When is it the right time to go over to the Gaudiya Math?

[Guest guest]

During Prabhupada's manifest pastimes there seemed little interest to go to the Gaudiya Math Maharajas. But when Prabhupada entered nitya-lila,many went to take shelter of Sridhar Maharaja.Recently,many have gone to Narayana Maharaja.Was there or is there or will there be a right time to go over to the Gaudiya Math to take shelter?

[gHari]

When Krsna takes you there, then that is fine. If it is your mind or silly ego, then it is just offensive. We see the nature of some who have gone; ISKCON may be better rid of them.

[Guest guest]

Your necessity for spiritual life and good association should guide your movements. You have to get beyond institutional thinking and ask yourself what you can do to progress as a sadhaka. If you find someone who is in 'Gaudiya Matha' who inspires you in your practice then you should go there. It's not about politics or institutions or personality cults or fidelity/infedelity - it's about a genuine desire to serve Krnsa and his devotees and to hear from advanced vaishnavas wherever you may find them.

 

Your servant,

Audarya-lila dasa

[Guest guest]

So Srila Prabhupada started an "instituion?"

 

Yes, now it has become that, but his instructions have not.

 

His instructions were to not to go over to Gaudiya Math.

[Guest guest]

 

His instructions were to not to go over to Gaudiya Math.

 

 

you do make affirmation!

you give citation.

better

no conflagration.

 

where is bhakti

go

pay

the price

and buy it

 

geeedy greedy greedy

 

no greed

no pay!

misfortune

 

no lila kamala

the pastimes of lotus

which Krsna twirls in hands

the hearts of vrajavasis

causing the gopis hearts

to dance

 

your servant

the neophyte

[Guest guest]

Thank you gHari for you stong uncompromised preaching which must taste like bitter sauce to those could not remain in the guru's ashram: ISKCON. ISKCON is Sriman Mahaprabhu's Movement of pure unalloyed spiritual Preceptors(a soceity of pure Devotees) coming down fom the 6 Goswamis. All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gouranga!!!

[gHari]

Of course, we cannot assume that Krsna did not support the moving of these devotees to another position. How can we know?

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Prabhujis Dunndavatts All Glories to Shree Shree Guru and Gouranga!

While serving Srila Prabhupada in our Bombay ISKCON temple Hare Krishna Land the abode of Radha Rasabihariji

I had a discussion with HH Tamala Krishna Goswami about these points of the this tread .

At that time Maharaja was trying to stress to me the importance of loyality and he told me a story of how one day he approched His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada about Garga Muni stealing his men.

Srila Prabhupada just said if they were your men then how is it that Garga Muni Swami was able to capture them,I think they must actually be his men.

So it is a matter of heart where one reposes the heart.

I have great respect for all of Srila Prabhupadas god brothers and would never advoid not hearing from any of them but at the same time I am the dog of Srila Prabhupada.

If one allways sees ISKCON as Srila Prabhupada and knew and knows His Divine Grace they can never actually leave his assoication.

Either serving him within His Divine Graces mission directly or in the assoication of His god brothers I can not see how this is leaving ISKCON .

Srila Prabhupada is alive in all of his disclips where ever they are.

We should fear the assoication of non devottees

[Guest guest]

I couldn't agree more with Audarya-lila prabhu.

 

You should be where you can percieve a tangible progress in Krsna Consciousness. If that place is ISKCON, great! If it's somewhere else, so be it. ISKCON or Gaudiya Matha, the aim is to re-awaken our love for Krsna.

 

 

Your necessity for spiritual life and good association should guide your movements. You have to get beyond institutional thinking and ask yourself what you can do to progress as a sadhaka. If you find someone who is in 'Gaudiya Matha' who inspires you in your practice then you should go there. It's not about politics or institutions or personality cults or fidelity/infedelity - it's about a genuine desire to serve Krnsa and his devotees and to hear from advanced vaishnavas wherever you may find them.

 

Your servant,

Audarya-lila dasa

[raga]

 

Was there or is there or will there be a right time to go over to the Gaudiya Math to take shelter?

The right time would be yesterday, or when the hell freezes over, or anything in between the two, depending largely on whom you ask. The question, then, comes down to whom you follow and whose view makes sense to you.

[Legioss]

 

you do make affirmation!

you give citation.

better

no conflagration.

 

Yay! Another thread where the ISKCON and ritvik proponents quote Prabhupada when he says don't go to Gaudiya Math, then the pro-GM group of people makes quotes that has Prabhupada as being favorable toward several "Gaudiya Math" gurus, then the pro-ISKCONers and rtvks repost original quotes, then the pro-GM camp quotes Prabhupada when he says something unrelated to GM-gurus that shouldn't be taken literally.

 

I can't wait to see this one take shape, I lost the 100 GM versus ISKCON and ritvik threads that I archived.

[theist]

I'll remain in the church of the non-affiliated. Not sure how many members are here with me as we don't bother to keep count. People seem to come and go and come back as they please. The foolish follow their minds directions and the wise follow the Lord in the Heart.

 

So we must become wise by His Grace.

[Guest guest]

I have visited many ISKCON temples in Europe and India. One thing I liked is they all follow the daily routine without fail. like 4.30/5.00 mangal aarti after that tulasi puja and chanting then 7.00/7.30 dailydarshan and then evening aarti etc.

I also visited oneor two gaudya math, there this daily routine was unavailable. This way ISKCON has better process than gaudiya maths.

YS, DD

[Kulapavana]

 

Mental Platform Devotees Leave ISKCON to go where the grass is greener

 

staying in Iskcon despite all odds can be coming from a mental platform too. better not to pass such generalizations. some devotees increased their devotional lives very nicely after going to GM. and GM gurus helped untold numbers of Iskcon devotees cope with all kinds of problems. dont minimize their service, please.

[Beggar]

 

I have visited many ISKCON temples in Europe and India. One thing I liked is they all follow the daily routine without fail. like 4.30/5.00 mangal aarti after that tulasi puja and chanting then 7.00/7.30 dailydarshan and then evening aarti etc.

I also visited oneor two gaudya math, there this daily routine was unavailable. This way ISKCON has better process than gaudiya maths.

YS, DD

True. Too bad the G.M. gurus could not have been incorporated into ISKCON after the failure of the G.B.C. Rubber Stamp Guru System.

[Guest guest]

People seem to ignore that fact that Sridhar Maharaja left the Gaudiya Matha and established his own matha called Sri Caitanya Saraswata Matha.

 

Technically as well as practically, the institution of Sridhar Maharaja was NOT Gaudiya Matha.

 

As Sridhar Maharaja said that he did not allow even things that his spiritual master allowed, his Matha was definitely NOT Gaudiya Matha.

[Guest guest]

 

Yay! Another thread where the ISKCON and ritvik proponents quote Prabhupada when he says don't go to Gaudiya Math, then the pro-GM group of people makes quotes that has Prabhupada as being favorable toward several "Gaudiya Math" gurus, then the pro-ISKCONers and rtvks repost original quotes, then the pro-GM camp quotes Prabhupada when he says something unrelated to GM-gurus that shouldn't be taken literally.

 

I can't wait to see this one take shape, I lost the 100 GM versus ISKCON and ritvik threads that I archived.

 

If you really look at the ISKCON guru system of today, you will find that it is really nothing more than a covered ritvik system.

The rules and strictures that the GBC puts on GURUS clearly mandates that these gurus are really nothing more than ritviks initiating devotees into ISKCON more so than initiationg them as personal disciples.

 

the GBC dictates to the gurus. the GBC is OVER the gurus.

The GBC is responsible to Srila Prabhupada.

 

ISKCON is a ritvik society by all true calculations.

They just don't like to admit it or give it a ritvik designation.

 

However, a class of gurus under the authority of the GBC are really nothing but ritviks.

 

A horse by any other name is still a horse.

 

They call this ISKCON guru system "soft-ritvik" because it is conducted in a covered way under the traditional disguise.

[Kulapavana]

 

They call this ISKCON guru system "soft-ritvik" because it is conducted in a covered way under the traditional disguise.

 

interesting observation. but dont forget that it all happened AFTER the ABYSMAL failures of the "zonal acharya" system in Iskcon. in many ways both situations are byproducts of overemphasizing the position and power of individual gurus in GV, which is a fairly modern phenomenon with strong tantric roots...

[Guest guest]

 

interesting observation. but dont forget that it all happened AFTER the ABYSMAL failures of the "zonal acharya" system in Iskcon. in many ways both situations are byproducts of overemphasizing the position and power of individual gurus in GV, which is a fairly modern phenomenon with strong tantric roots...

 

Well, actually the concept of ZONAL ACHARYAS was closer to hard-ritvik than is the present guru system.

 

The zonal acharya concept was that one should just take initiation from the zonal representative.

This formula did not allow for specific faith in a specific "guru".

It just said take initiation from the local man.

 

That was also a covered ritvik concept, but they tried to then portray these zonal authorities as full-fledged gurus and then they ran into opposition.

 

In reality, a zonal guru system is a ritvik system.

They tried to deny that, so the zonal guru system became a farce and they adjusted it to yet another awkward and impracticle system of a faith-based system of gurus under the authority of the GBC.

 

Either way, both scenarios are nothing more than covered ritvik conducted in a way that tries to keep a traditonal facade (false front).

[Beggar]

A soft rtvik is better than no rtvik at all. Isn't Rtvik the capital of Iceland?

Now on a serious note: The GBC's current guru system is similiar to rtvik but at least the "facade" pays some respect, if not much to the concept of guru tattva. In this kind of system, if a self-realized soul appears then at least there is some chance, maybe. The true Rtvik's deny that their is even the possibility of a living guru appearing for the next 10,000 years. Yikes, you've just been sentenced to 10,000 years with no possibility of a living guru! Sounds like a death sentence for the concept of guru tattva...no thanks!

[Guest guest]

 

The true Rtvik's deny that their is even the possibility of a living guru appearing for the next 10,000 years.

 

That's not true.

There is no school of ritviks anywhere that say that.

 

That's just the false propaganda that the anti-ritviks have been making for a long time.

The problem is that it is not true.

 

Making such false accusations against the ritviks simply shows desperation and fear on the part of the anti-ritviks who have to resort to false propaganda to defend their position.

 

The ritviks do not deny that there will be other gurus from other camps.

 

They just claim that Srila Prabhupada established ritvik in ISKCON for ISKCON and that it only pertains to ISKCON.

[Beggar]

 

That's not true.

The ritviks do not deny that there will be other gurus from other camps.

 

 

Just what do you mean by other camps?

 

Hello matta, hello Pitta

Here I am at Camp ISKCONada

Camp is very entertaining

And they say we'll have some fun if it the Rtviks stop complaining.

 

Remember my Zonal guru, the one than preached in Urdu, The GBC just caught him breaking his curfew...

[Guest guest]

 

Just what do you mean by other camps?

)

 

 

Other institutions, mathas, parivars etc.

 

There have been different camps of devotees for as long as their has been Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

 

Why should ISKCON have the finger pointed at them because they have their own acharya with his own specific teachings relevant to them?

 

There are as many "camps" as there are "gurus".

 

If there was no difference between them there we wouldn't need so many diffferent gurus.

[Guest guest]

What is this zonal acharya concept and what went wrong with it? Why was it started?

 

 

Well, actually the concept of ZONAL ACHARYAS was closer to hard-ritvik than is the present guru system.

 

The zonal acharya concept was that one should just take initiation from the zonal representative.

This formula did not allow for specific faith in a specific "guru".

It just said take initiation from the local man.

 

That was also a covered ritvik concept, but they tried to then portray these zonal authorities as full-fledged gurus and then they ran into opposition.

 

In reality, a zonal guru system is a ritvik system.

They tried to deny that, so the zonal guru system became a farce and they adjusted it to yet another awkward and impracticle system of a faith-based system of gurus under the authority of the GBC.

 

Either way, both scenarios are nothing more than covered ritvik conducted in a way that tries to keep a traditonal facade (false front).

[Guest guest]

 

What is this zonal acharya concept and what went wrong with it? Why was it started?

 

That was when the 11 ritviks that Srila Prabhupada appointed assumed that they were to be the official gurus of ISKCON after the passing of Srila Prabhupada and they divided up the world into their respective zones and starting initiation their own disciples.

 

The problem was that devotees started complaining that if they were gurus and not ritviks that there should not be zonal gurus because a guru is accepted on faith - not zonal authority.

 

So, after giving it some more thought, they decided that they had to eliminate the zonal guru concept for a faith based guru system where new devotees had to choose their own guru based on faith.

 

Even then, the zonal powers were hard to dislodge and the zonal guru system went on for the most part for several years till it gradually erroded down due to the freedom that devotees were given to accept a guru on faith and not the zonal authority.

 

Still, the zonal guru system has it's remnants intact because many of these gurus are well established in certain parts of the world and new devotees are coerced by the local disciples that they have to take initiation from the prominant guru of that zone.

 

That's why Danavir Maharaja is complaining about empty temples.

 

There are parts of the world where outside gurus are not welcomed by the followers of another guru and thus the movement is stymied by this impediment.