Guest guest Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Lust, anger, greed, and passion are internal enemies. However, these could be used for Krishna’s work by Krishna devotees. Lust: the asuras in India produce produce children with four wives without any restriction. The children go to madresas and learn terrorism, and produce more terrorists. Such explosion of asuric population is dangerous for any democracy in the world. Therefore, Krishna devotees and the Vedic people of India need to use lust for Krishna. Produce many children and train them to become Kshatriyas who would keep the Vedic land for the Vedic people only. Support Kshatriyas. Anger: the current asuras in India are the decedents of the Hindus who once were forcibly converted to Islam, the ideology that produces terrorists and invaders. Just because others are non Muslims, they are angry at them and want to convert or kill them. Therefore, Krishna devotees and the Vedic people of India need to get angry at them and show them how barbaric their culture is. Persuade them using shama, daama, danda, or bheda to give up Islam in India. India is not for Islam. Invader ideology cannot be tolerated. Greed: the asuras of India want more and more land and lives to control over simply because the land and lives belong to the non Muslims. Therefore, the Krishna devotees and the Vedic people need to get greedy and take back the land that is given to them and the freedom of religion we gave to them (mistakenly thinking that they will appreciate it and live peacefully.) Passion: the asuric people of India are passionate about bombing trains of devotees, Vedic temples and yatris. Therefore the Krishna devotees and the Vedic people need to get passionate about exposing Islam’s barbaric nature and history and reconvert these barbarians back to Aryan culture. If these is not done, then there will not be any Vedic person or culture in India, the home of the Vedic culture. Jai Sri Krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 I've asked this question a couple of times before, and you continue to dodge it. What about the asuras who call themselves Hindu (which makes them sanatan-dharmis, by your standard)? I'm thinking of the bride-burners, those who abort their daughters, those who eat meat (even beef!) and drink because it's "modern" or "Western." Until you address this, express your anger about this adharma among your own, no one will take you seriously. Your gutless, anonymous posts will be seen as nothing more than sectarian rantings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 <<What about the asuras who call themselves Hindu (which makes them sanatan-dharmis, by your standard)? I'm thinking of the bride-burners, those who abort their daughters, those who eat meat (even beef!) and drink because it's "modern" or "Western.">> yes i am sad and angry about such things. however, suce events are not a norm in bharat just as murders in US are not norm. any one one who does anything like it is not a Hindu, or more specifically that acts are not hindu-like. these acts do not define hinduism. gita defines hinduism. now such persons still may choose to identify themselves as hindus. so then what it means? it means in my mind that such person implies that yes he may have committed adharma or commits regularly, but when he gets serious about aatma kalyan, he would follow right path /actions of hinduism. note that still these adharmi hindus would not force hinduism on others like muslims do. much of their lives would most likely be like vedic life. so i have said that there are problems external as well as internal. if an invder in your house want you to follow islam and wants to take away the title of your house or use your wife, then it is not right to says, "first let me stop my wife and sons from doing any adharma. when i become successful in dong so, only thenafter i will fight with the invader." this logic is simply foolish. similalry, when islam has invaded in the vedic land, the priority is to fight the external enemy first, while keep on fighting for internal causes as secondary thing. if you do not do it, the external invader adharmis will take away what ever you have ( land, property, freedom to chant and dance, temples, wife, daughters...) jai sri krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 jsk, I am curious about something. Say your neighbor is a known Muslim. He goes about his life peacefully bowing and praying five times a day, reading Koran etc. No connection at all to terrorists. How would such a person fit in to your vision of Indian life? Should he be kicked out of India because his theology and sadhana differ from yours? I would stop all animal slaughter, Muslim or not, but that's an aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 i do not like what you are saying... if it is hinduism, i am not hindu... the religion where i was born (catholicism) is guilty to have made too many persecutions, crusades and so on... i do not want to join anything like that even if there's a label put on with krsna depicted (instead of a cross) sarva dharma........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Hare Krishna Maybe the Guest is trying to say: Many Muslims in India are against Hinduism, so better to kick them out! But I say are there not Muslims being converted to 'Hinduism', so I think that makes Muslims angry, so as usual they 'show' their anger, NOT all though. India is the capital of religion or Bharat as it should be called, needs its culture kept alive, and these few Muslim fanatics are really spoiling everything. But then again we do live in Kaliyug. <font color="blue">O </font color> <font color="green"> Mind </font color> <font color="red"> Just </font color> <font color="orange">Worship </font color> <font color="black"> Krsna </font color> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 <<I am curious about something. Say your neighbor is a known Muslim. He goes about his life peacefully bowing and praying five times a day, reading Koran etc. No connection at all to terrorists.>> koran teaches terrorism. ben ladin is not acting against koran, else he would have been killed by some muslim long time ago. gita and koran are incompatible, 180 degree apart. india is vedic land, not islamic land. so he has in correctly chosen an ideology that is not willing to acept karfirs (hindus). if he is not doing violence today he or his children will do other times, or he and his generation will support terrorism and anti hindu activity in future. how long a cobra or his offsprings living in your home will give you peace? considering this, he must be persuaded to quit islam or else go to pakistan which specially made for them. that (creating pak) is a lot sacrifice the hindus made for the musilms. invaders have no rights. invader ideology has no place on vedic land. the above facts should be understood. in a zoo no one would keep tigers and deers in same cage. when tigers kept eating deers no none cared. when deers attached a few tigers, the deers were condemed for violence. and the land of deers was not for tigers. tigers invaded there. so who shold quit deer land? is is right to say to hindus, "your duty is to be silently killed or converted by these aggresors. never think of fighting them. it is sin to fight aggresors." it is insane to live with agggresor ideologies who have invaded your own country. now why the above is difficult to understand? jai sri krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 <<i do not like what you are saying... if it is hinduism, i am not hindu...>> hinduism is sanatan dharma or varnasrama dharma with four varnas, not just one. krishna is god for hindus. if you are a krishna devotees, you are a hindu. krishna in gita clearly says arjun to fight. and arjun did fight. what is so difficult for a krishna devotee to understand this? compare hinduism to a garden with many different beautiful flower plants. then one person steals away one plant from it and says this is not hinduism. another does the same with another stolen plant, and still another does same. is this a good way to treat hinduism? prabhupada has said that we need to accept vedas in whole, we cannot take one part and reject another. he saaud, one cannto say, "I like the rear of the hen because it give eggs, and will cut off head because it alwasy askes for food." jai sri krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 <<Many Muslims in India are against Hinduism, so better to kick them out!>> islam in principle is against any non islamic religion. so, rather than saying kill islam from the earth, i am nice to them and saying - keep islam out of india. <<But I say are there not Muslims being converted to 'Hinduism', so I think that makes Muslims angry, so as usual they 'show' their anger, NOT all though.>> sorry i could not undertand what you said above. are you saying no one hindu tries to convert muslims in india and therefore they are angry at hindus? my point is that the hindus should try hard to help them give up islam of send them out of india. to tolerate them is suicidal. suicide is adhrma. jai sri krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 " krishna in gita clearly says arjun to fight" he followed his spiritual master my spiritual master and srila prabhupada say to me to chant hare krsna and abandone any material and sectarian concept in spirituality and religion if you have this attitude to fight against criminals (muslim, hindu, white, black, italian , indian....) there's nothing bad, go in police or army..... brahmanas or aspiring brahmanas will continue to peacefully chant and and spread harekrsna mantra everyone has his dharma... arjuna is not a sannyasi.......... a gaudya vaishnava is not to be forced to became a ksatrya (the problem is criminals, not hindu criminals or muslim criminals...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 <<everyone has his dharma... arjuna is not a sannyasi.......... a gaudya vaishnava is not to be forced to became a ksatrya >> yes, but vaishnava could be any varna. one varn adoes not have to condemn other varna. if brahmana or sanyasi cannot encourage people to fght adhamis and asuras, then wo will guide them, shudras? if brahmanas cannot identify who is enemy to vaishnavism or hinduism, then who will? it is reconrde history that muslims have killed sadhus and sanyasis and true brahmanas in india. i can understand that a sanyasi willnot hve interest to figh physically, but will he throw away his duty to encourage teh kshatriyas to fight adharma? teh other important point/fact is that terrorism is world wide and is of such a magnitude that no government alone can fight it. therefore it becomes duty of each person to fight agggresors in any possible way. to not do so, is not serving to preserve vedic culture or the freedom one has to chant. <<(the problem is criminals, not hindu criminals or muslim criminals...) >> to the vedic people criminals are those who are aatataaysi as define by prabhupada, and aatataayis must be killed, says scripture. to the muslims (per koran) any mon muslims is a criminal because he does not accept allah (koran, saria, hadith) and what ever he possessses is allah's property (includign home, land, wife, etc.) and this possession is illegal till he accepts islam. now, which ideology you would support? you already have supported hinduism unknowingly because vaishnavism is a part of hinduism. besides if you say, you are not hindu or muslim or ., then that does not solve the problem of terrorism and the production of terrorists in systematic way that is going on. it is a serious threat in principle and practice to vaishnavism and any non muslim all over the world. so, what practical solution you propose for it? some people do not have guts to tell a criminal that he/she is a criminal. this does not buy security from the criminal, however. perhaps they think it does, no. to tell about criminal/barbaric ideology that it is good is encouraging criminal ideology. it is adharma. jai sri krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 if brahmana or sanyasi cannot encourage people to fght adhamis and asuras (as a policeman or a soldier fight single asuras who are criminals, not the nations or religions they belong to) if brahmanas cannot identify who is enemy to vaishnavism (the enemy of vaishnavism is our false ego, the identification with a land or a "religion" is false ego) it becomes duty of each person to fight (ksatrya... only ksatrya fight) and aatataayis must be killed, (kindly kill me... i am a big sinner, born mleccha, ex meat eater..) now, which ideology you would support? (no ideology... i am trying to support harinama samkirtana) so, what practical solution you propose for it? (i propose to increase hare krsna chanting, in this way everything will be more pure and efficient, also governments, police, armies and so on... also there will be no poverty so the poor people of palestine, afghanistan, pakistan and so on will be less subject to be cheated by fanatical leaders like bin laden or so) a vaishnava (brahmana, ksatrya, vaisha, shudra, brahmacharia, grihasta, vanaprasta, sannyasa) judge and relationate on personal basis.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 In my view you are absolutely right, but to do the right thing is not enough, we need to do the right thing in the right way! We do need to battle these asuras , but battling asuras isn't taking a sword or a gun and stabbing and killing the asura, there are more ways of fighting these people. Taking a sword and stabbing and killing "Radicals" will only make their hate and anger grow. So, if we physically kill them, the asuras will die, but their Demoniasm will stay for the next generation to follow. Killing them cannot stop the asurism, it will just continue on to the next generation, then the kshatriyas will battle again and again... and again... and ...(goes on to infinity) and the "Asuras" will again and again and again rise... Then you may ask how do we battle these asuras? In my view, we battle them with disobedience. First the Indian government should stop spoon feeding the minority muslim people in India... To do that ... we need people to control the democracy, If the majority votes to one "party" that helps the middle class , then we could stop the spoon feeding. The problem in India is this: the Majority never acts as a unit and fights with in itself and the minority - "Muslims" vote as one unit. So, the politicians try to please the muslims because they get a chunk - 20% of the votes if they help them. If the muslims revolt violently then people should not react violently but use the Gandhi methods. Take their pain, their anger and their frustration. Take everything they have got for you and through that pain , you should show that you will not fail! you will not give up for our rights and you will not surrender except surrender to the supreme will! Then, I am sure that they will feel something... which would probably be compassion and respect. Their hate for you will decrease and respect for you will definitely increase and finally! they will give up. Because, they may break your body's bones... they will not break the soul... and the will that you with hold with in you. So, That is the message I got from the philosophy of the vedas. If the so called "Ksatriyas" can put down their swords and take the invincible armor of disobedience and will power ... then these asuras will easily fall. In my view, humility, compassion and truth is what "We" "Hindus" need. ------------------------ For more information on "non-violence", please refer to a book called "My experiments with the truth" by Mohandas Karamchandr Gandhi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 << If the so called "Ksatriyas" can put down their swords >> that is not the message of krishna in git for kshatriyas. when arjun dropped his gandiva, krishna said, pick it up and fight. if you love krishna, you would accept his words too, i assume. << and take the invincible armor of disobedience and will power ... then these asuras will easily fall. >> when a stranger barbarian invades our house, the first duty is to throw him out. the barbarisns do not respect non violence behaviour. they have their goal and it is easy form the to meet theri goal with the non violents. << In my view, humility, compassion and truth is what "We" "Hindus" need. >> we exhibited it beyond its reasonable ness for hundred of years,a nd we ar in a mess now. we need to listen ot krishna now. your post shows that you have understodd the problem we have by the invader ideology in bharat. thansk for it. teh non violent strugge of gandhi worked with the brits, it seemed, but brits left only because of army mutny. gandhi would not have won against hitler, and he did not win over the muslims whom he favored. he preached to the quire. hindus already are non violent culturally, and muslims are not. gandhi never made a comment on teh barbaric message of koran, he probably never read koran. hindus alwasy prefer non violent means first. it is no so for the muslims. jai sri krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Yes, Krishna did tell arjuna to pick up the gandiva... but if you are neither arjuna , nor is krishna giving you the directions. The fact is, arjuna did pick up the gandiva to destroy the evil empire of Duryodhana. We here are not trying to destroy an evil empire... but an evil race! there is a big difference. You want to destroy the evil in the race in this case, not the race all together!. If you try to destroy the race.. which is not possible, their hate will always increase and anger will too increase. The muslims all over the world will attack and you will have more destruction.... hate and misery! on both sides... Still the evil will stay because the "evil" lies in their ideas and behaviors. Ideas and Behaviors are very contagious and are never destroyed by material weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 are you a ksatrya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 << Yes, Krishna did tell arjuna to pick up the gandiva... but if you are neither arjuna , nor is krishna giving you the directions. >> if he above arguement is considered valid, than gita is useless for any person. The fact is contrary. gita is for every one. it has guided millions of people for thousands of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 please see my guna and karnma on the forum and make your own opinion. any one can have qualities of kshatriya, and one may or may not be a hired professional kshatriya. when terrorosm is all around, it is dharma to evoke khsatriy aspirit becaue no gov. can provide full security against terrorism. then one has to fight his/her own battle. batteles can be fought violently or non violently as one could. jai sri krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 << You want to destroy the evil in the race in this case, not the race all together!. >> the most sensible way for the hindus is to destroy the evil (islam) in the muslims of india who are not a different race than the hindus. if these muslims' hindu ancestors a few hundred years ago were forcibley converted to teh barbaric islam ideology, then these muslims can be re-converted to hinduism forcibly or sent out to pakistan if they do not understand that bharat is not for islam. bharat is for the hindus and other religions that are not hostile to hinduism. no hindu a racist. jai sri krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Dude... the fact is ahimsa works. If you try to destroy their anger for the hindus then do it with out bloodshed from your side. Or you will be the bad guy and the bad guy will be recognized as the good guy. That was the main point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 what you are saying is the opposite of the meaning of bhagavad gita.. everyone has his dharma.. his duty .. his own path to go back to godhead so the duty of arjuna is different from my duty, your dharma is different from my dharma the designation of brahmana, ksatrya, vaisya, sudra is traditionally given by a master, an authority also ksatryas obeys to brahmanas , who are superior by class and are expert in judging yama and nyama (right and wrong) 1)are you a ksatrya? wich authority has made you like that? 2)wich brahmana gave you the task to make this war? 3)why you want that everyone of us act as ksatryas even if we are not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 "please see my guna and karnma on the forum and make your own opinion." my opinion is that for now you are only talking...... "becaue no gov. can provide full security against terrorism" this is another kind of terrorism, you claim to be superior to democracy and government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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