Drink Western milk?

[theist]

At least face the results of your milk purchases before lecturing others on cow protection.

 

http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery/photos_dairy.htm

 

I was listening to a lecture by one western iskcon guru at a festival some years back when a yound vegan girl asked him about dairy use. She won the debate hands down. I think our position on this issue is weak.

 

Can we really please Gopala by supporting this industry? I mean we worship God as a cowherd boy yet continue to slaughter the calves.

 

Do we suffer a certain disconnect there?

 

Please visit the above site and others before making up your own mind.

[Guruvani]

Does killing the cow make milk as no longer "liquid religion"? Should the milk of these poor cows then be rejected and their contribution to human society then rejected? Is the cow still not a sacred animal even though it is slaughterd? How does killing the cow make the milk that it produces when it is alive as unnacceptable?

 

Prabhupada was told that the American milk industry puts fish oil in the milk to add vitamin D. He knew that the cows in the milk industry were slaughtered. Despite knowing this he still allowed commercial milk to be used in temples.

 

When devotees wanted to know if we should not offer that kind of milk to the deities Prabhuapda said "we can't be fanatics".

 

There is no need to manufacture our own religion of rejecting commercial milk. It is unfair to the cows to not let their milk be used for offerings and to benefit human society. Have mercy on the poor cows. Let them make their offerings to human society. Don't let the killers of the cows discredit the goodness of the cows and their milk.

[theist]

If you can offer it with a clear conscience what can I say. It's your choice. Just don't expect me to listen to you talk about cow protection.

[theist]

 

http://www.milksucks.com/pus.html

Go to the article to see the pictures. This ain't Gopala leading the calves off to pasteur in the morning with the happy cowherd boys dancing along behind.

 

_____________________________

 

This cow’s udder is swollen and distended—a symptom of mastitis.

Have some … pus with your cookies? If you down a glass of cow’s milk, you will. It may be white, but researchers say that every cupful contains somatic cells, i.e., pus.

 

The dairy industry knows that there is a problem with pus in milk. Accordingly, it has developed a system known as the “somatic cell count” to measure the amount of pus in milk. The somatic cell count is the standard used to gauge milk quality. The higher the somatic cell count, the more pus in the milk.

 

Any milk with a somatic cell count of higher than 200 million per liter should not enter the human food supply, according to the dairy industry. Therefore, anyone living in a state where the somatic cell count is higher than 200 million shouldn’t be drinking milk. There’s only one problem—every state but Hawaii is producing milk with pus levels so high that it shouldn’t enter the human food supply! At the bottom of this page, you can see how high the pus levels in your state’s milk are. Even the national average, at 322 million, is well above the industry’s limit.

 

One culprit causing the hundreds of millions of pus cells in every liter of milk may be “bovine growth hormone,” the Monsanto chemical company’s growth hormone marketed as Posilac. Posilac is now widely used by dairy farmers to increase the amount of milk that their already overburdened cows produce. Because cows are not built to produce this much milk, they are prone to a painful udder infection called mastitis. When they are milked, pus and bacteria from the infection flow right along with the milk. The journal Nature reported that Posilac increases somatic cells—pus—in the milk by a whopping 19 percent! Researchers estimate that an ordinary glass of milk contains between one and seven drops of pus. This isn’t just disgusting—it can also be dangerous. Pus can contain paratuberculosis bacteria, which are believed to cause Crohn’s disease in human beings.

 

Dairy farmers try to control the rampant mastitis with large doses of antibiotics—but these antibiotics also wind up in the milk. Children are particularly vulnerable to the effects of too many antibiotics, which researchers believe can inhibit the development of the immune system.

 

Dairy farmers don’t tell consumers that every glass of milk is contaminated with pus, bacteria, and perhaps with paratuberculosis. The only way to avoid drinking pus is to avoid cow’s milk.

 

PETA is calling on the USDA to lower the legal limit of allowable pus cells in milk to the limit used by the rest of the industrialized world. Presently, our limit is nearly twice that. Seventeen states are producing milk that would be illegal to sell in Europe!

[I_love_krishna_]

Why horribly kill cows so badly?

 

Why do you post such things here ?

 

You brought me great grief with this and I would like to thank you for it .

 

I think ignorance is bliss, but now with the knowledge of such horrible things, I will never drink milk again.

 

 

[theist]

I am gladden by your decision i_l_k. People will make up their own minds but that should be done after a full consideration of the facts.

 

Perhaps one day Prabhupada's vision of self-sufficent farming communities where real cow protection is practiced will be realized. Those even now trying need to be supported.

 

There are some successes that I have read about, Babhru knows some.

[Guruvani]

this anti-milk campaign is what you learned by associating with non-devotees. just see how harmful it is. look at how sinful and offensive you have made out Srila Prabhupada and all of ISKCON as well as all other devotees around the world who use milk products.

 

now you have twisted this young girls mind and turned her against milk.

 

do you think that India has more sanitary standards than the U.S.? Why then does India have more deadly diseases and sickness rampant all over the country.

 

milk is no more than processed blood of the cow. all milk contains some dead blood cells and the milk in India is no different.

 

this puss fetish you have learned from the anti-milk people is something you should keep to yourself instead of infecting around to innocent and naive young devotees.

 

these people who are against milk drinking because of the so-called puss you claim is in the milk are against all milk drinking totally and claim that milk is not meant to be a food for humans and is ripping off the cow.

 

these fanatics are not too be listened too.

 

a few dead blood cells in the milk is not going to make milk undrinkable. that is just propaganda meant to make all non-vegans out to be inferior to the vegan fanatics who live on soybeans and other animals feeds.

 

[Guruvani]

 

Pus can contain paratuberculosis bacteria, which are believed to cause Crohn’s disease in human beings.

 

 

 

 

Wrong. This is false propaganda and is not supported by medical research. It is believed that milk along with other food might complicate Crohn's disease but it has not been established that milk puss is the cause.

 

Here is the statment by the:

 

 

What causes Crohn's disease?

Theories about what causes Crohn's disease abound, but none has been proven. The most popular theory is that the body's immune system reacts to a virus or a bacterium by causing ongoing inflammation in the intestine.

 

People with Crohn's disease tend to have abnormalities of the immune system, but doctors do not know whether these abnormalities are a cause or result of the disease. Crohn's disease is not caused by emotional distress.

 

 

........................................

Is Milk the problem?

Can diet control Crohn's disease?

No special diet has been proven effective for preventing or treating this disease. Some people find their symptoms are made worse by milk, alcohol, hot spices, or fiber. People are encouraged to follow a nutritious diet and avoid any foods that seem to worsen symptoms. But there are no consistent rules.

..................................

 

This kind of false propaganda by PETA is going to get them sued by the American Dairy Industry when they find out that this kind of false information is being used to harm the dairy industry.

 

For more information about Crohn's disease :

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/crohns/index.htm#caus

 

[theist]

LOL Guruvani you are so funny in your fanaticism sometimes. Prabhupada's prescription was for self-sufficent, Krsna centered communities, where cow protection was REAL. Then offer and drink the milk.

 

Buying from the local store was only meant to be temporary.

 

Anyway do what you like. Every bottle of milk you buy commercially is supporting the veal industry directly. If that doesn't bother you then what can I say. Bon Appetit.

 

For myself drinking Western produced milk and then preaching cow protection is a contradiction.

 

People can make up their own minds, but for that the facts need to come out.

 

I have idea how it is done in India.

[theist]

That statement says they don't have enough proof about Crohn's, one way or the other.I could post links to sites that say the opposite. That gets nowhere.

 

That is not the deciding point. The male calves that are not going to be useful to the dairy industry are sold to be kept for several weeks in small crates and then buthered as calves for veal.

 

Small crates are prefered so the calves can't excerise by even walking around which would make there meat less tender.

 

Clearly this is demonic. What would Pariksit say?

[hare_krishna]

Isn't there biological milk in Amerika?

[theist]

 

this puss fetish you have learned from the anti-milk people is something you should keep to yourself instead of infecting around to innocent and naive young devotees.

 

 

It is true I don't want to drink pus. I don't consider my pus aversion to be a fetish though. It just seems like a reasonable choice to me. Of course, nothing is pure in kali-yug. That I admit, but I will try to minimize the nasty things that go into my body as I am able.

 

I think young devotees are more likely to get infected from the pus than from knowledge.

 

Gain knowledge then choose to act as you will.

 

[theist]

By biological milk do you mean milk from protected cows?

[hare_krishna]

Yes, milk from cows that are protected, have enough space to move and get biological food to eat.

[I_love_krishna_]

I went to my dad's village, even though it is kind of an old method, the milkmen sell their milk to the government and they pasteurize and sell it to the public.

 

Sometimes they don't pasteurize the milk , but the people boil the milk when they buy it... so that all the pathogens are dead.

 

The cows and Indian buffalos are kept free to roam and be happy.

 

They graze over the grazing areas and you see people taking care of them.

 

They are not hooked up to machines and they are certainly not killed after their milk days are over. Their calves are not taken away from them, their calves are allowed to drink their mother's milk.

 

If a cow or an Ox(male cow) comes in front of the house, it is given something to eat... whether it be fruits or grass or water.

 

Pigs are definitely not killed... even though they are ignored ... which is really disgusting.

 

The Oxens are used to plow the fields and for transport and they are fed very well for the job.

 

It is fine to enslave the cows and Oxens, but they shouldn't treat them so cruelly like they do here.

 

Please guruvani, Go to the website and if that does not make your heart cry then I really feel bad for those cows and for you.

 

Even pigs get hurt. How can they boil them alive like that.

How can they treat animals like they are inanimate objects?

This is alot worser than those Nazi Concentration camps.

To drink this milk is to support that treatment of the cows.

 

And they are not given meat (which is unnatural) in India, they are not given abnormal hormones that make them give 10 times more milk than usual.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[theist]

Well there are some farms that sell what they call "free range" meat and milk products. They let the cows walk around and treat them better, that is up until the day they butcher them.

 

Even these "free range" dairies sell the male calves for slaughter though. From their perspective why feed a male when it will never produce milk?

 

The only hope I see at present is for devotees to buy from devotees farms. Instead they seem to have settled in on buying milk from cow butchers. But some are making the effort and deserve support. It must be hard work in this society.

 

My point is that we must become mindful of our every act. To be aware as far as possible of the ramifications of our actions.

 

Devotees will say "I offer it so it is karma free." OK, if Krsna accepts it I'm sure that's true. But the cows still suffer.

 

But if after all this time and with the knowledge of how it effects the cows I question if Krsna really is pleased by this type of offering. Just a question.

 

But with knowledge comes responsibility. You now know that buying commercial milk supports the slaughter and ill treatment of calves and other cows.

 

 

Will Krsna not accept almond milk or something understanding our situation?

 

 

Investigate the issue further and then act according to your highest Krsna Conscious conception.

[theist]

I went to India once and saw what you saw. If the whole country is still like that I don't know.

 

It was nice. You could just buy some spinach from a vendor and feed a calve walking by. You could scratch the calves necks and feed them. They like that alot. Really wonderful for a city boy from the West like me.

 

Here is where I have come down on this. I but no dairy and accept no dairy for health and cow protection reasons. The only exception is if I am offered a maha-sweetball or something I will never say no. We have to be careful not to make offenses while sticking to our principles.

 

And further we shouldn't make a lot of waves at the temples about this. It's not a forbidden subject but we have to be careful not to disturb the Temple atmosphere at the same time.

 

Hare Krsna

 

 

[stonehearted]

Do you mean organically produced milk? Yes, the US has producers of organically grown milk. We checked out one large company, Horizon dairy. They treat their cows well, let them graze in fields, don't inject them with hormones, feed them organically grown feeds, and process the milk in a way that ensures its quality. However, I have not been able to confirm that they don't sell bull calves to be raised for veal or that they don't sell old, dried-up cows for slaughter. We often bought Horzon milk products for a while in California, until our devotee friends started welling us milk from their completely protected zebu cows.

 

There are in many places devotees and others who raise dairy cows well and never sell them for slaughter. Here on the Big Island we have a couple of folks like that, some devotees and some not. You may find some in your area. I strongly suggest supporting such dairy farmers rather than what one godbrother calls the blood-milk industry. At the same time, I don't criticize devotees who buy milk products, especially where good milk products aren't readily available or is too expensive (it is!), since I also buy commercial butter and occasionally have to buy organic yogurt to keep my culture fresh (or when we just run out before i can make more).

[Krsnanatha]

I have heard it proposed in similar converations that the cows currently in these milk producing farms are by their doomed positions likely cow killers from a previous life serving out the sentence for being a cow killer. Assuming some if not most of those souls are serving out karmic sentences which will stretch far beyond just one life as a cow isn't it theoretically better to take the milk offer it to Krsna and benefit those souls karmically?

Couldn't that be a means to be an agent of mercy for such souls? Doesn't the offering of such a cows milk to the Lord and His devotees radically alter that soul's karma according to Sastric notions on the subject?

Aside from that if store-bought milk was good enough for Srila Prabhupada and the Dieties He installed I cannot see the need for rejecting. I am sure Srila Prabhupada was most aware of the circumstances from which the milk at the Western stores came.

I have no Karma for farming otherwise I would try to make a proper cow farm. But the second someone does I will be the first to pay ten...twenty bucks a gallon (or whatever it would take) to support it.

[I_love_krishna_]

but without seeing that ourselves we cannot be sure of it.

 

 

[theist]

Krishnanatha:

I have heard it proposed in similar converations that the cows currently in these milk producing farms are by their doomed positions likely cow killers from a previous life serving out the sentence for being a cow killer. Assuming some if not most of those souls are serving out karmic sentences which will stretch far beyond just one life as a cow isn't it theoretically better to take the milk offer it to Krsna and benefit those souls karmically?

 

 

Well I assume everyone in the material world is in their present positions due to past karma. What about offering almond milk and benefiting the almond trees that provided the almonds? I am not persuaded by this arguement myself.

 

I think it is setting a bad example when all the facts are weighed. In any case it sure weakens the effort to preach to others on the basis of cow protection.

 

 

I am sure Srila Prabhupada was most aware of the circumstances from which the milk at the Western stores came.

 

 

I am not so sure he was aware of the extent of it or all the details. But I can't say one way or the other.

 

Will I be punished for not drinking milk? I have been called a demon many times for adhering to a vegan diet. Also a traitor. Immature people mostly but also not too long ago from someone high up on the Iskcon ladder. Kinda silly really but a small thing.

[theist]

Does anyone know exactly what finer tissues are benefited by milk drinking? And since dairy products are consumed on a vast scale world wide as the world slips into hell, just how these finer tissues are supposed to benefit us to the point we are willing to kill cows to get their milk if need be? I mean why aren't all the demons being made pious by milk consumption?

[I_love_krishna_]

Mostly women but men too, have a risk of developing arthritis...

 

The risk of arthiritis is decreased by the consumption of calcium products.. and milk is the best giver of calcium.

 

Milk not only affects the bones, but also affects all sorts of areas.

 

Milk is also said to be the perfect drink because it gives the body all sorts of nutrients needed... for it to be very fit.

 

If you want the detailed description of what milk can do to your body... I will give it to you.

 

 

 

[theist]

I am interested in these finer tissues of the brain. What are they? Where are they located? What exactly is it in milk that nourishes these tissues? And most importantly if they can be identified can they also be found elsewhere so that Western cows needn't suffer so devotees can consume them.

[I_love_krishna_]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif I love brain research and brainy things.

 

Anyway, here is an article on the importance of calcium and magnesium and vitamins such as vitamin D in the development of Myelin .

 

Milk= best source of calcium.

---------------------------

Multiple sclerosis: Decreased relapse rate through dietary supplementation with calcium, magnesium and vitamin D

Goldberg P, Fleming MC, Picard EH

Med. Hypotheses (UK), 1986, 21/2 (193-200)

 

A group of young patients having multiple sclerosis was treated with dietary supplements containing calcium, magnesium and vitamin D for a period of one to two years. The experimental design employed self-pairing: the response of each patient was compared with his/her own case history as control. The number of exacerbations observed during the program was less than one half the number expected from case histories. No side effects were apparent. The dietary regimen may offer a new means of controlling the exacerbation rate in MS, at least for younger patients. The results tend to support a theory of MS which states that calcium and magnesium are important in the development, structure and stability of myelin.

---------------------------

Sorry, I couldn't get the whole article for you... but this is a good summary.

 

Even though they have researched this on patients inflicted with Multiple Scelerosis, they have found that calcium along with Magnesium is very important for the development of Myelin.

 

You may ask what the heck is MYelin? I only asked for the brain tissues...

 

Well , Myelin is the sheath that every Neuron's axon (brain cell=neuron) is made up with along with swchann cells.

 

Although the basic structures of the cells in the body are the same with in, due to their function they are very different, for example, like red blood cells have no nucleus and the white blood cells have many nuclei etc etc.

 

The same way, Brain cells are also unique in their structure.

 

 

The brain cells contain hairlike structures called dendrites on the top, the axon in the middle and the synaptic channels in the bottom. SEE THE ATTACHMENT PLEASE

 

The axon is made up of myelin and scwahhan (spelling may nnot be accurate) cells.

 

These cells are designed this way because they have to carry out information in the most effective way.

 

In these basic units of the brain (neurons ofcourse) use ion differences to create an electric environment to carry out their functions such as encoding messages, retreiving the previously stored information... etc.

 

It is a little complex to understand but if you want more info on that I will give it to you.

 

The neuron receives the message from the dendrites and then the message is carried out through its long axon and it is sent through the synaptic channels into another neuron's dendrites using many neurotransmitters called dopamine etc.

 

Well, the point is... with out the axon functioning well, you would be in big trouble.....kind of like a zombie. /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

Anyway, calcium makes sure that the myelin cells are strong and functioning well.

 

So, MILK RULES... but not when the people are killing animals to get it. /images/graemlins/frown.gif