Guest guest Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Recently an indian man told me that westerners compared to indians who are born and raised in india in effect have no souls.Another indian lady told me that westerners can never do bhakti proper-they don't have the adhikara or they are not eligible to practise raganuga bhakti because of their sinful birth in a western body-at best they can hope for is karma-misra bhakti.She added that Indians have bodies designed for bhajan whereas westerners have bodies made for illicit sex: it's in their genes .How do you counter such racist malicious ideas? /images/graemlins/confused.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 tell them they're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauracandra Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Guarantee you they can't find one /images/graemlins/smile.gif Just watch them go "Uh, uh, uh, uh," /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Prakasananda Sarasvati inquired about why Caitanya chanted and danced instead of studying Vedanta philosophy. Lord Caitanya, who in truth was extremely well versed in the Vedic teachings, replied, "l have taken to the sankirtana movement instead of the study of Vedanta because I am a great fool." Indirectly, the Lord was criticizing the Mayavadis for being overly proud of their dry, intellectual study of the Vedas, which had led them to false conclusions. "And because I am a great fool," Caitanya continued, "my spiritual master forbade Me to play with Vedanta philosophy. He said that it is better that I chant the holy name of the Lord, for this would deliver Me from bondage." Sri Caitanya then spoke a Sanskrit verse His spiritual master had told Him to always remember: harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha "In this age of Kali, there is no alternative, there is no alternative, there is no alternative for spiritual progress other than the chanting of the holy name, the chanting of the holy name, the chanting of the holy name of the Lord." "There is no need, therefore, to understand the language of the mantra, nor is there any need for mental speculation nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this maha-mantra. It is automatic, from the spiritual platform, and as such, ANYONE CAN TAKE PART IN THE CHANTING without any previous qualification." - Swami Prabhupada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauracandra Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 You could try: Since you are superior for doing bhajan, then do it, and stop wasting my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 laughing long enough to respond!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif What are we robots?? Without a soul the body is just a rotting empty shell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Yes,it's as if we westerners have no souls for being so much wrapped up and rivited down by maya.We can never become bona fide gurus as we are not born in india ,the land of the great acaryas .And we should never dare preach to indians because they know krishna from birth whereas all we know is to have sex like swine.Westerners have no real culture;they don't know what is family life therefore how can they possibly know about rasa like with Mother Yasoda loves Krishna or how the gopas love Krishna.The best they can aspire for is to take birth in india in a nice pious hindu family.These are the preachings of the mad indian racist. /images/graemlins/frown.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Not replying specifically to you guest. I'm just looking at your points as I comment. ... I'm sure the Indian man did not mean that westerners have no soul literally. We sometimes say such things of mosters like Jeffrey Dohmer, etc. ... The other ideas have some merit I'm sure. For example, Prabhupada said blacks have smaller brains and bigger genetals... or that women are less intelligent. Now there is scientific evidence to support it. ... These are general comments on the bodily constitution and more often than not they apply. So what are you gonna do? Apply some artificial priniciple of equality in the name of... what? ... You don't believe the Eskimos are as industrious as, let's say, the Japanese. Or that women make as good soldiers as men. ... I must say, the fact that things have gone to hell since Prabhupada left supports these racists views. On the other hand, the Indians are now dutifully following America to ruin. ... We tend to exaggerate perspectives and put absolute emphasis on them. We are egocentric. Guess Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 How can i not have a soul? I am a soul? guess guest:>>... I'm sure the Indian man did not mean that westerners have no soul literally. We sometimes say such things of mosters like Jeffrey Dohmer, etc.<< Oh I feel better now. /images/graemlins/wink.gif Just kidding GG, I know what you mean. The whole east west subject really has no relation to the soul. If anyone is offended then that is due to our false identification with the body. I can see where it might have to do with the way we have conditioned our minds though. Afterall isn't that what causes us to take birth in a particular race and society. People take these things sooo seriously. Some years back they did an offical study on the white vs. black penis question in Europe. LOL seriously. turns out the black ones are a little longer and the white ones are a little thicker. LOL I am sure it was paid for by some chump taxpayers who now must feel like they have gained some real knowledge. But I like Gaurachandra's response. Don't tell me you are a big bhajana man, show me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Some years back they did an offical study on the white vs. black penis question in Europe. LOL seriously. turns out the black ones are a little longer and the white ones are a little thicker. LOL I am sure it was paid for by some chump taxpayers who now must feel like they have gained some real knowledge. Well they wasted their money and their time studying male body parts! All they had to do is come here to Nevada and go to certain /images/graemlins/blush.gif...well..ranches /images/graemlins/blush.gif(is what they are called here) and interview the ....er...employees. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif Geez, and I worry about wasting my time then I read about this kind of foolishness!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 The people who are trying to make fool of us when they say "westerners cannot do this or that" are literally making fool of themselves in reality. They are going against all the teachings of most of the scriptures (that i have some idea about) talk about. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 And we should never dare preach to indians because they know krishna from birth This reminds me an uncomfortable incident that happened to me several years ago in the one and only Indian Store in Reno. I was standing at the counter looking through a stack of devotional posters. They had some beautiful images of Lord Krsna among others. I was setting some aside to purchase when this young Indian man walked up to me and grabbed the posters and said do you know who this is? Well, of course, I knew and answered his question. He did this with one poster after another. He never talked to me about anything else just stood their quizzing me on the posters. Then all of a sudden he threw the posters (offensive!!) on the counter and started yelling about how we (white westerners) think we know more than the Indians do. This went on for several minutes. He seemed to get extremely upset that I was not responding at all to his temper tantrum. He finally stomped out of the store - slamming the door. The owner of the shop was flustered and embarrassed and started falling all over herself to make up for the man's rudeness. I felt very badly for her. I don't know maybe the guy got pissed because I knew one that he did not know!! /images/graemlins/confused.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I love Krishna and Living Entity, You both make good points and they are self-evident. But there are still many more perspectives. It is amazing that India has resisted so much change, given her recently histories of invasion, etc. And now there is the Western economic invasion bringing their culture in different subversive ways. At least it's hard there to find a person who doesn't believe in the soul. Here in America for example, they are so foolish to officially deny consciousness itself. Or that truth can be decided by popular opinion. As a whole, Indians are still far superior in many meaningful ways. Don't be shallow and argue the exceptions. Guess Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Even in the 21st century! oh my god!, there are still racists like that! In the first half of the 20th century (1900-1965),most of the souls who wear white bodies were being racists... In the second part of the century and beyond, most souls who are non-white are being racists... Aren't they going into further ignorance with these racist thought formations forming in their heads... They should start cleaning! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 LE, here is my take on the guy in the store incident. He was really trying to pick you up. He wanted to bluff as your shiksa guru and impress you. Failing that he left in a huff of frustration. Chances are he found his way to a Rajnesh ashrama where he could fulfill his desires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2003 Report Share Posted June 11, 2003 The problem is very simple but easily over looked. Before one can engage in High levels of Bhakti one should have understanding of the ABCs. It is very rare these days to hear anyone speak from the platform of spirit soul. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu delivered Jagai and Madai- they were addicted to sex -alcohol and riches. They were very stone hearted and offensive. As devotees we need to see spirit souls and try to communicate on that platform. With out the basic understanding of I am spirit soul there will only be sectarianism and party wars. I am Indian and you are not. I am man and you are not. I am tall and you are short. I am smart and you are dumb. This type of friction will cease when we discuss the nature of the soul. If we omit this and talk about Rasa Lila then everyone will criticize and for good reason. AlaNath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted June 11, 2003 Report Share Posted June 11, 2003 Hey, good line!! /images/graemlins/cool.gif Write that one down, guys!! Chances are he found his way to a Rajnesh ashrama where he could fulfill his desires. Osho No!!!! /images/graemlins/shocked.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted June 11, 2003 Report Share Posted June 11, 2003 I have to admit I got shook up for a little while but the poor shopkeeper was so upset that I forgot about my own discomfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2003 Report Share Posted June 11, 2003 But then even Haridasa Thakura was born into a family of flesh-eaters. He was not allowed into the Jagannatha Temple in Puri, yet he is Mr. Raganuga Bhajan. gHari das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raguraman Posted June 11, 2003 Report Share Posted June 11, 2003 Hare Krishna, Personaly I have found an average American is more polite and perhaps more compassionate than an average Indian(my personal opinion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2003 Report Share Posted June 11, 2003 I have not found that to be the case at all. Just the opposite. I find Americans to be "extremely" pretentious - especially the "liberated" women. Guess Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 if one indian said it, that does not measn 1B indians said it. most know better, like HK's. jai sri krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 this topic is so ridiculous, I can't figure out why it even has a following. it was started to insult and demeam westerners, as if easterners are really any better. nowadays Indians eat meat and partake of all the materialistic diversions coming from the west. the whole world is chasing after materialism, except perhaps the Muslims whose main mission is to destroy all non-muslim people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 If souls taking their birth in the west were not able to become Lovers of Sri Radha and Sri Krishna then why did Srila Bhaktivinode write devotional books in English? Why did Bhaktisiddhanta encourage preaching in the west ? Why did AC Bhaktivedanta swami maharaja undergo such austerity if westerners could not take advantage of krsna consciousness? Why would they waiste their time? Mahaprabhu said in every town and village as did Bhaktivinode, siddhanta and Swami Maharaj to deny it is an obviouse lack of faith and the fault is in the persons that have other views . A real devotee will have faith in Guru , Shastra, or the Sadhus. AlaNath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 3 perspectives: 1) Prabhupada said India should be the head of the social body to govern the world. 2) It is considered spiritually auspicious to take birth in India, not America. 3) India has produced the greatest saints and sages historically - Prabhupada being a hard act to follow. Do you really think America will produce great sages? Theory is one thing. Logic simple means what follows is consistent with the premise. What reality is is often something else. Guess Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.