? on diksa

[cbrahma]

Not speculation. A logical consequence.

 

 

More speculation.

[Guest guest]

You don't seem to want to understand. I rest my case.

 

 

Not speculation. A logical consequence.

[cbrahma]

that logic right Tweedledum?

 

You don't seem to want to understand. I rest my case.

[Guest guest]

 

So far the only personality in my experience that meets the criteria is Prabhupada. Now that I've found the gold, why do I need to keep searching?

 

The reason is quite obvious. We all agree that Sanatana Goswami is a sadhu, that Krsnadasa Kaviraja is a sadhu, that Srila Prabhupada is a sadhu, that Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakur is a sadhu - etc. We are fortunate to be able to associate with them through their writings and if we look closely in those writings the need for association of sadhus is glaringly apparent. If your not seeking out sadhu sanga, what type of sanga are you involved in and seeking out?

 

A devotee should always be looking for a sadhu to associate with. We are all keeping company with someone - who are our associates? Are we keeping good company? Are we following Rupa Goswami's instructions to seek out more advanced vaishnavas to associate with so that we can progress?

 

These are elementary points and really don't need to be gone over and over. Someone who wants to be Krsna's devotee will always and forever be looking to associate with those who are dear to him.

 

Another point to consider for yourself or anyone else who is interested in Krsna is this: if Srila Prabhupada has so many disciples but none of them (in your experience to date) are sadhus then what is the prospect for you in following his instructions? If so many people came forward and are following for 30 to forty years and they still are not good company (read here - have not developed themselves through practice and mercy to be regarded as sadhus) where will you find good company? How will you ever become good company for others?

[Guruvani]

 

 

A devotee should always be looking for a sadhu to associate with. We are all keeping company with someone - who are our associates? Are we keeping good company? Are we following Rupa Goswami's instructions to seek out more advanced vaishnavas to associate with so that we can progress?

 

It's also quite obvious that your concept of association is limited to the idea of physical proximity to a devotee or a sadhu.

 

In fact, this PHYSICAL association is the most superficial and superfluous form of association that in many ways it doesn't even count as "association".

 

The most intimate association with the great devotees is by associating with their teachings and writings.

By reading the writings of the great devotees we get the most intimate connection with them on the most fundamental platform.

 

Being in the physical proximity of the sadhu is often times a pathetic excuse for associating with the spiritual master.

It is many times just a hoax form of association.

Anyone who thinks that physical proximity is tantamount to association is suffering from a most absurd notion of sadhu sanga.

[Guest guest]

 

It's also quite obvious that your concept of association is limited to the idea of physical proximity to a devotee or a sadhu.

 

In fact, this PHYSICAL association is the most superficial and superfluous form of association that in many ways it doesn't even count as "association".

 

The most intimate association with the great devotees is by associating with their teachings and writings.

By reading the writings of the great devotees we get the most intimate connection with them on the most fundamental platform.

 

Being in the physical proximity of the sadhu is often times a pathetic excuse for associating with the spiritual master.

It is many times just a hoax form of association.

Anyone who thinks that physical proximity is tantamount to association is suffering from a most absurd notion of sadhu sanga.

 

 

"One certainly cannot get complete knowledge from only one guru."

 

(Srimad Bhagavatam 11.9.31)

[Guest guest]

"Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul, He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a spiritual master is none other than Krsna Himself."

 

Purport

 

It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krsna sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Krsna, who is seated as the spiritual master within the heart of the living entity.

 

(Sri Chaitanya Caritamrta Adi-lila 1.58)

[Guest guest]

 

"Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul, He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a spiritual master is none other than Krsna Himself."

 

Purport

 

It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krsna sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Krsna, who is seated as the spiritual master within the heart of the living entity.

 

(Sri Chaitanya Caritamrta Adi-lila 1.58)

 

 

"The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul"

 

Is Srila Prabhupada in his living form visible to anyone of us through our external senses now that he has disappeared?

 

If he is not visible, we need to find a visible preceptor who can connect us with the aprakrta form of Godhead.

[theist]

 

These are elementary points and really don't need to be gone over and over. Someone who wants to be Krsna's devotee will always and forever be looking to associate with those who are dear to him.

 

The point you seem to be continually missing is like cbrahma said, he has found gold in Srila Prabhupada so why should he keep searching. The next stage is to mine the gold.

 

Why you cannot just accept that as his prefernce is beyond me. I can accept a disciple of Sridhar Maharaja who prefers reading his guru's translation of the Bhagavad-gita over Srila Prabhupada's. It's no problem to me if someone accepts Narayana Maharaja and chooses to concentrate on his instructions.

 

IOW would you guru pushers please desist and grow up. Promote Krsna.

[Guest guest]

Theist -

 

You entirely miss the point. I am certainly not trying to 'push' anyone anywhere. The questions are, 'what is the siddhanta'? and also 'Who is Krsna?'

 

I'm simply giving a very basic answer to these questions. The siddhanta is that everyone at all times needs good association. Regardless of what Ksambuddhi says, the reality is that we do associate with other conscious beings unless we are hermits. Who are those conscious beings and what is their consciousness? There are ample references throughout our scriptures that point directly to how one who wishes to advance in Krsna consciousness should behave and what they should do to effectively advance. One of the first things that Lord Chaitanya said was that a vaishnava should avoid asat-sanga - he/she should avoid associating with non-devotees when he was asked what is the duty of a vaishnava. Again - these are very elementary points and they are indisputably established by our scriptures and our acharyas. The necessity of sadhu sanga is also referenced throughout the sastra. Why do you suppose there are so many references to sadhu sanga and the necessity of keeping good company if it is synonymous with reading books? The answer is that it is not synonymous. Sadhu sanga means associating with people who are living what the book is talking about. An advanced sadhaka can help one who is less advanced. This point is very clearly established in all our sastras. Srila Prabhupada referred to the sastra as the boat for crossing over the material ocean and the expert spritual master or sadhu as the captain of the ship. We all need expert help. Shall we all become so proud and claim that there are no experts who can help us and that all the help we need is in the books? That is apasiddhanta and that is why I keep pushing on the point. From one angle - yes, all the help we need is in the books because the books state over and over and over again the need for keeping the company of advanced vaishnavas. If we choose to ignore that point then what will our benefit be?

 

Now - on to who Krsna is. Krsna is not seperate from his devotees. That is also clearly established in our scriptures. Promoting Krsna means to promote the Supreme Person, the expansion of the Supreme Person, The energy of the Supreme Person, The devotee of the Supreme Person, etc. Where is Krsna? He is in His devotees heart - he is wherever His devotee is. Again - these are very clear points of siddhanta. It is not a matter of pushing anything on anyone - it is a matter of establishing the correct siddhanta.

[Guest guest]

naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaḿ bhāgavata-sevayā

 

bhagavaty uttama-śloke bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī

 

SYNONYMS

 

naṣṭa — destroyed; prāyeṣu — almost to nil; abhadreṣu — all that is inauspicious; nityam — regularly; bhāgavata — Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, or the pure devotee; sevayā — by serving; bhagavati — unto the Personality of Godhead; uttama — transcendental; śloke — prayers; bhaktiḥ — loving service; bhavati — comes into being; naiṣṭhikī — irrevocable.

 

TRANSLATION

 

By regular attendance in classes on the Bhāgavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.

 

PURPORT

 

Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhāgavatas. There are two types of Bhāgavatas, namely the book Bhāgavata and the devotee Bhāgavata. Both the Bhāgavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhāgavata is as good as the book Bhāgavata because the devotee Bhāgavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhāgavata and the book Bhāgavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhāgavatas. Bhāgavata book and person are identical.

 

The devotee Bhāgavata is a direct representative of Bhagavān, the Personality of Godhead. So by pleasing the devotee Bhāgavata one can receive the benefit of the book Bhāgavata. Human reason fails to understand how by serving the devotee Bhāgavata or the book Bhāgavata one gets gradual promotion on the path of devotion. But actually these are facts explained by Śrīla Nāradadeva, who happened to be a maidservant's son in his previous life. The maidservant was engaged in the menial service of the sages, and thus he also came into contact with them. And simply by associating with them and accepting the remnants of foodstuff left by the sages, the son of the maidservant got the chance to become the great devotee and personality Śrīla Nāradadeva. These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhāgavatas. And to understand these effects practically, it should be noted that by such sincere association of the Bhāgavatas one is sure to receive transcendental knowledge very easily, with the result that he becomes fixed in the devotional service of the Lord. The more progress is made in devotional service under the guidance of the Bhāgavatas, the more one becomes fixed in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The messages of the book Bhāgavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhāgavata, and the combination of these two Bhāgavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on.

[Guest guest]

 

There are two types of Bhāgavatas, namely the book Bhāgavata and the devotee Bhāgavata. Both the Bhāgavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. <b>A devotee Bhāgavata is as good as the book Bhāgavata because the devotee Bhāgavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhāgavata and the book Bhāgavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhāgavatas</b>. Bhāgavata book and person are identical.

 

The devotee Bhāgavata is a direct representative of Bhagavān, the Personality of Godhead. So by pleasing the devotee Bhāgavata one can receive the benefit of the book Bhāgavata.

 

According to this devotees who are living their life in terms of what we read about in the Srimad Bhagavatam are known as devotee Bhagavatas.

 

Whether they are members of one human society or another is irrelevant. They may be in the Ramanuja Sampradaya or Gaudiya Sampraday or ISKCON. It doesn't matter what group they are in. If they are following the teaching of Srimad Bhagavatam properly, if they go and approach a genuine, living Guru and take initiation into the Visnu mantra from the Gurum then if they follow the instructions of the Guru perfectly they themself will become a Person Bhagavata. Krishna doesn't demand that everyone in the world should follow the traditions of ISKCON.

 

Being a follower of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is not a requirement in this process of becoming a Bhagavata. You can become a Vaishnava without ever hearing the name of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, just as you can become a lover of God without ever having heard the name of Jehovah or Jesus.

 

This is the eternal Bhagavata religion. Guruvani's ritvik religion is a temporary, concocted religion that will in all probability die out soon enough.

[theist]

 

Theist -

 

You entirely miss the point. I am certainly not trying to 'push' anyone anywhere. The questions are, 'what is the siddhanta'? and also 'Who is Krsna?'

 

I'm simply giving a very basic answer to these questions. The siddhanta is that everyone at all times needs good association. Regardless of what Ksambuddhi says, the reality is that we do associate with other conscious beings unless we are hermits. Who are those conscious beings and what is their consciousness? There are ample references throughout our scriptures that point directly to how one who wishes to advance in Krsna consciousness should behave and what they should do to effectively advance. One of the first things that Lord Chaitanya said was that a vaishnava should avoid asat-sanga - he/she should avoid associating with non-devotees when he was asked what is the duty of a vaishnava. Again - these are very elementary points and they are indisputably established by our scriptures and our acharyas. The necessity of sadhu sanga is also referenced throughout the sastra. Why do you suppose there are so many references to sadhu sanga and the necessity of keeping good company if it is synonymous with reading books? The answer is that it is not synonymous. Sadhu sanga means associating with people who are living what the book is talking about. An advanced sadhaka can help one who is less advanced. This point is very clearly established in all our sastras. Srila Prabhupada referred to the sastra as the boat for crossing over the material ocean and the expert spritual master or sadhu as the captain of the ship. We all need expert help. Shall we all become so proud and claim that there are no experts who can help us and that all the help we need is in the books? That is apasiddhanta and that is why I keep pushing on the point. From one angle - yes, all the help we need is in the books because the books state over and over and over again the need for keeping the company of advanced vaishnavas. If we choose to ignore that point then what will our benefit be?

 

Now - on to who Krsna is. Krsna is not seperate from his devotees. That is also clearly established in our scriptures. Promoting Krsna means to promote the Supreme Person, the expansion of the Supreme Person, The energy of the Supreme Person, The devotee of the Supreme Person, etc. Where is Krsna? He is in His devotees heart - he is wherever His devotee is. Again - these are very clear points of siddhanta. It is not a matter of pushing anything on anyone - it is a matter of establishing the correct siddhanta.

 

No one agues against the value sadhu sanga. Why are you throwing in this red herring? What exactly is your point if no one disagrees with the idea of sadhu sanga. One strongly suspects you are a disciple of Narayana Maharaja and when you say sadhu sanga you really mean him. Are you such a follower or disciple?

 

But who someone accepts as sadhu is their personal business. And it is also their business alone to choose to associate with sadhu primarily through his commentaries tapes etc. or if he wants to follow his guru around to be in the same room with him.

 

Vani or vapuh vani or vapuh endlessly. The primacy of vani is obvious to most. Afterall the reason someone seeks out the vapuh of the devotee is to receive his vani which contain his blessings.

 

To see the bodily form of Krsna's representative is indeed glorious even without hearing what he has to say but it is not on the level of hearing and following his instructions.

[Beggar]

 

One strongly suspects you are a disciple of Narayana Maharaja and when you say sadhu sanga you really mean him. Are you such a follower or disciple?

 

Not all those who use what appears as GM terminology are Narayana Maharaja followers. There are several other large GM branches preaching in the West. Actually in this contemporary era even some ISKCON devotees use what appears to be GM terminology since it really comes from Caitanya Caritamrta.

[theist]

 

Not all those who use what appears as GM terminology are Narayana Maharaja followers. There are several other large GM branches preaching in the West. Actually in this contemporary era even some ISKCON devotees use what appears to be GM terminology since it really comes from Caitanya Caritamrta.

 

Thanks but it is not based on terminology but on message. The only people I have heard emphasise sadhu-sanga like no one else understands it or has any in their lives are those in that camp. Not all of course.

[Guest guest]

No, I am not a member of Naryana Maharaja's group but I have attended one of their programs :-)

 

I disagree with you - many people are arguing against sadhu sanga - it is not a 'red herring'. Not only are they arguing against sadhu sanga they are mistakenly promoting reading books as synonyomous with sadhu sanga - it is not! By saying that I have found my sadhu in Srila Prabhupada people like Ksambuddhi, cbrahma etc. are saying that they don't believe that any sadhus worthy of seeking out association with exist and that they feel 'safe' by assoiation through books. That is, as I have already stated, apasiddhanta. Krsna is always present to those who sincerely desire him. His devotees are here and they can help all of us. The sadhu can give active instruction by clarifying points, dealing with specific issues based on time, place and circumstance, can show by practical example how to apply the teachings in everyday life, can inspire others by sharing their heart and enthusiasm for Krsna seva.

 

I am not advocating any particular person or sanga - it is a sastric principle I am merely pointing out. Is that clear? The sastric principle is to actively seek out advanced vaishnavas who can guide those of us who are less advanced. That principle is universal. The very idea that there is no one worthy of seeking instructions from because all the instructions anyone needs are contained in books is apasiddhanta. Get it? Everyone has the books and can read them - why are there so few who are advanced by doing so? Association of advanced vaishnavas is absolutely necessary for those who are serious about advancing - that is the siddhanta established through the scriptures and continually voiced by all genuine acharyas. That is the point. The point is NOT - here is who has captured my heart and you must acknowledge and follow or else your in maya or any other such nonsense idea. Please do not miss the point - the salient point which is established through guru, sadhu and sastra and try to reduce it down to party spirit. I am talking about a universal principal.

[theist]

TRANSLATION SB 4.28.47

Being now alone and a widow in that forest, the daughter of Vidarbha began to lament, incessantly shedding tears, which soaked her breasts, and crying very loudly.

 

PURPORT

Figuratively the queen is supposed to be the disciple of the king; thus when the mortal body of the spiritual master expires, his disciples should cry exactly as the queen cries when the king leaves his body. However, the disciple and spiritual master are never separated because the spiritual master always keeps company with the disciple as long as the disciple follows strictly the instructions of the spiritual master. This is called the association of väni (words). Physical presence is called vapuù. As long as the spiritual master is physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the spiritual master, and when the spiritual master is no longer physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the spiritual master.

[cbrahma]

Being a sadhu and a completely transcendental guru are different.

You are conflating wisdom with total realization. Somebody may be wise . an authority on several topics, but not a self-effulgent acarya.

 

 

AAnother point to consider for yourself or anyone else who is interested in Krsna is this: if Srila Prabhupada has so many disciples but none of them (in your experience to date) are sadhus then what is the prospect for you in following his instructions?

[gHari]

The truth is that although we may seem to decide who is or is not a real sadhu, it is also true that if we dismiss or disrespect a real sadhu we dismiss or disrespect Krsna. Ultimately the mind and senses, things of maya cannot determine who is sadhu.

 

It's not a game or a mechanical staircase. It is love of God that is the vehicle to perfection. Fall in love and let that consume our being. Therein lies the secret, the path to the Kingdom of love, the Kingdom of Sri Krsna.

 

He will manage the sanga, the environment, the mind and senses. This was quoted earlier: "if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krsna sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme".

[theist]

 

The truth is that although we may seem to decide who is or is not a real sadhu, it is also true that if we dismiss or disrespect a real sadhu we dismiss or disrespect Krsna. Ultimately the mind and senses, things of maya cannot determine who is sadhu.

 

It's not a game or a mechanical staircase. It is love of God that is the vehicle to perfection. Fall in love and let that consume our being. Therein lies the secret, the path to the Kingdom of love, the Kingdom of Sri Krsna.

 

He will manage the sanga, the environment, the mind and senses. This was quoted earlier: "if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krsna sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme".

From this I can see that my real search is internal. If I can find some sincerity within Krsna will be pleased to send His sadhu into my life and also give me the eyes to sees him.

 

There is nothing about Krsna sending someone to constantly tell me I need a sadhu over and over again. If we are sincere Krsna will send a real sadhu.

 

Simple prescription. It is up to each of us to find that needed sincerity.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Being a sadhu and a completely transcendental guru are different.

You are conflating wisdom with total realization. Somebody may be wise . an authority on several topics, but not a self-effulgent acarya.

We are told,"guru sadhu sastra cite te koriya aikya". Guru, sadhu and sastra are our divine guides and saviours and they are on the same level. The word sadhu comes from the word sat. (sat - sad). All three are achyuta or infallable, from the transcendental plane. InFALLable - real sadhus and gurus don't fall down. If a sadhu receives the inspiration and authorization he may become someones diksa guru.

[Guest guest]

I agree with what this guest has posted. Most of these ritviks and the ones that have ritvik tendencies pretty much dismiss the need for genuine Vaisnava association. To think that one can advance without proper association using just books is not just foolish, it's arrogant as well.

 

It is undeniable that books are very important. else, Srila Prabhupada wouldn't have exepnded so much effort in producting all these books. But books are to read and understood in the association of Vaisnavas, advanced ones preferrably.

 

The book-vadis produce quotes out of context to prove their point. But the commentary of Srila Prabhupada is to be taken in full, not just out of context sections that proves one's point. Else it becomes the story of the farmer who thought it better to cut off the hen's head so he could make a bigger profits from the eggs and not have to feed the hen.

 

 

No, I am not a member of Naryana Maharaja's group but I have attended one of their programs :-)

 

I disagree with you - many people are arguing against sadhu sanga - it is not a 'red herring'. Not only are they arguing against sadhu sanga they are mistakenly promoting reading books as synonyomous with sadhu sanga - it is not! By saying that I have found my sadhu in Srila Prabhupada people like Ksambuddhi, cbrahma etc. are saying that they don't believe that any sadhus worthy of seeking out association with exist and that they feel 'safe' by assoiation through books. That is, as I have already stated, apasiddhanta. Krsna is always present to those who sincerely desire him. His devotees are here and they can help all of us. The sadhu can give active instruction by clarifying points, dealing with specific issues based on time, place and circumstance, can show by practical example how to apply the teachings in everyday life, can inspire others by sharing their heart and enthusiasm for Krsna seva.

 

I am not advocating any particular person or sanga - it is a sastric principle I am merely pointing out. Is that clear? The sastric principle is to actively seek out advanced vaishnavas who can guide those of us who are less advanced. That principle is universal. The very idea that there is no one worthy of seeking instructions from because all the instructions anyone needs are contained in books is apasiddhanta. Get it? Everyone has the books and can read them - why are there so few who are advanced by doing so? Association of advanced vaishnavas is absolutely necessary for those who are serious about advancing - that is the siddhanta established through the scriptures and continually voiced by all genuine acharyas. That is the point. The point is NOT - here is who has captured my heart and you must acknowledge and follow or else your in maya or any other such nonsense idea. Please do not miss the point - the salient point which is established through guru, sadhu and sastra and try to reduce it down to party spirit. I am talking about a universal principal.

[Guest guest]

 

We are told,"guru sadhu sastra cite te koriya aikya". Guru, sadhu and sastra are our divine guides and saviours and they are on the same level. The word sadhu comes from the word sat. (sat - sad). All three are achyuta or infallable, from the transcendental plane. InFALLable - real sadhus and gurus don't fall down. If a sadhu receives the inspiration and authorization he may become someones diksa guru.

 

 

How many times has Prabhupada insisted on his vani?

Quote:

1970 September 14 : "Now you GBC consult my oral instruction as well as my books and get clear and strong idea, then there will be no disturbance. Disturbance is caused by ignorance; where there is no ignorance, there is no disturbance."

Prabhupada Letters :: 1970

 

This is what happens when one does not have a siksa guru to guide one when one in an immature stage of devotional service. Instead of consulting the "oral instruction" they consult imaginary instructions.

[Shakti-Fan]

<center> <tt>Introduction</tt> </center>

<center> by </center>

<center> His Divine Grace

Bhakti Raksaka

Srila Sridhara

Deva Goswami </center>

<center> Founder-Acarya

of

Sri Chaitanya

Saraswat Math </center> To err is human. To err is inevitable for all, being not perfect. Still, no one wants to remain imperfect. There is an element within all that is animate that tends towards perfection. If it were not so, we would feel no want at all. Our tendency towards perfection is certainly very weak and limited; otherwise we could attain the goal at once. Our limited capacity and tendency for perfection makes room for the guide or guru.

The imperfect is not so if it is not in need of help, and that also from beyond itself. The perfect is not perfect if He cannot assert Himself or help others, and that too, of His own accord. So the guidance to perfection or Absolute Truth is necessarily a function of the absolute Himself, and the divine agent through whom this function manifests is Sri Guru or the divine guide.

For a seeker of the Absolute Truth, submission to the guru is unavoidable. A class of thinkers believes, however, that when scientific research is possible, why cannot higher spiritual knowledge also be evolved from within? Such people are ignorant of the most essential nature of absolute Knowledge, that He alone is the Aksolute Subject and all else including ourselves constitutionally stand only as an object to His omniscient vision. It is impossible for the eye to see the mind; it can have some connection with the mind only when the latter cares to mind it. In a similar way, our connection with absolute knowledge depends mainly on His sweet will. We must solely depend on His agent, or the spiritual master, through whom He likes to distribute Himself.

Our human society with its finest culture forms but an infinitesimal part of the dynamic absolute. How, except by the direct and positive method of revelation, dare we hope to comprehend or evolve any conception of the supernatural knowledge of the unconditioned infinite? All intellectual giants prove themselves but pygmies before the absolute omniscient omnipotence who reserves the right to give Himself away through His own agents alone.

To our best knowledge and sincerity, however, we should see not to submit to a false agent. Here of course, we can't help ourselves very much; because in our present state we are mainly guided by our previous samskara or acquired nature. "Birds of the same feather flock together." Yet, although we are generally overpowered by habit, there is still the possibility of free choice to a certain extent, specially in the human species, otherwise correction becomes impossible, and punishment mere vengeance. Reality can assert itself. Light does not require darkness for its positive proof. The sun by itself can establish its supremacy over all other lights. Before an open and unbiased eye, the sad guru (real guide) shines above all professors of phenomenon.

Sri Guru manifests himself mainly in a twofold way- -as the director from within and the preceptor from without. Both functions of the absolute help an individual soul--a disciple to reach the absolute goal. In our fallen state we cannot catch the proper direction of the inner guide, so the merciful manifestation of the preceptor without is our sole help and hope. But at the same time it is only by the grace of the guru within that we can recognize the real preceptor without and submit to his holy feet.

A bona fide disciple must always remain fully awake to the fact that his highest spiritual fortune is but a gracious grant from the Absolute Lord, and not a matter of right to be demanded or fought out. Constitutionally, we are equipped only to be proper recipients of God's favor. In this connection it should be clearly understood that an individual soul can never be substantially the same as the Absolute Person. Not even in his liberated or fully realized condition can an individual soul be one with Godhead. The misconception of oneness has been introduced from the slothful nondiscrimination of the Absolute Personality from the luminous orb around His eternal, spiritual, and blissful home. In fact, an individual soul constitutes only a part of a particular power of intermediate value of the Supreme Lord, and as such he is capable of being converted from both sides. He differs from the absolute Entity both in quantity and quality; and is merely a dependent entity on the absolute. In other words, the Absolute Lord Krsna is the master,and an individual jiva soul is His constitutional subordinate or servant.

Such a relationship is constant and really wholesome for the jiva. The apprehension of slavery does not arise because of his free choice and immense positive gain. The freedom and individuality of the jiva are not only unharmed bv surrender to the Absolute Good, but they really thrive in Him alone. Individual freedom and interest are the part and parcel of those who are of the absolute, and so they are quite at home there, as a fish is at home in water or an animal in a healthy atmosphere. But the freedom as well as all other qualities of the Supreme personality are unlimited and transcendental, and so only by their partial functions they harmonize all relative entities.

Sri guru is not exclusively the same as the Supreme Lord Himself, but he fully represents the essence of the whole normal potency and embodies the most comprehensive and excellent service and favor of the Lord. As he is the fittest servitor of the Lord, he is empowered by the Lord to reinstate all misguided souls to their best interest. So, guru is the divine messenger of immortal hope and joy in this mortal and miserable world. His advent is the most auspicious and happy event to the suffering animation, and can be compared to the rising of the moming star that can guide the traveller lost in the desert. A gentle touch of sri guru's merciful hand can wipe off the incessant tears from all weeping eyes. A patriot or philanthropist makes the problem only worse in his frantic and futile attempt to alleviate the deeprooted pain of a suffering soul, as an ignorant doctor does in eagerly handling an unfortunate patient. Oh the day when this poor soul realizes the causeless grace of sri gurudeva.

Swami B.R. Sridhara

-this essay was originally published in 1934, in The Harmonist.

[Guruvani]

 

This is what happens when one does not have a siksa guru to guide one when one in an immature stage of devotional service. Instead of consulting the "oral instruction" they consult imaginary instructions.

so, you think the books are not oral instructions?

where did they come from?