these three ViSNu expansions of Lord KRSNa. These puruSas are called incarnations. Generally one who does not know the science of God (KRSNa) assumes that this material world is for the enjoyment of the living entities and that the living entities are the puruSas--the causes, controllers and enjoyers of the material energy. According to Bhagavad-gItA this atheistic conclusion is false. In the verse under discussion it is stated that KRSNa is the original cause of the material manifestation. SrImad-BhAgavatam also confirms this. The ingredients of the material manifestation are separated energies of the Lord. Even the brahmajyoti, which is the ultimate goal of the impersonalists, is a spiritual energy manifested in the spiritual sky. There are no spiritual diversities in the brahmajyoti as there are in the VaikuNThalokas, and the impersonalist accepts this brahmajyoti as the ultimate eternal goal. The ParamAtmA manifestation is also a temporary all-pervasive aspect of the KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu. The ParamAtmA manifestation is not eternal in the spiritual world. Therefore the factual Absolute Truth is the Supreme Personality of Godhead KRSNa. He is the complete energetic person, and He possesses different separated and internal energies.

In the material energy, the principal manifestations are eight, as above mentioned. Out of these, the first five manifestations, namely earth, water, fire, air and sky, are called the five gigantic creations or the gross creations, within which the five sense objects are included. They are the manifestations of physical sound, touch, form, taste and smell. Material science comprises these ten items and nothing more. But the other three items, namely mind, intelligence and false ego, are neglected by the materialists. Philosophers who deal with mental activities are also not perfect in knowledge because they do not know the ultimate source, KRSNa. The false ego--"I am," and "It is mine, which constitute the basic principle of material existence--includes ten sense organs for material activities. Intelligence refers to the total material creation, called the mahat-tattva. Therefore from the eight separated energies of the Lord are manifest the twenty-four elements of the material world, which are the subject matter of SAGkhya atheistic philosophy; they are originally offshoots from KRSNa's energies and are separated from Him, but atheistic SAGkhya philosophers with a poor fund of knowledge do not know KRSNa as the cause of all causes. The subject matter for discussion in the SAGkhya philosophy is only the manifestation of the external energy of KRSNa, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gItA.

</blockquote>

The growing stages of love (realization) of Bhagavan are sketched out in verse 6.9.33 of the Srimad Bhagavatam:<blockquote><center>oM namas te 'stu bhagavan nArAyaNa vAsudevAdi-puruSa mahA-puruSa mahAnubhAva parama-maGgala parama-kalyANa parama-kAruNika kevala jagad-AdhAra lokaika-nAtha sarvezvara lakSmI-nAtha paramahaMsa-parivrAjakaiH parameNAtma-yoga-samAdhinA paribhAvita-parisphuTa-pAramahaMsya-dharmeNodghATita-tamaH-kapATa-dvAre citte 'pAvRta Atma-loke svayam upalabdha-nija-sukhAnubhavo bhavAn.

</center>

oM--O Lord; namaH--respectful obeisances; te--unto You; astu--let there be; bhagavan--O Supreme Personality of Godhead; nArAyaNa--the resort of all living entities, NArAyaNa; vAsudeva--Lord VAsudeva, SrI KRSNa; Adi-puruSa--the original person; mahA-puruSa--the most exalted personality; mahA-anubhAva--the supremely opulent; parama-maGgala--the most auspicious; parama-kalyANa--the supreme benediction; parama-kAruNika--the supremely merciful; kevala--changeless; jagat-AdhAra--the support of the cosmic manifestation; loka-eka-nAtha--the only proprietor of all the planetary systems; sarva-Izvara--the supreme controller; lakSmI-nAtha--the husband of the goddess of fortune; paramahaMsa-parivrAjakaiH--by the topmost sannyAsIs wandering all over the world; parameNa--by supreme; Atma-yoga-samAdhinA--absorption in bhakti-yoga; paribhAvita--fully purified; parisphuTa--and fully manifested; pAramahaMsya-dharmeNa--by executing the transcendental process of devotional service; udghATita--pushed open; tamaH--of illusory existence; kapATa--in which the door; dvAre--existing as the entrance; citte--in the mind; apAvRte--without contamination; Atma-loke--in the spiritual world; svayam--personally; upalabdha--experiencing; nija--personal; sukha-anubhavaH--perception of happiness; bhavAn--Your Lordship.

O Supreme Personality of Godhead, O NArAyaNa, O VAsudeva, original person! O most exalted person, supreme experience, welfare personified! O supreme benediction, supremely merciful and changeless! O support of the cosmic manifestation, sole proprietor of all planetary systems, master of everything and husband of the goddess of fortune! Your Lordship is realized by the topmost sannyAsIs, who wander about the world to preach KRSNa consciousness, fully absorbed in samAdhi through bhakti-yoga. Because their minds are concentrated upon You, they can receive the conception of Your personality in their fully purified hearts. When the darkness in their hearts is completely eradicated and You are revealed to them, the transcendental bliss they enjoy is the transcendental form of Your Lordship. No one but such persons can realize You. Therefore we simply offer You our respectful obeisances.

PURPORT

The Supreme Personality of Godhead has numerous transcendental names pertaining to different grades of revelation to various grades of devotees and transcendentalists. When He is realized in His impersonal form He is called the Supreme Brahman, when realized as the ParamAtmA He is called antaryAmI, and when He expands Himself in different forms for material creation He is called KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu, GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu and KAraNodakazAyI ViSNu. When He is realized as VAsudeva, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha--the CaturvyUha, who are beyond the three forms of ViSNu--He is the VaikuNTha NArAyaNa. Above realization of NArAyaNa is realization of Baladeva, and above that is realization of KRSNa. All these realizations are possible when one engages fully in devotional service. The covered core of one's heart is then completely open to receiving an understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His various forms.

</blockquote>

May 14, 2003

hi,

atman is like a small spark and always prone to ignorance.they fall into dirt and loose their sparkle for some time.parmatma or bhagavan is like giant disc of sun.he never falls down.he is sukhyalam or whiteness...free from all ignorance and passion.we are his tiny parts.we are compared to the sunshine.clouds of ignorance cover us but God is above everything.he is creator,maintainer,dstroyer yet untouched by material modes.he is soul of all souls.his love is so much after death it's hard to take...overwhelming pure unconditional love.you wud do anything for that love.

plz read bhagavad gita for more truths

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