Going back ... this life time....

[Subala]

Does anyone has a reference SP mentioned that? This lifetime devotee goes back to krishna if he follows 4 principles and chant Hare Krishna 16 rounds a day...

 

IF anyone has folio handy....

[Govindaram]

<font color="red"> Cc. Madhya 24.98 </font color>

 

<font color="blue"> Our Krishna consciousness movement is meant for this purpose. We want to create pure devotees so that other people will benefit by their association. In this way the number of pure devotees increases. Professional preachers cannot create pure devotees...Only a pure devotee can convert others to pure devotional service.

 

It is therefore important for all the preachers in our Krishna consciousness movement to first become pure devotees and follow the regulative principles, refraining from illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling and intoxication.

 

They should regularly chant the Hare Krihna Maha-Mantra on their beads, follow the devotional process, rise early in the morning, attend mangala-arati and recite Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-Gita regularly.

 

In this way, one can become purified and free from all material contamination.... To make a show of devotional service will not help one. One must be a pure devotee following the devotional process; then one can convert others to devotional service.... If a preacher behaves properly in devotional service, he will be able to convert others. Otherwise, his preaching will have no effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

</font color>

 

 

Probably not what you asked for, but I think it's still nice to read anyway. Hare Krishna /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Especially this part where it says, " They should regularly chant the Hare Krihna Maha-Mantra on their beads, follow the devotional process, rise early in the morning, attend mangala-arati and recite Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-Gita regularly."

[theist]

Live a life in Bhakti-yoga and Krsna will carry what one lacks. No negative karma building up. Krsna says He will also protect the surrender from sinful reactions. So far so good. Engage in the positives like chanting and hearing Srimad-Bhagavatam and the heart will surely become purified and change from a lover of illusion to a lover of Reality the Beautiful, as BR Sridhar nicely describes Sri Krsna.

 

To think that a change of heart is not required and that simply by some formula one will achieve the Supreme destination without undergoing that change of heart however sounds like a dangerous idea to me.

[Subala]

sorry i meant quote going back to Godhead "this lifetime".

[Guest guest]

This is from the Memories Series. It seems to say that even if one is successful in this life and becomes a pure devotee, he takes one more birth in the material world. So if a pure devotee takes one more birth, how many more there must be for us.

 

 

Revatinandan: In Calcutta Prabhupada once said that when a pure devotee leaves his body he takes another birth on the planet where Krishna is appearing.

 

Then, when Krishna leaves that planet, the devotee goes with Him back to the spiritual sky for good.

 

So there is one more birth after one becomes a pure devotee, but it's not a material birth, because it is a birth with Krishna where He is appearing and having His pastimes, and after that one goes to Goloka with Him.

[Guest guest]

srila prabhupada is extremely mercyful but: "chant the Hare Krihna Maha-Mantra on their beads" i think is .... "without offenses"..otherwise it is not "real" chanting

[Govindaram]

Hare Krishna

 

The Spiritual Master & Disiple

 

Sometimes there are inquiries as to how one can surrender unto the Supreme Lord. In the Bhagavad-Gita (18.66) the Lord asked Arjuna to surrender unto Him, and therefore persons unwilling to do so question where God is and to whom they should surrender. The answer to such questions or inquiries is given herein very properly.

 

The Personality of Godhead may not be present before one's eyes, but if one is sincere in wanting such guidance the Lord will send a bona fide person who can guide one properly back home, back to Godhead. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

The bona fide representative of God is as good as God Himself. Or, in other words, the loving representative of the Lord is more kind and more easy to approach. A sinful soul cannot approach the Lord directly, but such a sinful man can very easily approach a pure devotee of the Lord.

 

And if one agrees to put himself under the guidance of such a devotee of the Lord, he can also understand the science of God and can also become like the transcendental pure devotee of the Lord and thus get his liberation back to Godhead , <font color="red"> back home </font color> for eternal happiness.

<font color="red"> Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.7.46</font color>

 

 

[Guest guest]

It can be done (with a pleasant stop-over in the Nitya Lila next lifetime):<blockquote><CENTER>CC Madhya 24.134

 

bhakti-bale ‘prApta-svarUpa' divya-deha pAya

kRSNa-guNAkRSTa haJA bhaje kRSNa-pA'ya

</center>

bhakti-bale--by the strength of devotional service; prApta-svarUpa--attaining his original status; divya-deha--a transcendental body; pAya--one gets; kRSNa-guNa-AkRSTa--attracted by the transcendental qualities of KRSNa; haJA--being; bhaje--takes to devotional service; kRSNa-pA'ya--at KRSNa's lotus feet.

"One who has attained his constitutional position by the strength of devotional service attains a transcendental body even in this lifetime. Being attracted by Lord KRSNa's transcendental qualities, he fully engages in service at His lotus feet.

 

 

<center>CC Madhya 24.129

 

‘jIvan-mukta' aneka, sei dui bheda jAni

‘bhaktye jIvan-mukta', ‘jJAne jIvan-mukta' mAni

</center>

jIvan-mukta--liberated in this life; aneka--there are many; sei--all of them; dui bheda--two divisions; jAni--we consider; bhaktye jIvan-mukta--one liberated in this life by pursuing the process of devotional service; jJAne jIvan-mukta--a person liberated in this life by following the process of philosophical speculation; mAni--we can understand.

"There are many people who are liberated even in this lifetime. Some are liberated by discharging devotional service, and others are liberated through the philosophical speculative process.

 

 

 

SB 11.7.14P

If we link ourselves to KRSNa, however, our relationship with Him will continue even after death. As explained in Bhagavad-gItA, the relationship with KRSNa that we develop in this life will continue to increase in our next life until we achieve the supreme goal of entering KRSNa's planet. Those who sincerely serve the mission of Caitanya MahAprabhu, following the transcendental life-style prescribed by the Lord, will enter the Lord's abode at the end of this lifetime.

 

 

SB 4.30.19P

In Bhakti-rasAmRta-sindhu, SrI RUpa GosvAmI confirms this:

<center>

IhA yasya harer dAsye

karmaNA manasA girA

nikhilAsv apy avasthAsu

jIvan-muktaH sa ucyate

</center>

If one engages himself in the service of the Lord through his life, wealth, words, intelligence and everything he possesses, he will always be liberated in any condition. Such a person is called a jIvan-mukta, one who is liberated during this lifetime. Devoid of KRSNa consciousness, those who engage in material activities simply become more entangled in material bondage. They have to suffer and enjoy the actions and reactions of all activity. This KRSNa consciousness movement is therefore the greatest boon to humanity because it keeps one always engaged in KRSNa's service. The devotees think of KRSNa, act for KRSNa, eat for KRSNa, sleep for KRSNa and work for KRSNa. Thus everything is engaged in the service of KRSNa. A total life in KRSNa consciousness saves one from material contamination. As stated by BhaktisiddhAnta SarasvatI GosvAmI MahArAja:

<center>

kRSNa-bhajane yAhA haya anukUla

viSaya baliyA tyAge tAhA haya bhUla

</center>

If one is so expert that he can engage everything or dovetail everything in the service of the Lord, to give up the material world would be a great blunder. One should learn how to dovetail everything in the service of the Lord, for everything is connected to KRSNa. That is the real purpose of life and secret of success.

 

 

SB 4.22.51P

All material changes and material progress taking place by the wonderful interaction of matter are under the superintendence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, KRSNa. Events in the material world are not taking place blindly. If one always remains a servant of KRSNa and engages everything in His service, one is accepted as jIvan-mukta, a liberated soul, even during his lifetime within the material world. Generally liberation takes place after one gives up this body, but one who lives according to the example of PRthu MahArAja is liberated even in this lifetime. In KRSNa consciousness the results of one's activities depend on the will of the Supreme Person. Indeed, in all cases the result is not dependent on one's own personal dexterity but is completely dependent on the will of the Supreme. This is the real significance of phalaM brahmaNi sannyasya. A soul dedicated to the service of the Lord should never think of himself as the personal proprietor or the superintendent. A dedicated devotee should prosecute his work according to the rules and regulations described in devotional service. The results of his activities are completely dependent on the supreme will of the Lord.

 

San Francisco March 17, 1968

Devotee: Swamiji? Is it possible for us to worship KRSNa purely in this lifetime?

PrabhupAda: Why not? Do you think we are simply wasting our time with this process? Why lifetime? Within a second you can do. It is spiritual process. It is not material process that it requires so much time. No. It requires simply the spiritual technique, to know how you can develop KRSNa attachment. As soon as you are cent percent attached with KRSNa, your business is finished. ArAdhito yadi haris tapasA tataH kim. The whole formula is that you have to develop your attachment for KRSNa. So if you have developed such attachment for KRSNa, then your business is finished. No more. That's all right. And nArAdhito yadi haris tapasA tataH kim. And if you cannot develop fully KRSNa consciousness, then all your labor is waste of time. There is no need of advertising yourself that "I am religious, I am philosopher, I am yogi." All is nonsense if at the end there is no KRSNa consciousness. So if KRSNa consciousness is there, so all these things end. And if there is no KRSNa consciousness, these are all useless labor.

<center>

ArAdhito yadi haris tapasA tataH kim

nArAdhito yadi haris tapasA tataH kim

</center>

The whole business is how to develop attachment for KRSNa. If you have developed that attachment within a second, oh, then the business is finished within a second. And if you cannot develop that attachment for years, then it is very difficult. The only test is how you have developed your attachment for KRSNa. If you are serious about it, it can be done within a second. If you are not serious about it, it cannot be done in many lives. So that depends on your serious nature. KRSNa is not a material thing that it requires one particular time or... No. The only thing is mayy Asakta-manAH. You have to develop your full attachment for KRSNa. That you can test, whether you have full attachment for KRSNa. Then it is..., the business is finished.

 

 

Nairobi, October 31, 1975

Devotee (4): If we do not finish our KRSNa consciousness in this lifetime and we have to take birth in material world, can we worship the same spiritual master as our previous birth?

PrabhupAda: Who is fallen is called yoga-bhraSTa. So yoga-bhraSTa means he has fallen from the instruction of the spiritual master. But a spiritual master sometimes is so kind that he delivers him in the next birth also. But it is not our duty to bring the spiritual master to save me again in the next life. It is not very good disciple. (laughter)

 

 

South Africa October 18, 1975

Girl: SrIla PrabhupAda, even if... All living entities are part and parcel of KRSNa. Even if we don't surrender to KRSNa in this lifetime, eventually we'll surrender to Him, each and every one of us.

PuSTa KRSNa: Everyone... Even if we don't surrender to KRSNa in this life, will everyone surrender to KRSNa? Will everyone go back to Godhead eventually?

PrabhupAda: Hm? So you have got doubt? Rest assured not everyone will do that. So you have no worries. It is not that everyone will do that. Therefore Caitanya MahAprabhu says, ei rUpe brahmANDa bhramite kona bhAgyavAn jIva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Unless one is bhAgyavAn, very fortunate, he'll not go back to home, back to Godhead. He will rot here. So this KRSNa consciousness movement means we are trying to make people bhAgyavAn. If he wants, he can become bhAgyavAn. That is our attempt. We are creating so many centers. We are teaching how to become bhAgyavAn, fortunate, how to go back to home, how he can be happy. Now, if one is fortunate, they will take this instruction and turn his life. Therefore this is mission. But without becoming bhAgyavAn, nobody can go. Fortunate. So we are giving them chance to become fortunate. This is our mission. The most unfortunate is getting the chance of becoming fortunate. Any one of us can consider this, how from unfortunate life they are coming to fortunate. This is KRSNa consciousness movement, that we are giving chance to the unfortunate. Everyone is unfortunate, everyone is a rascal. We are giving chance how to become intelligent and fortunate. This is KRSNa consciousness. If the people are not so unfortunate and rascal, then what is the meaning of preaching? Preaching means that you have to turn the rascals and unfortunate to become intelligent and fortunate. That is preaching. But unless you are fortunate and intelligent, you cannot take to KRSNa consciousness. That is a fact.

 

 

 

Bombay

26 December, 1972

 

My dear Amogha,

 

Please accept my blessings. I wish to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated December 1, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It is very much pleasing to me to hear that you are making such steady advancement in Krishna Consciousness. If you continue in this way, and strictly follow the four regulative principles, making sure to chant at least sixteen rounds on the beads, daily, it is without a doubt that at the end of this lifetime, you can go back home, back to Godhead.

 

You mention that the Indonesians inside the country are good people. Yes, try to make local men into devotees. When I shall come there I shall try to convince that boy who owns the printing press. Don't neglect the Hindus. Collect money from them for printing and pushing on our preaching work. They are able to give enough money, but don't bother to try to mix with or preach to them excessively. Real business is to convert the local men to become Krishna Conscious and carry on the work.

 

I shall be going there near February 1, so you may do the needful.

 

Hoping this meets you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

 

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

</blockquote>

[Guest guest]

Above Srila Prabhupada refers to those who will rot here. Here Krsna speaks of those unfortunate souls in Bhagavad-gita 16.19-20:<blockquote><center>tAn ahaM dviSataH krUrAn

saMsAreSu narAdhamAn

kSipAmy ajasram azubhAn

AsurISv eva yoniSu

</center>

tAn--those; aham--I; dviSataH--envious; krUrAn--mischievous; saMsAreSu--into the ocean of material existence; nara-adhamAn--the lowest of mankind; kSipAmi--I put; ajasram--forever; azubhAn--inauspicious; AsurISu--demoniac; eva--certainly; yoniSu--into the wombs.

Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, I perpetually cast into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life.

 

PURPORT

In this verse it is clearly indicated that the placing of a particular individual soul in a particular body is the prerogative of the supreme will. The demoniac person may not agree to accept the supremacy of the Lord, and it is a fact that he may act according to his own whims, but his next birth will depend upon the decision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and not on himself. In the SrImad-BhAgavatam, Third Canto, it is stated that an individual soul, after his death, is put into the womb of a mother where he gets a particular type of body under the supervision of superior power. Therefore in the material existence we find so many species of life--animals, insects, men, and so on. All are arranged by the superior power. They are not accidental. As for the demoniac, it is clearly said here that they are perpetually put into the wombs of demons, and thus they continue to be envious, the lowest of mankind. Such demoniac species of men are held to be always full of lust, always violent and hateful and always unclean. The many kinds of hunters in the jungle are considered to belong to the demoniac species of life.

 

 

<center>AsurIM yonim ApannA

mUDhA janmani janmani

mAm aprApyaiva kaunteya

tato yAnty adhamAM gatim

</center>

AsurIm--demoniac; yonim--species; ApannAH--gaining; mUDhAH--the foolish; janmani janmani--in birth after birth; mAm--Me; aprApya--without achieving; eva--certainly; kaunteya--O son of KuntI; tataH--thereafter; yAnti--go; adhamAm--condemned; gatim--destination.

Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, O son of KuntI, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence.

 

PURPORT

It is known that God is all-merciful, but here we find that God is never merciful to the demoniac. It is clearly stated that the demoniac people, life after life, are put into the wombs of similar demons, and, not achieving the mercy of the Supreme Lord, they go down and down, so that at last they achieve bodies like those of cats, dogs and hogs. It is clearly stated that such demons have practically no chance of receiving the mercy of God at any stage of later life. In the Vedas also it is stated that such persons gradually sink to become dogs and hogs. It may be then argued in this connection that God should not be advertised as all-merciful if He is not merciful to such demons. In answer to this question, in the VedAnta-sUtra we find that the Supreme Lord has no hatred for anyone. The placing of the asuras, the demons, in the lowest status of life is simply another feature of His mercy. Sometimes the asuras are killed by the Supreme Lord, but this killing is also good for them, for in Vedic literature we find that anyone who is killed by the Supreme Lord becomes liberated. There are instances in history of many asuras--RAvaNa, KaMsa, HiraNyakazipu--to whom the Lord appeared in various incarnations just to kill them. Therefore God's mercy is shown to the asuras if they are fortunate enough to be killed by Him.

</blockquote>

[Guest guest]

Krsna in the next three verses kindly shows us how to avoid being one of these unfortunate souls:<blockquote><center>tri-vidhaM narakasyedaM

dvAraM nAzanam AtmanaH

kAmaH krodhas tathA lobhas

tasmAd etat trayaM tyajet

</center>

tri-vidham--of three kinds; narakasya--of hell; idam--this; dvAram--gate; nAzanam--destructive; AtmanaH--of the self; kAmaH--lust; krodhaH--anger; tathA--as well as; lobhaH--greed; tasmAt--therefore; etat--these; trayam--three; tyajet--one must give up.

There are three gates leading to this hell--lust, anger and greed. Every sane man should give these up, for they lead to the degradation of the soul.

 

PURPORT

The beginning of demoniac life is described herein. One tries to satisfy his lust, and when he cannot, anger and greed arise. A sane man who does not want to glide down to the species of demoniac life must try to give up these three enemies, which can kill the self to such an extent that there will be no possibility of liberation from this material entanglement.

 

 

<center>etair vimuktaH kaunteya

tamo-dvArais tribhir naraH

Acaraty AtmanaH zreyas

tato yAti parAM gatim

</center>

etaiH--from these; vimuktaH--being liberated; kaunteya--O son of KuntI; tamaH-dvAraiH--from the gates of ignorance; tribhiH--of three kinds; naraH--a person; Acarati--performs; AtmanaH--for the self; zreyaH--benediction; tataH--thereafter; yAti--he goes; parAm--to the supreme; gatim--destination.

The man who has escaped these three gates of hell, O son of KuntI, performs acts conducive to self-realization and thus gradually attains the supreme destination.

 

PURPORT

One should be very careful of these three enemies to human life: lust, anger and greed. The more a person is freed from lust, anger and greed, the more his existence becomes pure. Then he can follow the rules and regulations enjoined in the Vedic literature. By following the regulative principles of human life, one gradually raises himself to the platform of spiritual realization. If one is so fortunate, by such practice, to rise to the platform of KRSNa consciousness, then success is guaranteed for him. In the Vedic literature, the ways of action and reaction are prescribed to enable one to come to the stage of purification. The whole method is based on giving up lust, greed and anger. By cultivating knowledge of this process, one can be elevated to the highest position of self-realization; this self-realization is perfected in devotional service. In that devotional service, the liberation of the conditioned soul is guaranteed. Therefore, according to the Vedic system, there are instituted the four orders of life and the four statuses of life, called the caste system and the spiritual order system. There are different rules and regulations for different castes or divisions of society, and if a person is able to follow them, he will be automatically raised to the highest platform of spiritual realization. Then he can have liberation without a doubt.

 

 

<center>yaH zAstra-vidhim utsRjya

vartate kAma-kArataH

na sa siddhim avApnoti

na sukhaM na parAM gatim

</center>

yaH--anyone who; zAstra-vidhim--the regulations of the scriptures; utsRjya--giving up; vartate--remains; kAma-kArataH--acting whimsically in lust; na--never; saH--he; siddhim--perfection; avApnoti--achieves; na--never; sukham--happiness; na--never; parAm--the supreme; gatim--perfectional stage.

He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination.

 

PURPORT

As described before, the zAstra-vidhi, or the direction of the zAstra, is given to the different castes and orders of human society. Everyone is expected to follow these rules and regulations. If one does not follow them and acts whimsically according to his lust, greed and desire, then he never will be perfect in his life. In other words, a man may theoretically know all these things, but if he does not apply them in his own life, then he is to be known as the lowest of mankind. In the human form of life, a living entity is expected to be sane and to follow the regulations given for elevating his life to the highest platform, but if he does not follow them, then he degrades himself. But even if he follows the rules and regulations and moral principles and ultimately does not come to the stage of understanding the Supreme Lord, then all his knowledge becomes spoiled. And even if he accepts the existence of God, if he does not engage himself in the service of the Lord his attempts are spoiled. Therefore one should gradually raise himself to the platform of KRSNa consciousness and devotional service; it is then and there that he can attain the highest perfectional stage, not otherwise.

 

The word kAma-kArataH is very significant. A person who knowingly violates the rules acts in lust. He knows that this is forbidden, but still he acts. This is called acting whimsically. He knows that this should be done, but still he does not do it; therefore he is called whimsical. Such persons are destined to be condemned by the Supreme Lord. Such persons cannot have the perfection which is meant for the human life. The human life is especially meant for purifying one's existence, and one who does not follow the rules and regulations cannot purify himself, nor can he attain the real stage of happiness.

</blockquote>

[Guruvani]

Should the devotee really be concerned that much about going back to Godhead in this lifetime? It seems that if his goal was to execute the orders of his spiritual master in this lifetime that going back to Godhead would be a given?

If one can please his spiritual master in this lifetime, then going back home should be of no concern.

[Guest guest]

if one can

[gHari]

Sorry, I got logged out twixt posts by the forum gremlin.

 

That brings up an issue: if a disciple falls, but gets up again moments, minutes, days, years later, has the Prabhupada guaranty been rendered null and void?