bush - fool number one

[stonehearted]

Thanks, theist. I think you may have mentioned this before. It's all so discouraging, if you have any inclination to politics. And that's especially the case since so many folks focus on one issue or another. Folks like thiest who respond to the Republican's pro-life rhetoric would put us in a position where we have to put up with so much of their other nonsense (same with the Democrats). It's almost enough to make me want to dedicate my life to spreading Krishna consciousness.

 

Yes, abortion is Hell fire (and a cause of more to come). Animal slaughter is, I believe, an issue to go after that would yield practical improvements in life on earth. I heard recently that 9,000,000,000 (nine billion) animals are slaughtered annually in the US. The only way we'll change the culture is rhino hunts.

[theist]

 

Folks like thiest who respond to the Republican's pro-life rhetoric ...

 

 

Actually I'm responding to Srila Prabhupada's pro-life rhetoric.

[stonehearted]

theist: Actually I'm responding to Srila Prabhupada's pro-life rhetoric.

 

Actually, we all are. My remark was not intended as pejorative, at least with regard to you. I was referring to your expressions of support for Republicans who talk about stopping abortion but have shown themselves unable to go further. And who often show big holes in their "commitment" to human life. Only one case was Quayle, who, when asked what he'd do if his 13-year-old daughter chose abortion, replied that he would talk to her, but would support her regardless of what her decision may be. He also famously criticized fictional TV anchor Murphy Brown's becoming a single mom (what--rather than have an abortion?).

 

I also have a hard time taking "pro-life" rhetoric seriously from meat-eaters because the disregard of innocent human life is simply an extension of disregard for other life. The only life they even express any regard for is folks who might look like them. If someone looks like a cow, a pig, or a chicken, or any other nonhuman life form, they deserve no more repect, in the eyes of these lower-than-sixth-class creeps, than a stone. Although they may accidentally agree with us to some extent on one issue, they're no less blind than anyone else; worse, they actively solicit tax money for supporting the slaughterhouse industry. I fear that giving them our imprimatur may implicate us in the parade into the ditch.

[theist]

Try to see it in the simplest possible way. Abortion rights will only be outlawed in this country through the over turning of Roe v. Wade by the Supreme Court.

 

Yes some will still do it in their own bathrooms and at their own risk. Just like other murders are against the law but some people do it anyway.

 

The only party that has an interest in seeing the Supreme Court reverse that decision is the Republican Party. That can't happen until they a sufficent majority in the Senate to get some pro-life judges on the Supreme Court.

 

Presently we just need to change 1 abortion rights judge in for 1 pro-life judge.

 

The Demoncrats are presently blocking that effort at every chance they get and they have the numbers in Senate to continue blocking.

 

I don't care what anyone's motive is in opposing abortion as long as they do we are on the same side in this issue.

 

For me it really is that simple.

[stonehearted]

Sorry, theist, but the simplest perspective is that abortion rights are only a symptom. That was the main thrust of our Independents for Godly Government here in 1976: regard for life--all life--freedom from intoxication, from sexual license, and from gambling are symptoms of those fit to lead society. Dedication to animal slaughter, sexual license, intoxication, and all sorts of gambling are symptoms of an exploitative mentality that disqualifies so-called leaders. Going through all sorts of gyrations to declare support for Repubicans because they accidentally agree with us on one issue is fine if you're honest about it (and you have been) and clear about the consequences. For all their talk about freedom, they're every bit as much about controlling regular folks as the Demoncrats. Following your line, I could just as easily tout the principles I like about the Greens and ignore their official stand on abortion rights. But, as I've acknowledged here, I can't.

 

Changing one justice on the basis of a single issue is merely superficial change. Only radical (look it up) change will effect the cultural shifts the vaishnavas really want. Put your BB guns away, leave the little birdies alone. Load for rhino, dude; we're in the jungle.

[Kulapavana]

We are naturally marginalized by the politicians in US and other western countries (even on a very local level) because we are a very small and disunited voter group. Any "radical change" in the desired direction would have to involve building a massive popular movement, engaged as much in spirituality as in politics.

[theist]

Aren't you the same person who claims to have actively campaigned for Gray Davis for Govenor of California?

[stonehearted]

theist: Aren't you the same person who claims to have actively campaigned for Gray Davis for Govenor of California?

 

If you mean me--Babhru--the answer is categorically no! I have never actively campaigned for anyone except IGG candidates. You'd better either find proof for your allegation or retract your slander. And by retract, I mean erase it while you have time. I never campaigned for Davis, and I never voted for Davis.

[stonehearted]

Kulapavana: Any "radical change" in the desired direction would have to involve building a massive popular movement, engaged as much in spirituality as in politics.

 

Babhru: Almost correct, but I'll give you full credit anyway. I'd say "more in spirituality than politics." It's called sankritan, nama-prachar. Anything else is noise. Only constant chanting of the holy names of Krishna has the power to overcome Kali's influence--nothing else (nothing else, nothing else!).

[theist]

 

I don't know that I'd say he would be better than any of the Democrats. Bustamante could be effective, having come from leadership in the legislature and being chastened by seeing what's happened with Davis (truth is, when we[/we] elected Davis there were no good choices).

 

 

Slander? I just asked a question. The above quote was the one I was trying to remember. Since I couldn't remember if you said you worked or just voted for him I thought I would ask. Sorry.

 

Bye

[stonehearted]

By "we" I meant Californians, as a group, just as we say "we" elected George Bush (let's not start, okay, folks?). I lived in California the first time Davis was elected governor, but I never personally voted for Davis. I voted for the Green candidate. And I was a Hawaii resident during the 2002 election.

 

To make it perfectly clear: I never claimed to have actively campaigned for Davis, nor did I. The only candidates I have ever actively campaigned for were Independents For Godly Government candidates in Hawaii in 1976. And I never said or even implied that I voted for him. I have never voted for Gray Davis for any office. I voted for the Green candidate when Davis was first elected governor and was not a California resident when he was reelected in 2002 and was therefore precluded from voting for anyone there.

 

Any questions?

 

Your "innocent" question reads as an accusation. I await the retraction.

 

Aloha

[mahak]

Haribol. Babhru prabhu hits the nail on the head here. Symptoms, not the problems. Republicans cannot argue for LIFE because they have no idea either. This is why their rhetoric is shallow.

 

And, in politics, pragmatism is essential. Republicans who really want to win will go with the flow as well. Patty Murray cannot be beaten, but Nethercutt (who reneged on his term limit promise BTW), has also flip-flopped on the abortion issue.

 

Abortion is not even the issue, because when folks think about abortion, they think of a fourteen year old girl who has flat run out of fortune. When quayle aND REPUBLICANS ARE GIVEN THIS IDEA, THEY WILL THINK HARD OUTSIDE THE PULPIT OF THEIR OWN CHURCHES, WHICH IS REAL. (Sorry for the caps, nervous fingers, not yellin). Abortion industry is the entire issue here, and Ill never vote for most liberals because of their blatant protection of this soilant green industry. The industry is witchcraft, killing babies for their blood to be used for their fear ofd their own deaths. Just as a pure vegan must give up milk, and even breathing, an anti-abortionist must not support the industry. This means to not go to doctors or take medicine or vitamins or even use cosmetis or soap products, because human tissue is used in all of em. In fact, a pure anti-abortionist must also refuse to touch world currency because the world bank has abortion as a major condition in upholding the world economy.

 

I used to be disturbed by folks like kicinich, strong pro-life folks who also realize that choice is also a valid concern. But I think that a person to be singled out for a particular issue is not fair in light of the real message he tries to deliver.

 

Republicans are not fair, though, because they make hay out of clintons few pot trips, yet cry foul when dems criticize the alcoholism or cocaine use of bush. They cry foul about Clintons draft dodge, but the entire present admin is filled with draft dodgers, and even has a deserter as commander in chief. There is no fairness in republicans, this is why they dont get my vote.

 

When the rabid right anti choice (I wont call them pro-life because all they do is kill people) shows concern for unwed mothers, teenagers who do have babies, struggling families, etc, I amy listen. But I hate something much greater than baby-killing and animal slaughter, that is hypocracy.

 

If Kicinich says that he abhors abortion yet favors choice, this is not hypocracy at all. He will dedicate his office for improving social conditions that will make it a little easier to bring children into this world. An unwanted pregnancy is a little easier to deal with if the government supports the (god forbid) PEOPLE. A pregnant fourteen year old has NEVER been the issue here, but human growth hormones and increased desire for hedonistic longevity is a serious issue. It is a Hiyanyakasipu issue.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa