Christ in Vedas

[Guest guest]

 

Sub:Honesty with the hearts & not with the physical world.

Dear Mr.K

There is truth in what you say’the translator may be a foreigner,who isn’t even a Hindu.So what?You mean to say that whatever a foreigner translates has no meaning in it?No substance in it?

No dear Mr.K

It doesn’t matter to us ,a Hindu,a Muslim,a Christian who translates.What matters us is the TRUTH.When all of us believe in Foreign made inventions , discoveries & theories like Einstein & Darwin etc etc., as truth.Why does our hearts dodn’t accept the truth?

Just read the testimony of Dr.Srinivasa Bhattacharya down below.He is a true Hindu,a Purohit/a Brahmin.He testifies from the depth of his heart.

 

Ok now coming to what you pointed out” Jesus' death did not result in the creation of the moon, horses, cattle, or the 4 varnas “

If you have Bible with you can you please turn to Romans: Ch.8:19-21.

V19-”For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God”

V20-“For the creature was made subject to vanity,not willingly,but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope”

V21-“Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God”

 

I am talking about the real creation of God.By Jusus Christ’s resurrection,whole creation got delivered which was groaning in the pain & bondage of Sin.This creation awaits for the glorification of the re-born children of Christ when He comet the second time.Whole creation means includes moon,sun,stars and all.

Father,Son & the Holy Spirit are one.Christ came to this world to be sacrificed for the purification of the sins of the world.He is everywhere in the world now in the form of Holy Spirit.For every statement, there is an answer.But let us believe in some thing good.

 

“God the creator is One,Holy & Pure’

If He is not Holy,Pure(without sin) & if He is like us,then why should we call Him God?He should be without blemish/sin.If our Gods commit sin then there is no difference between them & us.

I think even an uneducated can accept this.

“Sarvapapapariharo Rakthaprokshamavashyam

Thath raktham Paramathmenapunyadhanabaliyagam”-a passage from Vedas.

Which means for the eradification of Sin,shedding of blood is must.That is the reason why our ancient Saints/Rushis performed Yagnas/sacrifices.But they could not perform one Yagna called”Aja Medham”where the sacrificial Goat/Animal has to die and again come to life.They waited for God to come & perform this Yagna.They were waiting.

God already came some 2000 years back,born in the central place of this World in Asian Continent.He dwelt among the creature,performed this Yagna,died,rose back to life & went to Heaven.

 

I being a creation of God connot clean my sins by myself.If I can forgive my own sins,there is no need of God to me.Isn’t it?And you talk of a Holy dip,reciting etc., tools for purification/cleansing of our sins.How can i be purified or get forgiveness from my sins by dipping myself in water(creation of God).

The Gods I worshipped before my birth in Christ,were mere just idols,who cannot talk,hear,respond to my cries.In and out of their study reveals the passion,lust & sin in them.I cannot accept them as my Gods.If they themselves are with sin,how can they forgive my sins?And we talk of reciting the name of a sinner.a God with lust, to go to the kingdom of God which is holy & pure.

This is not criticism dear my brother.This is the truth.Don’t get agitated.Be patient.Close your eyes & think how our Gods(claimed to be)& Goddesses.Their behavior,their acts.Can we find holiness in these?I didn’t my dear brother.

This is the truth.I truly accept,honesty comes not from outside/physically but from within/inside of our hearts.So many of truth seekers/Brahmins/Hindus/Muslims’s lives have been changed by just hearing the name of Jesus Christ.Why?What is the reason?

”Because he is not a Man,but Holy/Powerful God”

He is the one who changes our lives.Don’t we accept the truth?Truth will be revealed in future.The one who changed my life.The one who changes hearts, is the real God.

To conclude I will put a sentence of sense:

 

“If You and Me are sincere enough to find out the light(HIDDEN IN DARKNESS),let us ask our hearts,search for the light/truth;open both the Bible & the Vedas;Search for God with true meditation & we will find the truth”

I think apart from this,there is no sincere and honest way to find the truth & the true God.

Yours truly

PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sub:Honesty with the hearts & not with the physical world.

Dear Mr.K

There is truth in what you say’the translator may be a foreigner,who isn’t even a Hindu.So what?You mean to say that whatever a foreigner translates has no meaning in it?No substance in it?

No dear Mr.K

It doesn’t matter to us ,a Hindu,a Muslim,a Christian who translates.What matters us is the TRUTH.When all of us believe in Foreign made inventions , discoveries & theories like Einstein & Darwin etc etc., as truth.Why does our hearts dodn’t accept the truth?

Just read the testimony of Dr.Srinivasa Bhattacharya down below.He is a true Hindu,a Purohit/a Brahmin.He testifies from the depth of his heart.

 

Ok now coming to what you pointed out” Jesus' death did not result in the creation of the moon, horses, cattle, or the 4 varnas “

If you have Bible with you can you please turn to Romans: Ch.8:19-21.

V19-”For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God”

V20-“For the creature was made subject to vanity,not willingly,but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope”

V21-“Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God”

 

I am talking about the real creation of God.By Jusus Christ’s resurrection,whole creation got delivered which was groaning in the pain & bondage of Sin.This creation awaits for the glorification of the re-born children of Christ when He comet the second time.Whole creation means includes moon,sun,stars and all.

Father,Son & the Holy Spirit are one.Christ came to this world to be sacrificed for the purification of the sins of the world.He is everywhere in the world now in the form of Holy Spirit.For every statement, there is an answer.But let us believe in some thing good.

 

“God the creator is One,Holy & Pure’

If He is not Holy,Pure(without sin) & if He is like us,then why should we call Him God?He should be without blemish/sin.If our Gods commit sin then there is no difference between them & us.

I think even an uneducated can accept this.

“Sarvapapapariharo Rakthaprokshamavashyam

Thath raktham Paramathmenapunyadhanabaliyagam”-a passage from Vedas.

Which means for the eradification of Sin,shedding of blood is must.That is the reason why our ancient Saints/Rushis performed Yagnas/sacrifices.But they could not perform one Yagna called”Aja Medham”where the sacrificial Goat/Animal has to die and again come to life.They waited for God to come & perform this Yagna.They were waiting.

God already came some 2000 years back,born in the central place of this World in Asian Continent.He dwelt among the creature,performed this Yagna,died,rose back to life & went to Heaven.

 

I being a creation of God connot clean my sins by myself.If I can forgive my own sins,there is no need of God to me.Isn’t it?And you talk of a Holy dip,reciting etc., tools for purification/cleansing of our sins.How can i be purified or get forgiveness from my sins by dipping myself in water(creation of God).

The Gods I worshipped before my birth in Christ,were mere just idols,who cannot talk,hear,respond to my cries.In and out of their study reveals the passion,lust & sin in them.I cannot accept them as my Gods.If they themselves are with sin,how can they forgive my sins?And we talk of reciting the name of a sinner.a God with lust, to go to the kingdom of God which is holy & pure.

This is not criticism dear my brother.This is the truth.Don’t get agitated.Be patient.Close your eyes & think how our Gods(claimed to be)& Goddesses.Their behavior,their acts.Can we find holiness in these?I didn’t my dear brother.

This is the truth.I truly accept,honesty comes not from outside/physically but from within/inside of our hearts.So many of truth seekers/Brahmins/Hindus/Muslims’s lives have been changed by just hearing the name of Jesus Christ.Why?What is the reason?

”Because he is not a Man,but Holy/Powerful God”

He is the one who changes our lives.Don’t we accept the truth?Truth will be revealed in future.The one who changed my life.The one who changes hearts, is the real God.

To conclude I will put a sentence of sense:

 

“If You and Me are sincere enough to find out the light(HIDDEN IN DARKNESS),let us ask our hearts,search for the light/truth;open both the Bible & the Vedas;Search for God with true meditation & we will find the truth”

I think apart from this,there is no sincere and honest way to find the truth & the true God.

Yours truly

PM

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Take the Bible & read.I think that is enough for you-1st thing.

Dodn't read without understanding it.

God still loves you dear.

Use talent to lift this world which is in darkness.You have to be enlightened first.Then you can lit the light.

You understand the above.

 

I hope so

bye

M

 

[Guest guest]

You aren't making any sense, other than that it appears you are simply making excuses for your dishonesty.

 

The point remains that Rig Veda does NOT speak of Jesus or his sacrifice anywhere. The mantras you quoted refer to the thousand-eyed, thousand-armed Purusha whose sacrifice resulted in the creation of the 4 varnas, the sun, the moon, horses, cattle, various deities, etc. This is not a description of Jesus or anything connected with him. Saying otherwise is dishonest, period. Any translator who translates these mantras as a reference to Jesus is obviously ignorant of Sanskrit and common sense.

 

We know that the sun, the moon, horses, cattle, the four varnas, etc existed before Jesus. None of this is in dispute. Claiming that these things only came into existence after Jesus was crucified by the Romans simply flies in the face commonly accepted historical facts.

 

Christians have an "ends justifies the means" attitude which you very nicely display here. I.e.

 

 

Sub:Honesty with the hearts & not with the physical world.

 

 

 

Since you haven't retracted your claims about the Rig Veda, and have posted the above, we can now understand that you are prepared to go on misrepresenting other peoples' scriptures just to promote your own agenda.

 

 

[Guest guest]

the power of christ compells you !...the power

of christ compells you !...the power of christ compells

you !...

 

if the scholarly approach is "yuck", then is the sentiMENTAL

approach "yum" ?

[theist]

Don't feel like you are being rejected shiva just because I reject your mind's suggestion that I read some web site or another.

 

The question of Christ being a myth is something that to me isn't worth the time of contemplation.

 

Prabhupada says a thousand or more times he was a shatyavesa avatar, an incarnation of Krsna.

 

I simply prefer his opinion of yours.

[theist]

Angekela,

 

I understand you may not been to this site in a couple of days, but when you return would you answer my question on God's name please?

 

According to the Biblical verse you quoted we should take shelter of God's name.

 

Wouldn't that also include sanskrit? Are you saying only sankrit names of God have no saving power? Please straighten this out for me.

 

Thank you

 

Praise Christ and his(and our) father Sri Krsna

[Guest guest]

As you quote

"We know that the sun, the moon, horses, cattle, the four varnas, etc existed before Jesus. None of this is in dispute. Claiming that these things only came into existence after Jesus was crucified by the Romans simply flies in the face commonly accepted historical facts"

 

Can you check what I wrote"I only said the creation got delivered from the bondages of sin 7 awaits for the glorification when Lord Jesus comes the 2nd time"

 

I think "deliverance" has got totally different meaning from Creation in the dictionery.I was talking obout spiritual whelm & you are talking about the phsical thing.

 

I said you are deviating,deviating from the main topic"Prajapathy"

Then coming to Rigveda,let us be honest.can you tell me who is this Prajapathy?As mentioned in the vedas description of him tells that "he will be born to die & through His death whole creation will be saved from sins.He will be born to a virgin & will be crucified with shedding of blood"Has he come to this world?About the "AjaMedham".This yagna/sacrifice could not be done/perform by our ancient Saints of Vedas.Why?For whom did they wait to perform/accomplish this Yagna?

 

I know that the mention of Prajapathy is there in Vedas.Dont you agree with me?

Again another misunderstanding:

"Christians have an "ends justifies the means" attitude which you very nicely display here"

 

I am first of all not a Christian?I am a Hindu?And now as I said I am a Hindu,don't say "you a traiter".

Matter is Truth.Read Vedas & tell me about the First born of God.Who he is?Mere blaming alone has no sense.There should be some Stuff.Sir.

Regards

M

 

 

[Angekela]

 

Hi theist..

 

Forgive me, I can't expalin throughly now for I have a time constraint here...need to attend my class...

 

YES WE SHOULD TAKE SHELTER OF GOD'S NAME.

 

Haven't you heard of the Prajapathi in Sanskrit? Why won't you believe? The Sanskrit name of God has a saving power if you are referring to the True God.

 

What is the real truth about God?

 

Jeremiah 24:7 says, And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the Lord: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

 

If we are going to know God, we must give His Book and His Word the final authority over every issue in our lives. There has to be one way, and one standard for man to follow. Confusion results when one voice is saying, This is the way, and another says, No, this is the way. Each man has a different way -- his own way.

 

The Bible tells us about this in the book of Proverbs. Proverbs 21:2 says, Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts. In Proverbs 16:25 we find, There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

We must study the record of Jesus' life as recorded in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. John 14:1-9 records this account of Jesus words: " Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also; and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it'sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father....".

 

The way to see God is by looking at Jesus. This does not mean to look at His physical appearance because God is Spirit, and He says in John 4:24 these words: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Therefore, we must have spiritual eyes to see God since He is Spirit.

 

 

John 12:44-46 tells us; Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

 

John 14:12 goes on to say, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

 

John 14:13-21 continues: And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

In I John 4:7-16 we find these words: Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

As you quote

"We know that the sun, the moon, horses, cattle, the four varnas, etc existed before Jesus. None of this is in dispute. Claiming that these things only came into existence after Jesus was crucified by the Romans simply flies in the face commonly accepted historical facts"

 

Can you check what I wrote"I only said the creation got delivered from the bondages of sin 7 awaits for the glorification when Lord Jesus comes the 2nd time"

 

 

 

If you could start to make some sense, I'm sure I would write a reply to the above.

 

 

As mentioned in the vedas description of him tells that "he will be born to die & through His death whole creation will be saved from sins.He will be born to a virgin & will be crucified with shedding of blood"

 

 

 

There is no such statement in the Vedas. Period. If you can prove otherwise, I will eat my sandals. Care to indulge me?

 

Obviously, lying is not considered a sin in your religion.

 

 

Has he come to this world?About the "AjaMedham".This yagna/sacrifice could not be done/perform by our ancient Saints of Vedas.Why?For whom did they wait to perform/accomplish this Yagna?

 

 

 

The Rig Veda chapter was very clear on this. Since you didn't understand it, read it again. Wait, I take it back. Since you didn't read it the first time, I guess I should say, "just read it."

 

 

I know that the mention of Prajapathy is there in Vedas.Dont you agree with me?

 

 

 

Your claims that the Prajapati is Jesus is wrong, for reasons mentioned at least 4 times now. Are you really this obtuse?

 

 

Again another misunderstanding:

"Christians have an "ends justifies the means" attitude which you very nicely display here"

 

I am first of all not a Christian?I am a Hindu?And now as I said I am a Hindu,don't say "you a traiter".

 

 

 

Are you sure? Or do you not know how to use punctuation?

 

Frankly I don't care if you are Lumpy the Pocket Snake, Mary Magdalene, or Jesus Christ Superstar. Your claims about the Rig Veda are unabashed lies coming from someone with no sense of intellectual honesty.

 

 

Matter is Truth.Read Vedas & tell me about the First born of God.Who he is?Mere blaming alone has no sense.There should be some Stuff.Sir.

Regards

M

 

 

 

I have a better idea. Why don't you try reading the Vedas? By Vedas, I don't mean an alleged translation into English - I mean the original Sanskrit.

 

Oh, but you can't do that, can you? Since you don't even know Sanskrit, I guess I can see how that could be tough.

 

Christian fundamentalists are so unbelieveably stupid.

 

 

 

[theist]

Hare Krsna Angekela,

 

Oh you are in school. Ok then we can converse as time allows for you. I appreciate the scritural references and will look and think about them later. As I sometimes read the Bibile I am a little familar already.

 

I don't see the need to try and place Jesus in the role of His Father as he is very happy being the pure Son and servant of God.

 

Our Srila Prabhupada has called Lord Jesus as an incarnation of Krsna. He has further explained that this means as an empowered expansion of God, that is he derives his power from the Father. Didn't Jesus say that he does nothing without direction from the Father?

 

So he is one with God and yet different in that he is the perfect son and servant of God. So our goal is to be like Jesus through God's grace.

 

 

You wrote:

Haven't you heard of the Prajapathi in Sanskrit? Why won't you believe? The Sanskrit name of God has a saving power if you are referring to the True God.

 

 

One can make a case from the Bible that Jesus is actually Lord Brahma. That being from the first chapter in John in which it says that the world was created by him AND through him and he came onto this world and we did not reognize him.

 

But even then that won't really attract Krsna devotees so much. They are most interested in God as He exists beyond the creation maintence and destruction of all these cosmic worlds as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

They would appreciate Jesus more then a Brahma once they comprehend him as the cent per cent full lover of the Supreme Lord.

 

Prabhupada's students and disciples are not so much interested in those that perform various magnificent functions in the material world, as wonderous as they surely are.

 

That may be different for many mainstream Hindus. But why work so hard trying to convince them of something from the Rig Veda when you yourself said that a sanskrit name of God has the saving power also (which I agree with).

 

Would it not then be more productive to convince them that behind the universal gods there ultimately is only one true Supreme God? And if they sing/repeat/chant/call upon His name in their own language knowing that they refer to the Supreme One true God, then they will be saved.

 

This is the goal of the Hare Krsna movement. Show people that there is only one true God and induce people to chant His name.

 

Please do not confuse the Hare Krsna Vaisnava's(or any other true Vaisnava's)with the polytheistic worshippers of demi-gods.

 

I will later post a story of Narada Muni asking Brahmaji who he worshipped and if there was someone greater than him. Brahma said there was someone greater.

 

Talk to you later,

God, please bless us with your loving service,

or in other words;

 

Hare Krsna

 

[Guest guest]

 

i dont care if you read it or not, the fact is that

the scholarly approach to Jesus is what you are rejecting, good luck with that.

the historical developement of Christianity is told

by people generally from two viewpoints, those who

desire to prove the Gospels,no matter what they find,

and those who have no agenda one way or the other,

in fact the Catholic modernist movement was started

years ago by the Vatican to utilize "modern"( at the time) archeological methods to prove the existence of Jesus,

numerous priests went to school to learn the methods.

 

The result was disasterous for the church,the fact was they could find no actual proof of Jesus even existing at all, there were no corroborations outside of christian

scripture to his existence,most of the priests left the church and formed todays modernist movement.

 

here is something from their website on the attempt to

corraborate Jesus as a real person

 

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/sources.html

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/history.html

 

so you may reject whatever you want, the fact is the historical record shows one story, and you believe in another, and then you have the vision(?) to believe

that the truth is known to you regardless of the

enourmous amount of scholarly work,even by christian

priests that has been done on the subject, these things to you are ignored in favor of the sentimental attitude

and blind acceptance of history told by those with

an agenda without regard to actual history.

 

Is that wise ?

is that going to do anyone any good ?

 

if you believe that Truth is relative and not important,

that belief is important regardless of truth,

then as Prabhupada also said "religion without philosophy

is sentimentality and leads to fanatacism."

 

so what i'm saying is that an intelligent person is not swayed by emotions born of ignorance , he takes the facts

as they are regardless of previous assumptions to the contrary.

 

to say that Prabhuapada said Jesus was an Avatar, and take

that as

being your sole source on the subject is not what He meant it to be.

 

If Prabhupada would have preached that Jesus was not real,

or at best an ordinary man, then he would have been attacked by those with emotional responses to

cherised beliefs, Prabhupada was not foolish,

why do such a thing when it was unnecessary ?

 

Now though, by study we can learn the truth of the history

of Christianity, how it was formed and by who and why,

if you reject the scholars and only accept your sentimental

belief the only loser is you.

[theist]

Are you going to start following me around with this shiva? I simply reject your opinion and the opinion of those websites you draw you information from.

 

You reject my opinon. It's no big deal.

[Guest guest]

"If Prabhupada would have preached that Jesus was not real,

or at best an ordinary man, then he would have been attacked by those with emotional responses to

cherised beliefs, Prabhupada was not foolish,

why do such a thing when it was unnecessary ?"

 

prabhupada has demonstrated many times to be interested to preach only the truth, he was never preoccupied to please the audience or frightened to destroy our "western" speculations and sentimentalisms

 

you cannot understand the mind of a pure devotee, you cannot decide that srila prabhupada is telling lies when you do not agree with him

 

if you recognise that he's a pure medium of the krishna's message , better to accept it and not speculate about his intentions... of course searching to clear the doubts reading prabhupada books and asking to devotees and spiritual master

[Guest guest]

whatever guruji .

 

you guys think you know it all, you reject facts,

and accuse those who reject sentimentality

as being at fault.

 

Prabhupada did not do as you would have us believe,

he spoke to the level of his audience, if he was speaking

to Christians he would speak one way, to Vaisnavas another,to atheists another, the truth is the truth

regardless of what you believe, it is not subject

to interpretation, our belief is subject to error,

usually when we bite off more then we can chew,

so to try and act as a perfect seer of truth,

while rejecting learning as inconsequential,

is a path doomed to ignorance and failure in the

long run, better to discriminate between what

is accepted through ignorance and emotion

and what is actual and real based on

provable data and experiential realization.

 

and theist, you say you reject those opinions,

they are not opinions ,they are well researched

scholarly dissertations, what is your basis

for your belief ?

 

why accept your vision ?

is it based on scholarly examination or

the philosophy of rejection of anything

that makes you re examine your own beliefs?

[Guest guest]

 

ko bharam niti tam praaha

su hovacha mudanvitah

iishaa purtagm maam viddhi

kumaarigarbha sambhavam

 

"The king asked, 'Who are you sir?' 'You should know that I am Isha Putra, a Son of God,' he replied blissfully, 'and am born of a virgin.'

 

 

"kumaari" can mean a number of things, including lady, daughter, or princess. I suppose it could refer to a virgin woman but that meaning isn't the obvious one. I guess you could support such an interpretation by saying that since everyone is born of a woman it wouldn't be repeating that unless it was trying to say that this woman was a virgin.

 

Another point is that Krishna is the seed-giving father of all living entities. If "Iisha" refers to the Supreme Lord, then why would anyone identify themselves as the son of the Supreme Lord, when everyone is His offspring. Saying "I am son of God" doesn't narrow down the possibilities in a culture where everyone is considered the offspring of God.

 

 

[NOTE: Jesus refers to himself as "a" son of God or one of many; not "the" son of God or the only one God could ever create.]

 

 

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't definite and indefinite articles implied unless otherwise explicitly stated in Sanskrit?

 

 

shruto uvaaca maharaja

prapte satyasya amkshaye

nirmaaryaade mlechadesh

mahiso 'ham samaagatah

 

"Hearing this questions of Salivahara, Isha putra said, 'O king, I came from a foreign land where there are no rules or regulations and and evil knows no bounds. When the destruction of truth occurred, I, Masiha the prophet, came to the country of degraded people. Through me the sinners and delinquents suffered, and I also suffered at their hands. Finding that fearful irreligious condition of the barbarians spreading from Mleccha-Desha, I have taken to prophethood'.

 

 

 

This gets back to an earlier question. If the Roman/Judaic civilization around 1 AD was so degraded (as stated above), and God's representatives only teach what can be understood based on the qualification of the audience, and if Christianity is closer to the Absolute Truth than is Advaita, then does it not follow that people of 8th century India were even more degraded than people of 1 AD in Roman/Judaic society?

 

The conclusion itself seems hard to accept, as there was at least some Vedic culture in 8th century India, compared to its complete absence in Judea around the turn of the millenium. By this Puraana's own accounts, people in that part of the Roman Empire had "no rules or regulations" and "evil knows no bounds." This being the case, can we really believe these people were more qualified than those of 8th century India who were taught Advaita?

 

 

shruto uvaaca maharaja

prapte satyasya amkshaye

nirmaaryaade mlechadesh

mahiso 'ham samaagatah

 

"Hearing this questions of Salivahara, Isha putra said, 'O king, I came from a foreign land where there are no rules or regulations and and evil knows no bounds. When the destruction of truth occurred, I, Masiha the prophet, came to the country of degraded people. Through me the sinners and delinquents suffered, and I also suffered at their hands. Finding that fearful irreligious condition of the barbarians spreading from Mleccha-Desha, I have taken to prophethood'.

 

 

 

What word is being translated as "prophethood?" Isn't this a little bit forced? The word prophet has many associations in the Judeo-Christian world; its use here seems a bit brash.

 

 

[NOTE: Christ refers to the "Form" (murti) of God as Isa, so it again indicates Jesus believed in Deity worship, most likely as long as such worship was performed by sincere, honest, qualified priests/brahmana's.]

 

 

 

Doesn't this contradict many statements by Jesus in which idolators are condemned? Granted, one could argue that by "idol" Jesus was referring to the worship of false images, but in ancient Roman Empire, how could people of that time know the difference between icons of bona fide deities and false images? Surely Jesus could have been more clear.

 

 

Yes, these are Christ's 'actual' words. Anyone else getting a chill up their spine? (If not, rereard it and think about that!)

 

 

 

This person is never identified as "Jesus Christ" in the Sanskrit. That he is Jesus is an inference. Maybe it is the correct inference, but I couldn't definitely say he wasn't someone else - there are many people who lived in those times whose histories we may not be familiar with.

 

In the end though, little is said about the religion this Isha Putra preached. Good behavior, japa, and chanting of the holy name are mentioned - but contemporary Christianity seems to emphasize only the first of those three. It would have been interesting if we had more details about what Isha Putra preached.

 

[Guest guest]

"he spoke to the level of his audience"

 

1)in this way you are assuming that you are more elevated than the hare krishna audience in general

 

2)prabhupada many times, says the same thing on other religions to indians, americans, general people, professors, brahmins, bums, hyppies... prabhupada has not used too much different levels of preaching

[theist]

From Vina http://www.vina.cc/index.html

 

"If I seek the path leading to the ultimate good, I must ignore the countless voices of popular wisdom and listen to that of the realized souls."- Sarasvati Thakur, Lecture 1926

[Guest guest]

Oh..dear

You quote

"Your claims that the Prajapati is Jesus is wrong, for reasons mentioned at least 4 times now"

Please tell me who is this Prajapathy?And what,all about Him,for the benifit of myself & for the readers.

 

You may be an expert in Vedas(I have my own doubts);If so,why don't you reveal the truth to the public about this "Prajapathy" & the Yagna so called"Aja Medham"which our ancient saints could not perform & waited for someone from above to perform.

If you are an honest man,then why to hide? Reveal these things to me.If I am found wrong,you correct me.So far we came,and now you say,I am wrong,then why don't you bring the right.I am a learner.No matter who & where you are,I will certainly look into it.Be honest to the public,please reveal about "Prajapathy" & "Ajamedham".

This is a spiritual discussion,I dodn't know on which belief you are(which Ism you belong to).About your spiritual discipline in using bad words.I too can use these words like you but my belief in Christ is so strong,I cannot use abusive & nonsesnse Vacabulary like that.But I am patient enough,I will hear the truth from you.

Now please donn't escape.

 

I want to be very clear with you.

I just want to know how will you be going to the Kingdom of God?I cannot myself go there because my position as a sinner cannot take me to that Holy place.There is no entry for Sin there.By mere chanting of a lustful & an unholy man's name didn't bring peace to me or by a holy dip in Ganges or thru a trip to Tirupathy for shaving my head.

If you have found peace in these,how can it be?Please explain.

Here I found Jesus Christ,Savior of the World who came for the sinners alone,to be crucified on the cross,shed all the blood & rose back to life again.By mere belief ,today I am saved.He has forgiven my sins.I have peace in my life.

In general& in Vedas too, we say"sarvapapapariharo raktha prokshamavashyam"

Means,"for forgiveness of sins,Shedding of Blood is necessary".Blood has life in it.Is is not?

Some or most of my words you are unable to understand.I dodn't know why.I think we take everything as physical.

I will explain to you what I wrote"The world was in sin,the whole creation was in sin,waiting for a deliverer of Sin.By Christ's resurrection,whole creation got delivered from the bondages of Sin and is waiting for the glorification"

I think you will understand this.Otherwise please go through a Bible.No harm in reading the Bible.I read all because I want to know the truth.You too please read Bible for atleast countering me.I will be happy.

I know you will not.Because your faith doesn't allow you.Your consciousness doesn't allow you or you just dodn't want to because it may bring some change,which you do not want.

Bible is available in all translations.open to all.But I am sad Vedas are not available in all the translations.Not open to all.If Gods in Vedas are for all Why did they close the doors of reading them?Are they partial with any group of their own creation?We just dodn't want to bring Vedas into the light of a comman man.Please understand why we dodn't want to do this.

But I warn you,if you are sincerely searching for the truth,when you read with a meditated mind,there is every possibility of you being changed if you read Bible.

 

Bye

M

 

[Guest guest]

You have been given ample reasons why the Purusha mentioned in Rig Veda is not Jesus. Given those multiple reasons, you don't need to know who the Purusha is in order to know he isn't Jesus.

 

Actually, I already said who he is, but given your apparent inability to read and understand anything that does not fit within his myopic view of reality, it isn't likely you will be able to comprehend anything further I say on that subject.

 

If you wish to publicly retract your Jesus claims, we can progress forward in this discussion on the Rig Veda. If you don't, then, well, you're a liar, so what difference will it make what I say to you?

 

 

 

 

[AncientMariner]

 

 

 

Prabhupada often mentioned how many scholars are fools. Was he just saying that to tailor to the needs of his audience?

[theist]

 

Means,"for forgiveness of sins,Shedding of Blood is necessary".Blood has life in it.Is is not?

 

 

Jesus said to his followers "pick up your cross and follow me."

 

I rarely hear Christians quote that one. They seem to be satisfied and happy that Jesus died for humanity. "Better him than me," right?

 

But Jesus said "pick up YOUR cross and follow me."

 

What is our cross that we must bear? We must be willing to place God's will above our own. Jesus's lesson to us at Gethsemane.

 

We must be willing to sacrifice for others.

 

We must be willing to forgive those that do us harm.

 

We must die to the desires of the flesh to live the life of the spirit.

 

And so much more I can't yet perceive let alone do.

 

The VAST majority of "Christians" are concerned with the blood all right. The blood shead by Christ and also the blood of innocent animals that they shed at every meal. Anybodies but their own.

 

Yes Jesus Christ willingly sacrificed his blood for our past karma. But to accept that sacrifice and then continue sinning on the strength of that is an offense to his name.

 

If I thought you were a real Christian I would bow at your feet. But you are just a religionist pushing your particular brand. Sorry I'm not in the market as I don't accept you as a representative of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Chant the name of Christ and stop slaughtering innocent animals is the best advice for Christianity today.

 

 

 

[AncientMariner]

 

 

 

You said it Theist. You are always humble and say you are not a good devotee but I think you are one of the best devotees.

[theist]

AM, but I can assure you you are being overly generous.

 

Haribol prabhuji

[Guest guest]

"you don't need to know who the Purusha is in order to know he isn't Jesus"

Are you talking about the Prajapathy?If so,

Fine I dodn't want to know the purusha since he isn't Jesus.But,tell me who he is?Why the mention of Firstborn of God in vedas?Who is this 1st born?

What about the Ajamedham?The yagna our saints could not perform.

And finally tell me the ways of Going to Heaven?

 

Thank You

bye

M