The disciple with anarthas is never taught the science of rasa-tattva

[Guest guest]

 

In reference to the publishing and mass distribution of "Krsna" books; this book distibution is a wonderful distibution of mercy to the people of the world. The Krsna Books beautifully and tastefully present a vision of the divine pastimes of the Lord. The Personal aspect of the Lord is shown to be more beautiful, powerful etc. than the impersonal aspect of God.

 

But in those Krsna Books, Srila Prabhupada didn't delve deeply into the astakaliya lila or present an extensive commentary on Krishna's pastimes with the Gopis, because, to quote Srila Prabhupada:

 

A nondevotee should not even discuss His stealing sweet rice for His devotees. It is warned that one should not even think about these things. Although Krsna is the purest of the pure, mundane people, thinking of Krsna's pastimes that appear immoral, themselves become polluted.

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore never publicly discussed Krsna's dealings with the gopis. He used to discuss these dealings only with three confidential friends. He never discussed rasa-lila publicly, as professional reciters do, although they do not understand Krsna or the nature of the audience. However, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu encouraged the public chanting of the holy name on a huge scale for as many hours as possible.

 

- Srila A. C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, (Sri Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya 4.134)

 

In Sri Chaitanya Charitamrta, Antya-lila, the more confidential aspects of the divine pastimes are discussed, and it is a fact that Srila Prabhupada also widely distributed these books.

 

But then again, as in the well known case of the "Gopi Bhava Club" which Srila Prabhupada crushed with his words, Srila Prabhupada always took the view that neophytes should not meditate on the divine pastimes of Sri Krishna with the Gopis.

 

In the Srimad Bhagavatam it is said that,

 

"Anyone who faithfully hears or describes the divine pastimes enjoyed by Sri Krsna with the gopis of Vrndavana will very quickly obtain pure bhakti, thereby conquering the heart disease of lust."

 

-- There is a very beautiful explanation of this verse in the Bhagavatam commentary of Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. Some people think that they will first become free from all offences and anarthas, become pure by their own efforts, and then engage in bhajana, but that is absurd. First concentrate the mind and make the heart pure, then do bhajana, and then bhakti will come? It will never be like this. You can try to concentrate the mind for millions of lives, but there is no guarantee that it will remain focused. Even the senses of big, big sages like Visvamitra and Saubhari became disturbed, so therefore in millions of lives it will not be possible to control the mind by one's own personal endeavour. You will just be kept waiting for millions of lives. It is like thinking that you will wait until the water of a river dries up before you cross it. Whatever condition you are now in - if you are a thief, a dacoit, a hooligan, or if you are pure - start performing krsna-bhajana and chanting harinama, and automatically bhakti will take care of the rest...

 

Here Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura is saying, "My friends, practice sadhana like this. Don't pray in this way all of the time: "O Krsna, I am a big thief, a big hooligan....' Just become deeply absorbed in His pastimes."

 

 

But in Prakrta-rasa-sata-dusani,

 

Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupad says:

anartha na gele sisya jata rati bole na

anartha visita sisye rasa tattva bole na

"The disciple is never said to have developed deep devotional attachment (rati) as long as impediments (anarthas) are not removed. The disciple who is still contaminated with these impediments is never taught the science of intimate devotional mellows (rasa-tattva).

 

While Srila Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj also said:

 

Nirjjana-bhajan or smarana, exclusive solitary Devotion unconscious of the environment, is not at all possible for the beginners. Prabhupad Srila Saraswati Thakur clearly said that when we are in a lower position, smarana is injurious.

[Guest guest]

Follow for SP (spiritual master) it is secret all rasa. With out follow acarya all anartha dance in joy.

[Guest guest]

Commentary SP it is real way for raganuga. Rasa dance in real time. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

When krsna-rati, or in other words, the sthAyibhAva

(the permanent emotion of the heart in one of the five primary relationships of SAnta, dAsya, sakhya, vatsaya, madhurya)

becomes exceedingly tasty for the devotee

by virtue of the elements known as

vibhAva, anubhAva, sAttvika-bhAva and vyabhicAri-bhAva,

induced through the medium of his bhajana,

it is called bhakti-rasa .

 

In other words, when the sthAyibhAva or krsna-rati

mixes with vibhAva, anubhAva, sAttvika-bhAva and vyabhicAri-bhAva

and becomes fit to be tasted in the heart of the devotee,

it is called bhakti-rasa.

 

Components of Bhakti rasa

 

Vibhava

- Alambana (that in which rati is tasted)

- Uddîpana (that which stimulates rati)

 

Alambana

-Vishaya alambana (the object of rati—Krsna)

- Asraya alambana (the reservoir of rati—the devotee)

 

AnubhAva

Visible actions which illustrate the spiritual emotions situated within the heart (dancing, singing, and so on).

 

sAttvika-bhAva

Eight symptoms of spiritual ecstacy arising

exclusively from viSuddha-sattva or in other words, when the

heart is overwhelmed by emotions in connection with mukhya-

rati or gauNa-rati.

 

vyabhicAri-bhAva

Thirty-three internal spiritual emotions which emerge from

the nectarine ocean of sthAyibhAva, cause it to swell, and

then merge back into that ocean.

 

Source: the book of difinitions

[Guest guest]

When krsna-rati, sthAyibhAva SAnta, dAsya, sakhya, vatsaya, madhurya) becomes exceedingly tasty for the devotee

by virtue of the elements known as

vibhAva, anubhAva, sAttvika-bhAva and vyabhicAri-bhAva,

induced through the medium of his bhajana,

it is called bhakti-rasa .

 

In other words, when the sthAyibhAva or krsna-rati

mixes with vibhAva, anubhAva, sAttvika-bhAva and vyabhicAri-bhAva

and becomes fit to be tasted in the heart of the devotee,

it is called bhakti-rasa.

 

Components of Bhakti rasa

 

Vibhava

- Alambana (that in which rati is tasted)

- Uddîpana (that which stimulates rati)

 

Alambana

-Vishaya alambana (the object of rati—Krsna)

- Asraya alambana (the reservoir of rati—the devotee)

 

AnubhAva

Visible actions which illustrate the spiritual emotions situated within the heart (dancing, singing, and so on).

 

sAttvika-bhAva

Eight symptoms of spiritual ecstacy arising

exclusively from viSuddha-sattva or in other words, when the

heart is overwhelmed by emotions in connection with mukhya-

rati or gauNa-rati.

 

vyabhicAri-bhAva

Thirty-three internal spiritual emotions which emerge from

the nectarine ocean of sthAyibhAva, cause it to swell, and

then merge back into that ocean.

 

Source: the book of difinitions

 

----------------

 

Gyana maya. It is possible to juggle so by terms entire life.

[Guest guest]

 

The disciple with anarthas is never taught the science of rasa-tattva.

 

 

To understand rasa lila one should first understand rasa tattva.

 

Jaiva Dharma

Chapter Thirty-one

Madhura-rasa-vicara

 

 

"However, in the spiritual world the madhura rasa is the most pure of all the rasas. It is filled with purity, splendour and wonderful sweetness. In the spiritual world when Krsna, the supreme male (purush), meets with His potencies, who are all female, Their activities are supremely pure. Their activities are the root of spiritual reality.

 

However, the perverted reflection of those activities in the material world is degraded and a source of embarrassment

Because they are opposed to fundamental tattva.

 

In tattva, one jiva is not the enjoyer of another jiva.

 

The truth is that Krsna is the only enjoyer, and all the jivas are to be enjoyed by Him. The situation in which the jiva becomes the enjoyer is against his eternal dharma. In this way the material madhura rasa contradicts the original spiritual reality.

 

By reading such explanation the mind become purified and attracted to that realm of supreme purity.

 

 

the neophyte

[Guest guest]

 

The disciple with anarthas is never taught the science of rasa-tattva

 

 

Jaiva Dharma

Chapter Thirty-one

Madhura-rasa-vicara

 

"However, in the spiritual world the madhura rasa is the most pure of all the rasas. It is filled with purity, splendour and wonderful sweetness. In the spiritual world when Krsna, the supreme male (purush), meets with His potencies, who are all female, Their activities are supremely pure. Their activities are the root of spiritual reality.

 

However, the perverted reflection of those activities in the material world is degraded and a source of embarrassment

Because they are opposed to fundamental tattva.

 

In tattva, one jiva is not the enjoyer of another jiva.

 

The truth is that Krsna is the only enjoyer, and all the jivas are to be enjoyed by Him. The situation in which the jiva becomes the enjoyer is against his eternal dharma. In this way the material madhura rasa contradicts the original spiritual reality.

 

By repeatedly sdudying rasa tattva under the guidance of Sri guru, one becomes attracted to that supremely pure realm and gradually forgets of all the attractions in this world of a lesser quality.

 

Srila Rupa Gosvami says that if one will read about the intimate rasa lila of the rasa raja, by the reaction of one's body one can redily detect if one is qualified for it or not.

 

the neophyte

[Guest guest]

anadi? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Rasikaih - saha Sri bhagavatArthAsvadaH

 

This is the sixty first anga of bhakti.

 

Tasting the meaning of Srimad Bhagavatam

in the association of rasika vaiSnavas.

 

Bhakti rasa does not arise by hearing or reciting Srimad Bhagavatam in the association of unqualified devotees.

 

In the association of persons who are estranged from bhakti rasa, there can be no tasting of Srimad Bhagavatam, rather there can be only apa-radha.

 

One can get some taste of bhakti rasa, acording his qualification, when Srimad Bhagavatam is spoken by the pure devotee, who is thouroughly versed in understanding rasa and is possesed of deep yearning to taste the rasa of kRSNA-lila.

 

the desire of the neophyte is that soon we shall be blessed with such association

[theist]

Good point. That is why we take shelter of Prabhupada's commentary and don't try to understand the SB simply on the mental platform.

 

Shastra is there-SB

 

Guru is there-SP translations and purports

 

Caitya-guru is there

 

And not to be neglected are more advanced sadhus to give us even more help.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

 

by Mahamantra das

 

"All the devotees connected with the Krishna consciousness movement must read all the books that have been translated (the Caitanya-caritamrta, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-Gita and others); otherwise, after some time, they will simply eat, sleep and fall down from their position. Thus they will miss the opportunity to attain an eternal, blissful life of transcendental pleasure." Srila Prabhupada's purport, Madhya 25.279

 

Haribol Prabhus. Jaya Prabhupada.

 

I've been reading since the dissappearance day festival of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada, a book in rough form consisting of mainly interviews Bhakti Vikash Swami made with Jyotishekhara Prabhu (disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta-now left the planet some few years ago, recently).

 

In this long interview, there are some interesting passages about Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's views on which books to read and how much of each one should read. It makes for nice reading. I hope you like it.

 

ys Mahamantra das

 

here goes..

 

The last time Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada left Puri, shortly before his disappearance, after following the kartika vows there, he was leaving in his car from the Math, when one disciple of his came and said, "What shall I do now that you are leaving." Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada said, "Hear the Bhagavat daily in the Math." That was his advice.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada read both Caitanya Caritamrta and Caitanya Bhagavata 108 times and told others to do likewise, expecting everyone to do that. Of course, it's doubtful if anyone did, but the idea was meant to read again and again and absorb the mind in Gauranga. Just as Mahaprabhu liked to hear the stories of Dhruva and Prahlada Maharaja. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada said to read Caitanya Bhagavata first then Caitanya Caritamrta, and then S.B. The reason being that C.B is very easy reading for Bengali people because it has no difficult philosophy and is mostly lila. Caitanya Caritamrta is also very attractive with some very difficult sections also. In the Srimad Bhagavatam the language is difficult Sanskrit.

 

(In a similar vein-Just like Srila Prabhupada recommended our ISKCON devotees to read Krsna book).

 

Once, when Jyotisekhara was new in the Math, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada asked him if he was reading Caitanya Bhagavata, when he said "No" he told him he should read it early in the morning, before mangal arati, at 5.00am * (Footnote: Jyotisekhara said it would be difficult for him to read so early, because he had a bad cough). "Starting from tomorrow, you read from 4.00am -5.00am. Read it clearly and loudly and it will clear any cough in your throat." Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada said the Caitanya Bhagavata and Caitanya Caritamrta, even though in Bengali verse, are full of all sastric conclusions, and he recommended them, along with Srimad Bhagavatam especially the sections on Dhruva Maharaja, Prahlada-charitra, the story of Prahlada, and Kapiladeva's instructions). He recommended all of these to be read 100 times.

 

(For the simple Bengali public) He did not recommend reading the gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, but Caitanya Bhagavata, except learned scholars, whom he would recommend to read the gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. For the ordinary Bengali he recommended Caitanya Bhagavata and Krsna Prema Tarangani, a Bengali verse edition of Srimad Bhagavatam by Bhagavatacarya, a disciple of Lord Caitanya.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada said that there were four books that every Gaudiya Vaishnava should read: Chaitanya Bhagavat, by Vrndavan Das Thakur, Dasa mula siksa, by Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Sri Krsna Bhajanamrta, by Narahari Sarkara and Prema Bhakti Chandrika, by Narottama Das Thakur.

 

He said that Chaitanya Bhagavat should be read 100 times. Gaudiya Vaishnava scholars generally consider Chaitanya-Charitamrta to be the most important biography of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, even more so than Chaitanya Bhagavat, in as much as it deals with: (a) the philosophy of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in great detail and (b) the highest ecstacies of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, which areb refered to only somewhat in Chaitanya Bhagavat.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada himself would generally explain philosophy very deeply, but he said that Chaitanya Bhagavat is more important than Chaitanya-charitamrta for the common man because it is a lila-grantha. Without describing so much about philosophy, it describes the lila of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and is therefore easy for the common man to follow and understand the philosophy, even though Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada himself mostly explained philosophy, he said that philosophy is only for the greatly learned people, and for the common men Chaitanya Bhagavat is more important, so he said, "Read Chaitanya Bhagavat from time to time."

 

If anyone came to him he would ask them if they had read Chaitanya Bhagavat. He often asked people this, including non-devotees. He recommended that for ordinary people, the first Vaishnava literature they read be Chaitanya Bhagavat. This was of course, because he was preaching mostly in Bengal and Orissa, so this was Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada's special advice for them.

 

He recommended to everyone to first read Chaitanya Bhagavat, then Prema Bhakti Chandrika, then Srimad Bhagavatam. He recommended that Prema Bhakti Chandrika be translated and published and distributed in different languages of the world. He said that in Prema Bhakti Chandrika all of the siddhantas of the Goswamis were expressed.

 

He told the sannyasis and brahmacaris, "Don't keep many books with you. Don't have big big libraries: Just three books. Three or four books are sufficient."

 

(N.B. If you can read books in the original script, then even large books become less volumous, non-the-less it's better a few books studied with more concentration, then a big library studied less).

 

Once, in Dhaka, he told Sundarananda Vidyavinoda to give a series of lectures on the Gita in colleges. Although generally he would have people go to the Bhagavatam or Vaishnava literatures immediately.

 

Of course the Gita is also a Vaishnava literature that is considered to be for beginners. Those books which deal exclusively with Bhakti which are not used by other schools as the Gita is; that means the Chaitanya Bhagavat, as we discussed, Prema Bhakti Chandrika, Srimad Bhagavatam. These books Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada recommended people to go to directly.

 

However, we should always remember that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada was preaching in Orissa and Bengal, where most of the people who came to him already had some background, or at least some understanding of Vaishnava philosophy. His understanding was that the Gita was for the people in varnasrama; karmis, jnanis, yogis; then they may come to Bhakti. But in the case of the people amongst whom he was preaching, he wanted them to take directly to Bhakti (don't get hung-up).

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada was so strict that Jyotisekhara recalled that in the time of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada in the Gaudiya Math they had never seen the Rasa-grantha. That means that the books dealing with the intimate rasa pastimes of Radha and Krsna, such as Gita-Govinda, Govinda-lila-amrta, etc. His rule was not to read rasa-grantha. Even in the Chaitanya-charitamrta there are some sections which describe the feelings of rasa that Radharani is expressing for Krsna. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada said to his disciples, "Don't read this section. It's not for you. You are not at this stage!" Only one or two disciples who had been given Manjari svarup were allowed to read it, but not publicly, only privately to themselves.

 

Conversation, 24 January, 1977: "My guru maharaja Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada used to say that,

 

When our members become sahajiyas, they will be more dangerous.'"

 

Those who are outside and are sahajiyas, we know their position, they are not following any correct siddhanta or any proper acharya. So we know they are sahajiyas, and we avoid their association. But if someone, in the name of being a follower the proper acharya, if he's also a sahajiya, if our own men become sahajiyas, in the guise of being bona fide followers of a proper acharya, then they are more dangerous, because, in the name of doing the right thing, they will be misleading people into doing the wrong thing.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Shastra is there-SB

 

Guru is there-SP translations and purports

 

Caitya-guru is there

 

And not to be neglected are more advanced sadhus to give us even more help.

 

 

Oh, very nice commentary Theist prabhu.

 

Also nice article by "God"? Whatever.

I personally find the taken name as one flight over the cuckoos' nest. Sorry, baba, no offence.

 

a neophyte

[Guest guest]

"SP translations and purports" is book