I am not this body ?! But that is all I really know !

[Guest guest]

Maybe someone can help me out here:Theoretically ,Iam not this material body of pus and bones ,but pratically that is all I really know in this life. I have no other sense of being anything other than this flesh ,skin and bodily sensations.I have no ther frame of reference in which to grasp the theory of spirit soul consciousness. Where do I start in order to realize that I am "soul" ?

[Guest guest]

you can find all the answers you need about the spirit soul in the <font color="red"> Bhagavad Gita As It Is by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada </font color> , please don't read any other version of the Gita otherwise you will be misguided for sure, You can skip Chapter 1 and go straight to Chapter 2 no problem...hare krishna

[gHari]

On a cloudy day, we cannot see the sun. But it is there. Our attachment to enjoying our senses is like this cloud.

 

We are so mesmorized by the senses, the body and things in relation to them that we cannot see the blazing sun of the eternal soul.

 

Once we begin to engage the temporary body, mind and senses in the eternal pastimes of the soul, in worshipping God in love, we begin to identify more and more with this eternal nature. This higher eternal taste gradually replaces our attachment for the mundane impressions of the temporary material manifestation. The final remnants of the cloud will be burned away by God as He becomes touched by our sincere desire to reach Him.

 

To actually realize the soul is not an easy thing. The correct approach is described in this lecture segment by Indian Guru A.C. Bhaktivedanta:<blockquote>So behind the mind, there is intelligence. And behind the intelligence, there is soul. So if you cannot see the mind and the finer gross material sky, you cannot see intelligence, how you will see the soul? Therefore you cannot understand your this gross situation. You cannot. Acintya. Acintya. It is beyond your... Anything which is beyond your conception, you don't try to speculate. That is simply waste of time. "Then how shall I know?" You know from the authority. The same example: you cannot speculate who is your father. Know from your mother who is your father. Very simple thing. But if you speculate, "Who is my father? Who is my father? Who is my father?" that is not possible. CiraM vicinvan. If you go on speculating, without taking care of the mother, without asking from your mother, if you simply want to know by your research scholarship, "Who is my father?" you will never know it. AcintyAH khalu ye bhAvA na tAMs tarkeNa yojayet.

Therefore things which are beyond your speculation, don't try to argue. Don't be foolish. Don't be rascal. How you can? Because it is beyond your conception. There is no question of it. By argument, by speculation, by logic, you cannot understand what is soul, what is God. That is not possible. AcintyAH khalu ye bhAvA na tAMs tarkeNa yojayet. Don't waste your time. So similarly, you do not know what is God by speculation. That is not possible. And religion means the science of God. Religion means the science of God. So how religion, you can understand that this is proper religion? Because you do not know God, neither it is possible to speculate on God, then how I shall accept religion? Just try to understand. Religion means the science of God. It is not a sentiment; it is science. So if you want to know that science... Therefore Vedic injunction is, tad-vijJAnArthaM sa gurum eva abhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "In order to know that science knowledge, you must approach guru." That is practical. Even for material science, you go to school, college, to learn from the authority. How you can learn about God, about soul, without approaching a proper person who knows it?

 

So that is the way. That is the way. You cannot speculate. AthApi te deva padAmbuja-dvaya-prasAda-lezAnugRhIta eva hi jAnAti tattvam. Tattvam, that truth, one can understand, how has received the mercy of God. Therefore we sing "Guru, guru is the mercy of God." God is so merciful that He is within yourself. He is trying to teach you, and, internally, and externally he appears as guru, to teach you.</blockquote>

[Govindaram]

please chant,

 

<font color="red"> Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

</font color> Srila Prabhupada says:- The Transcendental vibration established by the chanting of the Hare Krishna Mantra-Mantra is the sublime method of reviving our Krishna Consciousness, NO other means of Spiritual Realisation is as effective in this age as the chanting of this Maha-Mantra.

 

to hear the Maha-Mantra click Here /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

No, it is not theory that the body is changing every second. This has always been a contention among great thinkers, even from the mundane point of view: There is something that changes, there is something that doesn't.

 

Basically, you just need to jumpstart the soul. Just get the soul doing what it normally does.

 

Hearing is most important if we hear from authority.

 

Reading the Bhagavad-gita is excellent advice from above. I would also recommend reading pastime descriptions found in Krsna Book and Srimaad-Bhagavatam. I found Nectar of Devotion to be powerful also. All books by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prqbhupada.

 

Hearing such spiritual science and history will go a long way towards destroying material nescience. And if you are indeed fortunate, you will awaken your spiritual senses.

 

What these books do is direct consciousness towards itself. "To Know Thyself" is a famous Greek maxim. You will know when that happens.

 

Guess Guest

[Guest guest]

Who is Krishna?I mean i have never seen Krishna.He is completely foreign to me.It would be so artificial for me to call on Him in that form and character as described in the Vedic literatures. I am afraid of simply getting cheated:that is I can simply make myself believe that Krishna is indeed the Supreme Person and thus cheat myself into believing that I have a loving eternal relationship with Lord Sri Krishna. I am definitely not trying to be offensive here,rather my aim is to become a sincere lover of The Absolute Truth. Please Help !

[yasodanandana]

now you have a "negative" realization, you know what you're not...... you need now a "positive" one...so follow the Prabhupada's words posted by gHari

 

and chant hare krsna to have a clearer mind fit to learn these subjects

[yasodanandana]

if you use the logic it is not possible that this universe was created and sustains itself without a creator or a controller.....

 

this Controller or God has all the qualities in infinite quantity (bhagavan), and, if a qualiy is the source of a kind of attraction, we can easily understand that infinite qualities lead to infinite attraction... krishna means : "the all attractive"

 

so, if we start from any idea of god from any culture or religion, if we call god "the absolute", "buddah(the most intelligent", allah (the highest), jahveh (the eternal)...... all these names somewhat join in the name "KRISHNA" ... the one who having all the qualities in infinite quantity is the all attractive"

[Govindaram]

you love you mother, father, sister etc..yes, so try to love Krishna, it is not artificial, it is their within your heart in a seedling from, you have to water it by chanting the Maha-Mantra (just try it!) /images/graemlins/mad.gif<<<<< /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

From book with same title...

 

Srila Prabhupada: No! Some knowledge will not do. You must have perfect knowledge.

 

janma karma ca me divyam

evam yo vetti tattvatah

 

Tattvatah means "perfectly." Perfect knowledge is being taught in Bhagavad-gita. So, we are giving everyone in human society a chance to learn Bhagavad-gita as it is and make his life perfect. That is the Krsna consciousness movement. What does your science say about the transmigration of the soul?

 

Bob: I think... that science... cannot deny or affirm it. Science does not know it.

 

Srila Prabhupada: Therefore I say that science is imperfect.

 

Bob: Science may. though, say something. It is said in science that energy is never destroyed; it is changed.

 

Srila Prabhupada: That's all right. But how the energy is working in the future--that science does not know. How is the energy diverted? How, by different manipulations, is the energy working differently? For instance, electrical energy. By different handling it is operating the heats and it is operating the refrigerator. They are just the opposite, but the electrical energy is the same. Similarly, this energy--living energy--how is it being directed? Which way is it going? How is it fructifying in the next life? That they do not know. But in Bhagavad-gita it is very simply stated.

 

vasamsi jirnani yatha vihaya

 

You are covered by a dress, by a shirt. When this shirt is unusable, you change it. Similarly, this body is just like a shirt and coat. When it is no longer workable, we have to change it.

 

Bob: What is the "we" that has to change? What is constant?

 

Srila Prabhupada: That is the soul.

 

Bob: From one life to the next?

 

Srila Prabhupada: That is the soul--I. What "you" is speaking? You! What "I" is speaking? Identity: atma, or soul.

 

Bob: My soul is different from your soul?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. You are an individual soul, I am an individual soul.

 

Bob: You have removed yourself from karmic influences. If I was to remove myself from karmic influences, would our souls be the same or different?

 

Srila Prabhupada: The soul is of the same quality in all. You are under a certain conception of life at the present moment, and these countrymen of yours [the Krsna conscious devotees] were under a certain conception of life, but by training they have taken to another conception of life. So the ultimate training is how to become Krsna conscious. That is the perfection.

 

Bob: If two people are Krsna conscious, is their soul the same?

 

Srila Prabhupada: The soul is always the same.

 

Bob: In each person? In each person is it the same?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Bob: [pointing to two devotees] If these two are Krsna conscious, are their souls the same?

 

Srila Prabhupada: The soul is the same but always individual, even if one is not Krsna conscious. For instance, you are a human being, and I am a human being. Even if I am not a Christian, even if you are not a Hindu, still we are human beings. Similarly, the soul may not be Krsna conscious, or he may be Krsna conscious--it doesn't matter. But the soul is the soul.

 

Bob: Can you tell me more about this?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Soul--as pure spirit, all souls are equal. Even in an animal. Therefore it is said, panditah sama-darsinah: those who are actually learned do not see the outward covering, either in a human being or in an animal.

 

Bob: If I may ask another question on this?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Bob: I have considered the soul somewhat as part of God. At times I think I feel God. I'm here, and you may say God is here. So if the soul is inside me, then should I be able to feel God inside me? Not all of God, I mean, but a...

 

Srila Prabhupada: Part of God.

 

Bob: But I don't feel God in me, but God may be here, separate--separate from me. But should I be able to feel God inside me, since my soul is Part of God?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. God is inside also. God is everywhere. God is inside and outside also. This is to be known.

 

Bob: How do you feel God inside you?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Not in the beginning, but you have to know from the sastras [scriptures], by the Vedic information. For example, in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati: God is there in everyone's heart. Paramanu-cayantara-stham: God is also within every atom. So this is the first information. And then, by the yogic process, you have to realize it.

 

Bob: Yogic process?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Bob: Is chanting Hare Krsna such a yogic process?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, it is also a yogic process.

 

Bob: What kind of yogic process must I do to find out--to feel this information--to feel the soul inside?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, there are many different yogic Processes, but for this age this process is very nice.

 

Bob: Chanting.

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Bob: Through this I can feel not only God outside but God inside?

 

Srila Prabhupada: You'll understand everything of God--how God is inside, how God is outside, how God is working. Everything will be revealed. By this attitude of service, God will reveal Himself. You cannot understand God by your endeavor. Only if God reveals Himself. For instance, when the sun is out of your sight at night, you cannot see it by your torchlight, or any light. But in the morning you can see the sun automatically. without any torchlight.

 

Similarly, you have to create a situation--you have to put yourself in a situation--in which God will be revealed. It is not that by some method you can ask God, "Please come. I will see You." No, God is not your order carrier.

 

Bob: You must please God for Him to reveal Himself. Is that correct?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Syamasundara: How do we know when we are pleasing God?

 

Srila Prabhupada: When we see Him. Then you will understand. Just as, when you eat, you do not require to ask anyone whether you are feeling strength or your hunger is satisfied. If you eat, you understand that you are feeling energy. You don't need to inquire from anyone. Similarly. if you actually serve God, then you will understand, "God is dictating to me. God is there. I am seeing God."

 

Guess Guest

[gHari]

You are honest and discerning. The Bhagavad-gita is meant for such people. It is a process through which eventually all truth is revealed. You need not accept anything. The simple things will be intuitive, and that is enough to begin the process to gain control of your self. From there it is a journey to the Absolute Truth, as your faith in the scripture, the guru, and God blossom on a miraculous adventure. There is no greater thing, no greater wealth to be found.

 

You can make it. I know, because I too was as cautious as you are now. It's all about desire and sincerity, therefore your discerning honesty would suggest that you are qualified to make the journey.

[Guest guest]

Yes but how can it be something innate inside or intuitive if I have no real recollection of my being a"soul" ? Was I once with Krishna in the spirit world or did I suddenly get thrown in the whirlpool of the primordial material soup ? My identiy is completely tranfixed by materialism having been bred and raised in western culture so taking on a nonmaterial/spiritual set of strictures is a total leap of faith to say the least! Who or what will wean me away from such a dire and wretched conception of life founded solely on matter and bring up to experience my eternal soul consciousness ?

[yasodanandana]

1)science, no intuition neither faith (in the western sense), we need spiritual science... religious "faith" is the source of all the bin laden / bush / terrorism / al kaida / crusaders / inquisition things.... so espect to be simply "ignorant(sorry for the strong word (that is for me!!) but my english is not good) and to have the need to learn

2)you was in the spiritual world, but, in a way that is not completely understandable by us, you have come in this material world to try to be god yourself

3)india is not a guarantee and west is not at all a disgrace if there are sincere devotees in every part of the world

4)krsna is in his name.... as learning a musical instrument you have to approach a master (pray krsna and search carefully for a guru), learn the theory (read prabhupada books), make friends with other pratictioners (like in this forum)and practice yourself (play this krsna nama!!).......... so please chant harekrishna in a regular way (one, two, four, eight, sixteen, thousand rounds every day) and continue to chant it everywere and everytime without limits

 

the same experience of when you learn an art or a science... forget the "blind faith" and "dogmatism" approach of "traditional religions"(only to be simple)

[gHari]

When we dream, we really believe it is happening. We feel all the emotions and many physical sensations. We are not aware of our waking self which is lying comfortably asleep in bed. Our 'reality' is the dreamscape.

 

Now we just have to wake up, but the dream is sooooo good. Or so we think.

 

But it's not permanent or important.

 

The soul is.

 

 

gHari

[Gauracandra]

My opinion is you should not deny what your own eyes see. That is just because you "are not your body" does not mean that what your body tells you is incompatible with spiritual life. I'd suggest going with the old "Trust but verify" approach to spiritual life. That is, don't approach in a cynical or skeptical manner (either the world or religion). Cynicism I think is the opposite (or atleast hampers) spiritual development. Instead be cautious, and ever listening to what your heart tells you is true. God can direct you from within.

[Guest guest]

Oftentimes, i thought that is was God who led me to a certain person to take shelter of ,but he later turned out to be a cheater. So i gather from my limited experience that i must have some underlying cheating motives: that my deepest desires are not to reach God or God's love but to want to still enjoy in this world of matter -gross or subtle.I am a cheater thus i deserve to be cheated.