? on diksa

[theist]

On another board I saw this:

 

 

Dhira Govinda's definition of diksa is precise, and that is precisely the reason why Srila Prabhupada cannot be accepted as one's diksa guru. Transmission of transcendental knowledge has two parts, according to the tad vidhi pranipatena verse: enquiries, and submissive service; both of which require a physically present spiritual master. In every instance of the Bhagavatam, exchanges between disciples and their spiritual masters attained perfection in this way. Answering the doubts of the disciple is the way by which the transcendental knowledge is revealed to him, and a submissive service attitude softens the heart of the master, so that he is impelled to speak more, as the knowledge is being fully appreciated. Its like a gardener who sees that a certain part of his garden has soft soil, and so waters it, rather than the stony paths.

 

 

Q.1)enquiries; Since Supersoul knows our questions can we not ask Him and then be directed to the answers in Prabhupada's books? Did those thousands of disciples of Srila Prabhupada have access to his vapuh even while he was physically here? What has changed then?

 

 

Q.2) Do you think you need a physically manifest spiritual master to render submissive service?

 

I mean isn't service the fullfilling of someone else's will? Don't we know what Prabhupada's will is? This is not meant to preclude the taking of advice from those physically present also. But why say we can't serve a pure devotee just because he has left his earthly mission physically?

 

We serve his will and his will is clear. isn't it a matter of internal dedication? Doesn't Supersoul know our true intention? If you bow down and offer your humble service to Srila Prabhupada sincerely will it be accepted or rejected.?

 

What do you think?

 

[Guest guest]

If one has not recieved Hari Nama from a living guru he should do so.

 

If one is not situated transcendentally when his living guru enters Nitya Lila he sould take shelter of a self realized Siksha guru.

 

Sri Krsna wants us to return back to godhead and will guide us as the Guru in the heart if were are sincere. If we get cheated and then become frustrated is our own fault and no one elses.

 

Saranagati is a very deep concept and should be studied by students interested in spiritual science.

 

The have been selfrealized Guru Acaryas in the past, present and in the future to come. Faith and sincere desire is all we need to be succesful.

 

- Alannatha Das

[stonehearted]

Internal dedication is the essential ingredient, along with humility. These should eventually move us to submit to accept initiation from a bonafide spiritual master. This is the example Mahaprabhu Himself set; it's also noteworthy that, of the 64 items of devotional service He instructed to Sanatan, the first five (and it's a progression) have to do with approaching a spiritual master, accepting intiation from him, inquiring and accepting his instructions, and following his direction.

 

That said, this business cannot be legislated. It's ultimately aranged by Krishna according to our sincerity.

[livingentity]

for this post. These are questions that I have been mulling over now for quite some time and I do hope that your post will initiate a discussion on this.

 

I can only speak for myself and perhaps I am not fully understanding but I do not find the answers given here satisfactory - they seem to be the same pat answers that are parroted out whenever such questions are asked.

 

Q1. Many times I have had a question and/or someone has asked something that has sparked my curiousity and I will go to my folio disk to research and there will be the exact answer needed. Supersoul direction?

 

I have several devotee friends who are direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada - one never saw Him and one saw Him once. What has changed?

 

Q2. Service to Srila Prabhupada and His mission is going on daily - book distribution etc etc -

 

Well, as I said earlier I do hope that this will initiate a nice discussion with answers from the heart not just the same things that we have heard for so many years.

 

[stonehearted]

if the answers seem pat. I just got 'em from Chaitanya-charitamrita. I think it's dangerous to make this stuff up. Moreover, they weren't intended as definitive, conclusive, or final. (I've already affirmed my confidence in theist's sincerity, although I know he doesn't mean this to be about him.) They were meant to further open discussion. Dhira Govinda's book has spawned much discussion, opened many questions anew. I think that's a good thing.

 

I think one thing Srila Prabhupada would say is that this is Lord Chaitanya's movement, these are Lord Chaitanya's teachings. He often referred to this movement as the cult of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

[livingentity]

I have not expressed myself properly and will give it more thought and try again after I wake up. I certainly do not want speculation and manufacturing. Sorry if I made it sound like that.

[Guest guest]

 

Q2. Service to Srila Prabhupada and His mission is going on daily - book distribution etc etc –

 

 

Answer:

I think one thing Srila Prabhupada would say is that this is Lord Chaitanya's movement, these are Lord Chaitanya's teachings. He often referred to this movement as the cult of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Dont stop say Radha ha say Krsna ha

Jaya jaya Radha Ramana haribol

Jaya jaya Radha Ramana haribol

 

yadi gauranga nahito

madhura vRndA vipina mAdhuri

praveSa cAturi sAr

baraja yuvati bhAvera bhakati

Sakati hoito kAr

 

If Sriman GaurANga MahAprabhu had not come,

who could have had the intelligence to join

the sweet madhura rasa of Sri RAdhA KRSNa's lilas in VRndAvana?

Who else could have given the power to enter the vraja ramaNis

loving mood of sevA to yugala kiSora?

 

popocatepetl

the fool of Her Majesty

[Guest guest]

Diksa must be received from a living guru.- how else are you to get the mantra? reading the gayatri from a book does not work. otherwise everyone who read Bhagavatam would have initiated every reader, which is patently not the case. If the mantra is passed on by tape of the guru, this is as good as getting directly, but those tapes will not help with someone who does it later, since the guru spoke it for that particular disciple. It is the intention of the guru, which is the all-important issue here. he spoke with all sincerity for that particular disciple. If now you would think his voice alone is enough for you too, you would make a grave mistake. Guru is plural and always a living person, for initiation, as the sastra says.

Diksa is not to be taken lightly - it is after all an eternal connection.

 

Vaikunthanath das Kaviraj.

[Guest guest]

Preface

 

by

His Divine Grace

A.C. Bhaktivedanta

Swami Prabhupada

 

Founder-Acarya

of the

International Society

for

Krsna Consciousness

 

In ten short years, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada inundated the world with Krsna Consciousness. In the following excerpt from one of his essays, he smashes the sectarian misconception that the spiritual master is limited to a particular person, form, or institution, and establishes the universal conception of guru.

 

saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair

uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih

kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya

vande guroh sri caranaravindam

 

In the revealed scriptures it is declared that the spiritual master should be worshiped like the Supreme Personality of Godhead and this injunction is obeyed by pure devotees of the Lord.

The spiritual master is the most confidential servant of the Lord. Thus let us offer our respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of our spiritual master .

 

 

 

Gentlemen, on behalf of the members of the Bombay branch of the Gaudiya Math, let me welcome you all because you have so kindly joined us tonight in our congregational offerings of homage to the lotus feet of the world teacher, acaryadeva, who is the founder of this Gaudiya Mission and is the President-acarya of Sri Sri Visva Vaisnava Raja Sabha-I mean my eternal divine master, Om Visnupada Paramaharnsa Parivrajakacarya, Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaja.

Sixty-two years ago, on this auspicious day, the acaryadeva made his appearance by the call of Thakura Bhaktivinoda at Sri Ksetra, Jagannatha Dhama at Puri.

 

Gentlemen, the offering of such an homage as has been arranged this evening to the acaryadeva is not a sectarian concern, for when we speak of the fundamental principle of gurudeva or acaryadeva, we speak of something that is of universal application. There does not arise any question of discrirninating my guru from yours or anyone else's.

 

There is only one guru, who appears in an infinity of forrns to teach you, me and all others.

 

In the Mundaka Upanisad (1.2.12) it is said:

tad-vijnartham sa gurum evabhigacchet

samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham

 

"In order to learn the transcendental science, one must approach the bona fide spiritual master in disciplic succession, who is fixed in the Absolute Tmth.''

 

Thus it has been enjoined herewith that in order to receive that transcendental knowledge, one must approach the guru. Therefore, if the Absolute Truth is one, about which we think there is no difference of opinion, the guru cannot be two. The acaryadeva to whom we have assembled tonight to offer our humble homage is not the guru of a sectarian institution or one out of many differing exponents of the truth. On the contrary, he is the jagad-guru, or the guru of all of us,

the only difference is that some obey him wholeheartedly, while others do not obey him directly.

 

popokatepetl

the fool of Her Majesty

[Guest guest]

 

If the mantra is passed on by tape of the guru, this is as good as getting directly,

 

 

Question:

And the four levels of sound, where is it from ?

 

Answer:

The four levels of sound is a concept from the Upanishads, which is mentioned a few times in Srimad Bhagavatam verses as well. Visvanatha Chakravarthi focuses on the topic in part of his commentary on the eleventh canto. For more information on this topic here is an article:

 

The Vedic Conception of Sound in Four Features

http://www.indiadivine.com/tattva17.htm<BR< a> />

 

The way to bhakti is the way of shabdha brahma (transcendental sound).

The sound has four levels

- the outer portion (vaikarik)- that we hear it, and comes in the tape recorder

- the level of mind

- the level of intelligence

- the transcendental level -shabda brahma (that can be uttered by the realized soul and imbibe the audiance with seva vasana (the seed of the desire to serve the DIVINE COUPLE- if the one that utters the sound is a RUPA-ANUGA.)

 

the neophythe

[Guest guest]

 

If the mantra is passed on by tape of the guru, this is as good as getting directly

 

 

Only a sat guru (the one that have seen Krsna face to face) can give the transcendetal sound.

He is the only one who can give real initiation through the transcendental sound in Hari-nama and diksa (Gopala-mantra, Kama-gayatri-mantra, Gayatri-mantra...)

 

source? please. Relevent sastra and commentry by said sad guru. Thanks

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says:

The way to bhakti is the way of shabdha brahma (transcendental sound).

 

Spoken by SBAM in Vraja Mandala Parikrama 2001:

"adau guru mukhat shravant"

Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explained in the purport of this verse:

"Srimad Bhagavata 3.9.11. (Asse zrutekSita-patho nanu nAtha puMsAm)

 

that

the path to Krsna can be seen through the ears and

that hearing must be done from the mouth of

sat guru.

 

tvaM bhakti-yoga-paribhAvita-hRt-saroja

Asse zrutekSita-patho nanu nAtha puMsAm

yad-yad-dhiyA ta urugAya vibhAvayanti

tat-tad-vapuH praNayase sad-anugrahAya (3.9.11)

 

“Those who are engaged in your devotional service, on the lotus of their heart You reside.

Through the path of hearing people see You, O Master!

In whichever of Your multiple forms they contemplate on You,

in that very form you manifest to them by your grace.” "

 

Question:

If the path is transcendental

why do you limit it by physical association?

Answer:

any transcendetal thing, comes from transcendental source;

like the sound of harinama, diksa mantras are transcendental the sound of hari katha is transcendental

the sound of srimad bhagavatam is transcendental,

so transcendental things come from transcendental source.

But, everything in THIS world is material! So, where it will come from?

Only when any realized person descended in this world

and is carrying bhakti-shakti with them,

than you can receive what is transcendental.

 

When a pure devotee speaks,

mixed within his voice

are the saffron particle

of the lotus feet of Krsna,

says Srimad Bhagavatam;

so,

sound has 4 dimensions:

vaikarik, madya, para, pashianti .

First dimension is the outer portion of the sound, what you speak, what you hear, and

what is going in your tape recorder.

Next two levels

are on the subtle platform of the mind and intelligence.

The fourth level is called shabda-brahma

and goes from soul to soul ."

[Guest guest]

In the Bhagavatam (11.17.27) it is said:

 

acaryam mam vijaniyan

navamanyeta karhicit

na martya-buddhyasuyeta

sarva-deva mayoguruh

 

"One should understand the spiritual master to be as good as I am," said the Blessed Lord.

"Nobody should be jealous of the spiritual master or think of him as an ordinary man, because the spiritual master is the sum total of all demigods." That is, the acarya has been identified with God Himself. He has nothing to do with the affairs of this mundane world. He appears before us to reveal the light of the Vedas and to bestow upon us the blessing of full-fledged freedom, after which we should hanker at every step of our life's journey.

 

The transcendental knowledge of the Vedas was first uttered by God to Brahma, the creator of this particular universe. From Brahma the knowledge descended to Narada, from Narada to Vyasadeva, from Vyasadeva to Madhva, and in this process of disciplic succession the transcendental knowledge was transmitted by one disciple to another till it reached Lord Gauranga, Sri Krsna Caitanya, who posed as the disciple and successor of Sri Isvara Puri. The present acaryadeva is the tenth disciplic representative from Sri Rupa Goswami, the original representative of Lord Caitanya who preached this transcendental tradition in its fullness. The knowledge that we receive from our gurudeva is not different from that imparted by God Himself and the succession of the acaryas in the preceptorial line of Brahma. We adore this auspicious day as Sri Vyasa-puja-tithi because the acarya is the living representative of Vyasadeva, the divine compiler of the Vedas, Puranas, Bhagavad gita, Mahabharata and Srimad-Bhagavatam .

 

popokatepetl

the fool of Her Majesty

[PN Prasad]

Yes, we need to understand that the spiritual master is as good as the Lord. We can take directions from the living spiritual master.

 

However, the problem starts when the teacher who is guiding us leaves the path, or gets diverted. Yes, we should not speak about others' falling down or leaving the path.

 

But, what does a new devotee who has been serving the spiritual master for few years do when his master leaves the path, or gets diverted? It will really hurt a true disciple.

 

Prabhupada's teachings are perfect in all ways. (I do not intend to say that other devotees did not contribute anything to the movement).

 

Whenever, any master leaves the path, it is always better to take shelter of the original acharya. They have taught by example. We can learn from their teachings and by their example. They did not get diverted from their path nor did they fall down.

 

Initiation is not just a ritual. Initiation cannot happen only by taking diksa. Initiation truly happens when love of God arises in the heart of the Sadhaka. That is the sign of the beginning/initiating. It is not really necessary that the spiritual master need to be physically present to initiate a disciple. What we can do is.....

 

1) Stop thinking/speaking about others' falling down. It is negative thinking which affects our progress on the path. Do not see anything as 'my' mistake or 'his' mistake. 'My' mistake means guilt and 'his' mistake means anger. See a mistake only as a mistake. Do not relate it to somebody.

 

2) Do not condemn or give lengthy explanations as to why you do not intend to follow other living spiritual masters.

 

3) Know that Krishna loves all of us (those who are devotees, those who have fallen from the path and all souls in this universe).

 

4) More importantly, have full faith in the master whom you are serving (whether physically present or not). Follow his teachings with total dedication and devotion. You will be serving him by doing so and he will surely respond to such sincere service.

 

5) You can also take advice from the masters who are physically present.

 

6) Pray to Krishna daily that let Him bestow His mercy on all the souls in this universe. Let him shower His blessings on all the people who have left the path and who are progressing on this path and those who are new to this path.

 

Life is too short to complain/fight. Let's live our life completely by serving Krishna knowing fully well that he will protect all of us.

 

PN Prasad

[Guest guest]

In the preface of Sri Guru and His Grace

We cannot know anything of the transcendental region by our limited, perverted method of okservation and experiment. But all of us can lend our eager ears for the aural reception of the transcendental sound transmitted from that region to this, through the unadulterated medium of sri gurudeva or Sri Vyasadeva. Therefore, gentlemen, we should surrender ourselves today at the feet of the representative of Sn Vyasadeva for the elimination of all our differences bred by our unsubmissive attitude. It is accordingly said in the Bhagavad-gita (4.34):

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva darsinah

 

"Just approach the wise and bona fide spiritual master. Surrender unto him first and try to

understand him by inquiries and service. Such a wise spiritual master will enlighten you with

transcendental knowledge, for he has already known the Aksolute Truth."

 

To receive transcendental knowledge, we must completely surrender ourselves to the real acarya in a spirit of ardent inquiry and service. Actual performance of service to the Absolute under the guidance of the acarya is the only vehicle by which we can assimilate transcendental knowledge. Today's meeting for offering our humble services and homage to the feet of the acaryadeva will enable us to be favored with the capacity of assimilating the transcendental knowledge so kindly transmitted by him to all persons without distinction.

 

Gentlemen, although it is imperfectly that we have been enabled, by his grace, to understand sublime messages of our acaryadeva, we must admit that we have realized definitely that the divine message from his holy lips is the congenial thing for suffering humanity. All of us should hear him patiently. If we listen to the transcendental sound without unnecessary opposition, he will surely have mercy upon us. The acarya's message is to take us back to our original home, back to God. Let me repeat, therefore, that we should hear him patiently, follow him in the measure of our conviction and bow down at his lotus feet for releasing us from our present causeless unwillingness for serving the Absolute and all souls.

[Guest guest]

In the preface of Sri Guru and His Grace

 

 

Sitting at the feet of the acaryadeva, let us try to understand from this transcendental source of knowledge what we are, what is this universe, what is God, and what is our relationship with Him. The message of Lord Caitanya is the message for the living entities and the message of the living world. Lord Caitanva did not bother himself for the upliftment of this dead world, which is suitably named Martyaloka, the world where everything is destined to die. He appeared before us four hundred and fifty years ago to tell us something of the transcendental universe, where everything is permanent and everything is for the service of the Absolute. But recently Lord Caitanya has keen misrepresented by some unscrupulous persons, and the highest philosophy of the Lord has been misinterpreted to be the cult of the lowest type of society. We are glad to announce tonight that our acaryadeva, with his usual kindness, saved us from this horrible type of degradation, and therefore we bow down at his lotus feet with all humility.

 

We are happy that we have been relieved of this horrible type of malady by the mercy of His Divine Grace. He is our eye-opener, our eternal father, our eternal preceptor and our eternal guide. Let us therefore bow down at his lotus feet on this auspicious day.

 

Gentlemen, although we are like ignorant children in the knowledge of Transcendence, still, my gurudeva has kindled a small fire within us to dissipate the invincible darkness of empirical knowledge. We are now so much on the safe side that no amount of philosophical argument by the empiric schools of thought can deviate us an inch from the position of our eternal dependence on the lotus feet of His Divine Grace.

 

Gentlemen, had he not appeared before us to deliver us from the thralldom of this gross, worldly delusion, surely we should have remained for lives and ages in the darkness of helpless captivity. Had he not appeared before us, we would not have been able to understand the eternal truth of the sublime teaching of Lord Caitanya.

 

Everyone throughout the world worships Me according to scriptural injunctions; but by this process of vidhi bhakti one cannot attain the loving moods of Vraja.

The vhole world looks upon Me with awe and veneration, but devotion diluted by such consciousness of My majesty is not preferred by Me.

One who worships according to the scriptural injunctions in a mood of awe and veneration attains the four kinds of liberation and goes to Vaikuntha.

Caitanya CaritAmRta 1.3.15-17

 

Popocatepetl

the fool of Her Majesty

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

1- My understanding is- No, you cannot. Because the voice of maya speaks within the heart as well. How do you discern which is the voice of super soul & which is maya devi. There have been many incidents with people claiming they heard voices telling them to commit heinous acts. Were they hearing the super soul? Obviously, they weren't.

 

2- Yes. If not a spiritual master, at the very least an advanced devotee in physical form to guide & inspire us.

 

 

On another board I saw this:

 

Q.1)enquiries; Since Supersoul knows our questions can we not ask Him and then be directed to the answers in Prabhupada's books? Did those thousands of disciples of Srila Prabhupada have access to his vapuh even while he was physically here? What has changed then?

 

Q.2) Do you think you need a physically manifest spiritual master to render submissive service?

 

I mean isn't service the fullfilling of someone else's will? Don't we know what Prabhupada's will is? This is not meant to preclude the taking of advice from those physically present also. But why say we can't serve a pure devotee just because he has left his earthly mission physically?

 

We serve his will and his will is clear. isn't it a matter of internal dedication? Doesn't Supersoul know our true intention? If you bow down and offer your humble service to Srila Prabhupada sincerely will it be accepted or rejected.?

 

What do you think?

[theist]

 

1- My understanding is- No, you cannot. Because the voice of maya speaks within the heart as well. How do you discern which is the voice of super soul & which is maya devi.

No? But we are instructed to reestablish our personal relationship with Krsna but now you are suggesting we can't do that because maya also exists. That is the conclusion of your onjection.

 

The way you discern the difference is by the grace of the Lord. It lies in Krsna's hands to get His point across to us and He is surely up to the task. Hearing the very voice of God is no problem if Krsna wants you to hear. But of course we may not want to hear in which case Krsna will direct our attention to His illusory energy as we all know from billions of births in the mess.

 

We also check what we hear with the common books of wisdom left us, to guide us, by the previous acaryas.

 

We again cross check it with our spiritual master who may now be embodied.

 

We check it with advanced devotees who we may know.

 

 

 

There have been many incidents with people claiming they heard voices telling them to commit heinous acts. Were they hearing the super soul? Obviously, they weren't.

That proves what exactly? There have been instances of so-called "living" spiritual masters who have directed their followers to commit heinous acts. Ever hear of Jonestown of the criminal enterprises being run form West Virginia at one time?

 

 

2- Yes. If not a spiritual master, at the very least an advanced devotee in physical form to guide & inspire us.

 

So who objects to listening to advanced devotees? No one I know. Of course some will have more trust in one's persons council and another will have trust in someone else. That is their business.

 

Since I am not a ritvik who thinks the Parampara is frozen with Srila Prabhupada I would appreciate it very much if people would stop approaching me as though I were. Then you might be able to understand the simple thing I have been trying to say. Yes even before 2003.

 

I don't denounce anyone for developing a sisya-disciple relationship with whomever they choose, in the body or not.

 

Another point is that guru is not to be conditioned by a bodily realtionship. He is to have transcended that but even while having to deal with it he does not confuse his identity with it.

 

Considering that a person would have to be a fool to set aside the instructions of a transcendental devotee i favor of hearing from a conditioned soul just because he is wearing a material body.

 

Even then, to each his own.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for clearing that up. We seem to be in agreement in principle. The Lord guides us to a Guru & the Guru guides us back to Krsna.

 

 

No? But we are instructed to reestablish our personal relationship with Krsna but now you are suggesting we can't do that because maya also exists. That is the conclusion of your onjection.

 

The way you discern the difference is by the grace of the Lord. It lies in Krsna's hands to get His point across to us and He is surely up to the task. Hearing the very voice of God is no problem if Krsna wants you to hear. But of course we may not want to hear in which case Krsna will direct our attention to His illusory energy as we all know from billions of births in the mess.

 

We also check what we hear with the common books of wisdom left us, to guide us, by the previous acaryas.

 

We again cross check it with our spiritual master who may now be embodied.

 

We check it with advanced devotees who we may know.

 

 

That proves what exactly? There have been instances of so-called "living" spiritual masters who have directed their followers to commit heinous acts. Ever hear of Jonestown of the criminal enterprises being run form West Virginia at one time?

 

 

 

So who objects to listening to advanced devotees? No one I know. Of course some will have more trust in one's persons council and another will have trust in someone else. That is their business.

 

Since I am not a ritvik who thinks the Parampara is frozen with Srila Prabhupada I would appreciate it very much if people would stop approaching me as though I were. Then you might be able to understand the simple thing I have been trying to say. Yes even before 2003.

 

I don't denounce anyone for developing a sisya-disciple relationship with whomever they choose, in the body or not.

 

Another point is that guru is not to be conditioned by a bodily realtionship. He is to have transcended that but even while having to deal with it he does not confuse his identity with it.

 

Considering that a person would have to be a fool to set aside the instructions of a transcendental devotee i favor of hearing from a conditioned soul just because he is wearing a material body.

 

Even then, to each his own.

[cbrahma]

 

If one has not recieved Hari Nama from a living guru he should do so.

 

- Alannatha Das

Is this diksa? I know in ISKCON there are two initiations one for hare-nama and one for gayatri.

Are these both diksa? Why is there a need for two diksa initiations. I thought the diska guru had to be one person.

[Guest guest]

 

Is this diksa? I know in ISKCON there are two initiations one for hare-nama and one for gayatri.

Are these both diksa? Why is there a need for two diksa initiations. I thought the diska guru had to be one person.

 

Allannatha received initiation by Prabhupada but later was re-initiated by Srila Sridhar Maharaja and is today known as Paramadvaiti Swami. After having received initiation twice he must know the right answer?

[cbrahma]

What is the answer? Which is diksa? Does the fact that Srila Sridar 're-initiated' somebody authorize the process?

 

 

Allannatha received initiation by Prabhupada but later was re-initiated by Srila Sridhar Maharaja and is today known as Paramadvaiti Swami. After having received initiation twice he must know the right answer?

[Guest guest]

I'm sure we can find justification in the Sastra if necessary but just the fact that Srila Sridhara Maharaja was a pure devotee of the Lord is enough that it is authorized.

 

 

What is the answer? Which is diksa? Does the fact that Srila Sridar 're-initiated' somebody authorize the process?

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Allannatha received initiation by Prabhupada but later was re-initiated by Srila Sridhar Maharaja and is today known as Paramadvaiti Swami. After having received initiation twice he must know the right answer?

Sripad Paramadvaiti Maharaja received both hari nama (first initiation and the name Alanatha Prabhu) and diksa mantras (second initiation) from Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

A few years after the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada he received sannyasa (sannyasa mantras and had the name Swami Maharaja appended to Alanatha) from an ISKCON guru and was then was rejected by that guru when he took shelter of Srila Sridhar Maharaja. He then took sannyasa (sannyasa mantras and The name Bhakti Aloka Paramadvaiti Maharaja ) from his siksa guru, Srila Sridhar Maharaja. Srila Sridhar Maharaja received the sannyasa mantras directly from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. He gave the sannyasa mantras to Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja who in turn gave then to Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

[Shakti-Fan]

PS The Alanatha das quoted is most likely not Paramadvaiti Maharaja.

[Guest guest]

Q1) If Supersoul whatever can we just listen to Him?

 

Yes and receive nice answers like George Dubya Bush did when God told him to invade Iraq, against the advice of people like the Pope of the Holy Roman Catholic Chuch and the eccelesiatical heads of the branch of Christianity to which George Dubya Bush and his family belongs.

 

I believe the gold standard in Gaudiya Vaisnavism is Guru, Sadhu, and Sastra. So don't forget the Sadhu part of the equation, even if your Guru is Chaitya Guru. Of course that is where it gets tricky as George Dubya Bush had his own "sadhus" that he listened to as the fellow who wrote the Left Behind series and Pat Robertson.

 

 

Q2) Do you think you need a physically manifets SM to render service?

 

Not so much render service but to get "in-your-face" feedback. I am really suspicious of people who tell others all about how to be spiritual but they haven't had any association of sadhus ever or in decades. It makes me wonder why they are avoiding this intrinsic part of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

 

The esoteric reason why in Hinduism you are encouraged to have the association of Guru and Sadhu is to get their darshan. That is the only reason why really. They are vibrating on a certain level and if you have their darshan two things happen:

 

one is they assess you by how you do your prostrations, how you speak to them and interact with them. Then by how they speak to you in return you

can get some feedback as to whether or not they are even a sadhu in the first place. And if they are a sadhu by how they interact with you, you can get some feedback as to where you are on the path by what they tell you personally and in private especially when you have a one-on-one darshan with them.

 

The second thing that if they have any potency at all and they are pleased with you that you are helping them to fulfill their mano bhistam then by the sadhu's heart melting with gratitude, love, and affection towards you, you can receive many many incredible blessings on the inner planes where, as you mentioned, all of the action takes place.

 

By avoiding sadhus it is sort of like saying, "Well I made my granny happy when she was alive, I sent her a Christmas card every year and I read granny's ethical will aka her autobiography and all of the letters ahe ever wrote to the family." But yeah, man: what about visiting your granny? As well as your aunts and uncles and cousins and parents and grand-dad etc. while they are still alive? Hello!

 

By having the darshan of sadhus then you first of all create samskaras or impressions on your mind. By these samskaras then you will have many memories of things that were said and done that are not in any books. In essence you are writing your own personalized Lilamrta by interacting with sadhus. Then when the going gets tough or in your daily life you have wonderful very deep and heavy impressions that are in my opinion impossible to obtain from books.

 

It is like reading about a four star restaurant and then actually going to one, the difference in my opinion. So if you ever have the chance to meet any sadhus you should go because number one: you can see if you are really even in a lineage that you want to be in and two: if you are in a lineage that you want to be in you will receive some really cool unique blessings that no one else knows about. And you won't have this insecurity that people who don't have these blessings feel.

 

People who have never felt a stream of blessings from a sadhu have really missed out on one of life's special experiences. If you have experienced it then you feel very secure and at peace with yourself if it is positive. This really helps in your cultivation of bhakti because when you feel secure within yourself then you don't feel the need to chop down others to build yourself up. You can even encourage others when you receive the equivalent of spiritual good self esteem from the blessings of sants and sadhus.

 

The sants and sadhus don't need anything from us. But it's nice to interact with them if you get the chance to do so. And you might have to kiss alot of frogs before you find your prince, not literally of course but in the course of

finding really nice people you might experience some really nasty ones first.

The same as in any field of endeavor like finding a good dentist or preschool.