Christ in Vedas

[Guest guest]

Hellow

chant the name of Hare Krishna & follow your girlfriends(Gopikas) to enter into the hell(Jails).

Go to hell yaa..

 

 

[Guest guest]

"But you are just a religionist pushing your particular brand."

 

that is the demonstration of who are you (not surely a christian)...... haribol

[Guest guest]

Hello Guest...

 

Thank you. I will add and answer...

 

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

No one of their gods and their idols has ever got the authority to say this..not even they claim the "reincarnation of Krishna"

 

Why don't you believe? Why don't you just accept that the only way to the father is Jesus Christ? Why make it more complicated..Believe Jesus and you will be saved.

 

Of course, believing without action is dead. But not the action of bathing the idols, puja, or just chanting?

 

He is the way...follow his steps...carry your cross with humility, don't complain, accept the trials and give a praise of thanksgiving to the Lord God. The path to God is narrow...and in this tricky world, only Him is the someone you can trust...No one...for it has been said in Matthew 10:24 - The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.If you follow the master without the authority and not ordained by God, you will always fall short. Jesus is only the way..not Balaram, or the Mother Ganga or the Dieties...Only the Son of Man..The Father's Beloved Son, to whom he is most pleased. No one has ever pleased the father but only Jesus...

 

Jesus is the truth...No one is most qualified to lead your path is only Jesus, becasue he is dear to the Father..Not Radharani..she is only one of the Gopis (Don't even know if she really did exist)...Even in Cristianity, I personally don't consider Mama Mary as the way to the Father...I respect and adore her humility for accepting the great responsibility of being the mother of Christ..for knowing her son will be crucified in front of her, who among the mothers will like it? Her humility is an example of a true devotee...

 

Jesus is the Life...through His life..He gave us life..He gave us hope. He came to suffer in this world to save the people and to proclaim that God is soooooo merciful that He the Father is willing to sacrifice His only Son for the world. He didn't came to "enjoy past times" here but to deliver us....Is there anybody from your community could ever do this? No one..only Jesus...

 

We are running out of time...Don't let the false prophet hardened your heart...We cannot go the Kingdom of God by chanting alone...that's the only action of the Unable..abnormal LAZY incapable being..(sorry I know that it is rude..but sometimes we could not be awaken by soft words only...our hearts and minds have been hardened by ways that lead to darkness)...that we thought are the ways of God but it is the ways of death...but most of us have our strength and knowledge and hands and legs...Go out and preach that the second coming is Near..The Son of man will come again and judge the living and the Dead...

 

Lastly ...

 

Matthew 19:16 - And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

 

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

 

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

 

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

 

DID HE ASKED YOU TO WORSHIPPED THE IDOLS? TO BATHE THEM? Give it instead to the poor...and Follow Him...Jesus...

 

Have a nice day to all...Praise be the name of Jesus Christ!

 

[Guest guest]

your beahviour is not of a spiritualist, you have many difficulties in listening to others

 

if you're christian... christ is not christian

 

(leave us in our ignorance or find a better way to save us)

[Guest guest]

"your beahviour is not of a spiritualist, you have many difficulties in listening to others

 

if you're christian... christ is not christian

 

(leave us in our ignorance or find a better way to save us)"

_________

 

No...it's the opposite.You are so deaf to listen to the truth..becasue the ways of darkness has hardened your heart...

 

Hard of Listening others? of what? of their way? of their way that they thought is the right but it actually the ways of death? No way..I would rather follow the steps of Jesus and his teachings..not your way..or your Godesses ways...or even the other claimers that they are the speakers of God...they always fall short...

 

I am proud to be a christ-ian... --- Take Christ on me and I become IAN---which mean I Am Nothing..So without Christ in my life..I am nothing...

 

Christ is the origin of Christians...The Christians is of Christ...

 

I am just telling you the truth..I know most of you will react becasue the truth hurts...It's your choice to remain to be ignorant..but It is my choice and my happiness to speak of Jesus...Why you want it complicated? Why you want the other way? Jesus is the way Dude!

 

And lastly..I don't agree of Religious tolerance... there are only 2 sides of a coin..the Head and the Tail..If he is not a believer of Jesus Christ...He is an antichrist.

 

[Guest guest]

"I am proud"

 

and that's enough.... bye

[Guest guest]

Please quote the exact Sanskrit mantras from my Rig Veda 10.90 posting which you are referring to. I didn't see anything therein about a "first born son."

 

 

[theist]

These are not disciples of Jesus Christ. These are simple aparadhis posing as religionists. To have a difference of opinion is OK but some have long cross past that line.

 

Wolves clothed a sheep. Their goal is to step on our devotional creepers and that is the extent of it. Sowers of discord. I am withdrawing. If Angekela or Myra posts I will respond but these other trolls posts shouldn't even be read IMO.

[Guest guest]

yes ,Prabhupada spoke to the level of his audience,

that is obvious if you read his lectures to various groups.

 

For instance what if you are preaching to people

(there are many) who have come to the conclusion that

Christianity was made up by the Romans to placate

the Jews who wer unruly and very important to

commerce(the area around judea and lebanon was the

panama canal of it's day, trade from the east came

through that area onto rome, the Jews were the main

traders having the connections and language

ability and long time merchant houses streching

from persia to rome).

 

Many scholars believe that Christianity was created as a copy of the Mithras cult of the roman elite, but they replaced mithras with Christ, a jew, to placate the Jewish

community into believing Rome accepted one of their own

as their God.

what would you say to these people who believe Christ is a myth ? would you insist that christ was real,an avatar,

to be taken as an accurately represented God empowered

being, with Christianity as being the accurate reflection of Christ's teachings ?

 

they would scoff and take you as an uneducated fool, where

would your ability be to get them to take the message

of Mahaprabhu seriously ? lost.

 

so in fact educating yourself is a good thing,to represent

the message of Mahaprabhu it is necessary sometimes to

be aware of and be able to gain the respect of your audience.

 

 

here is the mithras cult, the religion of the roman elite,

whose reflection the cult of Sol invictus was made the state religion, Constantine was the high priest, almost

the entire religion is now known as Christianity.

 

Paul or Saul the origin of christianity was from tarsus,

also the center of the Mithras cult.

 

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds.

 

He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.

 

He had 12 companions or disicples.

 

Mithra's followers were promised immortality.

He performed miracles.

 

As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.

 

He was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again.

 

His resurrection was celebrated every year.

 

He was called "the Good Shepherd"and identified with both the Lamb and the Lion.

 

He was considered the "Way, the Truth and the Light," and the "Logos,Redeemer,Savior" and "Messiah."

 

His sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.

 

Mithra had his principal festival of what was later to become Easter.

 

His religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper," at which Mithra said, "He who shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved."

 

"His annual sacrifice is the passover of the Magi, a symbolical atonement or pledge of moral and physical regeneration."

 

Shmuel Golding is quoted as saying that 1 Cor. 10:4 is "identical words to those found in the Mithraic scriptures, except that the name Mithra is used instead of Christ."

 

The Catholic Encyclopedia is quoted as saying that Mithraic services were conduced by "fathers" and that the "chief of the fathers, a sort of pope, who always lived at Rome, was called 'Pater Patratus.'"

 

 

the most popular Romanised form of Mithraism was Sol Invictus, the Unconquerable Sun, whose re-birth was celebrated as the climax of the mid-winter Saturnalia, on 25th December (Celsus tells us that in the Mithraic mysteries the soul moved through seven heavenly spheres, beginning with the leaden Saturn and ending with the golden Sun).

 

 

The theology of Mithraism was centred upon the dying/rising Mithra, emerging fully grown from the ‘virgin dawn’ or rock. The association of gods with rocks or stones is not surprising: fiery rocks falling from the sky (meteorites) and even sparks released by colliding stones would equally strike the simple mind as ‘evidence’ of a godly presence. Holy stones were anointed with oil. Mithra was fathered by the creator god Ahura-Mazda.

 

Mithras’s supposed creation had occurred in a ‘time before men’, a cosmic creation in a celestial heaven. At no time was it believed that he had lived as a mere mortal and trod the earth. Mithraism's failure to have anthropomorphised its god into a man – something which was to be accomplished so successfully by Christianity – weakened the cult's appeal to the uneducated and opened the door to the competition.

 

In all other major respects the theology of the two cults were all but identical.

 

Mithras had had twelve followers with whom he had shared a last sacramental meal. He had sacrificed himself to redeem mankind. Descending into the underworld, he had conquered death and had risen to life again on the third day. The holy day for this sun god was, of course, Sunday; Christians continued to follow the Jewish Sabbath until the fourth century. His many titles included ‘the Truth,’ ‘the Light,’ and ‘the Good Shepherd.’ For those who worshipped him, invoking the name of Mithras healed the sick and worked miracles. Mithras could dispense mercy and grant immortality; to his devotees he offered hope. By drinking his blood and eating his flesh (by proxy, from a slain bull) they too could conquer death. On a Day of Judgement those already dead would be raised back to life.

 

 

All this may surprise modern Christians but it was very familiar to the Church Fathers [see e.g. Justin, Origen, Tertullian], who filled their ‘Apologies’ with dubious rationales as to how Mithraism had anticipated the whole nine yards of Christianity centuries before the supposed arrival of Jesus – ‘diabolic mimicry by a prescient Satan’ being the standard explanation. Pagan critics were not slow to point to the truth: Christianity had simply copied the popular motifs of a competitive faith, or more likely

it was a planned takeover of the jewish population

into following the roman religion with a Jewish

God.

 

[Guest guest]

http://www.konformist.com/blasphemy/piso.htm

 

some more theories about the roman origins of christianity.

 

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/jesus_myth.htm

 

http://www.angelfire.com/wi/famtree/romned.html

 

http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

 

 

This controversy has existed from the very beginning, and the writings of the "Church Fathers" themselves reveal that they were constantly forced by the pagan intelligentsia to defend what the non-Christians and other Christians ("heretics")4 alike saw as a preposterous and fabricated yarn with absolutely no evidence of it ever having taken place in history. As Rev. Robert Taylor says, "And from the apostolic age downwards, in a never interrupted succession, but never so strongly and emphatically as in the most primitive times, was the existence of Christ as a man most strenuously denied."5 Emperor Julian, who, coming after the reign of the fanatical and murderous "good Christian" Constantine, returned rights to pagan worshippers, stated, "If anyone should wish to know the truth with respect to you Christians, he will find your impiety to be made up partly of the Jewish audacity, and partly of the indifference and confusion of the Gentiles, and that you have put together not the best, but the worst characteristics of them both."6 According to these learned dissenters, the New Testament could rightly be called, "Gospel Fictions."7

[Guest guest]

http://altreligion.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://home.earthlink.net/%257Epgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/

[Guest guest]

Wow !!!

this is enough to make my head spin

It can be taken at face value

but then what can devotee preachers do with this highly inflamatory information?

[Guest guest]

"yes ,Prabhupada spoke to the level of his audience,

that is obvious if you read his lectures to various groups"

 

this is an aparadha , you cannot speculate about the intentions of the spiritual master

 

you can choose:

 

1)i accept his will and precept....

 

2)i recognise that he's not pure.. so i look elsewhere

 

 

 

.

 

 

.

 

 

 

you and me are pupils at the 1st class, let us follow without discuss the words of the teacher

 

in your way you choose to reject the instructions about jesus, i'd choose to reject the ones about sex, another would choose to say that prabhupada teach vegetarianism because he does not know how to cook cheese burgers

 

your interpretations about christianism are simply cheap and simplicistic... and you do not understand that destroying a religion you are ultimately destroying the general concept of religion

 

there's trains and airplanes full of "so called" scholars who can give a similar treatment to vedas, bhagavad gita, mahabharata etc., telling strange stories about arian invasions and so on

 

so, better to be careful and humble and to admit that pure devotee is simply more intelligent than us and he knows more things

 

[AncientMariner]

 

 

 

I have to admit personally I would find it rather humorous if Jesus didn't exist because having grown up around "Christians" I have found a lot of them to be arrogant hypocrites but I have a difficult time believing Jesus didn't exist. Possibly I am blinded by some false sentiment and I find it quite interesting that Pagan religions have some of the same myths in them that Christianity has but I still believe Jesus existed. The information you presented is very interesting and entertaining.

[Guest guest]

I don't know, it seems a bit of an obsession to work so hard to disprove Jesus. Appears that Shiva meditates on Christ more than Christains do. :-)

 

Remember the story of the two monks and the woman?

 

Two monks were walking together when they ran across a woman who could not get across a body of water. The one monk, out of compassion, picked her up and carried her over. He next put her down and the two monks continued on their walk. After a few hours the other monk who had not carried her said, "I don't understand why you touched a woman! Why you picked her up and carried her. You should not have done that." But the monk who had done so replied, "I only carried her over the water, you have carried her in your mind for three hours." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[AncientMariner]

 

 

 

LOL. That's a good one.

[Guest guest]

Shiva, while I admit the transtions I have may not be perfect, they are close, and I got most of them from Prthu dasa's site on Jesus in the MahaPurana's. I also found that information to be elsewhere on the web (non Iskcon) and I compared them. There were three I think, and tho there may have been some differences, but not one of them went to the extremes you went. While there may have been some small difference in word definitiions, they were not so large. Mostly, they agreed. However my point is, if your purpose is to preach so strongly against Christ that you will keep all Christians from ever understanding Who God is, or from worship of Krishna, from ever attending an aroti or chanting japa, etc, you're going in the right direction. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Please reconsider. This appears to be your issue, and I dont know if Modern day Christians have done something to you, or if there is some other reason, or no reason, but it will certainly turn others away from Krishna.

 

I can't help it if you find me one of those 'know it all' Hare Krishna devotees, that is not my intent, but I don't challange Prabhupada's words of who is a shakyavesa avatar and who is not through rationalizaiton or something that makes 'me' feel comfortable. That is what surrender means, that we actually believe the words of jagat guru. Good luck!

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[Guest guest]

 

LOL. That's a good one.

 

 

Thanks Ancient. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I couldn't help it. Thats acutally what ran through my mind as I read post after post with link after link, about how horrible Christianity is and how false Christ is, especially since I personally have done research which proved otherwise (about Jesus, not modern day Christianity). So I honestly wondered why he's so into this, because I saw Sihva post similar about a year or so ago. (Nothing presonal Shiva.) Anyway, I started to laugh. That's all, it was funny to me. Not trying to offend you Shiva, as I do think you mean well, tho I also hope that along with a little humor, you will also see some degree of truth in it without getting angry. Please smile. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[gHari]

Lemme outta this place!

[Priitaa]

"Re: The Crows Have Landed

 

Lemme outta this place!"

 

What did I say to offend you?

[gHari]

It's just that we've now gone through the entire spectrum from Christians hating Hinduism, to Hindu-turned-Christians hating Hinduism, to Muslims hating Hinduism, to atheists hating all religion, and now we have the antichrists. It's like a nightmare, and yet maybe that is the reality out there.

 

No, you will never offend me mother Prtha.

 

gHari

[Guest guest]

In your mantras I didn't find.But in Vedas there is the description of "the first born" the Prajapathy.

And what about the "Ajamedham?".The yagna our ancient saints waited for God to perform.Surely there is the mention of it.Dodn't say no?Please tell me since you know more.

And again you have not answered me.Please tell me the ways to enter the Holy Place like Heaven.I want to know.I am searching really for the true/real ways I could enter into the Heaven.This is more important than arguing about vedas.

I am a sinner & I want to get peace of mind.

Please answer me & guide me to the holy ways.

 

regards

M

[yasodanandana]

"Please tell me the ways to enter the Holy Place like Heaven"

 

if god is absolute and unlimited, he is not different from his name, form, activities, environment etc.. ... actually he is his name..

 

so reciting any real and traditional name of god and living the life in a way who is favorable to this practice, this will bring us back to godhead

 

this is recommended from any path and religion.. and it is surely higher that the current, materialist, sectarian way to understand the term "religion"

[Guest guest]

 

In your mantras I didn't find.

 

 

 

Precisely. You just made it up. Hence - dishonesty.

 

 

But in Vedas there is the description of "the first born" the Prajapathy.

 

 

 

Prajapati does not mean first born. It means the Lord of creation.

 

[Guest guest]

 

Shiva, while I admit the transtions I have may not be perfect, they are close, and I got most of them from Prthu dasa's site on Jesus in the MahaPurana's. I also found that information to be elsewhere on the web (non Iskcon) and I compared them. There were three I think, and tho there may have been some differences, but not one of them went to the extremes you went. While there may have been some small difference in word definitiions, they were not so large. Mostly, they agreed. However my point is, if your purpose is to preach so strongly against Christ that you will keep all Christians from ever understanding Who God is, or from worship of Krishna, from ever attending an aroti or chanting japa, etc, you're going in the right direction.

 

 

 

I didn't realize this before but i think u were trying to respond to me. I didn't go to any extremes. All I pointed out was some possible problems with that Bhavisya Purana translation. I don't have any interest otherwise in Christianity, positive or negative. YoU are thinking I was someone else.

 

You mentioned that you got the translations from three different websites. Could you give the URLs for each? I would be really interested in looking at them.

 

Thanks