Why do people keep asking ,"Who is your Spiritual Master ?"

[Guest guest]

They are wanting to know.

 

For what reason ?

 

especially in ISKCON.

 

Is it their business especially at first meeting ?!

[gHari]

In the late sixties at a meeting of the Universal Ontological Institute, a man came up to me and told me that he was my spiritual master. "I am your master." Well, I said nothing, and gently moved off.

 

Perhaps you could respond with "I forget his name just now" or "Mr. Dasa" or "I've been told to hide my guru and realizations from others."

[Guest guest]

because they want to know if you are a

 

enemy n.one: a disciple of another gaudya math guru

enemy n.two : a ritvik

 

if you are in one of these categories they are more at ease if you are a materialist

[Guest guest]

hey it's so funny !

i'm a disciple of Srila BV Narayan Maharaja and in ISKCON they always ask me this question ! some are still into the politics andi don't like that sometimes! but i don't care now, theses little problems dont interest me anymore !! i love everybody, and if some dont like me because of that thats their problem, not mine !!

dont worry about that !!

[PN Prasad]

Beautiful Quote:

 

"A servant is the Master. One who is a servant can only be a Master. And the Master is the servant. There is no difference."

 

How beautiful is the relationship between the Master and the Disciple !

[hare_krishna]

This has to stop now. Devotees who ask this generally know nothing. If they can’t give arguments in a discussion they start asking who your guru is. And when you say that your guru is non-isckon or non gaudiya they tell you that you lost the discussion because you have no right to speak. Pathetic people.

[Guest guest]

but very often educated in this way by their leaders

[Guruvani]

yeah, let's get that straw man!

This discussion here seems to be on about the same level as something YOUR STRAWMAN would be talking about.

[Sudama]

This is also one of my pet peeves. It's almost like they have pre-judged you based upon who your spiritual master is.

 

In ISKCON nowadays having a guru is more of a fashion statement than a serious spiritual relationship. I have seen brand new initiates, in the movement less than a year talk down to sincere 20+ year bhaktas who have been doing service and reading Prabhupada's books since before they were born!

 

It's amazing, especially in some ISKCON communities how much pressure is put on new bhaktas to take initiation from the local guru/GBC. The official party line is that the zonal acharya days are over, but practical experience shows otherwise.

[theist]

I agree its a measuring stick so they can know how to relate to you. It's like a default system for the mind. If you answer so&so is my guru then one program kicks in. If you give a different name another program kicks in.

 

Not having ungone any formal intiation it means I have to deal with the default program for solicitian to become a disciple of their guru. I never argue about any of this. My real position is, which I explain is, I recognize Srila Prabhupada as Krsna's friend and Jagat guru but I don't live up to the life as a diciple. Then the you MUST have a "living guru" program comes up in their mind. To which I give my pat response that I am not looking for a guru and I will just continue to bow to Prabhupada, chant and read books. At the time of death Krsna can do what he likes with me. I am set in this mode for life, the only forseeable change is that I get some realization and truly surrender someday to Prabhuada's instructions and agree to love Krsna.

 

The other automatic question for decades has been "how many rounds do you chant" to which I always respond with "not enough."

 

Then the person will generally walk off or may even ask me my name. That's rare though.

[Guest guest]

Sort of like talking with a born-again Christian, isn't it?

 

"Have you accepted _______ as your personal Lord and Savior?"

 

If you answer yes they will immediately want to be your friend. Any other answer and you are automatically going to hell.

[livingentity]

because that is what I always answer to that same question.

 

The other automatic question for decades has been "how many rounds do you chant" to which I always respond with "not enough."

 

 

I am getting tired of being told that I will not go to Godhead if I do not accept so and so guru and become initiated by him.

[Guest guest]

I had one of my so-called Godsisters screaming at the top of her lungs at me, right in front of my wife:

 

"You're going to drag your wife into hell because you are so offensive to your guru!!!"

 

Needless to say, I got away from this so-called guru and his weird lady cult followers as soon as I could!

[gHari]

I don't know who my guru is, his name that is.

 

Guru Nanak is always talking about meeting the one True Guru in the heart who takes you to God. Maybe I'm a Sikh?

 

But I'm happy with where I am, and I wouldn't trade with anyone.

[livingentity]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[stonehearted]

sudama: It's amazing, especially in some ISKCON communities how much pressure is put on new bhaktas to take initiation from the local guru/GBC. The official party line is that the zonal acharya days are over, but practical experience shows otherwise.

 

I'm sorry to hear that this is still going on. My experience over that last several years was pretty local, and in San Diego there has been no particular guru toward whom devotees have been pointed, and the GBC there isn't accepting disciples (yet). I gather, though, that when Sudama was living in the Honolulu temple, there was a lot of pressure to line up with the man who was the GBC there at the time. The result: disaster, at least from what I've seen.

 

On the other hand, I'm not so sure that asking someone who initiated them isn't often an innocent question. (I've heard that it's sometimes common to ask after someones' gotra, etc.) I know that I'm curious about that once I get to know someone a little because it may be a way of understanding a little more about their mood, experience, etc. And figuring out how to ask is tricky, partly because there's a broad variety of ways devotees relate to their initiators these days. Some have lost faith in the devotee who gave them their name and mantras, but stay with the institution, having taken shelter of Srila Prabhupada in their minds, at least for the time being. Others, who have more faith in their guru (I'm using that word simply for the sake of expedience), may help me understand how things are going as well as they are in particular places, or may give me some insight into that guru's qualities. Often, it gives me a clue about where I need to be careful (sometimes inspiring more caution if that guru's name comes up in convesation). And very often, it serves as an opening for conversation that may broaden or deepen my understanding of and faith in Mahaprabhu's movement, especially that I sometimes meet disciples of B.V. Puri Maharaj, Sridhar Maharaj, Govinda Maharaj, or others not affiliated with ISKCON. I don't use it to judge the person I've met, though. I understand that I'm "senior" to most devotees I meet, whatever that means, and it doesn't mean mcuh to me except that I try to remember to behave in a way that would reflect favorably on my own spiritual master.

 

Because asking about it is rather tricky, though, I often let it go. Sometimes it will come up more natually, sometimes I hear from other devotees about someone's background, and sometimes I never find out. For example, when I met Sudama a couple of years ago, I had already heard his story from old friends, so I accepted him as he presented himself, a nice, sober devotee with a great sense of humor and whose faith was reposed in Srila Prabhupada. I've occasionally asked about gurus here, and usually got smacked upside the head, usually due to the assumption that I asked it as a put-down. But my curiosity about othe people seems to be part of my writer's nature, and I can't--and won't--check it. If folks take things wrong, it usually gives me a chance to humble myself a little and apologize.

 

So while I take seriously your objections to this question, and I know it may be used as a weapon by some (Many? I dunno--I'm not that well traveled.), I suggest that your defensiveness may sometimes be unnecessary.

[stonehearted]

After the tenth guru after Guru Nanak, their book, Guru Granth Sahib, was declared to the the sikhs' guru, as I remember.

[Subala]

>>sudama: It's amazing, especially in some ISKCON communities how much pressure is put on new bhaktas to take initiation from the local guru/GBC. The official party line is that the zonal acharya days are over, but practical experience shows otherwise. >>>

 

I had this experince in Moscow temple - if you really want to be a good book distributor you have to be disciple of XYZ. All upper Temple managment was XYZ disciples and there were subtle push and favoritism for XYZ disciples.

 

Outcome was sad.

 

Taking initiation is like a marriage, you do it once in life.

 

Good thing is - krishna protects this movement - if somebody doing somehting wrong - Krishna won't let it go on long time. He will make some arrangements.

 

reg new bhaktas, it is deeply personal thing disciple guru relationship - there should not be 3rd party really.

[stonehearted]

Subala: I had this experince in Moscow temple - if you really want to be a good book distributor you have to be disciple of XYZ. All upper Temple managment was XYZ disciples and there were subtle push and favoritism for XYZ disciples.

 

I'm bummed to hear that. I'm happy, though, that I live away from anywhere that happens. Actually, I'm not sure that's true, though. When Narayan Maharaj visited Hilo earlier this year, many devotees pressured newcomers (and other devotees not yet initiated, for a variety of reasons) to take initiation from him. They weren't heavyhanded, but persistent, from what I heard.

 

Sigh.

[Sudama]

How are things on the Big Island these days? (Off topic, I know, but just curious).

[stonehearted]

Yer gonna get this thread shut down! /images/graemlins/wink.gif (Moderator: it's a joke!)

 

Things move slowly, as usual. Yesterday we had a festival for the disappearance of Gadadhara Pandita and Bhaktivinoda Thakura. About 45 devotees were there, from different groups--some inclined toward ritvik, some Narayan Maharaj followeres and disciples, some affiliated with other GV gurus, and some old Prabhupada types. We had nice bhajans and kirtans, Gopavrindapal spoke about Gadadhara Pandit, and I spoke about Srila Bhaktivinoda, and we had a really sumptuous feast.

 

Mulaprakriti and Gopavrindapala bought a lot in Hilo with three very run-down old plantation houses, and fixed one up into a very sweet temple. That's where we have a lot of our gatherings now. Many of us also like going to Garuda's in Opihikao (he and his wife are old friends of ours from when we lived on Maui in the mid '70s). There's lots of kirtan and Krishna-katha here.

 

How's life in Texas? BTW, I don't know how long a drive it is to Houston, but I know a devotee who lives there--a godbrother named Mukunda Datta. He's very scholarly and gentle (but you may not want to discuss the ritvik issue with him--he doesn't buy it).

[Sudama]

Looks like private messages are disabled here. Can you send me your email address to sudama@harekrishnatemple.com? I would like to continue to correspond via email.

 

ys

 

SDA

[Guest guest]

If anyone is particularly troubled by the question "WHo is your Guru" and for some reason you don't want to answer (one time it was 11 o'clock at night in Bombay, and the taxi driver took me to Juhu Beach ISKCON instead of Chowpatty ISKCON which had a cheap, fairly clean hotel, and I was forced to stay at the ISKCON "hotel" for one night, and I had to avoid the "who is your guru" question a few times) ... you can answer the question with the following shloka:

 

In Hari-bhakti-vilasa, verse 2.147, Srila Sanatan Goswami quotes Sammohana-tantra:

 

gopayed devatam istam gopayed gurum atmanah

gopayec ca nijam mantram gopayen nija-malikam

 

One should hide one's ista-deva, one should hide one's guru, one should hide one's mantra, and one should hide one's japa-mala.

 

--

 

Of course if you're going to answer like this, make sure your japa mala isn't in plain sight. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Guest guest]

HBV> Goswami Grantha: Yes ,hide that which is most prescious (sp)from strangers or they may cause offense to your most beloved Gurudeva.They do not require to know the name of your istha-deva as a matter of curiosity or mind control police survelliance(sp).

[stonehearted]

I'm also aware of this injunction. I think those in such a situation need to try to read the situation. If there's a friendly relationship blooming and the other person seems worthy of some confidence, why not share this information. At the same time, most reasonable devotees will likely respect your privacy, and I think relying on this injuction would be a good way to avoid an intrusion.