yasodanandana Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 4th principle broken /images/graemlins/smile.gif do not speculate on my intentions, better to answer what i have said... (thing that you have not done) said this (that i am not making propaganda): you have a very strange idea of gaudya math and you do not respect what srila prabhupad have said at the moment of his disappearance but this offensive mood is necessary to mantain the post samadhi theory: -prabhupada is jagat guru (guru of the world) -he continues to give sisksa and diksa -who take shelter to another guru has to be mad (because he miss the jagad guru) -who act as a guru has to be an offender(because he steals the throne of the jagad guru) if you fail to think and preach like that all your castle falls down it is like a button ....... one push it and you came with this "hands off from prabhupad's iskcon" very unfortunate and not so creative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 ritvik is really a poison.... but devotees like prasadam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 <<Give me a break! Somepone who is actually inspiring people all over the owrl dto take to Krsna consciousness suggests that in consideration of time, place, and cisrcumstances it might be acceptable to encourage homosexuals who are devotees to regulate their sexuality by living in a relationship with another homosexual devotee rather than insisting that they remian celibate or enter a hetrosexual relationship in order to progress spiritually.>> Well that's fine. But that doesn't, nor should it, involve the temple in anyway. All that entails is telling the person to regulate their lives and keep chanting, if they approach you for advice. As it is you want to disturb the already much disturb minds of Prabhupada's disciples and their students and disciples. Ever here the phrase the US army uses "Don't ask don't tell"? That is how this is best handled. The confusion and contention that this little "project" is causing now is nothing as to what it will cause in the future. Oh and it will continue on. Think about this scenario. Two homo men get "married" at Iskcon LA before guru God and sacred fire. (sorry LA its just fiction now, time remains to stop it). As more devotees opposed to the idea move away more apts. open up. More Gays move into them after their "sanctified marriages" of course. Repeat scenario over and over until New Dvarkadish comes to be known as little Castro. >>You need a guru.<< Thank you for your blessings. By some good fortune I accept Lord Caitanya as the universal guru and Lord Jagannatha as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I hope at least that meets with your approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 tad viddhi pranipatena.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 >>"Oh and Theist, take the essence." << Yes, thank you for the always pertinent advice. I will try to do just that. I noticed you haven't registered yet. Or have but choose not to sign a name to your posts. I'll guess though. Rama Keshava? Either way please sing in as guestx or something if you plan on continual discourse. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 >>"tad viddhi pranipatena.. "<< Wow in sanskrit even. Must be an empowered preacher. LOL.It's good advice though. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Let's see - Guruvani started this topic with the title ritvik is poison - something I agree with in the case of the post-samadhi brand - and now we have so many different threads. Everyone needs a guide - I see no reason to single out any individual in that regard. Regarding the homosex issue - too much reactionary/homophobia in my own opinion. Twisting what has been said into something which wasn't and suggesting that it is therefore heresy. This is dishonest at the very least. What has been said? What are the implications? Tripurari Swami has commented that those homosexuals who cannot lead a celibate life style should live in a committed relationship analagous to marriage. As I see it - this is practical advice that takes into consideration a persons psychology and level of renunciation. Nothing artificial here. What is needed is honesty - not preaching adherence to standards that many cannot follow. Those who can should by all means. Those who can't should follow as best they can and chant. They need to progress from where they are. No need to hide in a closet and talk about don't ask/ don't tell. We need openness and honesty. How will anyone progress if they hide who they are and what they are about? I don't think this is a good policy. So many devotees had trouble following the 4 principles but they were unable to deal practically with their short comings for fear of being labelled a deviant or fallen devotee. Intimidation doesn't work and asking people to project a face that isn't real and hide who they are will not lead to progress. I have not seen my Guru Maharaja suggest in writing nor have I heard him say that there should be homosexual unions performed in temples and sanctified as holy. This is a total misrepresentation of what he has said. His advice is really much more honest and practical. Be honest about who you are and what you are capable of and try to progress from there. Leading a promiscuous lifestyle whether one is a heterosexual or homosexual is not going to help one progress spiritually. Advancing to a stage of a committed relationship and all that comes with such committment will actually lead to progress. Understand? Pretty simple really - nothing to get all upset about and certainly not some heresy or deviant instruction. My own experience in terms of a committed relationship is that it is not easy and requires a great deal of self sacrifice to make it work. What may start out as very wonderful and accomodating and is overall quite pleasurable will have many twists and turns and require a great deal of personal growth and sacrifice to make it work in the long run. Additionally - what ever brought two people together in terms of their initial impulse gets stretched and redefined over time. Why is there so much divorce in this country? For the most part it is because of a lack of committment and willingness to go through hard times - expectations are rarely met which leads to frustration and in a disposable society where people are taught to do it if it feels good and if not - move on - committment is a big thing. People want to say that Prabhupada was this or that - but really Srila Prabhupada was practical and didn't deal with issues in such a black and white way. He perfectly engaged all those who came to him. Did he do this the same way each and every time - absolutely not. Were his instructions to one person different than they were to another - of course they were. This is common sense, which unfortunately is not at all common. When something didn't work or some new data was available on an issue Srila Prabhupada was more than willing to adjust accordingly - very practical. Gay individuals will continue to exist in society and the reasons why a person is gay will continue to be complex. What is certain as more is learned about human behavior is that being gay is not a choice in the general sense of the idea and simply calling someone who is gay a pervert shows a lack of understanding and is indicative of a homophobic mentality more than it is of anything else. There are many factors involved in determining the sexual orientation of an individual. Genetics certainly comes into play but so does environment. The prenatal environment of the developing fetus has been shown to have dramatic effects on human behavior and sexual orientation. Of course the environment in general and all the life experiences that a person has also affects behavior. It is not a simple equation like - those who are homosexuals are perverts - period. This is a very myopic idea and doesn't take any of the empirical evidence into account. At any rate the very jist of my Guru Maharaja's instructions with regard to this is to progress from wherever you are and to do so honestly and with integrity. Don't be a hypocrite is sound advice for all of us. He advices who ever approaches him to take up chanting sincerely and to lead a progressive life of service and surrender, not in an artificial way - but honestly and openly. For those of you who have a problem with that you may want to look more carefully at your own committment and level of involvement before you cast your verbal stones his way. He encourages all devotees to take their practice seriously and move from a surface and superficial understanding to a deeper understanding. He wants all Gaudiya Vaishnava's to get involved in the essence of Lord Chaitanya's teaching - we are meant to have a life - a spiritual life and that requires a great deal of commitment and introspection. Your servant, Audarya-lila dasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 for those who keep barking as the caravan passes ! One man's food is another man's poison. Yes ,devotees like prasadam but there are these yapping critters who insist on regularly injecting their rtvik poison into our minds and hearts. Are we going to allow this venom to kill our urge for hearing and chanting the glories of Krishna and His pure devotees ? True devotees Arise please preach against this most virulent stain of rtvik aids attacking the simple devotees of the Lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 "I can see now that the slander of Prabhupada in the form of accusing him of supporting slavery and rape is not being censored in this forum and that is very unfortunate." ................ Wooohoo! Just question if Prabhupda's statements might be incorrect and you call for the referee. Yet you never hesitate to vilify anyone else's guru. Thisis porbably becasue you don't think they are bonafide. However, Prabhupda taught that we should consider the opinion of more advanced devotees. I believe that Narayana Maharaja, Tirtha Maharaja, Puri Maharaja, Tripurari Maharaja, Govinda Maharaja, Narasingha Maharaja and a host of others are all more advanced than you or anyone in your ritvik group and they all say ritvik is appasiddhanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 <<Prabhupda taught that we should consider the opinion of more advanced devotees.>> Are they more advanced than Srila Prabhupada, all the respected Vaishnavas you mentioned? Phalena prayate. Judge by the results. What have they achieved that can even be compared to what Srila Prabhupada has achieved in 12 years. Well they have had more than 25 years since Srila Prabhupada's departure to achive something tangible! Guravani is presnting not his opinions but repeating the instructions of his guru maharaj. They are definatly more advanced in denouncing Srila Prabhupada July 9th directive and that is a fact prabhujis. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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