theist Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Everyday the nightmare that is kali-yuga seems to offer a new macabre twist. If a clone shows the symptom of life we must accept the presence of the lifeforce or soul. So when does the soul enter a clone? ----- Doctors' group endorses cloning for research LINDSEY TANNER Associated Press CHICAGO - The American Medical Association on Tuesday endorsed cloning for research purposes, saying it is medically ethical but allowing doctors who oppose the practice to refuse to perform it. Policymaking delegates adopted the measure without debate after discussing the issue Sunday. "It makes a stance for science," said Dr. Michael Goldrich, incoming chairman of the committee that drafted the cloning report. The proposal focused on a laboratory procedure designed to create embryos to cultivate their stem cells, which are master cells that can potentially grow into any type of human tissue. Scientists believe such cells could potentially be used to treat a wide range of human diseases. Such early embryos would be discarded when they consist of only a few cells, but they could theoretically develop into a human if implanted into a woman's uterus. The AMA's Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs submitted the proposal with hopes that it would become official AMA policy. The proposal received wide support from doctors and medical groups including the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. But some adamantly opposed it with arguments reminiscent of the nationwide abortion debate. Calling embryo cloning for research purposes medically ethical is "totally inappropriate ... when a number of us believe that human beings start with two cells," said Dr. John McMahon of Helena, Mont. The proposal echoed recommendations from a National Academy of Sciences panel last year, which advocated a government ban on cloning to produce humans but said cloning for research should be allowed. The U.S. House earlier this year passed a Bush administration-backed measure that would ban both types of cloning. The measure hasn't been acted on in the Senate. In other action Tuesday, the AMA agreed to investigate the ethics of letting drug company sales representatives sit in on patients' visits with their doctors. Drug companies sometimes pay doctors up to $500 a day to allow their reps to observe patient visits - a practice they maintain is educational but which opponents say violates patients' privacy. The AMA opposed the practice unless the patient has clearly consented without coercion and asked for guidelines to make sure patients are not coerced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 I'm sympathetic to those who see some medical benefit from such work, but the whole thing seems creepy to me. When does the sould enter a clone? The six symptoms of life are symptoms of the soul's presence. I doubt that any of these can occur without the soul's presence. Reproduction is one of those symptoms, so it seems as though cell reproduction would indicate the presence of soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Yes, for there to be any growth the soul must be present. I don't really understand even the basics of what cloning is. Can someone(Babhru?) offer a simple explanation. This is really a bad bad sign. In the seventies the Supreme Court overruled the US patent office and awarded G.E. a patent on a bacterium, thus blurring or obliterating the line between the living and non-living. (See Siddhasvarupa's book Who Are You?) Let your imagination look into the near future and see where they are going. If they can 'create' them for experimentation then surely they must have ownership rights. They are proceeding on to the patented ownership of cloned human beings. Afterall if they can experiment on them for medical use then why not for labor use? Laborers that don't get tired for example and take all those time and money wasting breaks. And who don't complain and have no rights to demand raises or even wages. Or even human lives outside of work, like education and families. Who needs families anymore anyway. Other than the ruling class that is. The rest of us are just too well...messy. How to control population numbers? Clone the necessary humans, no more or less then *we* require. But what about the natural urges for reproduction? Condition the populace to become homosexual. Master race? Us(present ruling class) of course. Constantly refining ourselves through genetic engineering. Servant class? Clones of course. Also refined through genetic engineering and reproduced and OWNED by us through the mechanism of cloning. Afterall we created them. Right? Time to wake up dear souls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Anyone here read Huxley's Brave New World? One way to control population is enforce strict birh control, make sex a strictly recreational activity (no romance, no pregnancy), and breed children under laboratory conditions--some for intellectual work, some for running things, others for labor, etc. Beyond eugenics. Huxley wrote his novel of dystopia in the 1930s, and in the early '60s wrote Brave New World Revisited, in which he demonstrated how things he warned about, maybe 200 years in the future, were already coming to pass. Maybe someone should do an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 We know from scripture, common sense, and science that life is the combination of male and female sexual excreations. Of coarse, science has brought us the rather intimate knowledge of the sperms struggle toward the egg. Thus, the sperm has the life symtoms - which religion supports. I seriously doubt the scientists are doing anything more than combining what nature provides or has already provided and cultivating that. I say this cloning business is all . anyway. It's the demented dreams of demoniac monsters who think they can breed real-life toys to play with... another cheap imitation of God's position. Each life force will display unique characteristics, each will have free will. This will never be "clones" per se. Guess Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Now you're talk'in. Devotees are supposed to see beyond today. And you are here showing that skill. Just see the mindset behind all of this... and everything else they do that facilitates their control... all funded by us sheep... funding our own destruction. Guess Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 ...was privy to some of those lounge meetings where the gentry retire to congradulate themselves on being rulers of the world. …scene from the Titanic comes to mind. Guess Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Babhru, I read Brave New World but oh so long ago. I think a visit to the library is in order. Far sighted man it seems, Huxley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Dunno about the scene from Titanic. I've managed to avoid seeing it so far. (whew!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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