Guest guest Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Vedyam vastava (m) atra vastu shivadam Srimad Bhagavatam (1.1.2) Only a truly existing (vastavam) object (vastu) Which is related to the Supreme Absolute Truth (atra shivadam) Is worth of being known (vedyam) Sadhu means the one that has relation with sad vastu , with the eternal truth. A gaudya vaisnava sadhu means sadnoti sadayati ca krsna prema iti sadhu, who themself is doing sadhana and by his association, he can cause you to come into the line of Suddha sadhana bhakti, and he teaches you what is your sadhya , the goal of your sadhana. Sadhu is a pure devotee, by whose mercy bhakti manifest itself upon the seses of the sadhaka, spiritualises them and causes them to attain tadAtma , oneness with its nature KRti sadhya bhavet sadhya Bhava sa sadhanAbhidha Nitya siddhasya bhavasya Prakatyam hRdi sAdhyata That bhakti which is accomplished Through the function of the senses And by which bhava bhakti is obtained Is called saddhana bhakti The manifesting of the nitya siddha bhava Within the heart of the purified jiva Is called sadhyata When the faithful jiva, through his own effort performs bhagavan nama kirtana, with his material tongue, or hears bhgavat katha with his material ears, such an endeavor is called indrya vyapara , engagement of the senses. These are preliminary activities to bhakti, they prepare someone for bhakti just as for yajNa we have to collect some paraphernalia. Because these activities prepare one for bhakti, they are accepted as bhakti, but truly they are not bhakti. Bhakti is a function of the svarupa Sakti, not of the material senses. As long as the iron is not in connection with the fire, it will remain iron. Only one vastu that has fire in itself (the soul), after ignition (manifestation of bhava) can remain in this condition, and be the giver of fire for others , and the way of ignition is the transcendental sound . your servant the copy man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 ***The transcendental sound can be uttered by the realized soul Replay Yes, first one neeed to find him. But some other person may help someone in spiritual science. Replay Good samskaras and preaching to the mind Srila B Vedanta Aranaya Maharaja said Only the sad guru preaches. All the others are just assisting his preaching, they should not think, they are preachers. And how should they assist preaching? Like this: Go to sadhu and take diksha (get the transcendental sound of initiation and further bhajan shiksa ). They should preach the glories of their sad guru, of their param guru, param param guru and the whole sadhus in the parampara. If they don t make the person they are preaching to, to go and take diksa from the sat guru, they don t really help that person, and they don t really serve guru and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. But some service is there, some good samskaras (impresions in the heart) will come for that person and at least one preaches to one s mind, something, according one,s conditioned understanding. the copy man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Guruvani, the feeding frenzy comment was just an observation on people trying to enjoy Prabhupada's energy. I can't see how it would have a meaning on people following Prabhupada's instructions or not. I agree with your other points basically. But there is a magic bullet aspect. It is not the last word, but it is a legitamate perspective. To me it means Prabhupada did something wonderfully unique. That he manifest the magic. Not that he just passed it on like a handshake. No, of course I don't think spiritual life so cheap. I'm not talking about resolving a persons conflicts or making 'em pure just because Prabhupada bestows contact or a munificent smile. But that is there in Vedic literature. I'm simply saying Prabhupada worked magic like no one else we know of. And because he was spiritual, his sounds and movements were worthy of meditation. And he, being a transparent medium, could manifest spiritual energy to pierce the coverings of these material bodies. That energy may be Krsna's or whatever, but still, you can't deny Prabhupada's ability to manifest it. But that issue is separate from the issue of how people react to their perceptions. I agree there is no Magic Bullet to save us. It is dependent on our understanding and surrender. Still, there is precedent in scripture. But I don't see it manifest for any individual, much less a whole society, in these times. Yeah, as you are describing it, the magic bullet was so rare in the past there is hardly need to even talk of it. Guess Guest People are getting banned for no good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 ***Only a sat guru (the one that have seen Krsna face to face) Only crazy thinks - "I am alone see Lord, nobody else". It is maya speak - "You big devotee, another in maya." kanistha adhikari - "I am alone see Lord, nobody else". Uttama-madhyama see - "so mutch people in KC." Uttama - "All world in KC, only I am not." kanistha - "I am in KC, go, surrender me." /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Only crazy thinks - "I am alone see Lord, nobody else". It is maya speak - "You big devotee, another in maya." Srila Jiva Gosvami says in Bhakti sandarbha (anuccheda 237) Yo mantra sa guruh sakshat Yo guru sa harih svayam Gurur yasya bhavet tushtas Tasya tushto harir svayam The guru’s internal, spiritual mood of service to Sri RadhikA and KRSNa is conveyed to the disciple through the medium of a mantra. Everything is given in seed form within the mantra. The paramapara is the disciplic succession of Sabdha brahma Madya lila 17.48-49 keha yadi tanra mukhe sune krsna-nama tanra mukhe ana sune tanra mukhe ana sabe 'krsna' 'hari' bali' nace, kande, hase paramparaya 'vaisnava' ha-ila sarva dese When someone heard the chanting of the holy name from the mouth of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and someone else heard this chanting from that second person, and someone again heard this chanting from the third person, everyone in all countries became a Vaisnava through such disciplic succession. Thus everyone chanted the holy name of Krsna and Hari, and they danced, cried and smiled . Purport (by S AC B Svami Prabhupada) The transcendental power or potency of the Hare Krsna maha-mantra is herein explained. First, the holy name is vibrated by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. When someone hears from Him directly, he is purified. When another person hears from that person, he also is purified. In this way the purification process is advanced among pure devotees. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and no one can claim His potency. Nonetheless, if one is a pure devotee , hundreds and thousands of men can be purified by his vibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 In reply to: -- Only crazy thinks - "I am alone see Lord, nobody else". It is maya speak - "You big devotee, another in maya." -- sA bhaktiH sAdhana bhaktir bhAva bhaktiH premA bhaktir iti drividhA sAdhana bhaktiH punar vaidhi raganuga bhedena dvividhA From the definition of the types of uttama bhakti we can understand that bhava bhakti is also different from prema bhakti. That means that someone who attained bhava is still not a pure devotee, as the one that attained prema. Someone that attained bhava is called a sadhaka bhakta, and his qualifications are explained in Bhakti RasAmRta Sindhu 2.1.276 by Srila Rupa Gosvami Utpanna ratayaH samyaN nairvighnyam anupagataH kRSNa sakSat kRtau yogyah sadhakah parikirttitah One in whose heart rati (bhava) toward sri krsna manifested Who has become qualified to perceive the direct manifestation of the Lord But who has not yet obtained complete freedom from all obstacles Is called a sadhaka bhakta the neophyte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 The paramapara is the disciplic succession of Sabdha brahma Madya lila 17.48-49<< Is Sabdha Brahman limited to certain mantras or is a purified devotees Krsna-katha also Sabdha Brahman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 In Bhakti RasAmRta Sindhu 2.1.280 the characteristics of a pure devotee, a siddha bhakta, one who has attained the stage of sadhya bhakti is described: avijntakhila kleSa sadA krsnaSrita kriyaH siddhah syuh santala prema sankhyAsvAda parayanaH One who is fully immersed in activities related to Sri KRSNa, who is completely unacquainted with material impediments (vighna) or material distress (kleSa) and who incessantly tastes the bliss of prema is called a siddha bhakta. So whatever a pure devotee speaks is related with Sri Krsna and the loving service to Sri Sri Radha Krsna and their different aspects. A pure devotee speaks at no time prajalpa, the hari katha that he speaks, even if not understood by the mind, has a big impact on the true self, the soul, watering the devotional creeper in the heart. Question: If the path is transcendental why do you limit it by physical association? Answer: any transcendetal thing oh, comes from transcendental source; like harinama, diksa mantras are transcendental hari katha is transcendental the sound of srimad bhagavatam is transcendental, so transcendental things come from transcendental source. But, everything in THIS world is material! So, where it will come from? Only when any realized person descended in this world and is carrying bhakti-shakti with them, than you can receive what is transcendental. When a pure devotee speaks, mixed within his voice are the saffron particle of the lotus feet of Krsna, says Srimad Bhagavatam; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 Question: If the path is transcendental why do you limit it by physical association? Answer: any transcendetal thing oh, comes from transcendental source; like harinama, diksa mantras are transcendental hari katha is transcendental the sound of srimad bhagavatam is transcendental, so transcendental things come from transcendental source.<< But, everything in THIS world is material! So, where it will come from? << Well, our vision is certainly material.But everything we see touch smell taste and hear come from a transcendenatl source. >>Only when any realized person descended in this world and is carrying bhakti-shakti with them, than you can receive what is transcendental. << The SB is spiritual and remains such unless we hear from speculators or professional reciters in which case some poison will enter with the milk. Is this what you are saying? Or are you saying the SB is material as it is until you hear it again from a realized soul. i see a subtle difference in conception there. >>When a pure devotee speaks, mixed within his voice are the saffron particle of the lotus feet of Krsna, says Srimad Bhagavatam; << Yes, and Sukadeva spoke it. And Prabhupada wrote it. I see no difference between writing the Bhagavatam and speaking the Bhagavatam. Do you? And like Sukadeva speaking it I see the nectar increasing and expanding with the Acaryas commentaries. So I take it when I read Prabhupada's SB and puports I am being touched by Sabdha Brahman which will eventually wash away my mundane conceptions and establish me at Krsna's feet. I view the contents of the SB as Living Word not dead letter. Are we on the same page here or do differences remain that I can't quite see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Well, our vision is certainly material.But everything we see touch smell taste and hear come from a transcendenatl source. For more details please see Jaiva Dharma by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura Vastu, dharma According vedic knowledge a vastu is a truly abiding object. When an object is formed by the desire of the Supreme All Attractive a PARTICULAR NATURE is built in that structure. That PARTICULAR NATURE is called the sva-bhava of that vastu. That PARTICULAR NATURE is the eternal (nitya) nature (dharma) of that vastu. Besides the nitya dharma (eternal nature) there is also a naimitik dharma (acquired nature) of an object. The naimitik dharma is not the real nature of the object (vastu), but is acquired by long term association by force of circumstances contact with other objects and takes the appearance of permanence The object (vastu), which has existence by itself can be - vastav - eternally existing; spiritual - avastav - temporary existing, material (which has a semblance of existence- sometimes true, sometimes false. A car, a typewriter, or whatever might be used in one;s sadhana, are avastava vastu, a temporary material object, whose sva bhava (particular nature) is of the nature of acit jagat not because we see it like this, but because its nature is like this. Maya Sakti is one but Her action is different appearing as cit jagat and acit jagat. The example here is the electrical energy which by different transformation can give heat or cold. Acit jagat is a transformation (parinama) of maya Sakti. A book might disappear in the course of time but the transcendental message of Srimad Bhagavatam is spiritual, it means eternal, and only the qualified person, which has the nature of the svarupa Sakti, internal energy of Krsna, as the soul, may convey the transcendental message. The example here are the sacrificial mantras, which have no power as long as no qualified brahmana utters them. The copy man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 >>When a pure devotee speaks, mixed within his voice are the saffron particle of the lotus feet of Krsna, says Srimad Bhagavatam; << Yes, and Sukadeva spoke it. Yes of course Suka spoke it, but you didn’t here Him. If you do not take his sanga you are not aware of it. Every anga of bhakti takes its power from sadhu sanga. What do you think we need sadhu sanga?Krsna bhakti janma mula haya sadhu sanga Krsna prema janme tenho punah mukhya anga CC Madhya 22.83 Sadhu sanga is the root cause of krsna-bhakti (waters the creeper of bhakti through the transcendental sound of hari katha), brings the fruit of krsna-prema and remains the most essential anga of bhakti when krsna-prema was awakened. nitya siddha krsna prema sadhya kabu naya sravanadi shuddha citte karaye udaya Eternaly perfected krsna prema, nitya siddha krsna prema, it is not that has to be attained, sadhya kabu naya, but when one begings (adi) to hear the pure transcendental sound (sravana) (describing the glories of the Lord), sravanAdi, one's heart is purified, shuddha citte, and the true nature of bhava awakens, karaye udaya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 >>When a pure devotee speaks, mixed within his voice are the saffron particle of the lotus feet of Krsna, says Srimad Bhagavatam; << Yes, and Sukadeva spoke it. And Prabhupada wrote it. Prabhupada didn’t wrote it, He translated it into English up to the tenth Canto (and a part of it), and used commentaries of previous acaryas in his explanantions.The compiler of Srimad Bhagavatam is Srila Vyasadeva and the Its writer is GaneSa. Your servant The copy man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 So I take it when I read Prabhupada's SB and puports I am being touched by Sabdha Brahman which will eventually wash away my mundane conceptions and establish me at Krsna's feet. So, what you take is good samskars, but no Sabdha Brahma. Because the sound has four portions, and the portion you hear by reading, is that on the level of the mind, not the pure transcendental sound. When the faithful jiva, through his own effort performs bhagavan nama kirtana, with his material tongue, or read vaisnava sastra loud or in the mind, such an endeavor is called indrya vyapara , engagement of the senses. These are preliminary activities to bhakti, they prepare someone for bhakti just as for yajNa we have to collect some paraphernalia. Because these activities prepare one for bhakti, they are accepted as bhakti, but truly they are not bhakti. Bhakti is a function of the svarupa Sakti, not of the material senses. the copy man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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